All things Transgender related

mrussel1

brianlux said:

dignin said:

You guys are old as shit.

You saw Jimi.  That's a good tradeoff. 

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

You guys are old as shit.

You saw Jimi.  That's a good tradeoff. 

Ah, yes, true! 

mcgruff10

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

You guys are old as shit.

You saw Jimi.  That's a good tradeoff. 

I thought he was Jimi s godfather?

mrussel1

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

You guys are old as shit.

You saw Jimi.  That's a good tradeoff. 

I thought he was Jimi s godfather?

Nah,  he's ours around here.  The voice of reason,  moderation and moral clarity. 

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

You guys are old as shit.

You saw Jimi.  That's a good tradeoff. 

I thought he was Jimi s godfather?

Nah,  he's ours around here.  The voice of reason,  moderation and moral clarity. 

until you piss him off......

given my previous history I am very thankful to not have kids. wouldnt have been a pleasant upbringing.

but I do have 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousins that trust my opinions over others..... so in that way I am helping raise a couple generations....

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

You guys are old as shit.

You saw Jimi.  That's a good tradeoff. 

I thought he was Jimi s godfather?

Nah,  he's ours around here.  The voice of reason,  moderation and moral clarity. 

until you piss him off......

given my previous history I am very thankful to not have kids. wouldnt have been a pleasant upbringing.

but I do have 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousins that trust my opinions over others..... so in that way I am helping raise a couple generations....

Admittedly and much to my embarrassment, I will admit I have had a short fuse now and then.  The first step is admitting it, the second step is working on it- which I do.  But be assured of this- if I can get down to Oakland to meet some of you, I guarantee I will not do the following:

-Grouse, grumble, complain or yell.

-Call you names

-Act like aknow-it-all or wise-ass.

-Kiss you on the lips or grab your tush.

On the other hand, I will:

-Either shake your hand, hand bump, hug or high five- your choice.

-Tell you I'm glad to meet you.

-Ask if you'd care to write something in a small nice-to-meet-you note pad.

-And toast your beverage of choice- maybe even buy you a round!

mrussel1

Why the fuck are you coming if not to grab my tush?  What a buzzkill. 

dignin

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

You guys are old as shit.

47. I lived the movement first hand,  18 when Ten hit.  No regrets on that. 

I also lived it first hand, but I was a young pup then. Not old enough to go to any shows, just listen to the album's.

mrussel1

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

You guys are old as shit.

47. I lived the movement first hand,  18 when Ten hit.  No regrets on that. 

I also lived it first hand, but I was a young pup then. Not old enough to go to any shows, just listen to the album's.

So you gotta be pushing 40.  The moment was gone by 95. 

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

Why the fuck are you coming if not to grab my tush?  What a buzzkill. 

Alright, Jesus already, I'll grab your fucking tush. 

Oh, but wait, I'm hoping to bring my wife along too so maybe not! 

cincybearcat

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with. 

to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense. 

we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road. 

Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun... 

I have problems seeing the big deal here.

I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.

your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took. 

But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with. 

I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?

bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios. 

and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with. 

If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them. 

no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides. 

Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids. 

Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.

Right. I forgot books aren’t really your jam. 

Try living it before preaching. 

HughFreakingDillon

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak". 

So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old? 

I remember you pointing that out. As a father of two boys, one who just turned 3 a few months ago, this sounds about right. Also lines up with all my family and friends experiences who have kids around a similar age.

So most kids will be expressing their gender well before they encounter the roving gangs of cruel five-year-olds. 

first, the 5 year old thing was talking about identity, not bullying. but that doesn't match up with the attempt at clever quips. 

second, i guess we can tell all those people out there transitioning at age 17, 22, 35, 47, and 69, that they are well behind the curve of modern 3 year olds. 

HughFreakingDillon

so claiming to be rejecting gender norms, which would include, but not limited to, clothing, appearance in general, toys, etc. yet, the choosing of the name needs to be gender neutral. why? if you are so progressive and smashing through the glass ceiling that is gender traditions, why go with what traditional gender roles define as a gender neutral name? isn't that going along with gender norms? what's wrong with cynthia or gladys as a name if the child chooses to be a boy? it shouldn't matter, after all, no matter what the child chooses, if the kid is perfectly comfortable in their own skin and identity at age 3, well, then, what's the problem? 

and if the kid wants to change/choose their gender, why does name even matter? let the kid choose! i would imagine name is the least of the issues here. 

just name it baby x until it's old enough to crawl to its preferred name on a flash card in between diaper changes. 

amethgr8

+1

you end up with a baseline of some conformity no matter what

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

so claiming to be rejecting gender norms, which would include, but not limited to, clothing, appearance in general, toys, etc. yet, the choosing of the name needs to be gender neutral. why? if you are so progressive and smashing through the glass ceiling that is gender traditions, why go with what traditional gender roles define as a gender neutral name? isn't that going along with gender norms? what's wrong with cynthia or gladys as a name if the child chooses to be a boy? it shouldn't matter, after all, no matter what the child chooses, if the kid is perfectly comfortable in their own skin and identity at age 3, well, then, what's the problem? 

and if the kid wants to change/choose their gender, why does name even matter? let the kid choose! i would imagine name is the least of the issues here. 

just name it baby x until it's old enough to crawl to its preferred name on a flash card in between diaper changes. 

Or do what Wavy Gravy did and name the boy something beyond gender neutral:  Howdy Do-Good Gravy Tomahawk Truckstop Romney.

It seems fucked up to me to not acknowledge a kids gender.  Why set them up to have their heads messed with that way?  That doesn't mean you can't let them express themselves in individual ways.  As a toddler, I had a girl doll for a few years, a typical "girls toy". I didn't care, I liked dragging it around along with my blanket.  I was Schroeder with a doll.  Some time later on, I discovered that it was more interesting to make model airplanes, attach them to a string, and fly them around in a circle with lit firecrackers attached to the fuselage.  Given the chance, kids figure out what shit works for them.

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

so claiming to be rejecting gender norms, which would include, but not limited to, clothing, appearance in general, toys, etc. yet, the choosing of the name needs to be gender neutral. why? if you are so progressive and smashing through the glass ceiling that is gender traditions, why go with what traditional gender roles define as a gender neutral name? isn't that going along with gender norms? what's wrong with cynthia or gladys as a name if the child chooses to be a boy? it shouldn't matter, after all, no matter what the child chooses, if the kid is perfectly comfortable in their own skin and identity at age 3, well, then, what's the problem? 

and if the kid wants to change/choose their gender, why does name even matter? let the kid choose! i would imagine name is the least of the issues here. 

just name it baby x until it's old enough to crawl to its preferred name on a flash card in between diaper changes. 

Or do what Wavy Gravy did and name the boy something beyond gender neutral:  Howdy Do-Good Gravy Tomahawk Truckstop Romney.

It seems fucked up to me to not acknowledge a kids gender.  Why set them up to have their heads messed with that way?  That doesn't mean you can't let them express themselves in individual ways.  As a toddler, I had a girl doll for a few years, a typical "girls toy". I didn't care, I liked dragging it around along with my blanket.  I was Schroeder with a doll.  Some time later on, I discovered that it was more interesting to make model airplanes, attach them to a string, and fly them around in a circle with lit firecrackers attached to the fuselage.  Given the chance, kids figure out what shit works for them.

Schroeder was on keys. Linus had the blanket...

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

so claiming to be rejecting gender norms, which would include, but not limited to, clothing, appearance in general, toys, etc. yet, the choosing of the name needs to be gender neutral. why? if you are so progressive and smashing through the glass ceiling that is gender traditions, why go with what traditional gender roles define as a gender neutral name? isn't that going along with gender norms? what's wrong with cynthia or gladys as a name if the child chooses to be a boy? it shouldn't matter, after all, no matter what the child chooses, if the kid is perfectly comfortable in their own skin and identity at age 3, well, then, what's the problem? 

and if the kid wants to change/choose their gender, why does name even matter? let the kid choose! i would imagine name is the least of the issues here. 

just name it baby x until it's old enough to crawl to its preferred name on a flash card in between diaper changes. 

Or do what Wavy Gravy did and name the boy something beyond gender neutral:  Howdy Do-Good Gravy Tomahawk Truckstop Romney.

It seems fucked up to me to not acknowledge a kids gender.  Why set them up to have their heads messed with that way?  That doesn't mean you can't let them express themselves in individual ways.  As a toddler, I had a girl doll for a few years, a typical "girls toy". I didn't care, I liked dragging it around along with my blanket.  I was Schroeder with a doll.  Some time later on, I discovered that it was more interesting to make model airplanes, attach them to a string, and fly them around in a circle with lit firecrackers attached to the fuselage.  Given the chance, kids figure out what shit works for them.

Schroeder was on keys. Linus had the blanket...

How could I have forgotten that?  I need help.

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

so claiming to be rejecting gender norms, which would include, but not limited to, clothing, appearance in general, toys, etc. yet, the choosing of the name needs to be gender neutral. why? if you are so progressive and smashing through the glass ceiling that is gender traditions, why go with what traditional gender roles define as a gender neutral name? isn't that going along with gender norms? what's wrong with cynthia or gladys as a name if the child chooses to be a boy? it shouldn't matter, after all, no matter what the child chooses, if the kid is perfectly comfortable in their own skin and identity at age 3, well, then, what's the problem? 

and if the kid wants to change/choose their gender, why does name even matter? let the kid choose! i would imagine name is the least of the issues here. 

just name it baby x until it's old enough to crawl to its preferred name on a flash card in between diaper changes. 

Or do what Wavy Gravy did and name the boy something beyond gender neutral:  Howdy Do-Good Gravy Tomahawk Truckstop Romney.

It seems fucked up to me to not acknowledge a kids gender.  Why set them up to have their heads messed with that way?  That doesn't mean you can't let them express themselves in individual ways.  As a toddler, I had a girl doll for a few years, a typical "girls toy". I didn't care, I liked dragging it around along with my blanket.  I was Schroeder with a doll.  Some time later on, I discovered that it was more interesting to make model airplanes, attach them to a string, and fly them around in a circle with lit firecrackers attached to the fuselage.  Given the chance, kids figure out what shit works for them.

Schroeder was on keys. Linus had the blanket...

How could I have forgotten that?  I need help.

early onset dementia

ecdanc

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak". 

So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old? 

I remember you pointing that out. As a father of two boys, one who just turned 3 a few months ago, this sounds about right. Also lines up with all my family and friends experiences who have kids around a similar age.

So most kids will be expressing their gender well before they encounter the roving gangs of cruel five-year-olds. 

first, the 5 year old thing was talking about identity, not bullying. but that doesn't match up with the attempt at clever quips. 

second, i guess we can tell all those people out there transitioning at age 17, 22, 35, 47, and 69, that they are well behind the curve of modern 3 year olds. 

You don’t seem to understand the difference between initial gender expression and transitioning. 

ecdanc

HughFreakingDillon said:

so claiming to be rejecting gender norms, which would include, but not limited to, clothing, appearance in general, toys, etc. yet, the choosing of the name needs to be gender neutral. why? if you are so progressive and smashing through the glass ceiling that is gender traditions, why go with what traditional gender roles define as a gender neutral name? isn't that going along with gender norms? what's wrong with cynthia or gladys as a name if the child chooses to be a boy? it shouldn't matter, after all, no matter what the child chooses, if the kid is perfectly comfortable in their own skin and identity at age 3, well, then, what's the problem? 

and if the kid wants to change/choose their gender, why does name even matter? let the kid choose! i would imagine name is the least of the issues here. 

just name it baby x until it's old enough to crawl to its preferred name on a flash card in between diaper changes. 

For precisely the reasons you’ve already detailed: the world is full of shitty people. In most cases, our names stay with us for life. 

If you’d ever like to return to a conversation with me, let me know. For now it seems you’re content to keep bludgeoning your straw man.