The coronavirus

GlowGirl

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Annika asks: How are we to do during the easter break. Our healthy 10-11 year old kids who usually play together at school, can we let them play with each other at home?

Giesecke: YES.




Björn asks: I am 72 years old and is following all given recommendations. My father is 97 years old and lives alone without any help. We have no diseases. Can I visit him?

Giesecke: Hmm... yes, I think so. If Björn is healthy he should visit his old dad.




With the virus now spreading through our retirement homes - isn't this proof that Swedens way is way to lenient?

Giesecke: No. Not at all.



Daniel asks: Different experts seem to asses the risks completely differently. Who should one really listen to?

Giesecke: One should listen to the Public Health Authority. There lies the best expertise. Suddenly for some reason there have popped up many "experts" lately, and it's not always that they know what they are talking about.

News Host: But it is easy I feel to be affected of how it looks around the world. Where they have much stricter rules.

Giesecke: But in the end it doesn't really matter. Go out an evening in Stockholm, it's completely empty. People are at home. But it's so nifty in Sweden because when the authoritys recommend something - people follow. We don't need the police in the streets, or fines or jail time. And the difference between Sweden and the rest of the world is marginal.

News Host: But lets take masks, where the opinions really differ around the world.

Giesecke: That is because the knowledge about how much masks help or not help is really lacking. We know that it makes a difference in the hospital, but walking around outside with them it is highly doubtful it has any real effect.



Karena ask: If there are a lack of protective equipment in the hospitals, and the virus doesn't survive that long on surfaces couldn't you put visors and things in quarantine and re-use them.

Giesecke: Yes. Should work.

Lena asks: We can now see more and more countries advice people to use face masks. Why are we not doing this in Sweden?

Giesecke: Because there are no real proofs of it having effect. Running around with a piece of cloth that get moist?



Erik asks: Can older people above 70 years old also get mild symptoms or do they always get really sick?

Giesecke: No no no. They can also get next to no symptoms. 

Ummmm. Forget it, I am at a loss for words.

Mike D88

pjl44 said:

Hey! Remember when I made fun of the SEIU a bunch of pages ago for "finding" a distributor with 39 million masks. Guess what? None of them showed up. Kaiser tried to verify and inspect the masks before the distributor finally admitted they didn't have possession of them. Now there's a federal fraud investigation. Unreal.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/coronavirus-seiu-masks-supplies-investigation

The fraudsters and grifters are coming out of the woodwork for this one.

Spiritual_Chaos said:

YAKIMATSU said:

Immunity?  Has it been proven that anyone is immune? Herd immunity is a theory. Immune,  I hope, but I also want proof. Show me infected people coughing and sneezing and touching others with no protection with no effects. 

The swede in you should give you a little more faith in science. 

In what way is herd immunity a theory by the way?

If you want to talk science: It has not been proven scientifically that humans develop immunity to SARS-CoV-2. It is merely assumed that they will, and that the presence of antibodies indicates a recovered person with immunity. And immunity could present its own dangers. Antibodies to respiratory disease drop off with time. Coronaviruses can also undergo ADE.

hedonist

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Is this supposed to mean something?

mcgruff10

MF117973 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Annika asks: How are we to do during the easter break. Our healthy 10-11 year old kids who usually play together at school, can we let them play with each other at home?

Giesecke: YES.




Björn asks: I am 72 years old and is following all given recommendations. My father is 97 years old and lives alone without any help. We have no diseases. Can I visit him?

Giesecke: Hmm... yes, I think so. If Björn is healthy he should visit his old dad.




With the virus now spreading through our retirement homes - isn't this proof that Swedens way is way to lenient?

Giesecke: No. Not at all.



Daniel asks: Different experts seem to asses the risks completely differently. Who should one really listen to?

Giesecke: One should listen to the Public Health Authority. There lies the best expertise. Suddenly for some reason there have popped up many "experts" lately, and it's not always that they know what they are talking about.

News Host: But it is easy I feel to be affected of how it looks around the world. Where they have much stricter rules.

Giesecke: But in the end it doesn't really matter. Go out an evening in Stockholm, it's completely empty. People are at home. But it's so nifty in Sweden because when the authoritys recommend something - people follow. We don't need the police in the streets, or fines or jail time. And the difference between Sweden and the rest of the world is marginal.

News Host: But lets take masks, where the opinions really differ around the world.

Giesecke: That is because the knowledge about how much masks help or not help is really lacking. We know that it makes a difference in the hospital, but walking around outside with them it is highly doubtful it has any real effect.



Karena ask: If there are a lack of protective equipment in the hospitals, and the virus doesn't survive that long on surfaces couldn't you put visors and things in quarantine and re-use them.

Giesecke: Yes. Should work.

Lena asks: We can now see more and more countries advice people to use face masks. Why are we not doing this in Sweden?

Giesecke: Because there are no real proofs of it having effect. Running around with a piece of cloth that get moist?



Erik asks: Can older people above 70 years old also get mild symptoms or do they always get really sick?

Giesecke: No no no. They can also get next to no symptoms. 

Ummmm. Forget it, I am at a loss for words.

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe?  I just don't get it.  I guess this what the rest of the world feels like when Trump says the science isn't there to believe in global warming.

brianlux

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

RideRick said:

MayDay10 said:

In 25 days, I havent been anywhere other than stopping into work briefly and buying food 

25 days?  Inside since beginning of March?
We are inside our own houses since 13 March here in the Netherlands.  Reasonable liberty as long as we as the people don't go en masse to parks and beaches or likeso.  Shops are still open.  You can go to homemarkets and supermarkets.  Etc.  Only small shops who can't create enough room.  Still..  it doesn't feel like the Corona is hitting us hard.  But i have to be carefull because i am a possible IC patient.

That's interesting, Rick.  Here in California it is much different.  If my wife's bookstore had isles wide enough to drive a bus through and had only 2 customers a day it would still not be allowed to open.  Only critical infrastructure and essential services are open. 

As I posted earlier, it’s city living that will be under economic attack more so than the places in between. If you work in a city you could come in contact with thousands each day and there is no way to control the spread under those conditions until a treatment is developed. And historically (not wanting to make a derisive MSFT comment!) but cities drive the US economy.

S Korea has been a top performing nation for weeks and they are still getting 50 new cases per day. My large employer shut our offices down when NY had only 200 cases, to put that in perspective, and at that time, we had no idea NY would become the epicenter.

I can't imagine how hard this is (and even more so, will become) for people living in inner cities, especially the less well of in urban areas.  Yes, our greatest cities- places like New York, and Los Angeles- are the heart of the country.  Though not a big city person myself, I hope these places recover well after the virus is finally done and gone.  It will be an uphill struggle, no doubt.

mcgruff10

It's like groundhog day here in NJ:

New Jersey’s deaths from the coronavirus increased to 1,003 on Monday as health officials announced the total COVID-19 positive tests jumped to at least 41,090 with the peak of the outbreak still likely weeks away.

The latest coronavirus numbers revealed on the state Department of Health’s website show more than 3,500 new coronavirus cases in the state. Gov. Phil Murphy is expected to discuss the efforts to slow the spread of the virus during his daily briefing Monday.

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

 I guess this what the rest of the world feels like when Trump says the science isn't there to believe in global warming.

What would you feel about someone proudly voting for Trump, who says the science isn't there to believe in global warming, over someone who does believe in science?

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe? 

How's it going with saving lives in New Jersey with all those scientifically superproven precautions you have that Sweden's expertise are so idiotic to believe are pointless or at present unwise when weighing them against the negative effect they would have on public health?

cincybearcat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe? 

How's it going with saving lives in New Jersey with all those scientifically superproven precautions you have that Sweden's expertise are so idiotic to believe are pointless or at present unwise when weighing them against the negative effect they would have on public health?

JFC...What the fuck is wrong with you?  

Spiritual_Chaos

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe? 

How's it going with saving lives in New Jersey with all those scientifically superproven precautions you have that Sweden's expertise are so idiotic to believe are pointless or at present unwise when weighing them against the negative effect they would have on public health?

JFC...What the fuck is wrong with you?  

? I asked a question ? 
.
But let me guess the answer - Sweden doesn't look that much different. As Gisecke himself has said:

And the difference between Sweden and the rest of the world is marginal.

mcgruff10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe? 

How's it going with saving lives in New Jersey with all those scientifically superproven precautions you have that Sweden's expertise are so idiotic to believe are pointless or at present unwise when weighing them against the negative effect they would have on public health?

That's such a douche/asshole response.  
We are the most densely populated state in the nation; the most crowded part of nj is one big suburb of nyc so proximity is a huge factor on why we got hit so hard.  I shutter to think what the numbers would look like if we hadn't done anything.  

DewieCox

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe? 

How's it going with saving lives in New Jersey with all those scientifically superproven precautions you have that Sweden's expertise are so idiotic to believe are pointless or at present unwise when weighing them against the negative effect they would have on public health?

This is borderline psychotic.

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe? 

How's it going with saving lives in New Jersey with all those scientifically superproven precautions you have that Sweden's expertise are so idiotic to believe are pointless or at present unwise when weighing them against the negative effect they would have on public health?

That's such a douche response.  
We are the most densely populated state in the nation; the most crowded part of nj is one big suburb of nyc so proximity is a huge factor on why we got hit so hard.  I shutter to think what the numbers would look like if we hadn't done anything.  

And the swedish PHA shutter (shudder?) at the thought of what would happen to public health if schools are closed down when not needed, what would happen to public health with depression levels of unemployment, what would happen to women and children's health under lengthy periods of isolation with POS men, what would happen when people walk around in masks made out of Pearl Jam tshirt that has no scientific basis VS "STAY HOME IF FEELING SICK AND DO NOT CROWD TOGETHER".

It's all about making the hospitals cope, isolating people of risk - and weighing this against everything else causing negative effect to public health.  

In the end, as Giesecke says - most countries will have similar levels of sick/dead. Even with you closing your borders or not.

mcgruff10

DewieCox said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe? 

How's it going with saving lives in New Jersey with all those scientifically superproven precautions you have that Sweden's expertise are so idiotic to believe are pointless or at present unwise when weighing them against the negative effect they would have on public health?

This is borderline psychotic.

Agreed.  

Mike D88

If Sweden is not doing markedly better or worse than other countries, then this thread could stand to have a lot less discussion about it.

cincybearcat

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/sweden-prepares-to-tighten-coronavirus-measures-as-death-toll-climbs

Spiritual_Chaos

Mike D88 said:

If Sweden is not doing markedly better or worse than other countries, then this thread could stand to have a lot less discussion about it.

Well, put your action into words then and drop in another country into the discussion.

Ledbetterman10

cincybearcat said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/sweden-prepares-to-tighten-coronavirus-measures-as-death-toll-climbs

In the immortal words of Cheech...
https://youtu.be/ygWQZt0Fo0Q

Spiritual_Chaos

cincybearcat said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/sweden-prepares-to-tighten-coronavirus-measures-as-death-toll-climbs

Yes, Sweden has put up stricter regulation when the PHA feel it is needed, or when what they has attempted has not worked as good as hoped.

From your article:

Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, has described the country’s coronavirus strategy as an attempt to ensure “a slow spread of infection and that the health services are not overwhelmed”, arguing that it is important for a part of the population to acquire immunity.

Tegnell has denied trying to build rapid “herd immunity” to the virus, a strategy originally adopted by the UK and the Netherlands before projected soaring death numbers prompted those countries to change course, but he has conceded that such a policy is “not contradictory” to Sweden’s objectives.

“It is important to have a policy that can be sustained over a longer period, meaning staying home if you are sick,” he said recently. “Locking people up at home won’t work in the longer term. Sooner or later people are going to go out anyway.”

pjl44

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

It's not even worth responding.  How many lives could have been saved if Sweden actually had the same precautions as the rest of Europe? 

How's it going with saving lives in New Jersey with all those scientifically superproven precautions you have that Sweden's expertise are so idiotic to believe are pointless or at present unwise when weighing them against the negative effect they would have on public health?