honestly, i don't blame people for not being highly informed. the amount of effort it takes to wade through the bullshit and get the real deal is infuriating. most people are way too busy for that.
That's why I'm liking Yang more and more these days- less bullshit, more straightforward ideas based on good thinking. And he's the only one who has avoided all the usual mudslinging bullshit and stuck to the issues- one very big reason I can't no longer get behind the front runners.
Perhaps im wrong but I don't recall Pete, Joe or Amy launching any attacks on Democrats either. Bernie, Warren, Booker, and Kamela all did so. I admittedly haven't taken Yang seriously, but I enjoyed him on Maher this week.
I shouldn't generalize- some for sure have done much less negative campaigning than others. I hadn't taken Yang very seriously either but after spending a lot more time listening to him, I'm stoked. I really like this guy and what he says. For example, Yang a said he believes "the American people are looking for a commander-in-chief with the right temperament, judgement, and values."
I don't agree with her, and believe she knows what she's saying isn't the case. The problem isn't that the Democratic Party is one or the other, the problem is that there are two factions within the Democratic Party - one is a left party, the other is closer to center. The leftness of the party's policy, in the polarized climate seen today, will in all likelihood have an inverse relationship with getting the votes in either elections, or for having bills passed in the House or Senate. If I were in charge of the Democratic Party's vision planning, my mind would go right to this conundrum and it looks to me like there are three potential options:
1) Target the center, be seen as reasonable from a political compromise perspective, appeal from center-left to center-right 2) Continue to not discuss the multiple factions, and dilute/contradict messaging/impact from the center and messaging/impact from the left, and risk credibility posing as both simultaneously (current state) 3) Target the left, risk voters from center-left to center-right, effectively abandon the right (and truly embolden their voters to oppose), ram bills through with Executive Order, hope for their stickiness so the next President would be unpopular to void those Orders
SC, I agree with your vision, I just think the brute force method you propose of instituting change to align with that vision will never amount to that vision being realized, and an incremental approach is necessary. Votes are the currency on which change is bought, and your vision today doesn't have the votes.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
mrussel1 said: And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.
mrussel1 said: And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.
I'd consider voting for Bernie, that doesn't make him my preferred. That poll means nothing. You pull the lever for one candidate, no matter how many you would consider. In every poll I've seen, Biden wins AA votes convincingly.
I don't agree with her, and believe she knows what she's saying isn't the case. The problem isn't that the Democratic Party is one or the other, the problem is that there are two factions within the Democratic Party - one is a left party, the other is closer to center. The leftness of the party's policy, in the polarized climate seen today, will in all likelihood have an inverse relationship with getting the votes in either elections, or for having bills passed in the House or Senate. If I were in charge of the Democratic Party's vision planning, my mind would go right to this conundrum and it looks to me like there are three potential options:
1) Target the center, be seen as reasonable from a political compromise perspective, appeal from center-left to center-right 2) Continue to not discuss the multiple factions, and dilute/contradict messaging/impact from the center and messaging/impact from the left, and risk credibility posing as both simultaneously (current state) 3) Target the left, risk voters from center-left to center-right, effectively abandon the right (and truly embolden their voters to oppose), ram bills through with Executive Order, hope for their stickiness so the next President would be unpopular to void those Orders
SC, I agree with your vision, I just think the brute force method you propose of instituting change to align with that vision will never amount to that vision being realized, and an incremental approach is necessary. Votes are the currency on which change is bought, and your vision today doesn't have the votes.
It's silly for her to call it center conservative. Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States. Because I'd the electoral college, it's essentially political suicide to splinter a party. Every election, best case would be resolved in the HOR, and it would take a generation (and for the Republicans to split) to create an effective left coalition. I don't think we want all of our POTUS elections resolved there. So, either AOC needs to get comfortable with the big tent or exit.
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western Europe
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western Europe
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western Europe
cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point -- i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.
Lol.
"Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"
- Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.
- But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!
Solid point.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western Europe
cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point -- i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.
Lol.
"Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"
- Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.
- But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!
Solid point.
Yeah, that’s right. That’s the world political stage. Reality sucks.
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western Europe
cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point -- i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.
Lol.
"Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"
- Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.
- But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!
Solid point.
Yeah, that’s right. That’s the world political stage. Reality sucks.
Lol. Sure thing.
very solid.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western Europe
cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point -- i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.
Lol.
"Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"
- Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.
- But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!
Solid point.
Yeah, that’s right. That’s the world political stage. Reality sucks.
Lol. Sure thing.
very solid.
It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument. It’s easy to resort to snark. But it’s not my point, it is hers. And I think it’s incorrect as stated. It’s also irrelevant. She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants. But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit. Because her view is the minority view as of today. The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern. How’d that work out?
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western Europe
cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point -- i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.
Lol.
"Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"
- Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.
- But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!
Solid point.
Yeah, that’s right. That’s the world political stage. Reality sucks.
Lol. Sure thing.
very solid.
It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument. It’s easy to resort to snark. But it’s not my point, it is hers. And I think it’s incorrect as stated. It’s also irrelevant. She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants. But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit. Because her view is the minority view as of today. The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern. How’d that work out?
Journalist: The unemployment-numbers here are quite high, how are you gonna fix that?
Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?
Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
honestly, i don't blame people for not being highly informed. the amount of effort it takes to wade through the bullshit and get the real deal is infuriating. most people are way too busy for that.
That's why I'm liking Yang more and more these days- less bullshit, more straightforward ideas based on good thinking. And he's the only one who has avoided all the usual mudslinging bullshit and stuck to the issues- one very big reason I can't no longer get behind the front runners.
Perhaps im wrong but I don't recall Pete, Joe or Amy launching any attacks on Democrats either. Bernie, Warren, Booker, and Kamela all did so. I admittedly haven't taken Yang seriously, but I enjoyed him on Maher this week.
I shouldn't generalize- some for sure have done much less negative campaigning than others. I hadn't taken Yang very seriously either but after spending a lot more time listening to him, I'm stoked. I really like this guy and what he says. For example, Yang a said he believes "the American people are looking for a commander-in-chief with the right temperament, judgement, and values."
Good for Bernie for apologizing, bad for Bernie for having created an environment where they think it's okay. Sanders people are always on the attack.
Agreed on both the good and bad. This is just not a good time for Dems to be bickering. That energy is better spend doing what it takes to defeat Trump... and then do even better than that by working to conserve environment, improve education, etc.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western Europe
cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point -- i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.
Lol.
"Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"
- Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.
- But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!
Solid point.
Yeah, that’s right. That’s the world political stage. Reality sucks.
Lol. Sure thing.
very solid.
It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument. It’s easy to resort to snark. But it’s not my point, it is hers. And I think it’s incorrect as stated. It’s also irrelevant. She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants. But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit. Because her view is the minority view as of today. The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern. How’d that work out?
Journalist: The unemployment-numbers here are quite high, how are you gonna fix that?
Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?
Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.
How does one make a statement that the party is center or center-conservative without making a comparison? When you say "unemployment is bad" that's clearly a comparison to a specific set of reasonably accepted metrics, like "Full employment is 4.5% and we're higher so unemployment is bad". So how does AOC say the party is center not left? Compared to what? This is basic debate 101 stuff here.
I don't know, but I think every democrat should welcome it. Maybe not the candidates who don't want Bloomberg PR, but it's good for us rank and file.
Yeah, it's kind of a double edged sword, though. If someone is advancing ideas or candidates you like, it's easy for one to welcome it. If it's something you dislike, it's easy for one to scream about the destructive influence of money in politics.
Comments
Good for Bernie for apologizing, bad for Bernie for having created an environment where they think it's okay. Sanders people are always on the attack.
1) Target the center, be seen as reasonable from a political compromise perspective, appeal from center-left to center-right
2) Continue to not discuss the multiple factions, and dilute/contradict messaging/impact from the center and messaging/impact from the left, and risk credibility posing as both simultaneously (current state)
3) Target the left, risk voters from center-left to center-right, effectively abandon the right (and truly embolden their voters to oppose), ram bills through with Executive Order, hope for their stickiness so the next President would be unpopular to void those Orders
SC, I agree with your vision, I just think the brute force method you propose of instituting change to align with that vision will never amount to that vision being realized, and an incremental approach is necessary. Votes are the currency on which change is bought, and your vision today doesn't have the votes.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Just as Many African-Americans Say They’d Consider Voting for Bernie Sanders as Joe Biden
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z3bnvw/exclusive-poll-just-as-many-african-americans-say-theyd-consider-voting-for-bernie-sanders-as-joe-biden
Replace "Freddy Krueger" with "Bernie Sanders", and "Bitch" with "Biden". And remove the part about Freddy being rude to his mom.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point -- i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.
Lol.
"Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"
- Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.
- But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!
Solid point.
very solid.
Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?
Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.
Agreed on both the good and bad. This is just not a good time for Dems to be bickering. That energy is better spend doing what it takes to defeat Trump... and then do even better than that by working to conserve environment, improve education, etc.
Feb. 7, I believe, yes?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I'm working on improving my memory... or at least maintaining what's left of it. You can Google it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This is basic debate 101 stuff here.