i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".
So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old?
I remember you pointing that out. As a father of two boys, one who just turned 3 a few months ago, this sounds about right. Also lines up with all my family and friends experiences who have kids around a similar age.
So most kids will be expressing their gender well before they encounter the roving gangs of cruel five-year-olds.
But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?
We treat P as if they have no gender, because they don’t have one yet.
So what about the name? Giving them a historically gender neutral one to be safe? Or waiting until they pick a name themselves at 3?
But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?
We treat P as if they have no gender, because they don’t have one yet.
So what about the name? Giving them a historically gender neutral one to be safe? Or waiting until they pick a name themselves at 3?
Androgynous name.
It's not really Pat, is it? Hugh made that joke, but there's no way that can be it.
So if your method plays out over time, will the gender line between names be eliminated? That would be interesting. Would it also eliminate the tradition of names to honor a family member? As I mentioned earlier, my son is Nicholas, named after his grandfather. Would I name my daughter Nicholas? I guess maybe?
i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".
So you didn’t miss the part where I explained that gender expression starts around 3 years old?
I remember you pointing that out. As a father of two boys, one who just turned 3 a few months ago, this sounds about right. Also lines up with all my family and friends experiences who have kids around a similar age.
So most kids will be expressing their gender well before they encounter the roving gangs of cruel five-year-olds.
But are we just talking about what pronoun to use till the child is 3 years old... or do you include other gender-related things into that in this discussion?
We treat P as if they have no gender, because they don’t have one yet.
So what about the name? Giving them a historically gender neutral one to be safe? Or waiting until they pick a name themselves at 3?
Androgynous name.
It's not really Pat, is it? Hugh made that joke, but there's no way that can be it.
So if your method plays out over time, will the gender line between names be eliminated? That would be interesting. Would it also eliminate the tradition of names to honor a family member? As I mentioned earlier, my son is Nicholas, named after his grandfather. Would I name my daughter Nicholas? I guess maybe?
I think that's the idea. The name wouldn't matter at that point. I like the whole idea, and I'm glad people are acting on it to break down those barriers.
I met a woman named Ronnie, said her dad wanted a boy and that was it on her birth certificate. I don't think the name matters much, nowadays people are using unusual names, Gage, Summer, I saw a girl on ForgedInFire her name was Weslie.
My cousins husband, in his mid 30's, decided to have a circumcision. He was doing a bicycling around Europe for a year and a half and risk of infection was too great for him to risk. his choice, maybe some do fine with it.
Anyone could argue pro's and con's of all the choices parents have to make for their kids. I think kids need a baseline and if doesn't work as they grow, then adjust it. The part I said about accepting our bodies was more general in the sense of height, weight, hair color, complexion, everything one person doesn't like about ourselves, we have to come to terms with it IF we cannot change it. Even if you raise a child neutral, they identify with female at the age of 3 and when she turns 14 she wants to transition. what's the difference.
In certain states a child can marry at the age of 14 if both parents give permission, I don't agree with that, but if the 14 yr old wants to, they will probably find a way, or maybe not. A mom who let her 16 yr old have breast implants, I don't feel the 16yr old gave her body enough time to develop and see what the end result is, and then if she wants them okay.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.
Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.
Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.
Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.
Cheers. I’m still in what I consider the front line...and the war is heating up.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.
Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.
Cheers. I’m still in what I consider the front line...and the war is heating up.
I ll be holding the line on multiple fronts next year: high school (11th grade), middle school (6th grade) and elementary school (1st grade). cool thing is I ll be able to teach one of my kids next year. I taught my daughter and it was great.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.
Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.
Cheers. I’m still in what I consider the front line...and the war is heating up.
21, 18, 11. I'm making good progress, and ready to wrap up this kid thing soon.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.
Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.
It is cute to see a new dad suddenly be the parenting expert. Anyway, good luck to all parents out there. It is a hard job with a tremendous amount of joy mixed with inevitable frustration and anxiety and sometimes heartbreak. But it is rewarding to see them become young, successful adults. Mine are 29 and 26 and I'm surely no expert.
Where the fuck did I claim to be an expert? People asked me about gender neutral parenting and I told them what I do. Y’all suck at reading.
to me, the infinitesimal reality of your child wanting/needing to transition at some point in life does not require everyone to start from a position of neutrality. as mcgruff said, i think that could be incredibly confusing to a kid who by default is highly likely going to identify as the traditional gender that goes with the biological sex they are born with.
to me that's like preparing your budget based on the possibility of winning the lottery. it just doesn't make sense.
we as a society have a long way to go in acceptance and normalization of those that want/need this in their lives, but I think it could be detrimental long term for everyone to take this road.
Well... part of being a parent is to listen and be attentive to ones child's needs and wants. So, if the child with the NON CIRCUMCISED penis start to express feeling more like a girl - then a good parent would be open minded and dynamic in the parenting. And if it comes down to the child wanting to be called a "she". Then just switch the pronoun...
I have problems seeing the big deal here.
I mean. My niece loved Frozen. And I thought she still did. Then she said she HATED FROZEN and only loved pokemon. So I adjusted and started teasing her about her still having Olaf bedsheets.
your post has nothing to do with what I wrote. I WOULD be attentive to their needs if they were to express the need to transition, in whatever form that took.
But I already stated: starting from a point of neutrality, where 99.9% of all other kids are one or the other, could be incredibly harmful. The benefits just do not outweigh the cons on this. I think neutral gender kids could end up being confused when there was no actual need for it to begin with.
I'm curious to hear how it could be incredibly harmful?
bullying. the kid doesn't know which bathroom to go to at school. kids start saying "what ARE you?", and it snowballs from there. any other number of scenarios.
and I can't imagine having a FORCED identity crisis at 5 years old when I wouldn't have had one to begin with.
If only there were a way to prepare children for things. It’s too bad we can’t talk to them.
no amount of talking to them prepares them for the hell that is bullying 6 hours a day 5 days a week. if it did, you wouldn't see a seismic drop in teen suicides.
Apparently those parents just aren’t talking to their kids.
Gotta give the guy a break though, 1st kid, 9 months I think? Regardless very young. He had no clue. It’s all Parenting book bullshit.
47. I lived the movement first hand, 18 when Ten hit. No regrets on that.
College or high school?
Class of 91 for HS. So it was early college. I just remember Ten, Bloodsugar, Nevermind, Facelift were on full time, along with Mama Said. We were digging Lenny too.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Nah, he's ours around here. The voice of reason, moderation and moral clarity.
until you piss him off......
given my previous history I am very thankful to not have kids. wouldnt have been a pleasant upbringing.
but I do have 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousins that trust my opinions over others..... so in that way I am helping raise a couple generations....
Admittedly and much to my embarrassment, I will admit I have had a short fuse now and then. The first step is admitting it, the second step is working on it- which I do. But be assured of this- if I can get down to Oakland to meet some of you, I guarantee I will not do the following:
-Grouse, grumble, complain or yell.
-Call you names
-Act like aknow-it-all or wise-ass.
-Kiss you on the lips or grab your tush.
On the other hand, I will:
-Either shake your hand, hand bump, hug or high five- your choice.
-Tell you I'm glad to meet you.
-Ask if you'd care to write something in a small nice-to-meet-you note pad.
-And toast your beverage of choice- maybe even buy you a round!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
So if your method plays out over time, will the gender line between names be eliminated? That would be interesting. Would it also eliminate the tradition of names to honor a family member? As I mentioned earlier, my son is Nicholas, named after his grandfather. Would I name my daughter Nicholas? I guess maybe?
My cousins husband, in his mid 30's, decided to have a circumcision. He was doing a bicycling around Europe for a year and a half and risk of infection was too great for him to risk. his choice, maybe some do fine with it.
Anyone could argue pro's and con's of all the choices parents have to make for their kids. I think kids need a baseline and if doesn't work as they grow, then adjust it. The part I said about accepting our bodies was more general in the sense of height, weight, hair color, complexion, everything one person doesn't like about ourselves, we have to come to terms with it IF we cannot change it. Even if you raise a child neutral, they identify with female at the age of 3 and when she turns 14 she wants to transition. what's the difference.
In certain states a child can marry at the age of 14 if both parents give permission, I don't agree with that, but if the 14 yr old wants to, they will probably find a way, or maybe not. A mom who let her 16 yr old have breast implants, I don't feel the 16yr old gave her body enough time to develop and see what the end result is, and then if she wants them okay.
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
Missoula MT 2018
cool thing is I ll be able to teach one of my kids next year. I taught my daughter and it was great.
Ah, yes, true!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14