CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He's not asking for a compromise; he's asking me to compromise.
Guilty as charged. "All or none" isn't working too well.
Curious...what currently living US citizen would you like to see be president?
I'm an anarcho-communist.
Not sure who is a leading US personality in that area. How far outside of that philosophy can you vote? Because I don't see one getting elected to, well, anything in the enforceable future.
Generally speaking, I do not vote. I consider voting a form of violence (that statement should go over well here). After much soul-searching, I did vote in the 2016 presidential election, however.
I don't think that statement would go over well anywhere. How is voting a form of violence?
It's a hit at parties!
Majoritarian rule is a form of violence; ergo, voting is a form of violence.
This is one of the starangest posts I've ever read on this board (and that's saying something). First off, as the 2016 election showed, it's not about majoritarian because Trump didn't get a majority of the votes. Secondly, what the hell type of system would you prefer if you think voting is a form of violence? Dictatorships? Monarchies?
See above: anarcho-communism.
Da fuck is anarcho communism? Is that like lord of the flies?
Don’t you teach history?
In fairness, not many history teachers study something that was in place for about a week in a few Spanish provinces.
Graham literally said "da fuck?" at this moment...
But Graham plays a tool in the film, does he not?
Everyone is a tool in the movie, even "Tim".
Okey. So him in all fairness saying "da fuck" then doesn't really support your argument.
Sure it does.. and it's a joke. McGruff said "da fuck" which is short for What the fuck? And that's what Graham said "What?" when "Dennis" explained their anarcho-commie bent.
He's not asking for a compromise; he's asking me to compromise.
Guilty as charged. "All or none" isn't working too well.
Curious...what currently living US citizen would you like to see be president?
I'm an anarcho-communist.
Not sure who is a leading US personality in that area. How far outside of that philosophy can you vote? Because I don't see one getting elected to, well, anything in the enforceable future.
Generally speaking, I do not vote. I consider voting a form of violence (that statement should go over well here). After much soul-searching, I did vote in the 2016 presidential election, however.
I don't think that statement would go over well anywhere. How is voting a form of violence?
It's a hit at parties!
Majoritarian rule is a form of violence; ergo, voting is a form of violence.
This is one of the starangest posts I've ever read on this board (and that's saying something). First off, as the 2016 election showed, it's not about majoritarian because Trump didn't get a majority of the votes. Secondly, what the hell type of system would you prefer if you think voting is a form of violence? Dictatorships? Monarchies?
See above: anarcho-communism.
Da fuck is anarcho communism? Is that like lord of the flies?
Don’t you teach history?
In fairness, not many history teachers study something that was in place for about a week in a few Spanish provinces.
Graham literally said "da fuck?" at this moment...
But Graham plays a tool in the film, does he not?
Everyone is a tool in the movie, even "Tim".
Okey. So him in all fairness saying "da fuck" then doesn't really support your argument.
Sure it does.. and it's a joke. McGruff said "da fuck" which is short for What the fuck? And that's what Graham said "What?" when "Dennis" explained their anarcho-commie bent.
Ah, ok. gotcha.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.
And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?
Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.
And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
I don't see how him attacking people cozying up to billionaires (this being Biden and Pete) is off-brand or surprising.
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
And how about this quote from Trump...
And for his part, Trump has begun incorporating Sanders into his stump speech, repeatedly asserting that he'll attempt to build on Sanders' characterizations of Clinton.
"Bernie Sanders has a message that's interesting," Trump told "Morning Joe" last month. "I'm going to be taking a lot of the things that Bernie said and using them."
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
I don't see how him attacking people cozying up to billionaires (this being Biden and Pete) is off-brand or surprising.
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH.
Because this is a primary, not a general election.
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
I don't see how him attacking people cozying up to billionaires (this being Biden and Pete) is off-brand or surprising.
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH.
Because this is a primary, not a general election.
So, then is Biden allowed to say that Mayor Pete can not be President because he's just been a small-town mayor. Or is Biden allowed to say that someone who will be branded a socialist should not be the nominee?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
Where is the character assasination from Bernie in this article?
Seriously? There's quotes all over the article like this one... and this is just one article. Sanders is not contrasting himself on the policy front with Clinton. This is what you do in the primary. You split some hairs, say you're better in the general, but hey...we're all on the same team. But not Sanders.
"Secretary Clinton has exploited the rules in ways that let her high-dollar donors like Alice Walton of Walmart fame and the actor George Clooney and his super-rich Hollywood friends skirt legal limits on campaign contributions," Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said.
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CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
Where is the character assasination from Bernie in this article?
Seriously? There's quotes all over the article like this one... and this is just one article. Sanders is not contrasting himself on the policy front with Clinton. This is what you do in the primary. You split some hairs, say you're better in the general, but hey...we're all on the same team. But not Sanders.
"Secretary Clinton has exploited the rules in ways that let her high-dollar donors like Alice Walton of Walmart fame and the actor George Clooney and his super-rich Hollywood friends skirt legal limits on campaign contributions," Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said.
Well if she did, then the criticism is fair(?)
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
I don't see how him attacking people cozying up to billionaires (this being Biden and Pete) is off-brand or surprising.
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH.
Because this is a primary, not a general election.
So, then is Biden allowed to say that Mayor Pete can not be President because he's just been a small-town mayor. Or is Biden allowed to say that someone who will be branded a socialist should not be the nominee?
You can/should say "I'm a better choice because I have the experience that X doesn't have. I'm prepared, blah blah.." That's not damaging the other candidates, that's elevating yourself. No problem. The socialist one is tricky, depending on how it's positioned. If Biden said "Socialists are communists, and we've seen that in 100 years of communism, that's a corrupt system", I would call that completely out of bounds and dirty. If he said, "I agree with many of Bernie's policies, to one degree or another, but I'm concerned about whether he could attract the independents necessary to win in a general election".. I'd say that's not great, but not terrible.
CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
Where is the character assasination from Bernie in this article?
Seriously? There's quotes all over the article like this one... and this is just one article. Sanders is not contrasting himself on the policy front with Clinton. This is what you do in the primary. You split some hairs, say you're better in the general, but hey...we're all on the same team. But not Sanders.
"Secretary Clinton has exploited the rules in ways that let her high-dollar donors like Alice Walton of Walmart fame and the actor George Clooney and his super-rich Hollywood friends skirt legal limits on campaign contributions," Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said.
Well if she did, then the criticism is fair(?)
1. No, I would argue it isn't fair. She followed the law, yet he positioned it as "exploited" "skirt legal limits". These are all loaded terms. 2. Again, this is about what's right and proper during the primary season, where you need the party to coalesce at the end of the primary season. Bernie seeks to damage his opponent. You simply don't do that if you want to win in the general.
Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.
And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?
Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.
And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?
Can you?
Yes. Is it perfect? No.
The Bill of Rights was designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. That's straight from the Federalist Papers and Montesquieu.
Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.
And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?
Can you?
Yes. Is it perfect? No.
The Bill of Rights was designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. That's straight from the Federalist Papers and Montesquieu.
I get it but it seems some want to burn it all down.
Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.
And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?
Can you?
Yes. Is it perfect? No.
The Bill of Rights was designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. That's straight from the Federalist Papers and Montesquieu.
I get it but it seems some want to burn it all down.
I know you do.. I was adding on to your reply, not contrasting it.
Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.
And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?
This page has a super-cool graphic where you can see how the recent polling has Pete pulling from Biden and then from undecided voters to pull into a dead heat with Bernie. I think Warren is on life support. If she can't win in IA and NH, where does she win? Anyway, check it out. Hopefully it works on a phone.
I think Bernie and Bidens fear of Pete will push him even further into the spotlight. And Pete will act and look like the winner after tonights debate. He will also seriously threaten Bernie in NH. Bernie will underperform, and Pete overperform.
The dream of Bernie and the decency of social democracy is over.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,417
Two threads now and I can't stop laughing. You guys are crackin' me up today. Take good care of each other, ok?
@kat I feel like we could really come together as a group if we all sat next to each other at the Apollo Show. Anyway to hook us up with some tickets? Much love, 10C member 139682
I'm willing to give it a go
I can drive the bus..... after I get the passenger endorsement..... simple knowledge test.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
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Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-indiana-polls-attacks-2016-5
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH.
And for his part, Trump has begun incorporating Sanders into his stump speech, repeatedly asserting that he'll attempt to build on Sanders' characterizations of Clinton.
"Bernie Sanders has a message that's interesting," Trump told "Morning Joe" last month. "I'm going to be taking a lot of the things that Bernie said and using them."
"Secretary Clinton has exploited the rules in ways that let her high-dollar donors like Alice Walton of Walmart fame and the actor George Clooney and his super-rich Hollywood friends skirt legal limits on campaign contributions," Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said.
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2. Again, this is about what's right and proper during the primary season, where you need the party to coalesce at the end of the primary season. Bernie seeks to damage his opponent. You simply don't do that if you want to win in the general.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/02/07/metro/pete-buttiegieg-continues-surge-nh-polling/
The dream of Bernie and the decency of social democracy is over.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14