To you very knowledgeable people. If i see something better in the F2F than the 2 tickets I received in the lottery can I purchase first (now have 4 tickets total) and then try and sell off my original two or do I have to unload original two before I can purchase two? Thank You
Spitballing here...because I wont be selling my tickets on F2F. But if i DID.....couldnt I find someone on the boards who wanted them....and then work with them to let them know WHEN I was listing them on F2F. We agree that we are going to do this at "3:35PM". Then I put up my tickets, and the person sees them immediately and buys them?
I wonder if there is a hold on when they get posted.
TM actually recommended this to someone i think. They said do it off hours though... so less people watching
What do you mean by off hours exactly? I just want to make sure I am understanding it all. Thx
Lets say I wanted to sell my tickets because I cant go. I could make a post saying For Sale: these 2 tickets.
And you responded, and we agreed. I could say, "ok I am going to post them on F2F at 4am. Then you would be on F2F at 4am and as soon as you see them, you grab them.
there is no guarantee you would def get them, and I wonder if bots would be able to get them....but if they did, they could still ONLY be sold on F2F anyway, right?
ANyway, off hours means when people are usually sleeping.
Off topic, but...I'm on A-List for AMC.. I bought 2 tickets to Star Wars a few months ago, one with my A-List, one $ one for my friend. She then got on A-List, and then AMC added a feature you could get tickets for your other A-List friends in the same transaction. So I wanted to return both tickets, get refunded $ for the one, and then get both again as part of our subscriptions
But I was paranoid somebody would grab that one ticket for the sold out show, in the 5 seconds I released it. I was also worried about bots, as silly as that sounds for movie tickets.
So I finally decided to do it, and did it at like 3 am, and it worked.
I am not sure if this site will release the tickets as fast as AMC did, but I am not sure if bots are setup to just randomly check for tickets on shows every 5 seconds, and am not even sure if bots would even work on this new TM F2F site.
I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won.
I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.
I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.
For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix.
If NY is not included on the face value exchange, then Pearl Jam is forcing their fans who want to sell on stub hub to recover cost to charge a 30% premium. If everyone else gets to recover cost, so should us all.
You’ve been corrected on this several times. You can sell anyway you like, why do you think you have to use stubhub? Sell it for the cost of face value including fees, idk what you’re talking about with 30% premium.
Why sell at Face if I can't use them? Then some scalper can just snag them and make the $$$$$$$$. I have friggin awesome seats for Denver(if what I saw was correct and no games are played) 2nd row center in BBB right behind pit. I also have MSG seats. If I can't make it and there is no F2F in NY or CO, I guess it is open market sale for me or I could sell to someone here and transfer privately once paid through PayPal or something. I think with no F2F and the transfer laws in these 2 states, my tix are considered mine and will show up in my standard TM account not my PJ/TM account. Feedback other than "sell them to me..."?
I won't lie, I'd be tempted if I bought them directly from TM and I see the same tickets selling for 5-10 times what the face is. But if you are talking about 10c tickets, you agreed to only sell at face value and risk losing your membership if you dont. And I feel differently about fan club tickets than I do TM tickets. As someone already said if you dont want them to go to a scalper then sell them on here.
Read my posts...Never once said I wasn't going. Never once said I was potentially going solo, If I was, the single transfer is obviously the way to go. I said if I were selling both, my options are to sell privately to a fan from these boards at face or publicly with profit. Being a Philly guy now in NY and a PJ fan since day 1, and the big TM boycott that didn't even play the NE except sparingly to avoid TM venues, I get it. Never said I was going to sell to the highest bidder. Said why post publically at cost? I gotta say I have been switching back and forth between the Impeachment hearings and reading these discussions. Both leave me baffled.
Well with about 100 posts an hour its east to not scroll back pages and see how the conversation started. I apologize that is what I assumed based on the last response and thank you for clarifying. But if you're really just worried about breaking even you will not have a hard time selling a ticket here, facebook, craigslist, or any other number of places that don't have fees.
Mace1229...Thanks for getting that I plan on private sale here or somehow to a fan not public sale at cost where a scalper could snag and profitize. Mattcoz....SMH...guess I know who I wouldn't sell them to.
What am I missing? You said one of your options was to sell for profit. That is against the membership agreement.
To you very knowledgeable people. If i see something better in the F2F than the 2 tickets I received in the lottery can I purchase first (now have 4 tickets total) and then try and sell off my original two or do I have to unload original two before I can purchase two? Thank You
Fans buying on the F2F site won't have their 10club info linked. Just like they weren't for the normal onsales.
To you very knowledgeable people. If i see something better in the F2F than the 2 tickets I received in the lottery can I purchase first (now have 4 tickets total) and then try and sell off my original two or do I have to unload original two before I can purchase two? Thank You
Nobody knows the details of how the exchanges are going to work. Even if you called Ticketmaster and asked them a question like this, I wouldn't trust the response to be accurate.
To you very knowledgeable people. If i see something better in the F2F than the 2 tickets I received in the lottery can I purchase first (now have 4 tickets total) and then try and sell off my original two or do I have to unload original two before I can purchase two? Thank You
I don't see why not. They just care about transferring for face value...not how many tickets you have that you might not be able to use.
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I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won.
I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.
I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.
For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix.
If NY is not included on the face value exchange, then Pearl Jam is forcing their fans who want to sell on stub hub to recover cost to charge a 30% premium. If everyone else gets to recover cost, so should us all.
You’ve been corrected on this several times. You can sell anyway you like, why do you think you have to use stubhub? Sell it for the cost of face value including fees, idk what you’re talking about with 30% premium.
Then you shouldn't pretend you are correcting me.
A few facts to help- Many have said TM has told fans the face value exchange is off limits to NY due to the laws there.
If a fan wants to recover the approximate $125 investment on their ticket, and the FV exchange is unavailable, their likeliest and most accessible option is to sell on stub hub.
To recover the $125 cost, you need to sell on SH for $167.
This would be against 10c policy and can result in the cancellation of membership.
I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won.
I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.
I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.
For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix.
If NY is not included on the face value exchange, then Pearl Jam is forcing their fans who want to sell on stub hub to recover cost to charge a 30% premium. If everyone else gets to recover cost, so should us all.
You’ve been corrected on this several times. You can sell anyway you like, why do you think you have to use stubhub? Sell it for the cost of face value including fees, idk what you’re talking about with 30% premium.
Then you shouldn't pretend you are correcting me.
A few facts to help- Many have said TM has told fans the face value exchange is off limits to NY due to the laws there.
If a fan wants to recover the approximate $125 investment on their ticket, and the FV exchange is unavailable, their likeliest and most accessible option is to sell on stub hub.
To recover the $125 cost, you need to sell on SH for $167.
This would be against 10c policy and can result in the cancellation of membership.
I don't know what the official stance is, but I would hope they would make an exception in this case, since it's not for profit. Still, nobody is forcing you to use Stubhub.
I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won.
I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.
I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.
For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix.
If NY is not included on the face value exchange, then Pearl Jam is forcing their fans who want to sell on stub hub to recover cost to charge a 30% premium. If everyone else gets to recover cost, so should us all.
You’ve been corrected on this several times. You can sell anyway you like, why do you think you have to use stubhub? Sell it for the cost of face value including fees, idk what you’re talking about with 30% premium.
Why sell at Face if I can't use them? Then some scalper can just snag them and make the $$$$$$$$. I have friggin awesome seats for Denver(if what I saw was correct and no games are played) 2nd row center in BBB right behind pit. I also have MSG seats. If I can't make it and there is no F2F in NY or CO, I guess it is open market sale for me or I could sell to someone here and transfer privately once paid through PayPal or something. I think with no F2F and the transfer laws in these 2 states, my tix are considered mine and will show up in my standard TM account not my PJ/TM account. Feedback other than "sell them to me..."?
I won't lie, I'd be tempted if I bought them directly from TM and I see the same tickets selling for 5-10 times what the face is. But if you are talking about 10c tickets, you agreed to only sell at face value and risk losing your membership if you dont. And I feel differently about fan club tickets than I do TM tickets. As someone already said if you dont want them to go to a scalper then sell them on here.
Read my posts...Never once said I wasn't going. Never once said I was potentially going solo, If I was, the single transfer is obviously the way to go. I said if I were selling both, my options are to sell privately to a fan from these boards at face or publicly with profit. Being a Philly guy now in NY and a PJ fan since day 1, and the big TM boycott that didn't even play the NE except sparingly to avoid TM venues, I get it. Never said I was going to sell to the highest bidder. Said why post publically at cost? I gotta say I have been switching back and forth between the Impeachment hearings and reading these discussions. Both leave me baffled.
Well with about 100 posts an hour its east to not scroll back pages and see how the conversation started. I apologize that is what I assumed based on the last response and thank you for clarifying. But if you're really just worried about breaking even you will not have a hard time selling a ticket here, facebook, craigslist, or any other number of places that don't have fees.
Mace1229...Thanks for getting that I plan on private sale here or somehow to a fan not public sale at cost where a scalper could snag and profitize. Mattcoz....SMH...guess I know who I wouldn't sell them to.
What am I missing? You said one of your options was to sell for profit. That is against the membership agreement.
Operative word is "options". You read is as that was my intent because apparently you aren't good at reading comprehension. If you read AND comprehend what I wrote you would see I said that I wouldn't sell publicly at cost therefore ensuring a scalper to be wouldn't grab them. If I called you a name on this board that would be grounds for revocation of my Ten Club Membership just as profitizing on 10C seats would be so I will refrain. From both.
A few facts to help- Many have said TM has told fans the face value exchange is off limits to NY due to the laws there.
If a fan wants to recover the approximate $125 investment on their ticket, and the FV exchange is unavailable, their likeliest and most accessible option is to sell on stub hub.
To recover the $125 cost, you need to sell on SH for $167.
This would be against 10c policy and can result in the cancellation of membership.
I don't know what the official stance is, but I would hope they would make an exception in this case, since it's not for profit. Still, nobody is forcing you to use Stubhub.
I think the case of NYC and Denver its a tough one. Its tough to police, it's tough to fairly enforce and its tough to expect people sell tickets at a loss in these places if f2f isn't available. What happens if someone in good faith sells their tickets on stubhub in one of those markets for that $167 to just cover their costs and the person they sell to turns around and relists them at a huge mark up? You've upheld your obligation to the 10C. Technically, those tickets are assigned to you though and they are out in the market place at higher than face, even though you've sold them at your cost, does 10C come back to you and revoke your privileges?
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I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr.
is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?
It's a new thing for me as well. I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.
I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right.
My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.
Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.
Just, why?
that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice
I am a watch collector, and this same phenomenon takes place where certain models are so desirable and hard to find that secondary market prices exceed the MSRP.....and in some cases by a LOT. There are a bunch of examples that go for more USED than they do brand new because you can't even find them new at a dealer.
What happens is that eventually authorized dealers start getting infuriated that they are selling a watch for $8k that is being resold on the secondary market for $10k and begin to leak a few here or there to 3rd parties that sell them at market price and kickback of the % of the profits back to them. They call it the 'grey market' and it has become so prevalent that it's just considered part of the whole industry at this point.
People that want a certain piece that are sick of being put on a wait list for something they are never gonna actually get their hands on just eventually say 'Fuck it' and pay the extra to just get it already from a grey market dealer.
My point is that imposing harsh regulations on prices and resell-ability on people in a traditionally free market capitalist society is always going to have side effects, and as much as it may prevent people from charging top dollar it is also going to prevent people that are more than willing to pay extra and understand 100% that they are doing so from being able to....and in many ways I am not OK with that.
It's not just as clean and simple as 'Suck it scalpers!'....
Post edited by Saltzy23 on
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A few facts to help- Many have said TM has told fans the face value exchange is off limits to NY due to the laws there.
If a fan wants to recover the approximate $125 investment on their ticket, and the FV exchange is unavailable, their likeliest and most accessible option is to sell on stub hub.
To recover the $125 cost, you need to sell on SH for $167.
This would be against 10c policy and can result in the cancellation of membership.
I don't know what the official stance is, but I would hope they would make an exception in this case, since it's not for profit. Still, nobody is forcing you to use Stubhub.
I think the case of NYC and Denver its a tough one. Its tough to police, it's tough to fairly enforce and its tough to expect people sell tickets at a loss in these places if f2f isn't available. What happens if someone in good faith sells their tickets on stubhub in one of those markets for that $167 to just cover their costs and the person they sell to turns around and relists them at a huge mark up? You've upheld your obligation to the 10C. Technically, those tickets are assigned to you though and they are out in the market place at higher than face, even though you've sold them at your cost, does 10C come back to you and revoke your privileges?
Thanks Clapper...you get my thought process. I intend to use both my MSG and CO tix. Can drive to NYC and have accommodations set(refundable if cancelled before 3/12) for Denver(420!). But, with no F2F, I can't go public sale at cost if something comes up( I am a chef and restaurant owner so shi* happens) for fear of scalpers therefore best option would be private sale at cost to someone in the club. My original post, which has become convoluted at this point, was.... what are my best options to be an upstanding member if god forbid I cannot use the tix and no F2F. If I cannot use either set, I would reach out to 10C if no F2F and ask what remedy I could seek and remain in code without public at cost listing. I guess we will see once the F2F details are released.
A few facts to help- Many have said TM has told fans the face value exchange is off limits to NY due to the laws there.
If a fan wants to recover the approximate $125 investment on their ticket, and the FV exchange is unavailable, their likeliest and most accessible option is to sell on stub hub.
To recover the $125 cost, you need to sell on SH for $167.
This would be against 10c policy and can result in the cancellation of membership.
I don't know what the official stance is, but I would hope they would make an exception in this case, since it's not for profit. Still, nobody is forcing you to use Stubhub.
I think the case of NYC and Denver its a tough one. Its tough to police, it's tough to fairly enforce and its tough to expect people sell tickets at a loss in these places if f2f isn't available. What happens if someone in good faith sells their tickets on stubhub in one of those markets for that $167 to just cover their costs and the person they sell to turns around and relists them at a huge mark up? You've upheld your obligation to the 10C. Technically, those tickets are assigned to you though and they are out in the market place at higher than face, even though you've sold them at your cost, does 10C come back to you and revoke your privileges?
I was thinking the same thing. If a fan can't make it to MSG, resells the tickets for face, then the other person scalps them, would ten club cancel the tickets and the membership? It would screw the original member for being fair and selling for face, and it would screw whoever bought the tickets who then can't get into the show. The middleman might lose their profit but nothing else.
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Thanks Clapper...you get my thought process. I intend to use both my MSG and CO tix. Can drive to NYC and have accommodations set(refundable if cancelled before 3/12) for Denver(420!). But, with no F2F, I can't go public sale at cost if something comes up( I am a chef and restaurant owner so shi* happens) for fear of scalpers therefore best option would be private sale at cost to someone...
Dude... what in the HELL possessed you to create a 46 line signature?! That's brutal.
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Thanks Clapper...you get my thought process. I intend to use both my MSG and CO tix. Can drive to NYC and have accommodations set(refundable if cancelled before 3/12) for Denver(420!). But, with no F2F, I can't go public sale at cost if something comes up( I am a chef and restaurant owner so shi* happens) for fear of scalpers therefore best option would be private sale at cost to someone...
Dude... what in the HELL possessed you to create a 46 line signature?! That's brutal.
thank god I’m on mobile.
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I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr.
is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?
It's a new thing for me as well. I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.
I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right.
My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.
Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.
Just, why?
that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice
I am a watch collector, and this same phenomenon takes place where certain models are so desirable and hard to find that secondary market prices exceed the MSRP.....and in some cases by a LOT. There are a bunch of examples that go for more USED that they do brand new because you can't even find them new at a dealer.
What happens is that eventually authorized dealers start getting infuriated that they are selling a watch for $8k that is being resold on the secondary market for $10k and begin to leak a few here or there to 3rd parties that sell them at market price and kickback of the % of the profits back to them. They call it the 'grey market' and it has become so prevalent that it's just considered part of the whole industry at this point.
People that want a certain piece that are sick of being put on a wait list for something they are never gonna actually get their hands on just eventually say 'Fuck it' and pay the extra to just get it already from a grey market dealer.
My point is that imposing harsh regulations on prices and resell-ability on people in a traditionally free market capitalist society is always going to have side effects, and as much as it may prevent people from charging top dollar it is also going to prevent people that are more than willing to pay extra and understand 100% that they are doing so from being able to....and in many ways I am not OK with that.
It's not just as clean and simple as 'Suck it scalpers!'....
I dunno - maybe it just is that clean and simple? It sounds like you're not necessarily a fan of the gray market in timepieces. If you could somehow devise a system that allowed more watches to get into the hands of collectors at MSRP, wouldn't you be in favor of that?
I was thinking the same thing. If a fan can't make it to MSG, resells the tickets for face, then the other person scalps them, would ten club cancel the tickets and the membership? It would screw the original member for being fair and selling for face, and it would screw whoever bought the tickets who then can't get into the show. The middleman might lose their profit but nothing else.
Right? That's the tough part. Not that 10C is necessarily required to go out of their way to be fair on something like this but it seems like a possible pitfall of ticket re-sale options in these states and not a particularly reasonable ask of people to try and police what the secondary holder of those tickets does with them.
1993 - Toronto 1996 - Toronto 1998 - Barrie 2000 - Toronto 2003 - Buffalo, Toronto 2005 - Hamilton, Toronto 2006 - Toronto I, Toronto II 2008 - EV solo Toronto I 2010 - Buffalo, Newark 2011 - Toronto I, Toronto II, Hamilton 2013 - London, Chicago, Buffalo, Brooklyn I, Brooklyn II, Philadelphia I, Philadelphia II 2014 - Detroit 2016 - Philadelphia I, Philadelphia II, New York I, New York II, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II, Chicago I, Chicago II 2018 - Boston I, Boston II
Thanks Clapper...you get my thought process. I intend to use both my MSG and CO tix. Can drive to NYC and have accommodations set(refundable if cancelled before 3/12) for Denver(420!). But, with no F2F, I can't go public sale at cost if something comes up( I am a chef and restaurant owner so shi* happens) for fear of scalpers therefore best option would be private sale at cost to someone...
Dude... what in the HELL possessed you to create a 46 line signature?! That's brutal.
I don't know how to make a concise one like I see others have....where in my profile can I do that and sorry, I see where that could be annoying...will remove...
If you're trying to sell your NY or CO tickets, and no F2F materializes, wouldn't you just find someone on here, get the face value $ on paypal, then send them a photo of the bar code? If they in turn scalp it and 10c comes after you, then you just say, "10c, I sold it to member _________."
I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr.
is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?
It's a new thing for me as well. I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.
I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right.
My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.
Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.
Just, why?
that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice
I am a watch collector, and this same phenomenon takes place where certain models are so desirable and hard to find that secondary market prices exceed the MSRP.....and in some cases by a LOT. There are a bunch of examples that go for more USED that they do brand new because you can't even find them new at a dealer.
What happens is that eventually authorized dealers start getting infuriated that they are selling a watch for $8k that is being resold on the secondary market for $10k and begin to leak a few here or there to 3rd parties that sell them at market price and kickback of the % of the profits back to them. They call it the 'grey market' and it has become so prevalent that it's just considered part of the whole industry at this point.
People that want a certain piece that are sick of being put on a wait list for something they are never gonna actually get their hands on just eventually say 'Fuck it' and pay the extra to just get it already from a grey market dealer.
My point is that imposing harsh regulations on prices and resell-ability on people in a traditionally free market capitalist society is always going to have side effects, and as much as it may prevent people from charging top dollar it is also going to prevent people that are more than willing to pay extra and understand 100% that they are doing so from being able to....and in many ways I am not OK with that.
It's not just as clean and simple as 'Suck it scalpers!'....
I dunno - maybe it just is that clean and simple? It sounds like you're not necessarily a fan of the gray market in timepieces. If you could somehow devise a system that allowed more watches to get into the hands of collectors at MSRP, wouldn't you be in favor of that?
In this analogy, that would equate to PJ playing more shows, thus adding more supply to the supply/demand curve and resulting in lower prices.
For watches, it would mean more pieces being produced and sold, which would result in prices falling and people's collections dropping in value, which could be seen as good or bad depending on who you are and how much you have sunk into your collection.
For PJ, I think it would result in diluting how rare and special these shows are. Personally, I love that fact that 'collecting PJ concerts', certainly in large metropolitan areas where everyone wants to go and getting in is not an easy task adds to the magic that is being a fan of this band.
Again, I certainly understand that many people will disagree with this opinion.
It's a highly subjective debate.
Post edited by Saltzy23 on
'I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine.'
Jeebuz. How many pages have we gone through for a "What if" scenario? My brain hurts.
2011: Vancouver 2013: LA 1 & LA 2, Vancouver 2018: Seattle 1 & Seattle 2 2022: LA 1 & LA 2 2024: Vancouver 1 & Vancouver 2, Portland, Seattle 1 & Seattle 2
I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr.
is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?
It's a new thing for me as well. I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.
I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right.
My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.
Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.
Just, why?
that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice
I am a watch collector, and this same phenomenon takes place where certain models are so desirable and hard to find that secondary market prices exceed the MSRP.....and in some cases by a LOT. There are a bunch of examples that go for more USED that they do brand new because you can't even find them new at a dealer.
What happens is that eventually authorized dealers start getting infuriated that they are selling a watch for $8k that is being resold on the secondary market for $10k and begin to leak a few here or there to 3rd parties that sell them at market price and kickback of the % of the profits back to them. They call it the 'grey market' and it has become so prevalent that it's just considered part of the whole industry at this point.
People that want a certain piece that are sick of being put on a wait list for something they are never gonna actually get their hands on just eventually say 'Fuck it' and pay the extra to just get it already from a grey market dealer.
My point is that imposing harsh regulations on prices and resell-ability on people in a traditionally free market capitalist society is always going to have side effects, and as much as it may prevent people from charging top dollar it is also going to prevent people that are more than willing to pay extra and understand 100% that they are doing so from being able to....and in many ways I am not OK with that.
It's not just as clean and simple as 'Suck it scalpers!'....
I dunno - maybe it just is that clean and simple? It sounds like you're not necessarily a fan of the gray market in timepieces. If you could somehow devise a system that allowed more watches to get into the hands of collectors at MSRP, wouldn't you be in favor of that?
In this analogy, that would equate to PJ playing more shows, thus adding more supply to the supply/demand curve and resulting in lower prices.
For watches, it would mean more pieces being produced and sold, which would result in prices falling and people's collections dropping in value, which could be seen as good or bad depending on who you are and how much you have sunk into your collection.
For PJ, I think it would result in diluting how rare and special these shows are. Personally, I love that fact that 'collecting PJ concerts', certainly in large metropolitan areas where everyone wants to go and getting in is not an easy task adds to the magic that is being a fan of this band.
Again, I certainly understand that many people will disagree with this opinion.
It's a highly subjective debate.
Yeah, I didn't mean to get specific about how it would work. I know that (short of increasing supply) there's no practical way to fix it in the watch world. But if you COULD magically fix it without affecting the desirability of the product, wouldn't you want to?
I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr.
is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?
It's a new thing for me as well. I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.
I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right.
My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.
Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.
Just, why?
that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice
I am a watch collector, and this same phenomenon takes place where certain models are so desirable and hard to find that secondary market prices exceed the MSRP.....and in some cases by a LOT. There are a bunch of examples that go for more USED that they do brand new because you can't even find them new at a dealer.
What happens is that eventually authorized dealers start getting infuriated that they are selling a watch for $8k that is being resold on the secondary market for $10k and begin to leak a few here or there to 3rd parties that sell them at market price and kickback of the % of the profits back to them. They call it the 'grey market' and it has become so prevalent that it's just considered part of the whole industry at this point.
People that want a certain piece that are sick of being put on a wait list for something they are never gonna actually get their hands on just eventually say 'Fuck it' and pay the extra to just get it already from a grey market dealer.
My point is that imposing harsh regulations on prices and resell-ability on people in a traditionally free market capitalist society is always going to have side effects, and as much as it may prevent people from charging top dollar it is also going to prevent people that are more than willing to pay extra and understand 100% that they are doing so from being able to....and in many ways I am not OK with that.
It's not just as clean and simple as 'Suck it scalpers!'....
I dunno - maybe it just is that clean and simple? It sounds like you're not necessarily a fan of the gray market in timepieces. If you could somehow devise a system that allowed more watches to get into the hands of collectors at MSRP, wouldn't you be in favor of that?
In this analogy, that would equate to PJ playing more shows, thus adding more supply to the supply/demand curve and resulting in lower prices.
For watches, it would mean more pieces being produced and sold, which would result in prices falling and people's collections dropping in value, which could be seen as good or bad depending on who you are and how much you have sunk into your collection.
For PJ, I think it would result in diluting how rare and special these shows are. Personally, I love that fact that 'collecting PJ concerts', certainly in large metropolitan areas where everyone wants to go and getting in is not an easy task adds to the magic that is being a fan of this band.
Again, I certainly understand that many people will disagree with this opinion.
It's a highly subjective debate.
Yeah, I didn't mean to get specific about how it would work. I know that (short of increasing supply) there's no practical way to fix it in the watch world. But if you COULD magically fix it without affecting the desirability of the product, wouldn't you want to?
Sure....I guess?
That's an impossible question to ask cause it's not logically possible.
It's like asking why we destroy tons and tons of food every year when people around the world are starving.
Sure, it would obviously be great to not destroy perfectly good food and give it all to the people that need it, but that would also completely crater market prices and run farmers out of business around the globe....and that's not really a great option either.
'I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine.'
I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr.
is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?
It's a new thing for me as well. I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.
I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right.
My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.
Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.
Just, why?
that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice
I am a watch collector, and this same phenomenon takes place where certain models are so desirable and hard to find that secondary market prices exceed the MSRP.....and in some cases by a LOT. There are a bunch of examples that go for more USED that they do brand new because you can't even find them new at a dealer.
What happens is that eventually authorized dealers start getting infuriated that they are selling a watch for $8k that is being resold on the secondary market for $10k and begin to leak a few here or there to 3rd parties that sell them at market price and kickback of the % of the profits back to them. They call it the 'grey market' and it has become so prevalent that it's just considered part of the whole industry at this point.
People that want a certain piece that are sick of being put on a wait list for something they are never gonna actually get their hands on just eventually say 'Fuck it' and pay the extra to just get it already from a grey market dealer.
My point is that imposing harsh regulations on prices and resell-ability on people in a traditionally free market capitalist society is always going to have side effects, and as much as it may prevent people from charging top dollar it is also going to prevent people that are more than willing to pay extra and understand 100% that they are doing so from being able to....and in many ways I am not OK with that.
It's not just as clean and simple as 'Suck it scalpers!'....
I dunno - maybe it just is that clean and simple? It sounds like you're not necessarily a fan of the gray market in timepieces. If you could somehow devise a system that allowed more watches to get into the hands of collectors at MSRP, wouldn't you be in favor of that?
In this analogy, that would equate to PJ playing more shows, thus adding more supply to the supply/demand curve and resulting in lower prices.
For watches, it would mean more pieces being produced and sold, which would result in prices falling and people's collections dropping in value, which could be seen as good or bad depending on who you are and how much you have sunk into your collection.
For PJ, I think it would result in diluting how rare and special these shows are. Personally, I love that fact that 'collecting PJ concerts', certainly in large metropolitan areas where everyone wants to go and getting in is not an easy task adds to the magic that is being a fan of this band.
Again, I certainly understand that many people will disagree with this opinion.
It's a highly subjective debate.
Yeah, I didn't mean to get specific about how it would work. I know that (short of increasing supply) there's no practical way to fix it in the watch world. But if you COULD magically fix it without affecting the desirability of the product, wouldn't you want to?
Sure....I guess?
That's an impossible question to ask cause it's not logically possible.
It's like asking why we destroy tons and tons of food every year when people around the world are starving.
Sure, it would obviously be great to not destroy perfectly good food and give it all to the people that need it, but that would also completely crater market prices and run farmers out of business around the globe....and that's not really a great option either.
OK, but it turns out that in the ticket market it is logically possible. There are downsides, especially for certain people (believe me I would like nothing more right now than to be able to drop a bundle on StubHub for a pair of Baltimore tickets and sleep better tonight), but it really does seem like the changes they made have led to more tickets ending up in the hands of fans instead of scalpers, and I think that's straightforwardly a good thing, just like it would be if you could snap your fingers and come up with a magical timepiece distribution model that cut out the resellers/gray market.
I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.
It's absurd.
The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.
There is literally no reason to keep waiting. Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.
I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.
The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won.
I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.
I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.
For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix.
If NY is not included on the face value exchange, then Pearl Jam is forcing their fans who want to sell on stub hub to recover cost to charge a 30% premium. If everyone else gets to recover cost, so should us all.
You’ve been corrected on this several times. You can sell anyway you like, why do you think you have to use stubhub? Sell it for the cost of face value including fees, idk what you’re talking about with 30% premium.
Why sell at Face if I can't use them? Then some scalper can just snag them and make the $$$$$$$$. I have friggin awesome seats for Denver(if what I saw was correct and no games are played) 2nd row center in BBB right behind pit. I also have MSG seats. If I can't make it and there is no F2F in NY or CO, I guess it is open market sale for me or I could sell to someone here and transfer privately once paid through PayPal or something. I think with no F2F and the transfer laws in these 2 states, my tix are considered mine and will show up in my standard TM account not my PJ/TM account. Feedback other than "sell them to me..."?
I won't lie, I'd be tempted if I bought them directly from TM and I see the same tickets selling for 5-10 times what the face is. But if you are talking about 10c tickets, you agreed to only sell at face value and risk losing your membership if you dont. And I feel differently about fan club tickets than I do TM tickets. As someone already said if you dont want them to go to a scalper then sell them on here.
Read my posts...Never once said I wasn't going. Never once said I was potentially going solo, If I was, the single transfer is obviously the way to go. I said if I were selling both, my options are to sell privately to a fan from these boards at face or publicly with profit. Being a Philly guy now in NY and a PJ fan since day 1, and the big TM boycott that didn't even play the NE except sparingly to avoid TM venues, I get it. Never said I was going to sell to the highest bidder. Said why post publically at cost? I gotta say I have been switching back and forth between the Impeachment hearings and reading these discussions. Both leave me baffled.
Well with about 100 posts an hour its east to not scroll back pages and see how the conversation started. I apologize that is what I assumed based on the last response and thank you for clarifying. But if you're really just worried about breaking even you will not have a hard time selling a ticket here, facebook, craigslist, or any other number of places that don't have fees.
Mace1229...Thanks for getting that I plan on private sale here or somehow to a fan not public sale at cost where a scalper could snag and profitize. Mattcoz....SMH...guess I know who I wouldn't sell them to.
What am I missing? You said one of your options was to sell for profit. That is against the membership agreement.
Operative word is "options". You read is as that was my intent because apparently you aren't good at reading comprehension. If you read AND comprehend what I wrote you would see I said that I wouldn't sell publicly at cost therefore ensuring a scalper to be wouldn't grab them. If I called you a name on this board that would be grounds for revocation of my Ten Club Membership just as profitizing on 10C seats would be so I will refrain. From both.
I was not reading anything into your intent, I was only answering your question. You asked "why post publically at cost?" and you provided the alternative option of "publicly with profit". So the reason to do so at cost is because doing so with profit is against the rules. If I misread something, it was an honest mistake. You could have just explained what you meant, yet you felt the need to attack me personally. I agree that selling privately is the best way, but selling for profit is simply not an option within the rules.
Comments
She then got on A-List, and then AMC added a feature you could get tickets for your other A-List friends in the same transaction.
So I wanted to return both tickets, get refunded $ for the one, and then get both again as part of our subscriptions
But I was paranoid somebody would grab that one ticket for the sold out show, in the 5 seconds I released it. I was also worried about bots, as silly as that sounds for movie tickets.
So I finally decided to do it, and did it at like 3 am, and it worked.
I am not sure if this site will release the tickets as fast as AMC did, but I am not sure if bots are setup to just randomly check for tickets on shows every 5 seconds, and am not even sure if bots would even work on this new TM F2F site.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Then you shouldn't pretend you are correcting me.
A few facts to help-
Many have said TM has told fans the face value exchange is off limits to NY due to the laws there.
If a fan wants to recover the approximate $125 investment on their ticket, and the FV exchange is unavailable, their likeliest and most accessible option is to sell on stub hub.
To recover the $125 cost, you need to sell on SH for $167.
This would be against 10c policy and can result in the cancellation of membership.
Isn't the likeliest place to sell a ticket to MSG, the hottest ticket on the tour, here? Or Facebook?
1996 - Toronto
1998 - Barrie
2000 - Toronto
2003 - Buffalo, Toronto
2005 - Hamilton, Toronto
2006 - Toronto I, Toronto II
2008 - EV solo Toronto I
2010 - Buffalo, Newark
2011 - Toronto I, Toronto II, Hamilton
2013 - London, Chicago, Buffalo, Brooklyn I, Brooklyn II, Philadelphia I, Philadelphia II
2014 - Detroit
2016 - Philadelphia I, Philadelphia II, New York I, New York II, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II, Chicago I, Chicago II
2018 - Boston I, Boston II
What happens is that eventually authorized dealers start getting infuriated that they are selling a watch for $8k that is being resold on the secondary market for $10k and begin to leak a few here or there to 3rd parties that sell them at market price and kickback of the % of the profits back to them. They call it the 'grey market' and it has become so prevalent that it's just considered part of the whole industry at this point.
People that want a certain piece that are sick of being put on a wait list for something they are never gonna actually get their hands on just eventually say 'Fuck it' and pay the extra to just get it already from a grey market dealer.
My point is that imposing harsh regulations on prices and resell-ability on people in a traditionally free market capitalist society is always going to have side effects, and as much as it may prevent people from charging top dollar it is also going to prevent people that are more than willing to pay extra and understand 100% that they are doing so from being able to....and in many ways I am not OK with that.
It's not just as clean and simple as 'Suck it scalpers!'....
Wrigley 2016 Night 1
Wrigley 2016 Night 2
MSG 2020
OKC 2020
Dude... what in the HELL possessed you to create a 46 line signature?! That's brutal.
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
1996 - Toronto
1998 - Barrie
2000 - Toronto
2003 - Buffalo, Toronto
2005 - Hamilton, Toronto
2006 - Toronto I, Toronto II
2008 - EV solo Toronto I
2010 - Buffalo, Newark
2011 - Toronto I, Toronto II, Hamilton
2013 - London, Chicago, Buffalo, Brooklyn I, Brooklyn II, Philadelphia I, Philadelphia II
2014 - Detroit
2016 - Philadelphia I, Philadelphia II, New York I, New York II, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II, Chicago I, Chicago II
2018 - Boston I, Boston II
For watches, it would mean more pieces being produced and sold, which would result in prices falling and people's collections dropping in value, which could be seen as good or bad depending on who you are and how much you have sunk into your collection.
For PJ, I think it would result in diluting how rare and special these shows are. Personally, I love that fact that 'collecting PJ concerts', certainly in large metropolitan areas where everyone wants to go and getting in is not an easy task adds to the magic that is being a fan of this band.
Again, I certainly understand that many people will disagree with this opinion.
It's a highly subjective debate.
you're the only one who can forgive yourself oh yeah...
makes much more sense to live in the present tense...
1995: 7/11 (Chicago) 2009: 8/23, 8/24 (Chicago) 2010: 5/9 (Cleveland) 2013 7/19 (Chicago) 2016: 4/9 (Miami), 5/1 (NYC), 8/20 & 8/22 (Chicago)
2018: 8/18 (Chicago) & 8/20 (Chicago) 2022: 9/11 (NYC), 9/18 (STL) 2023: 9/5 (Chicago), 9/7 (Chicago) 2024: 8/29 (Chicago), 8/31 (Chicago)
2013: LA 1 & LA 2, Vancouver
2018: Seattle 1 & Seattle 2
2022: LA 1 & LA 2
2024: Vancouver 1 & Vancouver 2, Portland, Seattle 1 & Seattle 2
Yeah, I didn't mean to get specific about how it would work. I know that (short of increasing supply) there's no practical way to fix it in the watch world. But if you COULD magically fix it without affecting the desirability of the product, wouldn't you want to?
That's an impossible question to ask cause it's not logically possible.
It's like asking why we destroy tons and tons of food every year when people around the world are starving.
Sure, it would obviously be great to not destroy perfectly good food and give it all to the people that need it, but that would also completely crater market prices and run farmers out of business around the globe....and that's not really a great option either.