The coronavirus
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I think he was talking globally.
Today was another bad day here...getting worse before it gets better
F the SARS-CoV-2 virus!The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
There are reports of the virus damaging not only the lungs, but the heart muscle as well.0
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I don't defend anything my country does blindly.mcgruff10 said:
I just find your post so hypocritical. You defend your country's bad decisions blindly. You actually poked fun at my home state where people are dying left and right.Spiritual_Chaos said:
How much power did they have to act on the behalf of the US on the world scene during e.g. the Ebola outbreak? Haven't seen many governors rocking meetings at the UN Security Council. Or taking a leadership position in an international coalition to stop a humanitarian crisis, in e.g. West Africa. But could be wrong.mcgruff10 said:
There is plenty of leadership from approx 44 of both republican and Democratic governors.Spiritual_Chaos said:"This is the first global crisis in the post-America world, when we don't have any american leadership. We had the ebola outbreak in 2014-2015 - with a strong american leadership facing that crisis. The US was important, to mobilise and to call on meetings in the UN Security Council. Now all that is history."
- Carl Bildt
Why is it that you can make a jab at my government for not getting involved with West Africa (seriously that was your rebuttal) but it is ok for your country to do whatever the fuck it wants when it comes to covid 19?
Like I said, there is plenty of leadership to go around except for states like TN, Wyoming, Utah, etc. Washington's governor did an awesome job. Where I live, the combined states CT, NY and NJ all responded well and in a timely manner. Seems like your country for whatever reason has something to prove but in the end it could potentially kill a lot of people.
I have not poked fun in any way. Except maybe at Kat in the videogame thread.
Your. government. WAS. GETTING. INVOLVED. in. West. Africa. That. is. the. point. of. the. mans. quote.
What has your local governments doing a good job, with the former prime minister and foreign minister of Sweden considering America's role as a strong standfast leader on the global scene during humanitarian criseses being gone with Trump in charge and us now going through our first global crisis in this post-America world?
Couldn't suspect that quote hurting someone's patriotic pride.
You missed the people laughing at Trump at the UN speech?Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
I'm gonna stay in for the entire April.bbiggs said:There are reports of the virus damaging not only the lungs, but the heart muscle as well.
*booting up Zelda: Breath of the Wild*"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
By the way, we should all be rooting for Sweden to be correct. Not only would it mean no incremental deaths, but also that we could get some degree of normalcy back quicker. That said, the self-assuredness of those commentors needs to be dialed back about 80% for this stage of the crisis.0
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The article is too long to be copied but it does go through all the theories:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/us/coronavirus-scientists-debate-origin-theories-invs/index.htmlHow did coronavirus break out? Theories abound as researchers race to solve genetic detective story
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Ledbetterman10 said:Another election thread closed. The poor mods must feel like kindergarten teachers with some of you guys.Still trying to figure out why the democratic debate thread got canned. Oh well, old world problems.0
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I referenced someone by their handle.Lerxst1992 said:Ledbetterman10 said:Another election thread closed. The poor mods must feel like kindergarten teachers with some of you guys.Still trying to figure out why the democratic debate thread got canned. Oh well, old world problems.0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:
Prepare for the mother of all s**t storms if Sweden pulls this off
If Sweden, which has not locked down its economy and society, emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the true extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses
In a word: Sweden. What happens if they pull this off? What happens if it turns out that we could have coped with COVID-19 without collapsing entire sectors of the economy putting millions on the dole, and imposing some of the most draconian restrictions on civil liberties in living memory?
Sweden has not closed the bars. Shopping malls are open. Schools and companies are open too. There are some restrictions such as on gatherings of over 50 people. But, in comparison with most European countries, life in Sweden is relatively normal.
Right now, Sweden's death rate from coronavirus is 33 per million of the population. In France it is 83. In Italy it is 230. In Britain it is 43. In the Netherlands it is 78.
/.../What is interesting though, is that precisely because it is Sweden, the usual suspects in our politics who benefit from disillusionment with the establishment may find it hard to profit from this. The Swedish government is led by Stefan Loeven, a Social Democrat.
Sweden is practically a role model for mainstream, left of centre politics. If you're a European populist, it's going to be more than a little incongruous to start singing the praises of Sweden, of all countries.
Similarly in America. Donald Trump has, albeit reluctantly, broadly followed the lockdown policies we see across most of Europe. Unless he very quickly does a 180 degree turn (and don't rule that out) how can he profit from his usual disdain for the way things are done by the establishment?
That said, if this particular "Swedish model" wins the day, someone is going to get it in the neck. The question is, who?
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/7649/prepare_for_the_mother_of_all_s_t_storms_if_sweden_pulls_this_offCountries are not “pulling anything off.” NY metro is ground zero (again) because it is the definitive international city. People come and go from anywhere in the world to here. Y’all might recall weeks ago Jose was talking about how the Elmhurst Queens hospital was like a war zone. Why is that? Does elmhurst not know how to “pull it off.” No that has nothing to do with it. Elmhurst happens to have the second largest Chinatown in Queens. I'm willing to bet people came over from Wuhan to Queens. Given the massive density and immensely packed subway system that runs mostly underground, it was game over.0 -
cutz said:
I tried and posted this a few times but no comments, but that's okay since they are not Americans suggesting this?Spiritual_Chaos said:
Well, put your action into words then and drop in another country into the discussion.Mike D88 said:If Sweden is not doing markedly better or worse than other countries, then this thread could stand to have a lot less discussion about it.
I don't watch any videos posted on here. Don't have the time to watch something when I could read it instead.
However, I think this is a response:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-52192184The head of the World Health Organization (WHO) has condemned as "racist" the comments by two French doctors who suggested a vaccine for the coronavirus could be tested in Africa.
"Africa can't and won't be a testing ground for any vaccine," said Director General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.
The doctors' remarks during a TV debate sparked outrage, and they were accused of treating Africans like "human guinea pigs".
One of them later issued an apology.
When asked about the doctors' suggestion during the WHO's coronavirus briefing, Dr Tedros became visibly angry, calling it a hangover from the "colonial mentality".
"It was a disgrace, appalling, to hear during the 21st Century, to hear from scientists, that kind of remark. We condemn this in the strongest terms possible, and we assure you that this will not happen," he said.
As the number of confirmed cases in Africa continues to rise, some governments are imposing stricter measures to try to slow the spread of the virus. Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta has banned all travel in and out of the capital, Nairobi, and three other large towns for three weeks.
What did the doctors say?
During a debate on French TV channel LCI, Camille Locht, head of research at Inserm health research group, was talking about a vaccine trial in Europe and Australia.
Jean-Paul Mira, head of intensive care at Cochin hospital in Paris, then said: "If I can be provocative, shouldn't we be doing this study in Africa, where there are no masks, no treatments, no resuscitation?
"A bit like it is done elsewhere for some studies on Aids. In prostitutes, we try things because we know that they are highly exposed and that they do not protect themselves."
Mr Locht nodded in agreement at this suggestion, and said: "You are right. We are in the process of thinking about a study in parallel in Africa."
Dr Mira had earlier questioned whether the study would work as planned on healthcare workers in Australia and Europe because they had access to personal protective equipment (PPE) while working.
Media captionCoronavirus in Africa: Debunking fake news and myths around Covid-19The show sparked widespread anger, including from former footballer Didier Drogba, who called the comments "deeply racist". He added: "Do not take African people as human guinea pigs! It’s absolutely disgusting".
Fellow former footballer Samuel Eto’o called the doctors "murderers".
The doctors' comments have also fuelled existing fears in Africa that African people will be used as guinea pigs for a new coronavirus vaccine.
Coronavirus centres have been targeted in African countries - most recently, a facility that was under construction in Abidjan in Ivory Coast was attacked and destroyed by protesters.
Footage posted on social media showed people tearing the centre apart with their bare hands, and smashing construction materials on the ground.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
The theory in the Netherlands is dat if you let it grow slowly more and more people get infected and not 100% will die. So whoever is infected is most likely to be immune. Untill now we still have the science on our side. Not much different to Sweden except that we closed all bars and services which requires fysical contact. We cannot have a lockdown with soldiers marching in the street. Last time was 1940-1945 and since then we changed so hard as a country. Maybe to free of mind to some but militairy force is also not strong enough to march the streets. You need to invade us otherwise we will not accept it.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In what way is herd immunity a theory by the way?
So our goverment choose... Herd Immunity as a solution to the answer despice some experts would rather see us lockdowned.
The numbers are in our favor, but maybe we do not test enough.
That is the mayor problem, we don't test enough. With testing like South Korea you can search out those who are immune and those who aren't and those who are very infectious.
But nobody has the answer, untill now it is still not a Zombie breakout. If millions are dying i would be the first one to take these words back but even in Africa, India or China it is not killing people in millions as everybody is thinking right now. Alright,, the USA, Spain and Italy are hard strucked but not 100% of the country is striked by it.| Pinkpop 1992 *BEST EVER* | Rotterdam 1993 | Amsterdam 1996 | Pinkpop 2000 | Arnhem 2006 | Nijmegen 2007 | Rotterdam 2009 | Nijmegen 2010 | Amsterdam I + II 2012 ** | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2012 First European Concert *EPIC*| Amsterdam I + II 2014 | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2016 night I | Amsterdam I + II 2018 | Amsterdam I -> Canceled + II 2022 *EPIC0 -
Well... Boris is not shaking any hands now is he..static111 said:don't make a Brexit joke...don't make a Brexit joke...don't make a brexit joke....Pheewwwwww
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/mar/27/i-shook-hands-with-everybody-says-boris-johnson-weeks-before-coronavirus-diagnosis-video
| Pinkpop 1992 *BEST EVER* | Rotterdam 1993 | Amsterdam 1996 | Pinkpop 2000 | Arnhem 2006 | Nijmegen 2007 | Rotterdam 2009 | Nijmegen 2010 | Amsterdam I + II 2012 ** | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2012 First European Concert *EPIC*| Amsterdam I + II 2014 | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2016 night I | Amsterdam I + II 2018 | Amsterdam I -> Canceled + II 2022 *EPIC0 -
Well, if immunity is a thing with this virus which every expert are sure of due to it being another corona-virus, then herd immunity will be reached. Either from enough people getting the virus or through a vaccine in 18 months or longer. Maybe treatments will come that can "replace" a vaccine for 18 months, but if not, how will society survive with this coming back in the fall etc? Do another strict lockdown?RideRick said:
The theory in the Netherlands is dat if you let it grow slowly more and more people get infected and not 100% will die. So whoever is infected is most likely to be immune. Untill now we still have the science on our side. Not much different to Sweden except that we closed all bars and services which requires fysical contact. We cannot have a lockdown with soldiers marching in the street. Last time was 1940-1945 and since then we changed so hard as a country. Maybe to free of mind to some but militairy force is also not strong enough to march the streets. You need to invade us otherwise we will not accept it.Spiritual_Chaos said:
In what way is herd immunity a theory by the way?
So our goverment choose... Herd Immunity as a solution to the answer despice some experts would rather see us lockdowned.
The numbers are in our favor, but maybe we do not test enough.
That is the mayor problem, we don't test enough. With testing like South Korea you can search out those who are immune and those who aren't and those who are very infectious.
But nobody has the answer, untill now it is still not a Zombie breakout. If millions are dying i would be the first one to take these words back but even in Africa, India or China it is not killing people in millions as everybody is thinking right now. Alright,, the USA, Spain and Italy are hard strucked but not 100% of the country is striked by it.
In Sweden it would never be considered to put our military in the streets, it is defacto impossible to order the military to be used against our own citizens (Since the tragedy in Ådalen 1931 which @rgambs is now reading up on).
Speaking of South Korea, with them stopping it so effectively they should also have very little immunity in society (according to Swedish expert) which makes them start on zero with the same problem in the fall when the virus is expected to strike again.
Masstesting will come to see how much this has actually spread through our communities. How much immunity that exist in society. Then we can see if there will be a difference between e.g. South Korea and the Netherlands.
With spring now coming and the sun being out, I would think that further restrictions will come here in Sweden to keep this under control. A bigger enforcement on restaurants to keep patrons apart etc.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Countries around the world can still be regarded as "pulling it off".Lerxst1992 said:Spiritual_Chaos said:Prepare for the mother of all s**t storms if Sweden pulls this off
If Sweden, which has not locked down its economy and society, emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the true extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses
In a word: Sweden. What happens if they pull this off? What happens if it turns out that we could have coped with COVID-19 without collapsing entire sectors of the economy putting millions on the dole, and imposing some of the most draconian restrictions on civil liberties in living memory?
Sweden has not closed the bars. Shopping malls are open. Schools and companies are open too. There are some restrictions such as on gatherings of over 50 people. But, in comparison with most European countries, life in Sweden is relatively normal.
Right now, Sweden's death rate from coronavirus is 33 per million of the population. In France it is 83. In Italy it is 230. In Britain it is 43. In the Netherlands it is 78.
/.../What is interesting though, is that precisely because it is Sweden, the usual suspects in our politics who benefit from disillusionment with the establishment may find it hard to profit from this. The Swedish government is led by Stefan Loeven, a Social Democrat.
Sweden is practically a role model for mainstream, left of centre politics. If you're a European populist, it's going to be more than a little incongruous to start singing the praises of Sweden, of all countries.
Similarly in America. Donald Trump has, albeit reluctantly, broadly followed the lockdown policies we see across most of Europe. Unless he very quickly does a 180 degree turn (and don't rule that out) how can he profit from his usual disdain for the way things are done by the establishment?
That said, if this particular "Swedish model" wins the day, someone is going to get it in the neck. The question is, who?
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/7649/prepare_for_the_mother_of_all_s_t_storms_if_sweden_pulls_this_offCountries are not “pulling anything off.” NY metro is ground zero (again) because it is the definitive international city. People come and go from anywhere in the world to here. Y’all might recall weeks ago Jose was talking about how the Elmhurst Queens hospital was like a war zone. Why is that? Does elmhurst not know how to “pull it off.” No that has nothing to do with it. Elmhurst happens to have the second largest Chinatown in Queens. I'm willing to bet people came over from Wuhan to Queens. Given the massive density and immensely packed subway system that runs mostly underground, it was game over."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Let's emphasize a difference here, in e.g. Sweden (which people on here are bagging on regarding the response to the virus) - the government is basing their decisions and acting on the expertise of the Public Health Authority -- the Swedish madman model of having experts lead the charge basing actions on science instead of politics and loons (Trump) unproven ideas (remember that both Denmark and Norway went against their experts advice on closing schools and borders). Whether better or not than throwing a dart at the wall in isolated instances, 97 times out a 100 bet on science. I say.
***
Jared Kushner has coordinated distribution of medical supplies with Republican donors: report"When you ask about the inner circle, it is clear to me," Costa told MSNBC's "Morning Joe," "based on my reporting, that Peter Navarro, more than anyone now, whether it's on urging the president to take a position that's different than Dr. [Anthony] Fauci, or when it comes to the Defense Production Act, nudging corporations, sometimes pushing corporations to do what the White House wants, that Navarro is at the center.""Jared Kushner is there and he's really being a liaison to different donors, to different corporate allies of this administration, which has created confusion about the chain of command, about whether corporations should work through Jared, whether they should work through Vice President [Mike] Pence and the task force," he added.Navarro and other Trump advisers, including Rudy Giuliani, have been overriding medical experts on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine against the coronavirus, and Costa said the president's confidence in that unproven drug was not matched by science.
https://www.salon.com/2020/04/06/jared-kushner-has-coordinated-distribution-of-medical-supplies-with-republican-donors-report_partner/Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Kushner, Trump, Navarro, Giuliani...all massively corrupt morons.Spiritual_Chaos said:Let's emphasize a difference here, in e.g. Sweden (which people on here are bagging on regarding the response to the virus) - the government is basing their decisions and acting on the expertise of the Public Health Authority -- the Swedish madman model of having experts lead the charge basing actions on science instead of politics and loons (Trump) unproven ideas (remember that both Denmark and Norway went against their experts advice on closing schools and borders). Whether better or not than throwing a dart at the wall in isolated instances, 97 times out a 100 bet on science. I say.
***
Jared Kushner has coordinated distribution of medical supplies with Republican donors: report"When you ask about the inner circle, it is clear to me," Costa told MSNBC's "Morning Joe," "based on my reporting, that Peter Navarro, more than anyone now, whether it's on urging the president to take a position that's different than Dr. [Anthony] Fauci, or when it comes to the Defense Production Act, nudging corporations, sometimes pushing corporations to do what the White House wants, that Navarro is at the center.""Jared Kushner is there and he's really being a liaison to different donors, to different corporate allies of this administration, which has created confusion about the chain of command, about whether corporations should work through Jared, whether they should work through Vice President [Mike] Pence and the task force," he added.Navarro and other Trump advisers, including Rudy Giuliani, have been overriding medical experts on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine against the coronavirus, and Costa said the president's confidence in that unproven drug was not matched by science.
https://www.salon.com/2020/04/06/jared-kushner-has-coordinated-distribution-of-medical-supplies-with-republican-donors-report_partner/
The fact remains, social distancing to flatten the curve IS the advice of the vast majority of experts around the world. Sweden is an outlier, not because it listens to it's experts more, but because it's experts are offering very different opinions from the majority.
The "we listen to our experts, not political pressure" line is just marketing spin.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Sweden is advising social distancing. I don't know where you are getting your information from.rgambs said:
Kushner, Trump, Navarro, Giuliani...all massively corrupt morons.Spiritual_Chaos said:Let's emphasize a difference here, in e.g. Sweden (which people on here are bagging on regarding the response to the virus) - the government is basing their decisions and acting on the expertise of the Public Health Authority -- the Swedish madman model of having experts lead the charge basing actions on science instead of politics and loons (Trump) unproven ideas (remember that both Denmark and Norway went against their experts advice on closing schools and borders). Whether better or not than throwing a dart at the wall in isolated instances, 97 times out a 100 bet on science. I say.
***
Jared Kushner has coordinated distribution of medical supplies with Republican donors: report"When you ask about the inner circle, it is clear to me," Costa told MSNBC's "Morning Joe," "based on my reporting, that Peter Navarro, more than anyone now, whether it's on urging the president to take a position that's different than Dr. [Anthony] Fauci, or when it comes to the Defense Production Act, nudging corporations, sometimes pushing corporations to do what the White House wants, that Navarro is at the center.""Jared Kushner is there and he's really being a liaison to different donors, to different corporate allies of this administration, which has created confusion about the chain of command, about whether corporations should work through Jared, whether they should work through Vice President [Mike] Pence and the task force," he added.Navarro and other Trump advisers, including Rudy Giuliani, have been overriding medical experts on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine against the coronavirus, and Costa said the president's confidence in that unproven drug was not matched by science.
https://www.salon.com/2020/04/06/jared-kushner-has-coordinated-distribution-of-medical-supplies-with-republican-donors-report_partner/
The fact remains, social distancing to flatten the curve IS the advice of the vast majority of experts around the world. Sweden is an outlier, not because it listens to it's experts more, but because it's experts are offering very different opinions from the majority.
The "we listen to our experts, not political pressure" line is just marketing spin."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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