I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Super Tuesday will be the most telling regarding support. NH and Iowa are anomalies and are by no means representative of the nation or Democratic Party as a whole. Super Tuesday and the other big primary day that comes after are really what’s important. We’ll see how Bernie does then.
How is our lord and savior polling in these states?
Team Trump Treason? No idea but I saw that those favoring removing him from office was higher than his approval rating in key battleground states. A good sign I would think. And 59% of women and 40% of men wanted him removed from office, which if that translates to not pulling the lever for him and using census data from 2018 on total numbers of each gender who voted, again some margin of error has to be included, translates into approximately 60 million people not voting for him. Again, bodes well.
Super Tuesday will be the most telling regarding support. NH and Iowa are anomalies and are by no means representative of the nation or Democratic Party as a whole. Super Tuesday and the other big primary day that comes after are really what’s important. We’ll see how Bernie does then.
How is our lord and savior polling in these states?
Team Trump Treason? No idea but I saw that those favoring removing him from office was higher than his approval rating in key battleground states. A good sign I would think. And 59% of women and 40% of men wanted him removed from office, which if that translates to not pulling the lever for him and using census data from 2018 on total numbers of each gender who voted, again some margin of error has to be included, translates into approximately 60 million people not voting for him. Again, bodes well.
PS: there is no god, lord or savior.
BLASPHEMER!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated. I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated. I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.
@benjs , thought I read you were seeking or have gained US citizenship? Do I have that right?
I ask because I find you to be intelligent, thoughtful, critically thinking, and a host of other positive attributes. You are the kind of voter in general I personally welcome, no matter your politics....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated. I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.
Sanders deal with the country should be his type of wholesale change takes far far more than one election. This new far left wing would have to repeatedly win year after year. Voters will need to be told that long term patience is required. The only way congress supports sanders type of change is if they see voters are for real fed up with the corporations and wealthy taking 99% of the American pie.
But the interests of wealth succeed every time in breaking up a far left agenda because the masses have short attention spans and can be easily swayed.
Clinton was a popular President in a good economy but voters ran right back to the GOP when his two terms were up, and even voted against his party in the midterms. Same exact scenario with Obama
@benjs , thought I read you were seeking or have gained US citizenship? Do I have that right?
I ask because I find you to be intelligent, thoughtful, critically thinking, and a host of other positive attributes. You are the kind of voter in general I personally welcome, no matter your politics....
Thanks Mickeyrat, appreciate it! I'm a dual citizen automatically as my dad hadn't revoked his US citizenship when I was born in Canada, I just don't have any legal US ID of any form. No SS number, haven't filed taxes there, no passport, etc.
That said, great thing about the internet is it doesn't really matter where I am. One of my goals for this year is to toughen up and post content on Medium - mostly politics, analytics, data science, programming - pretty much anything but sports. Hopefully I can come up with some stuff that resonates with others!
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated. I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.
I'm not too sure that enough Democrats would lurch left (but I definitely think you're right many will). I think many would 'get with the times' because that's what politicians do, but I still feel that a material Democratic voter base is looking for them to remain fairly centered instead of pivoting left, and that enough Congresspersons would have their own careers at risk if they don't stay center.
I also think that both the center Democrat position and the left Democrat position are both being weakened by the presence of candidates within the opposite lane. The harm of attacking a candidate's position through this drawn out and sometimes petty primary, is that if the positions are generic enough, it could make that vision look less attractive itself.
On the pragmatism buffer, I hear where you're coming from, but from a purely statistical perspective, if I don't believe a candidate is statistically likely to execute on their vision, no matter how much I believe in that vision doesn't change that likelihood of attainability. If I wasn't such a stats nerd, maybe that wouldn't be the case though!
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
@benjs , thought I read you were seeking or have gained US citizenship? Do I have that right?
I ask because I find you to be intelligent, thoughtful, critically thinking, and a host of other positive attributes. You are the kind of voter in general I personally welcome, no matter your politics....
Thanks Mickeyrat, appreciate it! I'm a dual citizen automatically as my dad hadn't revoked his US citizenship when I was born in Canada, I just don't have any legal US ID of any form. No SS number, haven't filed taxes there, no passport, etc.
That said, great thing about the internet is it doesn't really matter where I am. One of my goals for this year is to toughen up and post content on Medium - mostly politics, analytics, data science, programming - pretty much anything but sports. Hopefully I can come up with some stuff that resonates with others!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated. I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.
I'm not too sure that enough Democrats would lurch left (but I definitely think you're right many will). I think many would 'get with the times' because that's what politicians do, but I still feel that a material Democratic voter base is looking for them to remain fairly centered instead of pivoting left, and that enough Congresspersons would have their own careers at risk if they don't stay center.
I also think that both the center Democrat position and the left Democrat position are both being weakened by the presence of candidates within the opposite lane. The harm of attacking a candidate's position through this drawn out and sometimes petty primary, is that if the positions are generic enough, it could make that vision look less attractive itself.
On the pragmatism buffer, I hear where you're coming from, but from a purely statistical perspective, if I don't believe a candidate is statistically likely to execute on their vision, no matter how much I believe in that vision doesn't change that likelihood of attainability. If I wasn't such a stats nerd, maybe that wouldn't be the case though!
On your first 2 paragraphs, I agree with the overall premise. I think by and large we're a centrist country that wobbles a little left or right at times. But if Bernie Sanders won the primary and got elected President, we'd need to take a harder look at that. (I still don't see it happening. I feel like he has a ceiling and benefits from a crowded field.)
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated. I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.
I'm not too sure that enough Democrats would lurch left (but I definitely think you're right many will). I think many would 'get with the times' because that's what politicians do, but I still feel that a material Democratic voter base is looking for them to remain fairly centered instead of pivoting left, and that enough Congresspersons would have their own careers at risk if they don't stay center.
I also think that both the center Democrat position and the left Democrat position are both being weakened by the presence of candidates within the opposite lane. The harm of attacking a candidate's position through this drawn out and sometimes petty primary, is that if the positions are generic enough, it could make that vision look less attractive itself.
On the pragmatism buffer, I hear where you're coming from, but from a purely statistical perspective, if I don't believe a candidate is statistically likely to execute on their vision, no matter how much I believe in that vision doesn't change that likelihood of attainability. If I wasn't such a stats nerd, maybe that wouldn't be the case though!
On your first 2 paragraphs, I agree with the overall premise. I think by and large we're a centrist country that wobbles a little left or right at times. But if Bernie Sanders won the primary and got elected President, we'd need to take a harder look at that. (I still don't see it happening. I feel like he has a ceiling and benefits from a crowded field.)
I think rank and file house members would have to move left. If Sanders was elected, that means that's the direction the country wants.
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated. I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.
I'm not too sure that enough Democrats would lurch left (but I definitely think you're right many will). I think many would 'get with the times' because that's what politicians do, but I still feel that a material Democratic voter base is looking for them to remain fairly centered instead of pivoting left, and that enough Congresspersons would have their own careers at risk if they don't stay center.
I also think that both the center Democrat position and the left Democrat position are both being weakened by the presence of candidates within the opposite lane. The harm of attacking a candidate's position through this drawn out and sometimes petty primary, is that if the positions are generic enough, it could make that vision look less attractive itself.
On the pragmatism buffer, I hear where you're coming from, but from a purely statistical perspective, if I don't believe a candidate is statistically likely to execute on their vision, no matter how much I believe in that vision doesn't change that likelihood of attainability. If I wasn't such a stats nerd, maybe that wouldn't be the case though!
On your first 2 paragraphs, I agree with the overall premise. I think by and large we're a centrist country that wobbles a little left or right at times. But if Bernie Sanders won the primary and got elected President, we'd need to take a harder look at that. (I still don't see it happening. I feel like he has a ceiling and benefits from a crowded field.)
I think rank and file house members would have to move left. If Sanders was elected, that means that's the direction the country wants.
It takes much more than winning one election to bring the change Sanders wants
Not enough Americans have the patience required to stay loyal and repeatedly vote for systemic Sanders style change
I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I thought we had each other on ignore?
Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question.
For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left?
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I'll answer your question in the abstract:
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
Makes sense. I believe in voting for the person who's most likely to move the marker towards a nation aligned with my views (or who can educate me most on why my views should be aligned with theirs), but to each their own!
To your point, though, if someone is a Sanders supporter does Trump or Biden move that marker in any appreciable way?
I think Biden would make marginal shifts in that direction. For a year now he's been publicly scrutinized for his record and has had to look into the camera sheepishly during debates as he was called out for positions and behaviours that today, wouldn't be tolerated. I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
I definitely see your point. The way I've always looked at it is a buffer of say 30 points to allow for pragmatism. If I agree with a 3rd party candidate 90%, but a major party candidate 60% then yeah I'll take the dive.
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.
I'm not too sure that enough Democrats would lurch left (but I definitely think you're right many will). I think many would 'get with the times' because that's what politicians do, but I still feel that a material Democratic voter base is looking for them to remain fairly centered instead of pivoting left, and that enough Congresspersons would have their own careers at risk if they don't stay center.
I also think that both the center Democrat position and the left Democrat position are both being weakened by the presence of candidates within the opposite lane. The harm of attacking a candidate's position through this drawn out and sometimes petty primary, is that if the positions are generic enough, it could make that vision look less attractive itself.
On the pragmatism buffer, I hear where you're coming from, but from a purely statistical perspective, if I don't believe a candidate is statistically likely to execute on their vision, no matter how much I believe in that vision doesn't change that likelihood of attainability. If I wasn't such a stats nerd, maybe that wouldn't be the case though!
On your first 2 paragraphs, I agree with the overall premise. I think by and large we're a centrist country that wobbles a little left or right at times. But if Bernie Sanders won the primary and got elected President, we'd need to take a harder look at that. (I still don't see it happening. I feel like he has a ceiling and benefits from a crowded field.)
I think rank and file house members would have to move left. If Sanders was elected, that means that's the direction the country wants.
It takes much more than winning one election to bring the change Sanders wants
Not enough Americans have the patience required to stay loyal and repeatedly vote for systemic Sanders style change
I'm not saying the laws would be passed, the Senate would go along, or anything like that. But I am agreeing with the earlier point that an electoral win by Sanders would pull the House left, for sure.
Tulsi is a wack job. It is also time for Hillary to be put out to pasture. These two idiots aren't doing the party any favors. Hilarious that Hillary, one of the least liked presidential nominees in US history, is talking about Bernie's likability (or lack thereof). Laughable. And I'm not sure how Gabbard is a Dem. Neither of them deserve any more attention.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
" Senators from three states have introduced legislation to lift
federal protections for gray wolves in Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin and
Michigan and return responsibility for managing those populations to
the states.
The bill introduced Tuesday comes from senators Ron Johnson
and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, John Barrasso and Enzi of Wyoming, and
Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota."
" Senators from three states have introduced legislation to lift
federal protections for gray wolves in Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin and
Michigan and return responsibility for managing those populations to
the states.
The bill introduced Tuesday comes from senators Ron Johnson
and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, John Barrasso and Enzi of Wyoming, and
Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota."
" Senators from three states have introduced legislation to lift
federal protections for gray wolves in Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin and
Michigan and return responsibility for managing those populations to
the states.
The bill introduced Tuesday comes from senators Ron Johnson
and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, John Barrasso and Enzi of Wyoming, and
Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota."
to be fair, isn't the entire premise of how the US was formed was to give states their own power to legislate?
There really isn't enough information here to draw any conclusions. Perhaps Minnesota now has an excess of wolves and they want to control the population, but Wisconsin still has an issue. And so the federal restriction is not working here. Perhaps it really is a state control issue for all of them. It's hard to say. But generally speaking, I think there are times where culling the herd, as it were, is actual good management of a species. So I would not personally write off Amy for this issue without knowing a lot more than was represented in this 30 word article.
" Senators from three states have introduced legislation to lift
federal protections for gray wolves in Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin and
Michigan and return responsibility for managing those populations to
the states.
The bill introduced Tuesday comes from senators Ron Johnson
and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, John Barrasso and Enzi of Wyoming, and
Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota."
to be fair, isn't the entire premise of how the US was formed was to give states their own power to legislate?
That's a good point HFD but there's one problem- wolves don't recognize political boundaries. They have been known to travel far and wide. I think their protection needs to be universal. Amy Klobuchar must not think so.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
" Senators from three states have introduced legislation to lift
federal protections for gray wolves in Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin and
Michigan and return responsibility for managing those populations to
the states.
The bill introduced Tuesday comes from senators Ron Johnson
and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, John Barrasso and Enzi of Wyoming, and
Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota."
to be fair, isn't the entire premise of how the US was formed was to give states their own power to legislate?
There really isn't enough information here to draw any conclusions. Perhaps Minnesota now has an excess of wolves and they want to control the population, but Wisconsin still has an issue. And so the federal restriction is not working here. Perhaps it really is a state control issue for all of them. It's hard to say. But generally speaking, I think there are times where culling the herd, as it were, is actual good management of a species. So I would not personally write off Amy for this issue without knowing a lot more than was represented in this 30 word article.
I see Joe Rogan is trending because he mentioned on his podcast that he will most likely vote for Bernie. People are losing their shit. calling him a white nationalist/homophobe/transphobe/racist, what the fuck? I've been following him for some time, and while I have agreed with some criticism about him giving platforms to hate groups/people and softballing questions, he's far from what he's being accused of by the far left. it's just incredible.
Comments
Killer Mike: 'I'm With the Revolutionary.
https://youtu.be/fk1la_qP3Jk
I vote for the candidate with the platform I agree with and go from there. If that person is elected, they can claim a mandate on certain issues and that's your best chance of getting some momentum. Look at all the people who have fallen in line with Trump. I don't think Congress is made up of dug-in ideologues.
But, again, I'm voting for the person that best reflects my views and will let them deal with how to accomplish their agenda.
PS: there is no god, lord or savior.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I think Trump moves the marker, just probably not in the direction most would see as compatible with Sanders'.
Edit: To add, I would take a proposal for marginal change that's plausible to come into fruition, over a bold, brave proposal for massive change that has a low probability of succeeding.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
But I still think you're underestimating the shift Congress would take if Sanders were elected. Sure, Republicans would dig in, but I think a ton of Democrats would lurch left. It's why I vote for the candidate I like without trying to divine what a couple hundred other legislators may or may not do.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But the interests of wealth succeed every time in breaking up a far left agenda because the masses have short attention spans and can be easily swayed.
That said, great thing about the internet is it doesn't really matter where I am. One of my goals for this year is to toughen up and post content on Medium - mostly politics, analytics, data science, programming - pretty much anything but sports. Hopefully I can come up with some stuff that resonates with others!
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I also think that both the center Democrat position and the left Democrat position are both being weakened by the presence of candidates within the opposite lane. The harm of attacking a candidate's position through this drawn out and sometimes petty primary, is that if the positions are generic enough, it could make that vision look less attractive itself.
On the pragmatism buffer, I hear where you're coming from, but from a purely statistical perspective, if I don't believe a candidate is statistically likely to execute on their vision, no matter how much I believe in that vision doesn't change that likelihood of attainability. If I wasn't such a stats nerd, maybe that wouldn't be the case though!
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It takes much more than winning one election to bring the change Sanders wants
Not enough Americans have the patience required to stay loyal and repeatedly vote for systemic Sanders style change
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/tulsi-gabbard-sues-hillary-clinton-for-dollar50m-over-russian-asset-remark/ar-BBZdFbS?ocid=spartanntp
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
The bill introduced Tuesday comes from senators Ron Johnson and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, John Barrasso and Enzi of Wyoming, and Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota."
NO FREAKIN' WAY!
www.headstonesband.com
That's a good point HFD but there's one problem- wolves don't recognize political boundaries. They have been known to travel far and wide. I think their protection needs to be universal. Amy Klobuchar must not think so.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com