All things Transgender related

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Comments

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    Welp, this has been an enlightening thread.

    It's really brought out the best in some folks!
    as enlightening as this post. 
    It appears you're still het up.

    I am not.

    Let's not do this yet again.
    het up? I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean. 

    I just get annoyed when people jump into a thread flapping their morally superior gums around. I would expect someone to hold my feet to the fire if I was to act this way as well. there's just zero need for this type of "observation". 
    "Flapping their morally superior gums around" - that's kind of a dickish thing to say.

    Why on earth you won't let go of this silliness and skewed view of my daring to post, I don't understand - but have at it.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,578
    edited January 2020
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

    to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

    we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 
    Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

    I have problems seeing the big deal here.

    I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
    your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

    But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 
    I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
    bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

    and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 
    I don't think 5 year olds bully like that. My son is 5 and deaf, he can't even really communicate with his peers. He is the perfect bully target and all the kids are fantastic with him.

    I think you aren't giving kids enough credit.
    you always love to cherry pick. it doesn't have to be 5 year olds. pick any age. 

    I give kids credit where it's due. most are awesome. some can be downright assholes. 
    Cherry pick? Give me a break.

    Your argument is weak as shit. I'm not even going to bother going into it. 
    haha, I saw kids repeatedly get bullied for their fucking haircut or a t shirt in school. yeah, my argument is "weak as shit". haha. 
    So what does it matter if someone has been raised gender neutral? If kids still get bullied for "their fucking haircut"

    Change don't come at once. It's a wave. Building.
    because you are increasing their chances of social failure, which negatively impacts their life in many other areas. all because of a statistical improbability. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,578
    my point is educate society on those that choose to live as they wish/need to live. don't start advocating that everyone live like that as a default. that's ludicrous. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

    to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

    we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 
    Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

    I have problems seeing the big deal here.

    I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
    your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

    But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 
    I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
    bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

    and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 
    I don't think 5 year olds bully like that. My son is 5 and deaf, he can't even really communicate with his peers. He is the perfect bully target and all the kids are fantastic with him.

    I think you aren't giving kids enough credit.
    you always love to cherry pick. it doesn't have to be 5 year olds. pick any age. 

    I give kids credit where it's due. most are awesome. some can be downright assholes. 
    Cherry pick? Give me a break.

    Your argument is weak as shit. I'm not even going to bother going into it. 
    haha, I saw kids repeatedly get bullied for their fucking haircut or a t shirt in school. yeah, my argument is "weak as shit". haha. 
    So what does it matter if someone has been raised gender neutral? If kids still get bullied for things like "their fucking haircut"

    Change don't come at once. It's a wave. Building.
    Isn't it a bit selfish to put your child on the front lines of that change, even when they haven't expressed the desire to be trans?  

    I get where Hugh is coming from.  I mean if a child decides at three that he is affirmatively a male, consistent with birth sex, then probably less harm.  But what if they are confused about it all really means and doesn't grasp the gravity of said decision and sits in the middle until they are in third grade?  That seems like a recipe for bullying, and I can assure you they will be bullied.  
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,578
    hedonist said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    Welp, this has been an enlightening thread.

    It's really brought out the best in some folks!
    as enlightening as this post. 
    It appears you're still het up.

    I am not.

    Let's not do this yet again.
    het up? I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean. 

    I just get annoyed when people jump into a thread flapping their morally superior gums around. I would expect someone to hold my feet to the fire if I was to act this way as well. there's just zero need for this type of "observation". 
    "Flapping their morally superior gums around" - that's kind of a dickish thing to say.

    Why on earth you won't let go of this silliness and skewed view of my daring to post, I don't understand - but have at it.
    let what go? this is the second time you've told me to let something go. you addressed a post to me, I responded. pretty sure that's allowed. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    edited January 2020
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

    to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

    we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 
    Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

    I have problems seeing the big deal here.

    I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
    your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

    But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 
    I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
    bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

    and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 
    I don't think 5 year olds bully like that. My son is 5 and deaf, he can't even really communicate with his peers. He is the perfect bully target and all the kids are fantastic with him.

    I think you aren't giving kids enough credit.
    you always love to cherry pick. it doesn't have to be 5 year olds. pick any age. 

    I give kids credit where it's due. most are awesome. some can be downright assholes. 
    Cherry pick? Give me a break.

    Your argument is weak as shit. I'm not even going to bother going into it. 
    haha, I saw kids repeatedly get bullied for their fucking haircut or a t shirt in school. yeah, my argument is "weak as shit". haha. 
    So what does it matter if someone has been raised gender neutral? If kids still get bullied for "their fucking haircut"

    Change don't come at once. It's a wave. Building.
    because you are increasing their chances of social failure, which negatively impacts their life in many other areas. all because of a statistical improbability. 
    You also do that while blasting Pearl Jam loudly when picking them up. "your dad is weird with the dicks are growing songs. Now give me your lunchmoney grungegirl"

    I doubt this would be that more of a factor in the world of five year olds. 

    BUT I don't see why having the default be a wait and see approach instead of just going with pronoun mostly connected to the penis or the vagina and roll with it whatever comes. 

    So whatevz. As long as people are not being assholes and listen to their kids it should be a-ok. 

    And don't circumcise them. And fucking realise why one shouldnt.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,578
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

    to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

    we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 
    Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

    I have problems seeing the big deal here.

    I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
    your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

    But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 
    I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
    bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

    and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 
    I don't think 5 year olds bully like that. My son is 5 and deaf, he can't even really communicate with his peers. He is the perfect bully target and all the kids are fantastic with him.

    I think you aren't giving kids enough credit.
    you always love to cherry pick. it doesn't have to be 5 year olds. pick any age. 

    I give kids credit where it's due. most are awesome. some can be downright assholes. 
    Cherry pick? Give me a break.

    Your argument is weak as shit. I'm not even going to bother going into it. 
    haha, I saw kids repeatedly get bullied for their fucking haircut or a t shirt in school. yeah, my argument is "weak as shit". haha. 
    So what does it matter if someone has been raised gender neutral? If kids still get bullied for "their fucking haircut"

    Change don't come at once. It's a wave. Building.
    because you are increasing their chances of social failure, which negatively impacts their life in many other areas. all because of a statistical improbability. 
    You also do that while blasting Pearl Jam loudly when picking them up. "your dad is weird with the dicks are growing songs. Now give me your lunchmoney grungegirl"

    I doubt this would be that more of a factor in the world of five year olds. 

    BUT I don't see why having the default be a wait and see approach instead of just going with pronoun mostly connected to the penis or the vagina and roll with it whatever comes. 

    So whatevz. As long as people are not being assholes and listen to their kids it should be a-ok. 
    again, forget the 5 year old thing. i mentioned that age in reference to an identity crisis. I was talking about bullying at any age. why subject your kids to that when it's statistically unnecessary?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    Welp, this has been an enlightening thread.

    It's really brought out the best in some folks!
    as enlightening as this post. 
    It appears you're still het up.

    I am not.

    Let's not do this yet again.
    het up? I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean. 

    I just get annoyed when people jump into a thread flapping their morally superior gums around. I would expect someone to hold my feet to the fire if I was to act this way as well. there's just zero need for this type of "observation". 
    "Flapping their morally superior gums around" - that's kind of a dickish thing to say.

    Why on earth you won't let go of this silliness and skewed view of my daring to post, I don't understand - but have at it.
    let what go? this is the second time you've told me to let something go. you addressed a post to me, I responded. pretty sure that's allowed. 
    Go back a couple or few pages to where it started.  If you can't figure it out, no big deal.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,578
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

    to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

    we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 
    Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

    I have problems seeing the big deal here.

    I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
    your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

    But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 
    I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
    bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

    and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 
    I don't think 5 year olds bully like that. My son is 5 and deaf, he can't even really communicate with his peers. He is the perfect bully target and all the kids are fantastic with him.

    I think you aren't giving kids enough credit.
    you always love to cherry pick. it doesn't have to be 5 year olds. pick any age. 

    I give kids credit where it's due. most are awesome. some can be downright assholes. 
    Cherry pick? Give me a break.

    Your argument is weak as shit. I'm not even going to bother going into it. 
    haha, I saw kids repeatedly get bullied for their fucking haircut or a t shirt in school. yeah, my argument is "weak as shit". haha. 
    So what does it matter if someone has been raised gender neutral? If kids still get bullied for "their fucking haircut"

    Change don't come at once. It's a wave. Building.
    because you are increasing their chances of social failure, which negatively impacts their life in many other areas. all because of a statistical improbability. 
    You also do that while blasting Pearl Jam loudly when picking them up. "your dad is weird with the dicks are growing songs. Now give me your lunchmoney grungegirl"

    I doubt this would be that more of a factor in the world of five year olds. 

    BUT I don't see why having the default be a wait and see approach instead of just going with pronoun mostly connected to the penis or the vagina and roll with it whatever comes. 

    So whatevz. As long as people are not being assholes and listen to their kids it should be a-ok. 

    And don't circumcise them. And fucking realise why one shouldnt.
    yes, because choosing your child to not have a gender is the same as making choices on music. jesus. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

    to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

    we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 
    Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

    I have problems seeing the big deal here.

    I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
    your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

    But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 
    I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
    bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

    and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 
    I don't think 5 year olds bully like that. My son is 5 and deaf, he can't even really communicate with his peers. He is the perfect bully target and all the kids are fantastic with him.

    I think you aren't giving kids enough credit.
    you always love to cherry pick. it doesn't have to be 5 year olds. pick any age. 

    I give kids credit where it's due. most are awesome. some can be downright assholes. 
    Cherry pick? Give me a break.

    Your argument is weak as shit. I'm not even going to bother going into it. 
    haha, I saw kids repeatedly get bullied for their fucking haircut or a t shirt in school. yeah, my argument is "weak as shit". haha. 
    So what does it matter if someone has been raised gender neutral? If kids still get bullied for "their fucking haircut"

    Change don't come at once. It's a wave. Building.
    because you are increasing their chances of social failure, which negatively impacts their life in many other areas. all because of a statistical improbability. 
    You also do that while blasting Pearl Jam loudly when picking them up. "your dad is weird with the dicks are growing songs. Now give me your lunchmoney grungegirl"

    I doubt this would be that more of a factor in the world of five year olds. 

    BUT I don't see why having the default be a wait and see approach instead of just going with pronoun mostly connected to the penis or the vagina and roll with it whatever comes. 

    So whatevz. As long as people are not being assholes and listen to their kids it should be a-ok. 
    again, forget the 5 year old thing. i mentioned that age in reference to an identity crisis. I was talking about bullying at any age. why subject your kids to that when it's statistically unnecessary?
    I agree. 

    I need to book my pearl jam flights and stuff now and do 3 hours of animating that I'm lagging behind with. I don't have time with you people.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,578
    hedonist said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    hedonist said:
    Welp, this has been an enlightening thread.

    It's really brought out the best in some folks!
    as enlightening as this post. 
    It appears you're still het up.

    I am not.

    Let's not do this yet again.
    het up? I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean. 

    I just get annoyed when people jump into a thread flapping their morally superior gums around. I would expect someone to hold my feet to the fire if I was to act this way as well. there's just zero need for this type of "observation". 
    "Flapping their morally superior gums around" - that's kind of a dickish thing to say.

    Why on earth you won't let go of this silliness and skewed view of my daring to post, I don't understand - but have at it.
    let what go? this is the second time you've told me to let something go. you addressed a post to me, I responded. pretty sure that's allowed. 
    Go back a couple or few pages to where it started.  If you can't figure it out, no big deal.
    this makes no sense. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

    to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

    we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 
    Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

    I have problems seeing the big deal here.

    I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
    your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

    But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 
    I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
    bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

    and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 
    I don't think 5 year olds bully like that. My son is 5 and deaf, he can't even really communicate with his peers. He is the perfect bully target and all the kids are fantastic with him.

    I think you aren't giving kids enough credit.
    you always love to cherry pick. it doesn't have to be 5 year olds. pick any age. 

    I give kids credit where it's due. most are awesome. some can be downright assholes. 
    Cherry pick? Give me a break.

    Your argument is weak as shit. I'm not even going to bother going into it. 
    haha, I saw kids repeatedly get bullied for their fucking haircut or a t shirt in school. yeah, my argument is "weak as shit". haha. 
    So what does it matter if someone has been raised gender neutral? If kids still get bullied for "their fucking haircut"

    Change don't come at once. It's a wave. Building.
    because you are increasing their chances of social failure, which negatively impacts their life in many other areas. all because of a statistical improbability. 
    You also do that while blasting Pearl Jam loudly when picking them up. "your dad is weird with the dicks are growing songs. Now give me your lunchmoney grungegirl"

    I doubt this would be that more of a factor in the world of five year olds. 

    BUT I don't see why having the default be a wait and see approach instead of just going with pronoun mostly connected to the penis or the vagina and roll with it whatever comes. 

    So whatevz. As long as people are not being assholes and listen to their kids it should be a-ok. 
    again, forget the 5 year old thing. i mentioned that age in reference to an identity crisis. I was talking about bullying at any age. why subject your kids to that when it's statistically unnecessary?
    As the person here who is raising a gender neutral child, can I suggest you go through this thread and read the things I’ve said about it, because you’re basically setting up a straw man here. 

  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    ecdanc said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dignin said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

    to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

    we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 
    Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

    I have problems seeing the big deal here.

    I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
    your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

    But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 
    I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
    bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

    and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 
    I don't think 5 year olds bully like that. My son is 5 and deaf, he can't even really communicate with his peers. He is the perfect bully target and all the kids are fantastic with him.

    I think you aren't giving kids enough credit.
    you always love to cherry pick. it doesn't have to be 5 year olds. pick any age. 

    I give kids credit where it's due. most are awesome. some can be downright assholes. 
    Cherry pick? Give me a break.

    Your argument is weak as shit. I'm not even going to bother going into it. 
    haha, I saw kids repeatedly get bullied for their fucking haircut or a t shirt in school. yeah, my argument is "weak as shit". haha. 
    So what does it matter if someone has been raised gender neutral? If kids still get bullied for "their fucking haircut"

    Change don't come at once. It's a wave. Building.
    because you are increasing their chances of social failure, which negatively impacts their life in many other areas. all because of a statistical improbability. 
    You also do that while blasting Pearl Jam loudly when picking them up. "your dad is weird with the dicks are growing songs. Now give me your lunchmoney grungegirl"

    I doubt this would be that more of a factor in the world of five year olds. 

    BUT I don't see why having the default be a wait and see approach instead of just going with pronoun mostly connected to the penis or the vagina and roll with it whatever comes. 

    So whatevz. As long as people are not being assholes and listen to their kids it should be a-ok. 
    again, forget the 5 year old thing. i mentioned that age in reference to an identity crisis. I was talking about bullying at any age. why subject your kids to that when it's statistically unnecessary?
    As the person here who is raising a gender neutral child, can I suggest you go through this thread and read the things I’ve said about it, because you’re basically setting up a straw man here. 

    Indeed. The point has been missed.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,578
    i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak". 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak". 
    So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old? 
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    ecdanc said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak". 
    So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old? 
    I remember you pointing that out. As a father of two boys, one who just turned 3 a few months ago, this sounds about right. Also lines up with all my family and friends experiences who have kids around a similar age.
  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    dignin said:
    ecdanc said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak". 
    So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old? 
    I remember you pointing that out. As a father of two boys, one who just turned 3 a few months ago, this sounds about right. Also lines up with all my family and friends experiences who have kids around a similar age.
    So most kids will be expressing their gender well before they encounter the roving gangs of cruel five-year-olds. 
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?
    We treat P as if they have no gender, because they don’t have one yet. 
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    ecdanc said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?
    We treat P as if they have no gender, because they don’t have one yet. 
    So what about the name? Giving them a historically gender neutral one to be safe? Or waiting until they pick a name themselves at 3?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"

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