Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Quoted from the article, which I read last night after first being "alarmed" by the sensationalized headline "Doctors are sounding the alarm":
"Now for the first time, three large U.S. medical centers are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon. The numbers are small, only a few dozen per location, but they provide new insights into what the virus does to our bodies."
A few dozen x 3 medical centers = approximately 36 cases of Co-Vid related strokes in US / approximately 1 million reported US cases to-date = AN ALARM???
I'm done with the fear mongering in the newspapers, on TV, on social media. It's a farce.
Quoted from the article, which I read last night after first being "alarmed" by the sensationalized headline "Doctors are sounding the alarm":
"Now for the first time, three large U.S. medical centers are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon. The numbers are small, only a few dozen per location, but they provide new insights into what the virus does to our bodies."
A few dozen x 3 medical centers = approximately 36 cases of Co-Vid related strokes in US / approximately 1 million reported US cases to-date = AN ALARM???
I'm done with the fear mongering in the newspapers, on TV, on social media. It's a farce.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Quoted from the article, which I read last night after first being "alarmed" by the sensationalized headline "Doctors are sounding the alarm":
"Now for the first time, three large U.S. medical centers are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon. The numbers are small, only a few dozen per location, but they provide new insights into what the virus does to our bodies."
A few dozen x 3 medical centers = approximately 36 cases of Co-Vid related strokes in US / approximately 1 million reported US cases to-date = AN ALARM???
I'm done with the fear mongering in the newspapers, on TV, on social media. It's a farce.
That sounds familiar, I see it on FB all the time and I heard/saw it all the time in late February/early March. You don't want to be lumped in with that basket of deplorables.
Quoted from the article, which I read last night after first being "alarmed" by the sensationalized headline "Doctors are sounding the alarm":
"Now for the first time, three large U.S. medical centers are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon. The numbers are small, only a few dozen per location, but they provide new insights into what the virus does to our bodies."
A few dozen x 3 medical centers = approximately 36 cases of Co-Vid related strokes in US / approximately 1 million reported US cases to-date = AN ALARM???
I'm done with the fear mongering in the newspapers, on TV, on social media. It's a farce.
You’re reading that wrong. A few dozen cases in their three sites, not in the US as a whole. Actual number are uncertain but they are definitely not referring to the total covid cases.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Quoted from the article, which I read last night after first being "alarmed" by the sensationalized headline "Doctors are sounding the alarm":
"Now for the first time, three large U.S. medical centers are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon. The numbers are small, only a few dozen per location, but they provide new insights into what the virus does to our bodies."
A few dozen x 3 medical centers = approximately 36 cases of Co-Vid related strokes in US / approximately 1 million reported US cases to-date = AN ALARM???
I'm done with the fear mongering in the newspapers, on TV, on social media. It's a farce.
NYS Dept Health provides very detailed comorbidity stats. The worst comirbidity covid group by far is hypertension with about 57% of covid victims also suffering from it. Strokes are a much lower at about 7%. So strokes are not getting a lot of media attention until now.
What this stat is telling us is an unusual amount of immune systems are working overtime to fight the virus, and a side effect of that could be a stroke. Young people could be at home asymptomatic or mild symptoms because their immune systems are fighting hard. But fighting hard brings risk.
Looking at the NYS data, about 2% of stroke/covid victims are under 45. So the numbers seem to make sense in a covid world. But to doctors used to working in a normal world, seeing 36 stoke victims under 45 over a few weeks is probably something they have never before seen, so to them it is alarming.
The only thing that's sensationalist here is your reaction. It's solid reporting. This is valuable information about counter-intuitive ways the virus can affect the body, and a reminder that we know vanishingly little.
COVID-19 is not just a lung disease--because of course it isn't, the cell receptor it utilizes occurs throughout the body--and we need to get a handle on that.
EDIT:
The controversial, oft-cited Stanford antibody study that showed 50-85x more infections will not survive peer review:
Earlier attempts to determine who were infected have failed in both directions: the sick have been missed while others have received false positive answers.
Now a Swedish research group may be on the way to solving the problems.
Professor Sophia Hober at the Royal Institute of Technology, KTH, together with specialist physician Charlotte Thålin, leads a study of 500 employees at Danderyds hospital. All have submitted blood samples and completed surveys and after a third of the antibody tests have been analyzed, the method seems to have high accuracy.
- In the tests we have done so far, the answer has been right on everyone. It is one hundred percent in both directions, both sensitivity and specificity. As a researcher, they say that one hundred percent does not exist, but so far the result is very good, says Sophia Hober.
She believes the positive result is because the test not only used a protein from the virus but used many variants at the same time.
/.../
Professor Sophia Hober hopes that the test can be sent to emergency hospitals, elderly care and primary care soon.
- It feels absolutely fantastic. We had a different input than most because we wanted to measure many proteins, so we expected good data. But it is still a little surprising that it works so well, says Hober.
Do the results so far show that more than 2-3 percent have been infected?
- I haven't seen the Chinese study, but what we can see in our little Danderyd study shows much higher than that.
Have the people who felt sickest also had the most antibodies?
- It is too early to answer, but a man who had not felt ill had very many antibodies while someone who had been ill did not have it. It is very anecdotal, we do not yet know if the degree of serious illness is linked to the amount of antibodies.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Climate science deniers at forefront of downplaying coronavirus pandemic
Fringe climate science deniers who spread online disinformation are
now actively downplaying the seriousness of the Covid-19 pandemic,
according to a new analysis.
DeSmog, a blog and organization that tracks the culprits behind false
information about the climate crisis, identified about 70 individuals
and groups questioning the deadliness of the coronavirus and pushing for
an end to social distancing, along with protesters who have been encouraged by Donald Trump.
From the conservative conspiracy theorist Alex Jones to the US-based
Heartland Institute and UK-based James Delingpole, the review concludes
that the same influencers trying to make the public question the
severity of global heating are also discounting the science surrounding
the coronavirus.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
HERE I WAS WATCHING SOME SWEDISH MORNING SHOW TO CATCH AN INTERVIEW WITH SWEDISH STATE EPIDEMIOLOGIST ANDERS TEGNELL -- AND WHO SHOWED UP AFTERWARDS OUT OF NOWHERE LIKE A SUPERDUPER BONUS!?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
In, the beginning of April - 3,9 billion people were put in some type of lockdown measures. 92 countries. Now they are beginning to lighten these restrictions. What do you think of this phase in the pandemic?
Giesecke: I don't think you can keep these lockdowns going. Not in a democratic country. You can in China. But you should never compare yourself to China. In my view, a lockdown is pushing the problems forward. Obviously you are protected by the lockdown, if you are isolated home alone you will not get sick but the ones who are to be sick, will be sick later - because at some time you will lift the restrictions like you are pointing out. And getting closer to the Swedish way. Our nordic neighbours are opening their schools, In Austria and Germany shops are opening up again and they are contemplating opening the schools back up in Germany.
And what I find so fascinating with this lockdown - half the worlds population affected and there is NO COUNTRY that has thought about how to exit this lockdown strategy. No country. No one has given it a thought. It is politicians who has decided on these lockdown measures and I'm here thinking "So... when will you end it? If you are closing schools now. When will they be open, what criteria will you go by?" And no one anywhere has even thought about it. (pause) "Exit Strategy" they call it.
But I guess, that state epidemiologists or similiar functions in countries are talking with each other? Giesecke: Yes. Now they have started. (sarcastic) So, now is the time for that.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Quoted from the article, which I read last night after first being "alarmed" by the sensationalized headline "Doctors are sounding the alarm":
"Now for the first time, three large U.S. medical centers are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon. The numbers are small, only a few dozen per location, but they provide new insights into what the virus does to our bodies."
A few dozen x 3 medical centers = approximately 36 cases of Co-Vid related strokes in US / approximately 1 million reported US cases to-date = AN ALARM???
I'm done with the fear mongering in the newspapers, on TV, on social media. It's a farce.
Yes, I did: "the truth will never be know because few autopsies were conducted." I've also read articles where doctors in other areas of specialty are concerned that people are NOT going to the hospital when they experience symptoms of heart attacks and strokes because they're afraid to go to the hospital. So it could be those "four times as many people dying at home," just died at home. "The truth will never be known."
What I think is that lay people -- like us -- trying to figure this out in real time from our couch by reading all the click bait headlines out there are setting ourselves up for confusion, fear, and false starts.
Remember HIV in 1981? We all thought it was gay disease. A decade later, when Magic Johnson got it, we all ran like mad to the clinics to get tested. We started wearing condoms. Thank God there was a reliable test by the time we wanted one. It took YEARS for there to be a reliable HIV test. It took DECADES for the treatments that are now keeping people alive until old age. We are SIX MONTHS into this virus. We know next to nothing for sure, yet, except that the vast majority of known cases are mild and can be self-treated at home. Terrible for all those people with the serious cases, sure -- but how many of those stroke incidents were due to pre-existing conditions? We don't know an answer to that. Most people in the world don't even know they have high blood pressure, for goodness sakes, because there are no symptoms for it. How many of those stroked out because they had a high lipid count and didn't know it? Heart disease is called "a silent killer" for a reason.
I'm not a freaking doctor or a scientist, so I'm not going to sit in my arm chair and pretend I know anything for sure about his virus, nor am I going to stop questioning basic math when I read anecdotal reports in the Washington Post -- a paper I've read almost everyday since puberty, btw. Not knocking the post in general. Just questioning how "alarming" it is to see that some people with CoVid are having heart complications -- because they probably already had heart problems.
What I think is that lay people -- like us -- trying to figure this out in real time from our couch by reading all the click bait headlines out there are setting ourselves up for confusion, fear, and false starts.
Remember HIV in 1981? We all thought it was gay disease. A decade later, when Magic Johnson got it, we all ran like mad to the clinics to get tested. We started wearing condoms. Thank God there was a reliable test by the time we wanted one. It took YEARS for there to be a reliable HIV test. It took DECADES for the treatments that are now keeping people alive until old age. We are SIX MONTHS into this virus. We know next to nothing for sure, yet, except that the vast majority of known cases are mild and can be self-treated at home. Terrible for all those people with the serious cases, sure -- but how many of those stroke incidents were due to pre-existing conditions? We don't know an answer to that. Most people in the world don't even know they have high blood pressure, for goodness sakes, because there are no symptoms for it. How many of those stroked out because they had a high lipid count and didn't know it? Heart disease is called "a silent killer" for a reason.
I'm not a freaking doctor or a scientist, so I'm not going to sit in my arm chair and pretend I know anything for sure about his virus, nor am I going to stop questioning basic math when I read anecdotal reports in the Washington Post -- a paper I've read almost everyday since puberty, btw. Not knocking the post in general. Just questioning how "alarming" it is to see that some people with CoVid are having heart complications -- because they probably already had heart problems.
It’s actually your math that is faulty in your example.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
What I think is that lay people -- like us -- trying to figure this out in real time from our couch by reading all the click bait headlines out there are setting ourselves up for confusion, fear, and false starts.
Remember HIV in 1981? We all thought it was gay disease. A decade later, when Magic Johnson got it, we all ran like mad to the clinics to get tested. We started wearing condoms. Thank God there was a reliable test by the time we wanted one. It took YEARS for there to be a reliable HIV test. It took DECADES for the treatments that are now keeping people alive until old age. We are SIX MONTHS into this virus. We know next to nothing for sure, yet, except that the vast majority of known cases are mild and can be self-treated at home. Terrible for all those people with the serious cases, sure -- but how many of those stroke incidents were due to pre-existing conditions? We don't know an answer to that. Most people in the world don't even know they have high blood pressure, for goodness sakes, because there are no symptoms for it. How many of those stroked out because they had a high lipid count and didn't know it? Heart disease is called "a silent killer" for a reason.
I'm not a freaking doctor or a scientist, so I'm not going to sit in my arm chair and pretend I know anything for sure about his virus, nor am I going to stop questioning basic math when I read anecdotal reports in the Washington Post -- a paper I've read almost everyday since puberty, btw. Not knocking the post in general. Just questioning how "alarming" it is to see that some people with CoVid are having heart complications -- because they probably already had heart problems.
I pointed out earlier NY has excellent stats on covid comorbidity. It takes some digging but the answers are clear. The first step is acknowledging 99% of US covid deaths were since March 22, about one months time.
about 9000 NYS victims also had hypertension, which is the number one comorbidity affliction with covid.
Typically 225 people die per month in NY from hypertension
9000 vs 225
Although comorbidity is certainly an issue, those numbers point clearly as covid being the dominant factor in the deaths.
In, the beginning of April - 3,9 billion people were put in some type of lockdown measures. 92 countries. Now they are beginning to lighten these restrictions. What do you think of this phase in the pandemic?
Giesecke: I don't think you can keep these lockdowns going. Not in a democratic country. You can in China. But you should never compare yourself to China. In my view, a lockdown is pushing the problems forward. Obviously you are protected by the lockdown, if you are isolated home alone you will not get sick but the ones who are to be sick, will be sick later - because at some time you will lift the restrictions like you are pointing out. And getting closer to the Swedish way. Our nordic neighbours are opening their schools, In Austria and Germany shops are opening up again and they are contemplating opening the schools back up in Germany.
And what I find so fascinating with this lockdown - half the worlds population affected and there is NO COUNTRY that has thought about how to exit this lockdown strategy. No country. No one has given it a thought. It is politicians who has decided on these lockdown measures and I'm here thinking "So... when will you end it? If you are closing schools now. When will they be open, what criteria will you go by?" And no one anywhere has even thought about it. (pause) "Exit Strategy" they call it.
But I guess, that state epidemiologists or similiar functions in countries are talking with each other? Giesecke: Yes. Now they have started. (sarcastic) So, now is the time for that.
He gets worse every day. Pushing the problem forward was always the goal, THAT'S WHAT FLATTEN THE CURVE MEANS, YOU SWEDISH MEATBALL! (Giesecke, not you)
No one anywhere has thought about the exit strategy? What a load of bullshit lol He doesn't seem to be as much concerned with truth as he does his bitter little agenda of vindicating his own position.
In, the beginning of April - 3,9 billion people were put in some type of lockdown measures. 92 countries. Now they are beginning to lighten these restrictions. What do you think of this phase in the pandemic?
Giesecke: I don't think you can keep these lockdowns going. Not in a democratic country. You can in China. But you should never compare yourself to China. In my view, a lockdown is pushing the problems forward. Obviously you are protected by the lockdown, if you are isolated home alone you will not get sick but the ones who are to be sick, will be sick later - because at some time you will lift the restrictions like you are pointing out. And getting closer to the Swedish way. Our nordic neighbours are opening their schools, In Austria and Germany shops are opening up again and they are contemplating opening the schools back up in Germany.
And what I find so fascinating with this lockdown - half the worlds population affected and there is NO COUNTRY that has thought about how to exit this lockdown strategy. No country. No one has given it a thought. It is politicians who has decided on these lockdown measures and I'm here thinking "So... when will you end it? If you are closing schools now. When will they be open, what criteria will you go by?" And no one anywhere has even thought about it. (pause) "Exit Strategy" they call it.
But I guess, that state epidemiologists or similiar functions in countries are talking with each other? Giesecke: Yes. Now they have started. (sarcastic) So, now is the time for that.
He gets worse every day. Pushing the problem forward was always the goal, THAT'S WHAT FLATTEN THE CURVE MEANS, YOU SWEDISH MEATBALL! (Giesecke, not you)
No one anywhere has thought about the exit strategy? What a load of bullshit lol He doesn't seem to be as much concerned with truth as he does his bitter little agenda of vindicating his own position.
I will not touch on your attempts of a character assassination of a fine man,
but I will touch on your errors -- "Flatten the curve" means making the curves peak lower by instead making the curve longer. The problem is digested bitesize at a slower tempo, but not all eaten later. To make healthcare cope. Like every country is doing. Including the US. Including Sweden. So his "pushing the problem forward" =/= "flattening the curve" which he has never said countries should not do. Sweden is only eating bigger sizes because our healthcare is considered being able to sustain it. And dealing with that problem now, and not in a few months.
His "pushing the problem forward" speaks of it being inevitable for people to die, if not now then later. And so, if you put a = between his "pushing the problem forward" and your "flatten the curve" then... why this criticism of Sweden as long as our health care can cope? Because, then you agree with him that the dead (problem) we see in Sweden now you will only see later.
It being inevitable.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Comments
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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"Now for the first time, three large U.S. medical centers are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon. The numbers are small, only a few dozen per location, but they provide new insights into what the virus does to our bodies."
A few dozen x 3 medical centers = approximately 36 cases of Co-Vid related strokes in US / approximately 1 million reported US cases to-date = AN ALARM???
I'm done with the fear mongering in the newspapers, on TV, on social media. It's a farce.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
You don't want to be lumped in with that basket of deplorables.
What this stat is telling us is an unusual amount of immune systems are working overtime to fight the virus, and a side effect of that could be a stroke. Young people could be at home asymptomatic or mild symptoms because their immune systems are fighting hard. But fighting hard brings risk.
Looking at the NYS data, about 2% of stroke/covid victims are under 45. So the numbers seem to make sense in a covid world. But to doctors used to working in a normal world, seeing 36 stoke victims under 45 over a few weeks is probably something they have never before seen, so to them it is alarming.
https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n&%3Amobile=true
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
Earlier attempts to determine who were infected have failed in both directions: the sick have been missed while others have received false positive answers.
/.../
Climate science deniers at forefront of downplaying coronavirus pandemic
Fringe climate science deniers who spread online disinformation are now actively downplaying the seriousness of the Covid-19 pandemic, according to a new analysis.
The 'anti-lockdown' protests are about more than just quarantines
DeSmog, a blog and organization that tracks the culprits behind false information about the climate crisis, identified about 70 individuals and groups questioning the deadliness of the coronavirus and pushing for an end to social distancing, along with protesters who have been encouraged by Donald Trump.
From the conservative conspiracy theorist Alex Jones to the US-based Heartland Institute and UK-based James Delingpole, the review concludes that the same influencers trying to make the public question the severity of global heating are also discounting the science surrounding the coronavirus.
In, the beginning of April - 3,9 billion people were put in some type of lockdown measures. 92 countries. Now they are beginning to lighten these restrictions. What do you think of this phase in the pandemic?
Giesecke: I don't think you can keep these lockdowns going. Not in a democratic country. You can in China. But you should never compare yourself to China. In my view, a lockdown is pushing the problems forward. Obviously you are protected by the lockdown, if you are isolated home alone you will not get sick but the ones who are to be sick, will be sick later - because at some time you will lift the restrictions like you are pointing out. And getting closer to the Swedish way. Our nordic neighbours are opening their schools, In Austria and Germany shops are opening up again and they are contemplating opening the schools back up in Germany.
And what I find so fascinating with this lockdown - half the worlds population affected and there is NO COUNTRY that has thought about how to exit this lockdown strategy. No country. No one has given it a thought. It is politicians who has decided on these lockdown measures and I'm here thinking "So... when will you end it? If you are closing schools now. When will they be open, what criteria will you go by?" And no one anywhere has even thought about it. (pause) "Exit Strategy" they call it.
But I guess, that state epidemiologists or similiar functions in countries are talking with each other?
Giesecke: Yes. Now they have started. (sarcastic) So, now is the time for that.
Why Sweden rejected a coronavirus lockdown - BBC Newsnight
https://youtu.be/pzzVxw5FyYs
Remember HIV in 1981? We all thought it was gay disease. A decade later, when Magic Johnson got it, we all ran like mad to the clinics to get tested. We started wearing condoms. Thank God there was a reliable test by the time we wanted one. It took YEARS for there to be a reliable HIV test. It took DECADES for the treatments that are now keeping people alive until old age. We are SIX MONTHS into this virus. We know next to nothing for sure, yet, except that the vast majority of known cases are mild and can be self-treated at home. Terrible for all those people with the serious cases, sure -- but how many of those stroke incidents were due to pre-existing conditions? We don't know an answer to that. Most people in the world don't even know they have high blood pressure, for goodness sakes, because there are no symptoms for it. How many of those stroked out because they had a high lipid count and didn't know it? Heart disease is called "a silent killer" for a reason.
I'm not a freaking doctor or a scientist, so I'm not going to sit in my arm chair and pretend I know anything for sure about his virus, nor am I going to stop questioning basic math when I read anecdotal reports in the Washington Post -- a paper I've read almost everyday since puberty, btw. Not knocking the post in general. Just questioning how "alarming" it is to see that some people with CoVid are having heart complications -- because they probably already had heart problems.
about 9000 NYS victims also had hypertension, which is the number one comorbidity affliction with covid.
9000 vs 225
Although comorbidity is certainly an issue, those numbers point clearly as covid being the dominant factor in the deaths.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
Anyone dumb enough to actually drink bleach probably won’t understand that message with the misplaced commas anyway.
Pushing the problem forward was always the goal, THAT'S WHAT FLATTEN THE CURVE MEANS, YOU SWEDISH MEATBALL! (Giesecke, not you)
No one anywhere has thought about the exit strategy? What a load of bullshit lol
He doesn't seem to be as much concerned with truth as he does his bitter little agenda of vindicating his own position.
but I will touch on your errors -- "Flatten the curve" means making the curves peak lower by instead making the curve longer. The problem is digested bitesize at a slower tempo, but not all eaten later. To make healthcare cope. Like every country is doing. Including the US. Including Sweden. So his "pushing the problem forward" =/= "flattening the curve" which he has never said countries should not do. Sweden is only eating bigger sizes because our healthcare is considered being able to sustain it. And dealing with that problem now, and not in a few months.
His "pushing the problem forward" speaks of it being inevitable for people to die, if not now then later. And so, if you put a = between his "pushing the problem forward" and your "flatten the curve" then... why this criticism of Sweden as long as our health care can cope? Because, then you agree with him that the dead (problem) we see in Sweden now you will only see later.
It being inevitable.