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ecdanc said:
So most kids will be expressing their gender well before they encounter the roving gangs of cruel five-year-olds.dignin said:
I remember you pointing that out. As a father of two boys, one who just turned 3 a few months ago, this sounds about right. Also lines up with all my family and friends experiences who have kids around a similar age.ecdanc said:
So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old?HughFreakingDillon said:i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".
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Androgynous name.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So what about the name? Giving them a historically gender neutral one to be safe? Or waiting until they pick a name themselves at 3?ecdanc said:
We treat P as if they have no gender, because they don’t have one yet.Spiritual_Chaos said:But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?0 -
It's not really Pat, is it? Hugh made that joke, but there's no way that can be it.ecdanc said:
Androgynous name.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So what about the name? Giving them a historically gender neutral one to be safe? Or waiting until they pick a name themselves at 3?ecdanc said:
We treat P as if they have no gender, because they don’t have one yet.Spiritual_Chaos said:But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?
So if your method plays out over time, will the gender line between names be eliminated? That would be interesting. Would it also eliminate the tradition of names to honor a family member? As I mentioned earlier, my son is Nicholas, named after his grandfather. Would I name my daughter Nicholas? I guess maybe?0 -
This is funny.dignin said:ecdanc said:
So most kids will be expressing their gender well before they encounter the roving gangs of cruel five-year-olds.dignin said:
I remember you pointing that out. As a father of two boys, one who just turned 3 a few months ago, this sounds about right. Also lines up with all my family and friends experiences who have kids around a similar age.ecdanc said:
So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old?HughFreakingDillon said:i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".0 -
I think that's the idea. The name wouldn't matter at that point. I like the whole idea, and I'm glad people are acting on it to break down those barriers.mrussel1 said:
It's not really Pat, is it? Hugh made that joke, but there's no way that can be it.ecdanc said:
Androgynous name.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So what about the name? Giving them a historically gender neutral one to be safe? Or waiting until they pick a name themselves at 3?ecdanc said:
We treat P as if they have no gender, because they don’t have one yet.Spiritual_Chaos said:But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?
So if your method plays out over time, will the gender line between names be eliminated? That would be interesting. Would it also eliminate the tradition of names to honor a family member? As I mentioned earlier, my son is Nicholas, named after his grandfather. Would I name my daughter Nicholas? I guess maybe?0 -
I met a woman named Ronnie, said her dad wanted a boy and that was it on her birth certificate. I don't think the name matters much, nowadays people are using unusual names, Gage, Summer, I saw a girl on ForgedInFire her name was Weslie.
My cousins husband, in his mid 30's, decided to have a circumcision. He was doing a bicycling around Europe for a year and a half and risk of infection was too great for him to risk. his choice, maybe some do fine with it.
Anyone could argue pro's and con's of all the choices parents have to make for their kids. I think kids need a baseline and if doesn't work as they grow, then adjust it. The part I said about accepting our bodies was more general in the sense of height, weight, hair color, complexion, everything one person doesn't like about ourselves, we have to come to terms with it IF we cannot change it. Even if you raise a child neutral, they identify with female at the age of 3 and when she turns 14 she wants to transition. what's the difference.
In certain states a child can marry at the age of 14 if both parents give permission, I don't agree with that, but if the 14 yr old wants to, they will probably find a way, or maybe not. A mom who let her 16 yr old have breast implants, I don't feel the 16yr old gave her body enough time to develop and see what the end result is, and then if she wants them okay.Amy The Great #74594
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Missoula MT 20180 -
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.HughFreakingDillon said:
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.ecdanc said:
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.HughFreakingDillon said:
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.dignin said:
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?HughFreakingDillon said:
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...HughFreakingDillon said:to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.hippiemom = goodness0 -
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.cincybearcat said:
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.HughFreakingDillon said:
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.ecdanc said:
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.HughFreakingDillon said:
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.dignin said:
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?HughFreakingDillon said:
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...HughFreakingDillon said:to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
Cheers. I’m still in what I consider the front line...and the war is heating up.jeffbr said:
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.cincybearcat said:
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.HughFreakingDillon said:
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.ecdanc said:
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.HughFreakingDillon said:
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.dignin said:
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?HughFreakingDillon said:
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...HughFreakingDillon said:to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.hippiemom = goodness0 -
I ll be holding the line on multiple fronts next year: high school (11th grade), middle school (6th grade) and elementary school (1st grade).cincybearcat said:
Cheers. I’m still in what I consider the front line...and the war is heating up.jeffbr said:
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.cincybearcat said:
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.HughFreakingDillon said:
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.ecdanc said:
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.HughFreakingDillon said:
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.dignin said:
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?HughFreakingDillon said:
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...HughFreakingDillon said:to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.
cool thing is I ll be able to teach one of my kids next year. I taught my daughter and it was great.
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
21, 18, 11. I'm making good progress, and ready to wrap up this kid thing soon.cincybearcat said:
Cheers. I’m still in what I consider the front line...and the war is heating up.jeffbr said:
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.cincybearcat said:
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.HughFreakingDillon said:
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.ecdanc said:
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.HughFreakingDillon said:
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.dignin said:
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?HughFreakingDillon said:
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...HughFreakingDillon said:to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.0 -
You guys are old as shit.0
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Where the fuck did I claim to be an expert? People asked me about gender neutral parenting and I told them what I do. Y’all suck at reading.jeffbr said:
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.cincybearcat said:
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.HughFreakingDillon said:
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.ecdanc said:
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.HughFreakingDillon said:
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.dignin said:
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?HughFreakingDillon said:
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...HughFreakingDillon said:to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.0 -
Right. I forgot books aren’t really your jam.cincybearcat said:
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.HughFreakingDillon said:
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.ecdanc said:
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.HughFreakingDillon said:
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.dignin said:
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?HughFreakingDillon said:
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...HughFreakingDillon said:to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.0 -
Class of 91 for HS. So it was early college. I just remember Ten, Bloodsugar, Nevermind, Facelift were on full time, along with Mama Said. We were digging Lenny too.mcgruff10 said:0
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