The coronavirus

mcgruff10

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

I’m not very understanding on the economics of ventilator availability. Are there even 30,000 ventilators available at this point?

Did we say that during world war 2? Too bad we dont have tanks nor planes? Was that our approach? No. We built them. Fast.

Go ahead and google US WW2 deaths vs what can happen if the covid crisis continues to be mismanaged and false logic continues.

The numbers should shock everyone. There is a chance this event is worse than a world war for Americans. 

But hey, let Cuomo figure it out on his own. Makes perfect sense. Thanks trump

Man you overreact quite regularly. I was just asking what is the reality of getting 30000 ventilators. Nothing partisan. No blaming. Just what is the necessary logistics of getting 30,000 ventilators? If they aren’t available who can make them?  And no this isn’t WW2 

Your comment was reminiscent of what Trump said, I'm sure that was not your intent. “Are there even.” No, of course not. That’s why we need emergency action, not a govt more worried about bailing out big business first. Trump said yesterday let cuomo figure it out. Would that piss you off if you were at risk?

 NY is doubling cases almost every other day, this has the potential to get very bad. For the record, WW2 total US deaths were around 400,000. It’s not out of the question this could be worse, especially if there are multiple waves. If you think that’s an overreaction, I think you are not being realistic about the facts in this crisis.

We dragged our feet for two weeks and probably mass contaminated a metropolitan area with about 25 million. Now Trump is dragging his feet again, about ventilators. Of course there aren’t 30,000 extra in a warehouse, but we need quick decisive action. Like in WW2, which had the added problem of the majority of the labor pool getting drafted to quickly produce needed equipment.

The govt moved in two days to bail out the corporations. Good thing we saved the companies quickly, because if companies don’t get enough oxygen into its balance sheet, they will code out immediately. But Preventing mass contamination, fail. Getting or producing enough ventilators in time to save lives, looks like that’s not a priority for trump. 

World War Two was a literal war with people bombing and shooting and gassing each other for 7 years with an estimated total death toll of 75-80 million worldwide.  This is bad but not that bad. I agree and sympathize with you that some are more at risk of this disease than others and people need all the help they can get.  It is unrealistic to think anyone including the head Buffoon in charge can magic 30,000 ventilators into existence because there is an immediate need.  I also agree with you that more can and should be done.  Yes the war powers should be used, but I imagine retooling an entire manufacturer to make sterile ventilators would also take some time. There are no quick fixes...but now I know a lot more about the ventilator situation

i also agree corporations should have been an after thought. Priorities should be

healthcare
economic assistance for those in need
economic assistance to failing business
and then maybe waaaaaaayyyyyy back there corporations and the stock market

World War 2 was officially six years and a day.

Thanks for the history lesson I edited the original post to fix my inaccuracies 

My pleasure.  I ve been remote teaching for two weeks now.

mrussel1

static111 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Hi! said:

F Me In The Brain said:

wndowpayne said:

If I heard correctly it even covers payroll for 4 months up to 100k per employee?  is that right?

Is there a link to this?  I didn't see that listed in the stories I read but people are citing some specifics that would suggest the text of the bill is out there for review.

Can someone share, if so?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text

Doesn't help me one bit.  Thx 

What do you need? Do you fall under self employment, or having a struggling business?  Just wondering.....it really sucks that it won’t help you out.  I wrote my idiot congressmen, not sure if it helped at all but it is good to get your specific needs out there to people crafting these bills.

If I am reading it right, I am over the annual salary exemption so I don't get anything.

Living in NY I get the short end of the stick a lot...

Well that sucks. Has your work or pay been impacted by this at all yet? Based on what I read, my family will receive around $3400, but my job has not been impacted as of yet so while I don't mind the boost, I am not one of the people who most needs it.

Wait, does everyone get this check or just unemployed?

Everyone who made less than 75000 in 2018 or less than 150000 jointly is my understanding regardless of current employment status. Plus 500 per child

gross or net or adj gross?

I would think gross since they are basing it off of taxes.  But if you look at the link I posted above Lindsey Graham and his ilk may try to block everything because they hate poor people and can’t say it without using coded language.  No problem giving trillions to the stock market and billions to the airlines though.  And people wonder why some of us want to go back to work....

I thought this guy was attached to the end of Trump's unit. 

If Trump wants it, he will vote for it.

From a conceptual level I don't see how you could argue with his point.  Unemployment should not pay someone more than they make before they lose their job.   

They write these fucking things so that they are tough to understand but I do not see that in the bill text that I have read so far.  If that is a part of the bill I agree with Lindsey Asswipe.  Having never had to go on it (yet, early in these days of crisis, I could find out soon enough I guess) I do not know how it works. 

How would it be a statement that someone hates poor people to say that their unemployment if they lost their job due to The Rona should not pay them more than they made?

First of all to even get unemployment you have to prove a work history and have paid in to the unemployment fund through your payroll taxes.  You can’t quit your job and get unemployment benefits.  Most people get less than 1/2 of their base salary an extra 600 isn’t going to do much.  This is a temporary provision for 4 months.  If your employer calls you back to work you have to go back or you lose your benefits. Basically no one making 15 an hour is incentivized to quit work or not go back to work.  Even if some people do get more than they would because they got laid off for 4 months due to corona virus how is that a bad thing.... but nobody batting an eye to trillions from the fed and billions to the airlines......

I agree with all of this, but I do want to point out an important point because Ben Sasse (who I normally like, for an R, is bringing up).  He's talking about how some people may abuse this benefit because it dis-incentivizes work in some cases.  And he's right.. but who fucking cares. You make a rule/law/legislation for the 98% and then you weed out, manage, etc. the 2%.  You don't do 'nothing' because of the 2%.  And btw, this is the exact same argument I was making for a few days on the stocks page, regarding not prohibiting equities trading because of a few bad actors.  The exact same premise applies in both cases. 

F Me In The Brain

static111 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Hi! said:

F Me In The Brain said:

wndowpayne said:

If I heard correctly it even covers payroll for 4 months up to 100k per employee?  is that right?

Is there a link to this?  I didn't see that listed in the stories I read but people are citing some specifics that would suggest the text of the bill is out there for review.

Can someone share, if so?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text

Doesn't help me one bit.  Thx 

What do you need? Do you fall under self employment, or having a struggling business?  Just wondering.....it really sucks that it won’t help you out.  I wrote my idiot congressmen, not sure if it helped at all but it is good to get your specific needs out there to people crafting these bills.

If I am reading it right, I am over the annual salary exemption so I don't get anything.

Living in NY I get the short end of the stick a lot...

Well that sucks. Has your work or pay been impacted by this at all yet? Based on what I read, my family will receive around $3400, but my job has not been impacted as of yet so while I don't mind the boost, I am not one of the people who most needs it.

Wait, does everyone get this check or just unemployed?

Everyone who made less than 75000 in 2018 or less than 150000 jointly is my understanding regardless of current employment status. Plus 500 per child

gross or net or adj gross?

I would think gross since they are basing it off of taxes.  But if you look at the link I posted above Lindsey Graham and his ilk may try to block everything because they hate poor people and can’t say it without using coded language.  No problem giving trillions to the stock market and billions to the airlines though.  And people wonder why some of us want to go back to work....

I thought this guy was attached to the end of Trump's unit. 

If Trump wants it, he will vote for it.

From a conceptual level I don't see how you could argue with his point.  Unemployment should not pay someone more than they make before they lose their job.   

They write these fucking things so that they are tough to understand but I do not see that in the bill text that I have read so far.  If that is a part of the bill I agree with Lindsey Asswipe.  Having never had to go on it (yet, early in these days of crisis, I could find out soon enough I guess) I do not know how it works. 

How would it be a statement that someone hates poor people to say that their unemployment if they lost their job due to The Rona should not pay them more than they made?

First of all to even get unemployment you have to prove a work history and have paid in to the unemployment fund through your payroll taxes.  You can’t quit your job and get unemployment benefits.  Most people get less than 1/2 of their base salary an extra 600 isn’t going to do much.  This is a temporary provision for 4 months.  If your employer calls you back to work you have to go back or you lose your benefits. Basically no one making 15 an hour is incentivized to quit work or not go back to work.  Even if some people do get more than they would because they got laid off for 4 months due to corona virus how is that a bad thing.... but nobody batting an eye to trillions from the fed and billions to the airlines......

Yeah, I am not trying to argue with you -- more-so trying to understand the plan.  I didn't read it all yet, which I will.

As a business leader I do know that you don't get to quit and then automatically get unemployment. 

I still would not think there is any reason to pay anyone more than what they made if their job was lost as a result of The Rona.

We can agree to disagree on that note, but I don't think it makes me hate poor people.  I have a few poor people in my family and I (for the most part) love them more than the people with money.

OnWis97

jeffbr said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Hi! said:

F Me In The Brain said:

wndowpayne said:

If I heard correctly it even covers payroll for 4 months up to 100k per employee?  is that right?

Is there a link to this?  I didn't see that listed in the stories I read but people are citing some specifics that would suggest the text of the bill is out there for review.

Can someone share, if so?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text

Doesn't help me one bit.  Thx 

What do you need? Do you fall under self employment, or having a struggling business?  Just wondering.....it really sucks that it won’t help you out.  I wrote my idiot congressmen, not sure if it helped at all but it is good to get your specific needs out there to people crafting these bills.

If I am reading it right, I am over the annual salary exemption so I don't get anything.

Living in NY I get the short end of the stick a lot...

Well that sucks. Has your work or pay been impacted by this at all yet? Based on what I read, my family will receive around $3400, but my job has not been impacted as of yet so while I don't mind the boost, I am not one of the people who most needs it.

Wait, does everyone get this check or just unemployed?

Everyone who made less than 75000 in 2018 or less than 150000 jointly is my understanding regardless of current employment status. Plus 500 per child

gross or net or adj gross?

From CNBC it sounds like adjusted gross:

Congress likely to send taxpayers $1,200 checks in coronavirus aid. Here’s who qualifies

Those payments are expected to be $1,200 for individuals, or $2,400 for those who are married and file income taxes jointly. It also includes $500 per child.

But you have to meet certain qualifications in order to be eligible for the money, based on your adjusted gross income in your 2018 tax returns. If you earn more than $75,000 as an individual, $112,500 as the head of household or $150,000 if you are married and filing jointly, the amount of those checks starts to get reduced.

I would have guessed the threashold would be lower...My household doesn't need it and almost gets it.  Oh well, I'm lucky not to be in a position to be getting that...as long as we're both still employed (so far, so good), we don't need it. 

mrussel1

OnWis97 said:

jeffbr said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Hi! said:

F Me In The Brain said:

wndowpayne said:

If I heard correctly it even covers payroll for 4 months up to 100k per employee?  is that right?

Is there a link to this?  I didn't see that listed in the stories I read but people are citing some specifics that would suggest the text of the bill is out there for review.

Can someone share, if so?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text

Doesn't help me one bit.  Thx 

What do you need? Do you fall under self employment, or having a struggling business?  Just wondering.....it really sucks that it won’t help you out.  I wrote my idiot congressmen, not sure if it helped at all but it is good to get your specific needs out there to people crafting these bills.

If I am reading it right, I am over the annual salary exemption so I don't get anything.

Living in NY I get the short end of the stick a lot...

Well that sucks. Has your work or pay been impacted by this at all yet? Based on what I read, my family will receive around $3400, but my job has not been impacted as of yet so while I don't mind the boost, I am not one of the people who most needs it.

Wait, does everyone get this check or just unemployed?

Everyone who made less than 75000 in 2018 or less than 150000 jointly is my understanding regardless of current employment status. Plus 500 per child

gross or net or adj gross?

From CNBC it sounds like adjusted gross:

Congress likely to send taxpayers $1,200 checks in coronavirus aid. Here’s who qualifies

Those payments are expected to be $1,200 for individuals, or $2,400 for those who are married and file income taxes jointly. It also includes $500 per child.

But you have to meet certain qualifications in order to be eligible for the money, based on your adjusted gross income in your 2018 tax returns. If you earn more than $75,000 as an individual, $112,500 as the head of household or $150,000 if you are married and filing jointly, the amount of those checks starts to get reduced.

I would have guessed the threashold would be lower...My household doesn't need it and almost gets it.  Oh well, I'm lucky not to be in a position to be getting that...as long as we're both still employed (so far, so good), we don't need it. 

There should be a COLA. It's probably too complex for an emergency bill, but that's the right thing to do. 

Gern Blansten

mickeyrat said:

jeffbr said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Hi! said:

F Me In The Brain said:

wndowpayne said:

If I heard correctly it even covers payroll for 4 months up to 100k per employee?  is that right?

Is there a link to this?  I didn't see that listed in the stories I read but people are citing some specifics that would suggest the text of the bill is out there for review.

Can someone share, if so?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text

Doesn't help me one bit.  Thx 

What do you need? Do you fall under self employment, or having a struggling business?  Just wondering.....it really sucks that it won’t help you out.  I wrote my idiot congressmen, not sure if it helped at all but it is good to get your specific needs out there to people crafting these bills.

If I am reading it right, I am over the annual salary exemption so I don't get anything.

Living in NY I get the short end of the stick a lot...

Well that sucks. Has your work or pay been impacted by this at all yet? Based on what I read, my family will receive around $3400, but my job has not been impacted as of yet so while I don't mind the boost, I am not one of the people who most needs it.

Wait, does everyone get this check or just unemployed?

Everyone who made less than 75000 in 2018 or less than 150000 jointly is my understanding regardless of current employment status. Plus 500 per child

gross or net or adj gross?

From CNBC it sounds like adjusted gross:

Congress likely to send taxpayers $1,200 checks in coronavirus aid. Here’s who qualifies

Those payments are expected to be $1,200 for individuals, or $2,400 for those who are married and file income taxes jointly. It also includes $500 per child.

But you have to meet certain qualifications in order to be eligible for the money, based on your adjusted gross income in your 2018 tax returns. If you earn more than $75,000 as an individual, $112,500 as the head of household or $150,000 if you are married and filing jointly, the amount of those checks starts to get reduced.

aint that some shit. Wife will get the full check.

I on the other hand had an agi of 75,908.00

you still get a check....it will be reduced slightly but not by much

phase out starts at $75K and ends around $99K

mcgruff10

OnWis97 said:

brianlux said:

mcgruff10 said:

First world problems I know but something just hit me hard: I won’t be able to my son on his birthday Thursday.  My ex is a nurse practitioner in the trenches with all this.  We agreed to keep him with her until this all this passes.  Haven’t seen him in almost two weeks and I am cool with that but missing his birthday, god damn I am crushed. 

First world or no, that sucks.  Man, I'm sorry.  Can you FaceTIme with him? 

That's what my wife does with her daughter in Alaska the few times she's been back to the (closed) store where we have better internet connections.  The rest of the time it's just smart phoning.

McGruff (and all of us) probably has lots of first world problems...this is absolutely not one of 'em.

Thanks bud. I appreciate that. 

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

jeffbr said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Hi! said:

F Me In The Brain said:

wndowpayne said:

If I heard correctly it even covers payroll for 4 months up to 100k per employee?  is that right?

Is there a link to this?  I didn't see that listed in the stories I read but people are citing some specifics that would suggest the text of the bill is out there for review.

Can someone share, if so?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text

Doesn't help me one bit.  Thx 

What do you need? Do you fall under self employment, or having a struggling business?  Just wondering.....it really sucks that it won’t help you out.  I wrote my idiot congressmen, not sure if it helped at all but it is good to get your specific needs out there to people crafting these bills.

If I am reading it right, I am over the annual salary exemption so I don't get anything.

Living in NY I get the short end of the stick a lot...

Well that sucks. Has your work or pay been impacted by this at all yet? Based on what I read, my family will receive around $3400, but my job has not been impacted as of yet so while I don't mind the boost, I am not one of the people who most needs it.

Wait, does everyone get this check or just unemployed?

Everyone who made less than 75000 in 2018 or less than 150000 jointly is my understanding regardless of current employment status. Plus 500 per child

gross or net or adj gross?

From CNBC it sounds like adjusted gross:

Congress likely to send taxpayers $1,200 checks in coronavirus aid. Here’s who qualifies

Those payments are expected to be $1,200 for individuals, or $2,400 for those who are married and file income taxes jointly. It also includes $500 per child.

But you have to meet certain qualifications in order to be eligible for the money, based on your adjusted gross income in your 2018 tax returns. If you earn more than $75,000 as an individual, $112,500 as the head of household or $150,000 if you are married and filing jointly, the amount of those checks starts to get reduced.

aint that some shit. Wife will get the full check.

I on the other hand had an agi of 75,908.00

you still get a check....it will be reduced slightly but not by much

phase out starts at $75K and ends around $99K

still in the air. house has yet to have input.

Gern Blansten

mickeyrat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

jeffbr said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Hi! said:

F Me In The Brain said:

wndowpayne said:

If I heard correctly it even covers payroll for 4 months up to 100k per employee?  is that right?

Is there a link to this?  I didn't see that listed in the stories I read but people are citing some specifics that would suggest the text of the bill is out there for review.

Can someone share, if so?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text

Doesn't help me one bit.  Thx 

What do you need? Do you fall under self employment, or having a struggling business?  Just wondering.....it really sucks that it won’t help you out.  I wrote my idiot congressmen, not sure if it helped at all but it is good to get your specific needs out there to people crafting these bills.

If I am reading it right, I am over the annual salary exemption so I don't get anything.

Living in NY I get the short end of the stick a lot...

Well that sucks. Has your work or pay been impacted by this at all yet? Based on what I read, my family will receive around $3400, but my job has not been impacted as of yet so while I don't mind the boost, I am not one of the people who most needs it.

Wait, does everyone get this check or just unemployed?

Everyone who made less than 75000 in 2018 or less than 150000 jointly is my understanding regardless of current employment status. Plus 500 per child

gross or net or adj gross?

From CNBC it sounds like adjusted gross:

Congress likely to send taxpayers $1,200 checks in coronavirus aid. Here’s who qualifies

Those payments are expected to be $1,200 for individuals, or $2,400 for those who are married and file income taxes jointly. It also includes $500 per child.

But you have to meet certain qualifications in order to be eligible for the money, based on your adjusted gross income in your 2018 tax returns. If you earn more than $75,000 as an individual, $112,500 as the head of household or $150,000 if you are married and filing jointly, the amount of those checks starts to get reduced.

aint that some shit. Wife will get the full check.

I on the other hand had an agi of 75,908.00

you still get a check....it will be reduced slightly but not by much

phase out starts at $75K and ends around $99K

still in the air. house has yet to have input.

so why you bitchin?

CM189191

https://twitter.com/nashsteviej/status/1242619989917605888?s=19

cincybearcat

As long as I have my job I don’t need the $, and I’m not getting it.  But I HATE the idea of sending checks to everyone. Many don’t need it. The person in NYC gets the same as the person in Montana don’t they?

seem it would be better to work with businesses to guarantee and pay a certain % of the pay, etc to the employees to keep them on the payroll despite not working. And then shore up the systems we already have in place to move faster and provide more short term benefits.

static111

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mcgruff10 said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Hi! said:

F Me In The Brain said:

wndowpayne said:

If I heard correctly it even covers payroll for 4 months up to 100k per employee?  is that right?

Is there a link to this?  I didn't see that listed in the stories I read but people are citing some specifics that would suggest the text of the bill is out there for review.

Can someone share, if so?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text

Doesn't help me one bit.  Thx 

What do you need? Do you fall under self employment, or having a struggling business?  Just wondering.....it really sucks that it won’t help you out.  I wrote my idiot congressmen, not sure if it helped at all but it is good to get your specific needs out there to people crafting these bills.

If I am reading it right, I am over the annual salary exemption so I don't get anything.

Living in NY I get the short end of the stick a lot...

Well that sucks. Has your work or pay been impacted by this at all yet? Based on what I read, my family will receive around $3400, but my job has not been impacted as of yet so while I don't mind the boost, I am not one of the people who most needs it.

Wait, does everyone get this check or just unemployed?

Everyone who made less than 75000 in 2018 or less than 150000 jointly is my understanding regardless of current employment status. Plus 500 per child

gross or net or adj gross?

I would think gross since they are basing it off of taxes.  But if you look at the link I posted above Lindsey Graham and his ilk may try to block everything because they hate poor people and can’t say it without using coded language.  No problem giving trillions to the stock market and billions to the airlines though.  And people wonder why some of us want to go back to work....

I thought this guy was attached to the end of Trump's unit. 

If Trump wants it, he will vote for it.

From a conceptual level I don't see how you could argue with his point.  Unemployment should not pay someone more than they make before they lose their job.   

They write these fucking things so that they are tough to understand but I do not see that in the bill text that I have read so far.  If that is a part of the bill I agree with Lindsey Asswipe.  Having never had to go on it (yet, early in these days of crisis, I could find out soon enough I guess) I do not know how it works. 

How would it be a statement that someone hates poor people to say that their unemployment if they lost their job due to The Rona should not pay them more than they made?

First of all to even get unemployment you have to prove a work history and have paid in to the unemployment fund through your payroll taxes.  You can’t quit your job and get unemployment benefits.  Most people get less than 1/2 of their base salary an extra 600 isn’t going to do much.  This is a temporary provision for 4 months.  If your employer calls you back to work you have to go back or you lose your benefits. Basically no one making 15 an hour is incentivized to quit work or not go back to work.  Even if some people do get more than they would because they got laid off for 4 months due to corona virus how is that a bad thing.... but nobody batting an eye to trillions from the fed and billions to the airlines......

I agree with all of this, but I do want to point out an important point because Ben Sasse (who I normally like, for an R, is bringing up).  He's talking about how some people may abuse this benefit because it dis-incentivizes work in some cases.  And he's right.. but who fucking cares. You make a rule/law/legislation for the 98% and then you weed out, manage, etc. the 2%.  You don't do 'nothing' because of the 2%.  And btw, this is the exact same argument I was making for a few days on the stocks page, regarding not prohibiting equities trading because of a few bad actors.  The exact same premise applies in both cases. 

Touché I have to accede that point to you

wndowpayne

cincybearcat said:

As long as I have my job I don’t need the $, and I’m not getting it.  But I HATE the idea of sending checks to everyone. Many don’t need it. The person in NYC gets the same as the person in Montana don’t they?

seem it would be better to work with businesses to guarantee and pay a certain % of the pay, etc to the employees to keep them on the payroll despite not working. And then shore up the systems we already have in place to move faster and provide more short term benefits.

Pretty sure that is what they just said in the conference..and loans will be forgiven as long as kept as employeess

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

As long as I have my job I don’t need the $, and I’m not getting it.  But I HATE the idea of sending checks to everyone. Many don’t need it. The person in NYC gets the same as the person in Montana don’t they?

seem it would be better to work with businesses to guarantee and pay a certain % of the pay, etc to the employees to keep them on the payroll despite not working. And then shore up the systems we already have in place to move faster and provide more short term benefits.

I'd argue this plan hits both sides.  It's making hundreds of billions available to small businesses with revenues under a certain amount (rumor is 7.5MM).  While I haven't seen teh details, I think it will be close to zero interest AND some portion of the note will be waived.  That will keep many businesses afloat and people on the payroll.  But even the 'many' that don't need it (first, why do you think they don't need it.. the bar isn't very high) will theoretically go out and put the money back into the economy once things open.  While maybe some don't need it, it's not worth trying to parse that out.  I have 60 plus small businesses that are suppliers for me, and I can tell you we are already monitoring their furlough situation, along with their payables schedules to their vendors.  And it's going bad quickly.  

bbiggs

Reading some of the stories coming out of New York. It is a very scary situation there.  The hospitals are starting to see what Italy has been seeing. This write up had a doctor explaining that she had to do chest compressions on 3 people; one in 80’s, one in 60’s and a 38 year old. All died from cardiac arrest. I wonder what it is that is causing cardiac arrest in some patients, being that it is a respiratory disease. Does the lack of oxygen have the potential to bring on cardiac arrest? 

mrussel1

bbiggs said:

Reading some of the stories coming out of New York. It is a very scary situation there.  The hospitals are starting to see what Italy has been seeing. This write up had a doctor explaining that she had to do chest compressions on 3 people; one in 80’s, one in 60’s and a 38 year old. All died from cardiac arrest. I wonder what it is that is causing cardiac arrest in some patients, being that it is a respiratory disease. Does the lack of oxygen have the potential to bring on cardiac arrest? 

Yes, I think that's exactly it.  A few years ago, I went skiing back country at 12K feet with pneumonia and I didn't know it.  Well I developed High Altitude Pulmonary Edema (HAPE).  My pulse ox was down to 28 and I couldn't stay conscious.  I was told that most people go into cardiac arrest under 40.  I think this is exactly what's happening.  

bbiggs

mrussel1 said:

bbiggs said:

Reading some of the stories coming out of New York. It is a very scary situation there.  The hospitals are starting to see what Italy has been seeing. This write up had a doctor explaining that she had to do chest compressions on 3 people; one in 80’s, one in 60’s and a 38 year old. All died from cardiac arrest. I wonder what it is that is causing cardiac arrest in some patients, being that it is a respiratory disease. Does the lack of oxygen have the potential to bring on cardiac arrest? 

Yes, I think that's exactly it.  A few years ago, I went skiing back country at 12K feet with pneumonia and I didn't know it.  Well I developed High Altitude Pulmonary Edema (HAPE).  My pulse ox was down to 28 and I couldn't stay conscious.  I was told that most people go into cardiac arrest under 40.  I think this is exactly what's happening.  

Wow. Glad you made it through that okay. This is a scary f’n virus, regardless of age. 

mcgruff10

mrussel1 said:

bbiggs said:

Reading some of the stories coming out of New York. It is a very scary situation there.  The hospitals are starting to see what Italy has been seeing. This write up had a doctor explaining that she had to do chest compressions on 3 people; one in 80’s, one in 60’s and a 38 year old. All died from cardiac arrest. I wonder what it is that is causing cardiac arrest in some patients, being that it is a respiratory disease. Does the lack of oxygen have the potential to bring on cardiac arrest? 

Yes, I think that's exactly it.  A few years ago, I went skiing back country at 12K feet with pneumonia and I didn't know it.  Well I developed High Altitude Pulmonary Edema (HAPE).  My pulse ox was down to 28 and I couldn't stay conscious.  I was told that most people go into cardiac arrest under 40.  I think this is exactly what's happening.  

Damn bud that is scary shit.  I got altitude sickness once while in Wyoming but nothing like that.  Glad to hear you are ok.

mrussel1

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

bbiggs said:

Reading some of the stories coming out of New York. It is a very scary situation there.  The hospitals are starting to see what Italy has been seeing. This write up had a doctor explaining that she had to do chest compressions on 3 people; one in 80’s, one in 60’s and a 38 year old. All died from cardiac arrest. I wonder what it is that is causing cardiac arrest in some patients, being that it is a respiratory disease. Does the lack of oxygen have the potential to bring on cardiac arrest? 

Yes, I think that's exactly it.  A few years ago, I went skiing back country at 12K feet with pneumonia and I didn't know it.  Well I developed High Altitude Pulmonary Edema (HAPE).  My pulse ox was down to 28 and I couldn't stay conscious.  I was told that most people go into cardiac arrest under 40.  I think this is exactly what's happening.  

Damn bud that is scary shit.  I got altitude sickness once while in Wyoming but nothing like that.  Glad to hear you are ok.

haha, yeah, this definitely isn't the same as altitude sickness. Although the first and only time I took my wife skiing (A Basin) she got the sickness and it blew up the whole weekend.  Totally sucked.  My ski trips after that were friends only, she had no interest.  

mcgruff10

Yet another theory (which I like!)

New Oxford study suggests millions of people may have already built up coronavirus immunity

A model predicting the progression of the novel coronavirus pandemic produced by researchers at Imperial College London set off alarms across the world and was a major factor in several governments' decisions to lock things down. But a new model from Oxford University is challenging its accuracy, the Financial Times reports.

The Oxford research suggests the pandemic is in a later stage than previously thought and estimates the virus has already infected at least millions of people worldwide. In the United Kingdom, which the study focuses on, half the population would have already been infected. If accurate, that would mean transmission began around mid-January and the vast majority of cases presented mild or no symptoms.

The head of the study, professor Sunetra Gupta, an Oxford theoretical epidemiologist, said she still supports the U.K.'s decision to shut down the country to suppress the virus even if her research winds up being proven correct. But she also doesn't appear to be a big fan of the work done by the Imperial College team. "I am surprised that there has been such unqualified acceptance of the Imperial model," she said.

If her work is accurate, that would likely mean a large swath of the population has built up resistance to the virus. Theoretically, then, social restrictions could ease sooner than anticipated. What needs to be done now, Gupta said, is a whole lot of antibody testing to figure out who may have contracted the virus. Her research team is working with groups from the University of Cambridge and the University of Kent to start those tests for the general population as quickly as possible. Read more at the Financial Times.