I've never met a person who has complained that they were circumcised.
Not an argument in any way for taking control over and mutilating another persons body instead of letting that person A ) decide for themselves when being able to do so or B ) have a doctor come to the conclusion on a medical basis.
And I'm fairly sure you know this. But at the same time I believeyou are not open to, or admit to, a change of position because A ) you yourself were circumcised without consent and therefore "need" that to be a-okey or B ) You have taken the decision to circumcise your kids and do not want to face your own choices and having to re-evaluate choices made in relations to that or C ) you are unable, for whatever reason, to raise your view a tad from where you are standing.
And yes, now I would bet you will throw in something about there being a few percentage less risk of HIV or something like that. In a weird try to justify it being the morally right thing to do. But I have seen that before on here and with the going in circles The Dream Master-thing, the topic is not worth discussing.
Hopefully instead, you one day will admit the absurdity of it all to yourself.
You forgot D) I don't give a flying fuck. There are plenty more things that I can gripe about regarding my childhood than that.
I've never met a person who has complained that they were circumcised.
Not an argument in any way for taking control over and mutilating another persons body instead of letting that person A ) decide for themselves when being able to do so or B ) have a doctor come to the conclusion on a medical basis.
And I'm fairly sure you know this. But at the same time I believeyou are not open to, or admit to, a change of position because A ) you yourself were circumcised without consent and therefore "need" that to be a-okey or B ) You have taken the decision to circumcise your kids and do not want to face your own choices and having to re-evaluate choices made in relations to that or C ) you are unable, for whatever reason, to raise your view a tad from where you are standing.
And yes, now I would bet you will throw in something about there being a few percentage less risk of HIV or something like that. In a weird try to justify it being the morally right thing to do. But I have seen that before on here and with the going in circles The Dream Master-thing, the topic is not worth discussing.
Hopefully instead, you one day will admit the absurdity of it all to yourself.
You forgot D) I don't give a flying fuck.
Then wouldn't you be able to find a "I have not met a person per has complained that they were circumcised. But that is not an excuse for mutilating boys without their contest and having them decide over their own bodies of course. So it's pretty absurd when you think about it" from within yourself. Instead of whatever "I have not met a person per has complained that they were circumcised" is, if you are not giving a "flying fuck".
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
This is just a perfect example of accepting what one's culture does while rejecting what one's culture generally doesn't do, even when there are major similarities. One example of medically unnecessary genital surgery on children is accepted as normal, even positive, and another is abhorrent and unnatural.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I've never met a person who has complained that they were circumcised.
Not an argument in any way for taking control over and mutilating another persons body instead of letting that person A ) decide for themselves when being able to do so or B ) have a doctor come to the conclusion on a medical basis.
And I'm fairly sure you know this. But at the same time I believeyou are not open to, or admit to, a change of position because A ) you yourself were circumcised without consent and therefore "need" that to be a-okey or B ) You have taken the decision to circumcise your kids and do not want to face your own choices and having to re-evaluate choices made in relations to that or C ) you are unable, for whatever reason, to raise your view a tad from where you are standing.
And yes, now I would bet you will throw in something about there being a few percentage less risk of HIV or something like that. In a weird try to justify it being the morally right thing to do. But I have seen that before on here and with the going in circles The Dream Master-thing, the topic is not worth discussing.
Hopefully instead, you one day will admit the absurdity of it all to yourself.
You forgot D) I don't give a flying fuck.
Then wouldn't you be able to find a "I have not met a person per has complained that they were circumcised. But that is not an excuse for mutilating boys without their contest and having them decide over their own bodies of course. So it's pretty absurd when you think about it" from within yourself. Instead of whatever "I have not met a person per has complained that they were circumcised" is, if you are not giving a "flying fuck".
I have no idea what you mean. If you're saying that I've never heard anyone complain about their circumcision because I don't care to hear it, well that's kind of dumb. I hear about all sorts of things I don't care about. And remember, I don't care about MY circumcision. That's the point.
I've never met a person who has complained that they were circumcised.
Not an argument in any way for taking control over and mutilating another persons body instead of letting that person A ) decide for themselves when being able to do so or B ) have a doctor come to the conclusion on a medical basis.
And I'm fairly sure you know this. But at the same time I believeyou are not open to, or admit to, a change of position because A ) you yourself were circumcised without consent and therefore "need" that to be a-okey or B ) You have taken the decision to circumcise your kids and do not want to face your own choices and having to re-evaluate choices made in relations to that or C ) you are unable, for whatever reason, to raise your view a tad from where you are standing.
And yes, now I would bet you will throw in something about there being a few percentage less risk of HIV or something like that. In a weird try to justify it being the morally right thing to do. But I have seen that before on here and with the going in circles The Dream Master-thing, the topic is not worth discussing.
Hopefully instead, you one day will admit the absurdity of it all to yourself.
You forgot D) I don't give a flying fuck.
Then wouldn't you be able to find a "I have not met a person per has complained that they were circumcised. But that is not an excuse for mutilating boys without their contest and having them decide over their own bodies of course. So it's pretty absurd when you think about it" from within yourself. Instead of whatever "I have not met a person per has complained that they were circumcised" is, if you are not giving a "flying fuck".
I have no idea what you mean. If you're saying that I've never heard anyone complain about their circumcision because I don't care to hear it, well that's kind of dumb. I hear about all sorts of things I don't care about. And remember, I don't care about MY circumcision. That's the point.
Oh, you don't care about yooouuur circumcision.
Well then.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
#leavethedicksalone
My husband is miffed about having been circumcised as a baby; I've no complaints!
My dad was circumcised as well; it was simply a given among the Jews in Germany, at that time (1920's).
I can't imagine a grown man subjecting himself to that as an adult. I wonder if it's part of converting to Judaism...?
(someone please cue Elaine: "It had no...personality!"
My husband is miffed about having been circumcised as a baby; I've no complaints!
My dad was circumcised as well; it was simply a given among the Jews in Germany, at that time (1920's).
I can't imagine a grown man subjecting himself to that as an adult. I wonder if it's part of converting to Judaism...?
(someone please cue Elaine: "It had no...personality!"
But you can still see the argument for not mutilating a baby for the reason of "eh... reasons"? Even with it being a given for your grandfather and maybe even for your husband.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
My husband is miffed about having been circumcised as a baby; I've no complaints!
My dad was circumcised as well; it was simply a given among the Jews in Germany, at that time (1920's).
I can't imagine a grown man subjecting himself to that as an adult. I wonder if it's part of converting to Judaism...?
(someone please cue Elaine: "It had no...personality!"
But you can still see the argument for not mutilating a baby for the reason of "eh... reasons"? Even with it being a given for your grandfather and maybe even for your husband.
Yup. Never said I didn't.
Just that I'm quite happy with the end result, so to speak.
My husband is miffed about having been circumcised as a baby; I've no complaints!
My dad was circumcised as well; it was simply a given among the Jews in Germany, at that time (1920's).
I can't imagine a grown man subjecting himself to that as an adult. I wonder if it's part of converting to Judaism...?
(someone please cue Elaine: "It had no...personality!"
But you can still see the argument for not mutilating a baby for the reason of "eh... reasons"? Even with it being a given for your grandfather and maybe even for your husband.
Yup. Never said I didn't.
Just that I'm quite happy with the end result, so to speak.
Ba da tss... I like it!
And yes Spiritual.. I don't care about MINE. And I haven't met anyone that does, but I'm sure they're out there. There's no law to do it, or not do it, so I definitely could care less about the topic. My son was, and he's never asked me about it once. He's 18 now.
I'm happy to answer all these questions, but I am curious: how many of you with kids get asked why you're choosing to raise them as gendered?
I'd assume very few. But you have to understand you'd be in the vast minority and while many would have negative connotations in asking, many also would just like to understand. I get asked a lot of questions about a lot of things. Specifically related to parenting choices throughout all the years. It's not uncommon or unique for people to ask questions and even judge your parenting choices.
Was your initial decision to raise your daughter as a daughter a conscious choice? I.e., did you sit down and ask "should we raise our child as a girl?"
Ummmm maybe since I wanted a girl more than anything, though certainly not in regards to marketing “girl” things.
Quick followup clarification, if I may. It sounds like you're saying to find out you were excited to *learn* you were having a girl, not that you decided to raise her as a girl. Is that right?
See all five of our kids we raise as boys and girls. What they end up choosing later on in life is up to them and I will love them all no matter what. I just don’t think the gender neutral thing benefits anyone. Imo calling them he/she has no bearing on whether or not they are trans. If anything I would think gender neutral would confuse a kid even more.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
My husband is miffed about having been circumcised as a baby; I've no complaints!
My dad was circumcised as well; it was simply a given among the Jews in Germany, at that time (1920's).
I can't imagine a grown man subjecting himself to that as an adult. I wonder if it's part of converting to Judaism...?
(someone please cue Elaine: "It had no...personality!"
But you can still see the argument for not mutilating a baby for the reason of "eh... reasons"? Even with it being a given for your grandfather and maybe even for your husband.
Yup. Never said I didn't.
Just that I'm quite happy with the end result, so to speak.
Ba da tss... I like it!
And yes Spiritual.. I don't care about MINE. And I haven't met anyone that does, but I'm sure they're out there. There's no law to do it, or not do it, so I definitely could care less about the topic. My son was, and he's never asked me about it once. He's 18 now.
I have four sons, all are snipped and no complaints.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
This is just a perfect example of accepting what one's culture does while rejecting what one's culture generally doesn't do, even when there are major similarities. One example of medically unnecessary genital surgery on children is accepted as normal, even positive, and another is abhorrent and unnatural.
my wife and I decided prior to our girls being born that if we were to have boys, no circumcision. it's barbaric and serves no purpose.
This is just a perfect example of accepting what one's culture does while rejecting what one's culture generally doesn't do, even when there are major similarities. One example of medically unnecessary genital surgery on children is accepted as normal, even positive, and another is abhorrent and unnatural.
my wife and I decided prior to our girls being born that if we were to have boys, no circumcision. it's barbaric and serves no purpose.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
This is just a perfect example of accepting what one's culture does while rejecting what one's culture generally doesn't do, even when there are major similarities. One example of medically unnecessary genital surgery on children is accepted as normal, even positive, and another is abhorrent and unnatural.
my wife and I decided prior to our girls being born that if we were to have boys, no circumcision. it's barbaric and serves no purpose.
We talked about it briefly and couldn't decide. We had a girl thankfully. Not just for that, but it was a nice benefit.
het up? I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean.
I just get annoyed when people jump into a thread flapping their morally superior gums around. I would expect someone to hold my feet to the fire if I was to act this way as well. there's just zero need for this type of "observation".
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
I agreed with you...
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
There’s also medically necessary circumcision that some men develop later in life ...
yes, of course, but doing it as a baby, in my eyes, is barbaric. I don't care that I was, as i obviously have no memory of it, but it's proven that for the vast majority of males, there is no medical reason to do it.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
No, it's like buying life insurance even though the chances are slim you'll use it.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
No, it's like buying life insurance even though the chances are slim you'll use it.
There are bigger fights to be had. Let's head to Cyberdyne.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Comments
Then wouldn't you be able to find a "I have not met a person per has complained that they were circumcised. But that is not an excuse for mutilating boys without their contest and having them decide over their own bodies of course. So it's pretty absurd when you think about it" from within yourself. Instead of whatever "I have not met a person per has complained that they were circumcised" is, if you are not giving a "flying fuck".
Well then.
My husband is miffed about having been circumcised as a baby; I've no complaints!
My dad was circumcised as well; it was simply a given among the Jews in Germany, at that time (1920's).
I can't imagine a grown man subjecting himself to that as an adult. I wonder if it's part of converting to Judaism...?
(someone please cue Elaine: "It had no...personality!"
Just that I'm quite happy with the end result, so to speak.
http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652
And yes Spiritual.. I don't care about MINE. And I haven't met anyone that does, but I'm sure they're out there. There's no law to do it, or not do it, so I definitely could care less about the topic. My son was, and he's never asked me about it once. He's 18 now.
www.headstonesband.com
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
I just get annoyed when people jump into a thread flapping their morally superior gums around. I would expect someone to hold my feet to the fire if I was to act this way as well. there's just zero need for this type of "observation".
www.headstonesband.com
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com