The coronavirus

myoung321

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

There certainly are some issues on Bernie's platform that make a lot of sense.  I wish he coulda focused on them instead of free college for all, health care for illegal immigrants, etc.  And I wish Biden would have adopted the good ones and not the ones he did already.

I'm no bernie fan for how he and his supporters conduct themselves, but no reason not to listen to  and adopt what actually makes sense.

All "hourly" employees? Not just Corporate owned stores? which I believe is in the less than 5% range. The rest are franchises. 

F Me In The Brain

gimmesometruth27 said:

i was talking with a surgeon who is the head of the medical board at one of my accounts. he is a former army surgeon. he believes that the only way to get a handle on this thing is to mobilize the military. he suggests building field hospitals on military bases. he said most of the needed supplies like tents are already at the bases. he said that the bases have a ton of space for such a field hospital. he specifically suggested ft. leonard wood in missouri, to isolate and treat those missourians that have the virus. he said that with the military there is typically less red tape and this can be done so much faster at military bases rather than trying to convert hospitals to covid specific treatment and screening facilities. he communicated the idea much better than i am communicating, but i am paraphrasing. what does everyone think about this idea?

I am for it. 

Gern Blansten

gimmesometruth27 said:

i was talking with a surgeon who is the head of the medical board at one of my accounts. he is a former army surgeon. he believes that the only way to get a handle on this thing is to mobilize the military. he suggests building field hospitals on military bases. he said most of the needed supplies like tents are already at the bases. he said that the bases have a ton of space for such a field hospital. he specifically suggested ft. leonard wood in missouri, to isolate and treat those missourians that have the virus. he said that with the military there is typically less red tape and this can be done so much faster at military bases rather than trying to convert hospitals to covid specific treatment and screening facilities. he communicated the idea much better than i am communicating, but i am paraphrasing. what does everyone think about this idea?

I picture a tent hospital being destroyed by a tornado

gimmesometruth27

tempo_n_groove said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i was talking with a surgeon who is the head of the medical board at one of my accounts. he is a former army surgeon. he believes that the only way to get a handle on this thing is to mobilize the military. he suggests building field hospitals on military bases. he said most of the needed supplies like tents are already at the bases. he said that the bases have a ton of space for such a field hospital. he specifically suggested ft. leonard wood in missouri, to isolate and treat those missourians that have the virus. he said that with the military there is typically less red tape and this can be done so much faster at military bases rather than trying to convert hospitals to covid specific treatment and screening facilities. he communicated the idea much better than i am communicating, but i am paraphrasing. what does everyone think about this idea?

People would be scared at first but I like the idea.  Very Hollywood sounding.

now that you mention it, this is true, haha

gimmesometruth27

Gern Blansten said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i was talking with a surgeon who is the head of the medical board at one of my accounts. he is a former army surgeon. he believes that the only way to get a handle on this thing is to mobilize the military. he suggests building field hospitals on military bases. he said most of the needed supplies like tents are already at the bases. he said that the bases have a ton of space for such a field hospital. he specifically suggested ft. leonard wood in missouri, to isolate and treat those missourians that have the virus. he said that with the military there is typically less red tape and this can be done so much faster at military bases rather than trying to convert hospitals to covid specific treatment and screening facilities. he communicated the idea much better than i am communicating, but i am paraphrasing. what does everyone think about this idea?

I picture a tent hospital being destroyed by a tornado

yeah true, especially in MO.

bbiggs

F Me In The Brain said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i was talking with a surgeon who is the head of the medical board at one of my accounts. he is a former army surgeon. he believes that the only way to get a handle on this thing is to mobilize the military. he suggests building field hospitals on military bases. he said most of the needed supplies like tents are already at the bases. he said that the bases have a ton of space for such a field hospital. he specifically suggested ft. leonard wood in missouri, to isolate and treat those missourians that have the virus. he said that with the military there is typically less red tape and this can be done so much faster at military bases rather than trying to convert hospitals to covid specific treatment and screening facilities. he communicated the idea much better than i am communicating, but i am paraphrasing. what does everyone think about this idea?

I am for it. 

+1.  I especially like the idea of cutting out red tape for efficiency.

brianlux

I post a link to this earlier but I thin the who thing is worth pasting here.  Michael Osterholm's work is great and I think this reccent article best sums up what we are presently up against and I'm curious as to what you all think about this:

Facing covid-19 reality: A national lockdown is no cure

Michael T. Osterholm is regents professor and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. Mark Olshaker is a writer and documentary filmmaker. They are the authors of “Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs.”

Covid-19 will go away eventually in one of two ways. Either we will develop a vaccine to prevent it, or the virus will burn itself out as the spread of infection comes to confer a form of herd immunity on the population. Neither of those possibilities will occur quickly.

It is time to face reality. We urgently need a unified national strategy, one informed by the best science about stopping diseases like covid-19 and from virus control efforts in China, Singapore and Hong Kong, as well as realistic projections of the human and economic toll of any option we pursue. Our way of life cannot survive an indefinite series of short-term action plans.

We have to ask what we hope to accomplish with limited self-quarantines and shelter-in-place directives. Clearly, as one objective, we seek to “flatten the curve” in an effort to keep our already overburdened health-care system from being overrun. The ability of our hospitals to continue providing care to a flood of covid-19 patients, while still treating the other patients they normally have, all the while protecting health-care professionals, will be a major factor in reducing bad outcomes for victims of the coronavirus and other illnesses as well.

But how do we actually accomplish this? What happens after a several-week moratorium on normal activity? Does the president, governor or mayor declare another? While California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) has made a courageous move by locking down his state, how long can 40 million California residents be kept at home? And will it be long enough to make a significant difference?

China and Italy have imposed near-draconian lockdowns in an effort to halt the spread of covid-19. But how and when will these two “test” nations return to normal life? And when they do, will there be a major second wave of cases? If that happens, should they simply “rinse and repeat”?

As a country, with momentum building for a possible national shutdown directive, we are on the verge of ringing a giant bell that we don’t know how to un-ring.

Yet we don’t, for example, have good data on the real impact of closing public and private K-12 schools on the spread of covid-19. Hong Kong and Singapore, advanced city-states that experienced the outbreak early, both attempted to respond quickly and efficiently. Hong Kong closed schools; Singapore did not, and there was hardly any difference in the rate of transmission. The second-order effect of shutting schools is that hardest hit will be those least able to afford to miss work to care for homebound children. And what of our health professionals with children? Add to that firefighters, police officers, utility workers, delivery drivers and other essential personnel, and the magnitude of the problem is clear.

The Imperial College of London has produced a sobering study on possible covid-19 strategies. Three scenarios compare the outcomes of flattening the curve (mitigation), suppression (long-term quarantine) and letting the virus take its natural course (doing nothing), modeling the levels of disease and death for each course. The stark takeaway: Significantly reducing the number of serious illnesses and deaths would require a near-total lockdown until an effective vaccine is available, probably at least 18 months from now.

Consider the effect of shutting down offices, schools, transportation systems, restaurants, hotels, stores, theaters, concert halls, sporting events and other venues indefinitely and leaving all of their workers unemployed and on the public dole. The likely result would be not just a depression but a complete economic breakdown, with countless permanently lost jobs, long before a vaccine is ready or natural immunity takes hold. We can’t have everyone stay home and still produce and distribute the basics needed to sustain life and fight the disease.

We are in uncharted territory. But the best alternative will probably entail letting those at low risk for serious disease continue to work, keep business and manufacturing operating, and “run” society, while at the same time advising higher-risk individuals to protect themselves through physical distancing and ramping up our health-care capacity as aggressively as possible. With this battle plan, we could gradually build up immunity without destroying the financial structure on which our lives are based.

Very soon, we may have to acknowledge that attempting to stretch out cases in the hopes of keeping the curve reasonably flat is unworkable. Then, as we wait for either our scientific or natural redeemer to come, we can start trying to put things as back to normal as we can — doing our best to protect those at high risk, but acknowledging that people will get sick, some will die, and our health-care system is going to be overrun to a great extent no matter what we do.

There is no black-or-white option here. We will have to figure out what shade of gray we can accept and apply. We will get through this, but hard and painful choices are inescapable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/21/facing-covid-19-reality-national-lockdown-is-no-cure/

gimmesometruth27

bbiggs said:

F Me In The Brain said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i was talking with a surgeon who is the head of the medical board at one of my accounts. he is a former army surgeon. he believes that the only way to get a handle on this thing is to mobilize the military. he suggests building field hospitals on military bases. he said most of the needed supplies like tents are already at the bases. he said that the bases have a ton of space for such a field hospital. he specifically suggested ft. leonard wood in missouri, to isolate and treat those missourians that have the virus. he said that with the military there is typically less red tape and this can be done so much faster at military bases rather than trying to convert hospitals to covid specific treatment and screening facilities. he communicated the idea much better than i am communicating, but i am paraphrasing. what does everyone think about this idea?

I am for it. 

+1.  I especially like the idea of cutting out red tape for efficiency.

me too. let's keep the politics out of it because it only slows it down. if we can put these centers in remote areas like military bases it means that we would not have to evacuate patients that are inpatient for other reasons at busy metropolitan hospitals. let's use the military and have them use helicopters to transport the sick to the field hospitals. it will be faster than via ambulance and will be less taxing on the metropolitan EMS services.

mcgruff10

gimmesometruth27 said:

i was talking with a surgeon who is the head of the medical board at one of my accounts. he is a former army surgeon. he believes that the only way to get a handle on this thing is to mobilize the military. he suggests building field hospitals on military bases. he said most of the needed supplies like tents are already at the bases. he said that the bases have a ton of space for such a field hospital. he specifically suggested ft. leonard wood in missouri, to isolate and treat those missourians that have the virus. he said that with the military there is typically less red tape and this can be done so much faster at military bases rather than trying to convert hospitals to covid specific treatment and screening facilities. he communicated the idea much better than i am communicating, but i am paraphrasing. what does everyone think about this idea?

excellent idea!

F Me In The Brain

Brian, I liked him on Rogan and he seems to make good sense there.
If only some of those things could happen - crazy times.

bbiggs

^ Brian, my honest takeaway to the article is that we are fucked in one way or another for the next year and a half.  On one hand it is the health crisis aspect.  On the other hand it is the economic fallout aspect.  They'll both be present on some level.

DewieCox

Fully funded by the military budget?

Surely they could find sturdier venues than tents where that’s a concern.

I agree, it feels a little spooky but a huge impact of the efficiency I would imagine. 

Spunkie

Spiritual_Chaos said:

When is the time to work from home... I'm still going to the office.. .work better here... it's a 10 min walk, so don't need to cram into a subway or bus... but if the numbers are starting to rise in Sweden like they are saying...

Better to err on the side of caution.
Health > Economy 

If you were mine, you woulda been chained to the bedpost by now.

Spunkie

GIMME, Thanks for sharing some potential solutions. I love their ability to act quicker.

brianlux

F Me In The Brain said:

Brian, I liked him on Rogan and he seems to make good sense there.
If only some of those things could happen - crazy times.

Yeah, that Rogan interview was excellent.

bbiggs said:

^ Brian, my honest takeaway to the article is that we are fucked in one way or another for the next year and a half.  On one hand it is the health crisis aspect.  On the other hand it is the economic fallout aspect.  They'll both be present on some level.

I'm more concerned about health issues than economic issues, b, but that fact is, we can't change overnight how we procure the things that keep us going- our food, water, clothing, housing, medicine.  We can't have everyone stop working for 18 months and expect people to survive.  I don't listen to what Trump says because... well, for obvious reasons, haha!... so I'm more interested in the science approach, and I think Osterholm is one of the best experts on that level.  So yeah, I think you're right, I think the reality is that this situation is fucked not matter what we do.  But I think we have to remember that most of us will get through this, that this virus will end and we will move on.  Hopefully we will learn enough from this to not lessen the chances of something like this happening again. 

brianlux

Check out this guy, lol!

https://digg.com/2020/trump-impression-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR3ys214TLdGfbu0McPqbG18SqIG0B3iYFwLrJ67VjvX1YU7oUNEGRou8rE

23scidoo

The question was ''What do we do now?''..
the answer is from Nick Cave..

The Red Hand Files has always been a space in which I could offer dubious existential notions, religious meditations, unsound advice, millennial senilities and general annoyances, while hopefully simultaneously extending a little human kindness and compassion. However, these sorts of ruminations came from a more privileged and fortunate time, when we had the oxygen to muse and to play. Things have changed, we are faced with a common enemy — impartial, unfeeling and of immeasurable magnitude — and it is no longer a time for abstractions. Now is the time to be cautious with our words, our opinions.

A friend called our new world ‘a ghost ship’ — and maybe she is right. She has recently lost someone dear to her and recognises acutely the premonitory feeling of a world about to be shattered — and that we will need to put ourselves back together again, not only personally, but societally. In time we will be given the opportunity to either contract around the old version of ourselves and our world — insular, self-interested and tribalistic — or understand the connectedness and commonality of all humans, everywhere. In isolation, we will be presented with our essence — of what we are personally and what we are as a society. We will be asked to decide what we want to preserve about our world and ourselves, and what we want to discard.

Eventually these questions will become of acute significance, but they are not for now. Now is a time to listen to those in more informed positions and to follow instructions, as difficult as that may be, as we step into the unprecedented unknowable. We should be careful about the noises we make — especially those with a public voice — and should not pretend to know what we do not. From within the clamour and tonnage of information and misinformation, of opinions and counter-opinions, of blame-games and grim prophecy and the most panic-inducing version of ‘Imagine’ ever recorded, emerges a simple message — wash your hands and (if you can) stay at home.

Love, Nick

F Me In The Brain

brianlux said:

Check out this guy, lol!

https://digg.com/2020/trump-impression-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR3ys214TLdGfbu0McPqbG18SqIG0B3iYFwLrJ67VjvX1YU7oUNEGRou8rE

Thanks for that, incredible.  The "perfect health" part was the best, for me. 

FiveBelow

tempo_n_groove said:

Very clever!

Leathe?ma?

 Keep your distance!