The "N" Word

Lerxst1992

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think being called a "white" slur isn't nearly as bad since we weren't on the receiving end of abuse for 250 years. it has a much stronger connotation than honky. 

True, although there are subsets of whites who get singled out and harassed badly.  The Amish for example.  If you've seen the film Witness you get a good sense of what they have had to deal with.

Hitler abused whites, although to the nationalists, they weren’t pure enough.

tempo_n_groove

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think being called a "white" slur isn't nearly as bad since we weren't on the receiving end of abuse for 250 years. it has a much stronger connotation than honky. 

True, although there are subsets of whites who get singled out and harassed badly.  The Amish for example.  If you've seen the film Witness you get a good sense of what they have had to deal with.

Hitler abused whites, although to the nationalists, they weren’t pure enough.

You got abused if you weren't anglo pretty much.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think being called a "white" slur isn't nearly as bad since we weren't on the receiving end of abuse for 250 years. it has a much stronger connotation than honky. 

True, although there are subsets of whites who get singled out and harassed badly.  The Amish for example.  If you've seen the film Witness you get a good sense of what they have had to deal with.

Who bothers the Amish?  They make great stuff!

I haven't been back to my paternal home state for a good while, so maybe it's not a problem anymore.  But it used to be. 

More recently though, because a couple of Amish families had puppy farms, all of the sudden all Amish people supposedly practice cruelty to animals.  And they get joked about on places like Face Book.  Not gonna repeat the joke here (because I don't want it spread), but just a few days ago I saw what is akin to an Amish "racist" joke on FB.  I damn near unfriended the guy who posted it, but he's a nice guy, just kind of naive about the culture.

And I've seen some of that shit here in past years.  Really bugs the shit out of me.

brianlux

OnWis97 said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think being called a "white" slur isn't nearly as bad since we weren't on the receiving end of abuse for 250 years. it has a much stronger connotation than honky. 

True, although there are subsets of whites who get singled out and harassed badly.  The Amish for example.  If you've seen the film Witness you get a good sense of what they have had to deal with.

I am sure they deal with a lot of unfair treatment. But it's not really because they're white.

White, black, green, not the point.  Different/minority.  That's the point

tempo_n_groove

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think being called a "white" slur isn't nearly as bad since we weren't on the receiving end of abuse for 250 years. it has a much stronger connotation than honky. 

True, although there are subsets of whites who get singled out and harassed badly.  The Amish for example.  If you've seen the film Witness you get a good sense of what they have had to deal with.

Who bothers the Amish?  They make great stuff!

I haven't been back to my paternal home state for a good while, so maybe it's not a problem anymore.  But it used to be. 

More recently though, because a couple of Amish families had puppy farms, all of the sudden all Amish people supposedly practice cruelty to animals.  And they get joked about on places like Face Book.  Not gonna repeat the joke here (because I don't want it spread), but just a few days ago I saw what is akin to an Amish "racist" joke on FB.  I damn near unfriended the guy who posted it, but he's a nice guy, just kind of naive about the culture.

And I've seen some of that shit here in past years.  Really bugs the shit out of me.

I will forever be grateful for their "Rumspringa".It is too cool not to like.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think being called a "white" slur isn't nearly as bad since we weren't on the receiving end of abuse for 250 years. it has a much stronger connotation than honky. 

True, although there are subsets of whites who get singled out and harassed badly.  The Amish for example.  If you've seen the film Witness you get a good sense of what they have had to deal with.

Who bothers the Amish?  They make great stuff!

I haven't been back to my paternal home state for a good while, so maybe it's not a problem anymore.  But it used to be. 

More recently though, because a couple of Amish families had puppy farms, all of the sudden all Amish people supposedly practice cruelty to animals.  And they get joked about on places like Face Book.  Not gonna repeat the joke here (because I don't want it spread), but just a few days ago I saw what is akin to an Amish "racist" joke on FB.  I damn near unfriended the guy who posted it, but he's a nice guy, just kind of naive about the culture.

And I've seen some of that shit here in past years.  Really bugs the shit out of me.

I will forever be grateful for their "Rumspringa".It is too cool not to like.

For sure!  And honestly, much as I honor and respect the Amish half of my heritage, I can see why a lot of teens don't rejoin the fold.  I would like to think I would, but that would be difficult.

For those who don't know the term:Rumspringa is "a period when some Amish youth, boys more than girls, experience greater freedom. They are no longer under the control of their parents on weekends and, because they are not baptized, they are not yet under the authority of the church. During this time, many Amish youth adhere to traditional Amish behavior. Others experiment with “worldly” activities—buying a car, going to movies, wearing non-Amish clothes, buying a television. In larger Amish settlements, an adolescent’s behavior often depends on the peer group he or she chooses to join. Amish parents may worry about which group their child will join because the choice will influence the teen’s behavior."

Spiritual_Chaos

Here is something interesting regarding Sweden in all of this. Into the, I would say mid 90s, society was very liberal with the word. One of our most famous pastries to quickly whip together was named "N-word ball" and we had a candy called "N-word kiss". "We" obviously do not have the same traumatic relationship with the word and history as the US. But in the mid 90s "N-word ball" was changed into "chocolate ball", with protests of the "So silly, it has always been called that. It's not racist. Why change it?!"-variety.



We also have the example of Pippi Longstockings father being a "n-word king" somewhere on the other side of the world. This has also been changed. When discussing this change years ago with a friend, it was the first time I realized that we as a society, like the US had changed or started to change from saying the actual word to say "n-word" even in contexts of using it objectively and/or discussing said word. At least among some people. Perhaps younger, more progressive. Which my friend is.





But now to the point of this post. Today, I read in the news about a politician on the right (ofc) that has been exposed to be racist and praising Hitler etc.  And our biggest Newspaper "Aftonbladet", has masked what the politician said by using "n-word" ("n-ordet" in swedish) when describing her horrible opinions.

Swedish newspaper "Aftonbladet": 


 
While "Expressen". The second biggest newspaper. And the competitor to Aftonbladet - is not using "N-word" but the actual word with quotationmarks when quoting the politician.

Swedish newspaper "Expressen":



(Word pixelated by me)

Also on the video at the bottom, Expressen is using the full uncencored word when talking about it.


Which I found kind of interesting. At least it stood out to me, and made me think of this thread. In Sweden, I take it - how to relate to the spelling and use of the word is not set in stone. And using the word has not been voldemorted yet, or not voldemorted fully. With the two big newspapers choosing two different approaches. 

tempo_n_groove

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Here is something interesting regarding Sweden in all of this. Into the, I would say mid 90s, society was very liberal with the word. One of our most famous pastries to quickly whip together was named "N-word ball" and we had a candy called "N-word kiss". "We" obviously do not have the same traumatic relationship with the word and history as the US. But in the mid 90s "N-word ball" was changed into "chocolate ball", with protests of the "So silly, it has always been called that. It's not racist. Why change it?!"-variety.



We also have the example of Pippi Longstockings father being a "n-word king" somewhere on the other side of the world. This has also been changed. When discussing this change years ago with a friend, it was the first time I realized that we as a society, like the US had changed or started to change from saying the actual word to say "n-word" even in contexts of using it objectively and/or discussing said word. At least among some people. Perhaps younger, more progressive. Which my friend is.





But now to the point of this post. Today, I read in the news about a politician on the right (ofc) that has been exposed to be racist and praising Hitler etc.  And our biggest Newspaper "Aftonbladet", has masked what the politician said by using "n-word" ("n-ordet" in swedish) when describing her horrible opinions.

Swedish newspaper "Aftonbladet": 


 
While "Expressen". The second biggest newspaper. And the competitor to Aftonbladet - is not using "N-word" but the actual word with quotationmarks when quoting the politician.

Swedish newspaper "Expressen":



(Word pixelated by me)

Also on the video at the bottom, Expressen is using the full uncencored word when talking about it.


Which I found kind of interesting. At least it stood out to me, and made me think of this thread. In Sweden, I take it - how to relate to the spelling and use of the word is not set in stone. And using the word has not been voldemorted yet, or not voldemorted fully. With the two big newspapers choosing two different approaches. 

So a few things that stick out.  in Barbados they have a hot pepper called a N-pepper.  I thought that was horrible and one of the locals says to me, "that's what it's called, what else are we going to call it?!?" she was black and thought nothing of it.  That was 2008.

1997 in Alaska there is a capstan/winch that was nicknamed the N-head.  I asked the deckhand what's the other name for it, and found out it was called the capstan.  I called it the capstan.

In journalism if you use the word that someone else says you can get a pass.  You can't directly use it yourself though.  Those days are over.

Spiritual_Chaos

tempo_n_groove said:

You can't directly use it yourself though.  Those days are over.

That is an American thing should be noted (I presume). You also use "beeps" on swearwords on TV and have Jimmy Fallon blush like if his show is aired live, etc. Might be a cultural correlation regarding "words" and the use of them, that differ from other places on earth. 

I am not using the word over here. But in Sweden as a whole today, I assume it is said in full when the word is mentioned more often than not. Here it is a "horrible word" and not to be used in a racist/horrible manner towards black people. But it is still not a word uniquely removed from all other words in the dictionary, like it has been culturally decided to be in the US.

And not using the word comes from (I assume) an American influence and not from there having been a discussion and a consensus reached here in Sweden about not saying it. I have never heard of a word in itself, being forbidden to utter here.

But could be a discussion has been had that I have missed. Or that it is just gliding towards accepting the American treatment of the word by itself. or there will be a divide, like with how Aftonbladet and Expressen chooses to treat it.

Would be interesting to hear how it is in other parts of the world and other countries in Europe.

Spiritual_Chaos

OP-ed from this year, in Sweden's second biggest morningpaper:

The Swedish n-ord is borrowed from the English n-word, a word that has been in use in the United States since the 1990s. There are several examples from the US where academic teachers in discussions of prejudice have used the word "the n-word" as an example and have endured vicious criticism for this.

A decade or so later, the same feelings and attitudes appear in Sweden. We have borrowed not only the n-word but also the feelings of offence that developed in the United State

There are also several cases in Sweden where teachers have been reported and opposed for saying "the n-word" instead of n-word when they talk about discrimination and racism. On a television broadcast, I heard a young student say that she did not feel safe  because a teacher had mentioned the n-word.


The Swedish Academy's glossary (SAOL) has not yet included the word "n-word", but it is likely to be included soon. The word "the n-word", on the other hand, is included and given the following description: "(disparaged.) male person with dark skin. Rather use black (person)."

In similarly sober ways, SAOL describes words like "gypsy" (rom) and "lapp" (sami). The words can be used offensively, but they are a part of the language, and we need to be able to speak about them.

Mentioning a certain word is not the same as using said word about other people.

Ordet n-ordet är ett noaord | GP

lastexitlondon

Its not used here unless by people of colour and in music which i fund ridiculous. Dont use it full stop.

Spiritual_Chaos

Lerxst1992

https://youtu.be/9KgNaRQ_J-c

Good song from Gary Clark Jr, I was going to see him a month ago but friend got sick. Was confused if I was allowed to sing along.

tempo_n_groove

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Well, freedom of speech is just that but it will have consequences.

Malroth

https://youtu.be/D0UbVcKal3I

tempo_n_groove

Malroth said:

https://youtu.be/D0UbVcKal3I

OMG that was actually funny. Ha!

Spiritual_Chaos

mickeyrat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

wrong subforum and thread

Lerxst1992

mickeyrat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

wrong subforum and thread

Use his illusion

tempo_n_groove

Spiritual_Chaos said:

One in a Million is my favorite song by them.  There are a few too many slurs in this song that got them in trouble though.