The "N" Word

Malroth

tempo_n_groove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

One in a Million is my favorite song by them.  There are a few too many slurs in this song that got them in trouble though.

Just looked up the lyrics to this song

One, two, one, two, three, four
Guess I needed some time to get away
I needed some peace of mind
Some peace of mind that'll stay
So I thumbed it down to sixth in L.A.
Maybe a Greyhound could be my way

Police and niggers, that's right
Get outta my way
Don't need to buy none of your
Gold chains today
Now don't need no bracelets
Clamped in front of my back
Just need my ticket, 'til then
Won't you cut me some slack

You're one in a million
Yeah that's what you are
You're one in a million babe
You're a shooting star
Maybe some day we'll see you
Before you make us cry
You know we tried to reach you
But you were much to high
Much too high
Much too high
Much too high

Immigrants and faggots
They make no sense to me
They come to our country
And think they'll do as they please
Like start some mini-Iran
Or spread some fucking disease
And they talk so many goddamn ways
It's all Greek to me

Well some say I'm lazy
And others say that's just me
Some say I'm crazy
I guess I'll always be
But it's been such a long time
Since I knew right from wrong
It's all the means to and end and
I keep it moving along
Hey, hey, hey, yeah

You're one in a million
You're a shooting star
You're one in a million babe
You know that you are
Maybe someday we'll see you
Before you make us cry
You know we tried to reach you
But you were much too high
Much too high
Much too high
Much too high

Radicals and racists
Don't point your finger at me
I'm a small town white boy
Just tryin' to make ends meet
Don't need your religion
Don't watch that much TV
Just makin' my livin' baby
Well that's enough for me

You're one in a million
Yeah that's what you are
You're one in a million babe
You're a shooting star
Maybe some day we'll see you
Before you make us cry
You know we tried to reach you
But you were much too high
Much too high yeah, yeah, yeah
Much too high
Much too high
Much too high yeah, yeah, yeah
Much too high
Much too high

Spiritual_Chaos

Malroth said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

One in a Million is my favorite song by them.  There are a few too many slurs in this song that got them in trouble though.

Just looked up the lyrics to this song

One, two, one, two, three, four
Guess I needed some time to get away
I needed some peace of mind
Some peace of mind that'll stay
So I thumbed it down to sixth in L.A.
Maybe a Greyhound could be my way

Police and niggers, that's right
Get outta my way
Don't need to buy none of your
Gold chains today
Now don't need no bracelets
Clamped in front of my back
Just need my ticket, 'til then
Won't you cut me some slack

You're one in a million
Yeah that's what you are
You're one in a million babe
You're a shooting star
Maybe some day we'll see you
Before you make us cry
You know we tried to reach you
But you were much to high
Much too high
Much too high
Much too high

Immigrants and faggots
They make no sense to me
They come to our country
And think they'll do as they please
Like start some mini-Iran
Or spread some fucking disease
And they talk so many goddamn ways
It's all Greek to me

Well some say I'm lazy
And others say that's just me
Some say I'm crazy
I guess I'll always be
But it's been such a long time
Since I knew right from wrong
It's all the means to and end and
I keep it moving along
Hey, hey, hey, yeah

You're one in a million
You're a shooting star
You're one in a million babe
You know that you are
Maybe someday we'll see you
Before you make us cry
You know we tried to reach you
But you were much too high
Much too high
Much too high
Much too high

Radicals and racists
Don't point your finger at me
I'm a small town white boy
Just tryin' to make ends meet
Don't need your religion
Don't watch that much TV
Just makin' my livin' baby
Well that's enough for me

You're one in a million
Yeah that's what you are
You're one in a million babe
You're a shooting star
Maybe some day we'll see you
Before you make us cry
You know we tried to reach you
But you were much too high
Much too high yeah, yeah, yeah
Much too high
Much too high
Much too high yeah, yeah, yeah
Much too high
Much too high

Rose in 1989:

I used words like police and [n-word] because you're not allowed to use the word '[n-word].' Why can black people go up to each other and say, '[n-word],' but when a white guy does it all of a sudden it's a big putdown? I don't like boundaries of any kind. I don't like being told what I can and what I can't say. I used the word '[n-word]' because it's a word to describe somebody that is basically a pain in your life, a problem. The word '[-n-word]' doesn't necessarily mean black. Doesn't John Lennon have a song "Woman Is the [n-word] of the World"? There's a rap group, N.W.A. – Niggers With Attitude. I mean, they're proud of that word. More power to them. Guns n' Roses ain't bad . . . N.W.A. is baaad! Mr. Bob Goldthwait said the only reason we put these lyrics on the record was because it would cause controversy and we'd sell a million albums. Fuck him! Why'd he put us in his skit? We don't just do something to get the controversy, the press.

---

By 1992, however, Rose seemed to have gained new perspective on the song and its lyrics. "I was pissed off about some black people that were trying to rob me," he said. "I wanted to insult those particular black people."[10] In his final public comments about "One in a Million" in 1992, Rose stated, "It was a way for me to express my anger at how vulnerable I felt in certain situations that had gone down in my life."

---

Before the release of Lies, the other members of the band tried in vain to make Rose drop the track from the record.[16] Steven Adler exclaimed "What the fuck? Is this necessary?", to which Rose responded "Yeah, it's necessary. I'm letting my feelings out."[16] Slash, whose mother is black, noted that he did not condone the song but did not condemn his bandmate, commenting in 1991 Rolling Stone interview: "When Axl first came up with the song and really wanted to do it, I said I didn't think it was very cool... I don't regret doing 'One in a Million', I just regret what we've been through because of it and the way people have perceived our personal feelings."[17]

In 1988, rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin told rock critic Nick Kent that the lyrics simply reflected the poor race relations of inner city Los Angeles.[18]

In a 2019 interview, Duff McKagan said: "One thing about Axl is if you’re going to try to compete with him intellectually, you’ve lost, because he’s a super smart guy... He’s a super sensitive dude who does his studies. When we did that song, I was still drinking but he was way ahead of us with his vision of, ‘Something’s gotta be said.’ That was the most hardcore way to say it. So flash-forward to now. So many people have misinterpreted that song that we removed it ... Nobody got it.”[19]

---

"One in a Million" was not included on a 2018 box-set reissue of Appetite for Destruction, which featured the remaining G N' R Lies songs on a bonus disc.[14] Slash explained it had been a collective decision, which didn't require a "big roundtable thing".[15]

Spiritual_Chaos

Not to slag off a Seattle person - but Duff saying that "nobody got it" sounds like history revisionism if you read Axls 1989 and 1992 comment about the song. 

Also, was it right to remove it or should it have been included on the Appetite deluxe box re-release? 

tempo_n_groove

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Not to slag off a Seattle person - but Duff saying that "nobody got it" sounds like history revisionism if you read Axls 1989 and 1992 comment about the song. 

Also, was it right to remove it or should it have been included on the Appetite deluxe box re-release? 

I would be in a small group to say "leave it on".  But, you would have too many new listeners asking the same questions and in the end GNR is going to lose.

This song won't work in todays climate.

OnWis97

GNR has always gotten a pass for that song and I never quite understood why. I don't really think there was a super-sophisticated message. I just think it was about a small town white boy (his words) not liking all the diversity in the big city.

Spiritual_Chaos

Always thought it sarcastically sung in character as a small minded white male American. "One in a million" being what the character wants to be perceived as. But he's just another racist, small minded piece of shit from some small town. Axl being on the opposite side of that.

But seems from comments that it's sung from Axl's own perspective.... yikes...

OnWis97

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Always thought it sarcastically sung in character as a small minded white male American. "One in a million" being what the character wants to be perceived as. But he's just another racist, small minded piece of shit from some small town. Axl being on the opposite side of that.

But seems from comments that it's sung from Axl's own perspective.... yikes...

At best, artists need to be very careful when they think they're being brilliantly clever/artistic. This was true in the 1980s when songs like Whores (Janes Addiction) and this came out. It's not even true anymore; now context doesn't really matter...just don't use it. Unless you want to do so and just call all your detractors "woke," I suppose.

I'm old enough that I bought that album (EP?) soon after it came out and put the CD in my CD player / boombox. After the first seven songs, I found it to be a bit of a letdown (with the live Mama Kin cover and Patience being terrific exceptions). I remember just being blown away when I heard that song at age 15 or whatever. I was pretty disappointed and it's always informed my feelings on the band...(though to be frank, I feel they were disappointing in several ways...though they have a handful of really good songs, they have a lot of filler and a lot of drama). Now, that said, I bought the Use Your Illusion albums so I am either not entirely principled (bad) or not entirely woke (good).

One great "story" song is "Hurricane" by Bob Dylan. And Dylan's history saves him a bit but I do not understand why he used the word...it seems gratuitous. I've always struggled with that one.

tempo_n_groove

OnWis97 said:

GNR has always gotten a pass for that song and I never quite understood why. I don't really think there was a super-sophisticated message. I just think it was about a small town white boy (his words) not liking all the diversity in the big city.

No, they've NEVER gotten a pass for that song.  They agreed to stop singing it because they had protests every where they went.  People were pissed about it and GNR listened.

When they stopped singing it, the anger about it quelled.  Most teens right now aren't finding this on their radar right now so it won't be brought back up and they did leave it off the reissue.

Spiritual_Chaos

OnWis97 said:

One great "story" song is "Hurricane" by Bob Dylan. And Dylan's history saves him a bit but I do not understand why he used the word...it seems gratuitous. I've always struggled with that one.

But in Hurricane. Isn't it used to show that even the black community fell in line with the white man's view of him, and sadly the view of their own worth? That not even the black community had his back, or their own backs as a community in a world run by the white man? As in - they became Samuel L Jackson in Django Unchained - a black man succumbing to be viewed as shit by the white to be more accepted into their word, instead of fighting that view and standing up for oneself? 

All of Rubin's cards were marked in advance

The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance

The judge made Rubin's witnesses drunkards from the slums

To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum

And to the black folks he was just a crazy [n-word]

No one doubted that he pulled the trigger

That has always been my interpretation. But hey, I was wrong about One in a Million so...

tempo_n_groove

OnWis97 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Always thought it sarcastically sung in character as a small minded white male American. "One in a million" being what the character wants to be perceived as. But he's just another racist, small minded piece of shit from some small town. Axl being on the opposite side of that.

But seems from comments that it's sung from Axl's own perspective.... yikes...

At best, artists need to be very careful when they think they're being brilliantly clever/artistic. This was true in the 1980s when songs like Whores (Janes Addiction) and this came out. It's not even true anymore; now context doesn't really matter...just don't use it. Unless you want to do so and just call all your detractors "woke," I suppose.

I'm old enough that I bought that album (EP?) soon after it came out and put the CD in my CD player / boombox. After the first seven songs, I found it to be a bit of a letdown (with the live Mama Kin cover and Patience being terrific exceptions). I remember just being blown away when I heard that song at age 15 or whatever. I was pretty disappointed and it's always informed my feelings on the band...(though to be frank, I feel they were disappointing in several ways...though they have a handful of really good songs, they have a lot of filler and a lot of drama). Now, that said, I bought the Use Your Illusion albums so I am either not entirely principled (bad) or not entirely woke (good).

One great "story" song is "Hurricane" by Bob Dylan. And Dylan's history saves him a bit but I do not understand why he used the word...it seems gratuitous. I've always struggled with that one.

The N word has been engrained in most of us to not be used.  When I first heard One in a Million I was blown away by the song.  I'd never heard an artist talk like that.  Our Health teacher played it and discussed the song with us.  It was a pretty powerful song.

I may have liked it because it was so avant-garde?

Now fast forward a few yeas and I became a big House of Pain fan.  Their third album I believe, steamy pile, came out and this was when everyone was trying to be really hard.  Think Pumps and the bumps by Hammer, anywho, Everlast dropped the N word in a song.  I was like what?!?

He got a pass for that as far as I know.  It was also the last time he did that.  You would never hear the beasties doing that and it was weird to here Everlast do it.

Go Beavers

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Always thought it sarcastically sung in character as a small minded white male American. "One in a million" being what the character wants to be perceived as. But he's just another racist, small minded piece of shit from some small town. Axl being on the opposite side of that.

But seems from comments that it's sung from Axl's own perspective.... yikes...

Having grown up in the neighboring town of Axl’s back in Indiana, it was pretty common for whites to feel comfortable around other whites to spout off racist jokes, tropes, putdowns, and bigoted crap. I would say this is more a sign of his comfort level with the usage at the time combined with maybe feeling tension or anxiety with being around a lot more black people than he was in Indiana. Thankfully they matured beyond that. 

HughFreakingDillon

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Not to slag off a Seattle person - but Duff saying that "nobody got it" sounds like history revisionism if you read Axls 1989 and 1992 comment about the song. 

Also, was it right to remove it or should it have been included on the Appetite deluxe box re-release? 

I would chalk it up to "different perceptions/perspectives that have been clouded with time and much intoxicants". 

lastexitlondon

People clearly spoke and acted very differently  then. Thankfully  now  people don't  and whats  more call it out. 
Old days were bad. New days better.  Future i know  my adult kids would not only not use these words they  would and do call it out when an elder person still uses words that no longer are wanted or acceptable. 

tempo_n_groove

Go Beavers said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Always thought it sarcastically sung in character as a small minded white male American. "One in a million" being what the character wants to be perceived as. But he's just another racist, small minded piece of shit from some small town. Axl being on the opposite side of that.

But seems from comments that it's sung from Axl's own perspective.... yikes...

Having grown up in the neighboring town of Axl’s back in Indiana, it was pretty common for whites to feel comfortable around other whites to spout off racist jokes, tropes, putdowns, and bigoted crap. I would say this is more a sign of his comfort level with the usage at the time combined with maybe feeling tension or anxiety with being around a lot more black people than he was in Indiana. Thankfully they matured beyond that. 

I believe that was everywhere back in the day.

Spiritual_Chaos

tempo_n_groove said:

Go Beavers said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Always thought it sarcastically sung in character as a small minded white male American. "One in a million" being what the character wants to be perceived as. But he's just another racist, small minded piece of shit from some small town. Axl being on the opposite side of that.

But seems from comments that it's sung from Axl's own perspective.... yikes...

Having grown up in the neighboring town of Axl’s back in Indiana, it was pretty common for whites to feel comfortable around other whites to spout off racist jokes, tropes, putdowns, and bigoted crap. I would say this is more a sign of his comfort level with the usage at the time combined with maybe feeling tension or anxiety with being around a lot more black people than he was in Indiana. Thankfully they matured beyond that. 

I believe that was everywhere back in the day.

Was this everywhere?

"Immigrants and faggots
They make no sense to me
They come to our country
And think they'll do as they please
Like start a weird cult
Or spread some fucking disease
And they talk so many goddamn ways
It's all Greek to me"

No way that is Axls persepctive at the end of the 80s? Or is it? 

I can't wrap my head around the song. 

Is it some kind of "burning the world down" type of song, trying to portray being angry at everything - prejudice against everything (police, black people, immigrants, gays) means the prejudice in itself is nullified?

or is it a story about the Axl who arrived in LA, with everything from his upbringing in his backpack? As in, its a page from a diary from a young Axls perspective and he is the one in a million that "made it" and been enlightened and removed from that backwards Indiana-view?

Spiritual_Chaos

HOW CAN WE SAVE AXL ROSE

lastexitlondon

He is a dick and always has been

tempo_n_groove

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Go Beavers said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Always thought it sarcastically sung in character as a small minded white male American. "One in a million" being what the character wants to be perceived as. But he's just another racist, small minded piece of shit from some small town. Axl being on the opposite side of that.

But seems from comments that it's sung from Axl's own perspective.... yikes...

Having grown up in the neighboring town of Axl’s back in Indiana, it was pretty common for whites to feel comfortable around other whites to spout off racist jokes, tropes, putdowns, and bigoted crap. I would say this is more a sign of his comfort level with the usage at the time combined with maybe feeling tension or anxiety with being around a lot more black people than he was in Indiana. Thankfully they matured beyond that. 

I believe that was everywhere back in the day.

Was this everywhere?

"Immigrants and faggots
They make no sense to me
They come to our country
And think they'll do as they please
Like start a weird cult
Or spread some fucking disease
And they talk so many goddamn ways
It's all Greek to me"

No way that is Axls persepctive at the end of the 80s? Or is it? 

I can't wrap my head around the song. 

Is it some kind of "burning the world down" type of song, trying to portray being angry at everything - prejudice against everything (police, black people, immigrants, gays) means the prejudice in itself is nullified?

or is it a story about the Axl who arrived in LA, with everything from his upbringing in his backpack? As in, its a page from a diary from a young Axls perspective and he is the one in a million that "made it" and been enlightened and removed from that backwards Indiana-view?

One in a million as he made it, yes.

His description of LA is what anyone would see coming into the bus depot.  If you were used to living in a white suburban/farmland then it would be quite a culture shock.  The way he talks was pretty common for the most part.  N word was used but not as much and gays and minorities were easy targets back then with words.  It was a free for all.  Just watch the late 80's comedians that were big.

brianlux

Patti Smith... would you call this "cancelled"?  Where does it end?  Does anyone really thing Patti is a racist.  Fucks sake...

https://americansongwriter.com/patti-smiths-song-rock-n-roll-nr-removed-from-streaming-platforms/

Patti Smith’s Song “Rock N Roll N****r” Removed from Streaming Platforms

Patti Smith’s song “Rock N Roll N****r” has been removed from streaming services like Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal and Amazon Music, as reported by Rolling Stone.

The song, which appears on the 1978 album from Smith, Easter, was co-written by Smith and guitarist Lenny Kaye. In the track, Smith uses the racial slur to talk about white artists, like herself, who are “outside of society.”

She sings: Outside of society, they’re waitin’ for me / Outside of society, that’s where I want to be.

Now, though, the song is no longer on prominent streaming platforms because, well, of its tone-deaf delivery.

In the song, Smith uses the slur to describe musical heroes of different races, from Jimi Hendrix to Jackson Pollack to Jesus Christ. In the song’s liner notes, she wrote, “N****r no invented for color it was MADE FOR THE PLAGUE. The word (art) must be redefined—all mutants and the new babies born sans eyebrow and tonsil…any man who extends beyond the classic form is a n****r.”

The song was controversial the moment it was released. And in 1978, the year it came into the world, Smith tried to justify her use of the word in an interview with Rolling Stone, saying, “Suffering don’t make you a n****r. I mean, I grew up poor, too. … Ya think Black people are better than white people or sumpthin’? I was raised with black people. It’s like, I can walk down the street and say to a kid, ‘Hey n****r.’ I don’t have any kind of super-respect or fear of that kind of stuff.” 

She’s seemingly been defending the song since its release.

It was a regular on her live show song lists for years, though she hasn’t performed it since 2019. Other artists like Marilyn Manson and Courtney Love have covered it. In 1994, Trent Reznor remixed the song and included it on the soundtrack for Natural Born Killers.

According to Rolling Stone, “The reason for the song’s disappearance is unclear.”

Though, not really.

And who gets axed next.  Sly Stone?

Spiritual_Chaos

Is the John Lennon-song removed also?