The Democratic Presidential Debates

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Comments

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,846
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    pjl44 said:
    pjhawks said:
    what is up with Bloomberg? seems to spending a lot of money but is he gaining any traction? 
    There is this theory:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-bloomberg-presidential-run-cheap-rates-anti-trump-ads-2019-11
    Following up on this theory. Is this guy running for President or does he want to pay candidate rates vs. super pac rates?


    I don't know, but I think every democrat should welcome it.  Maybe not the candidates who don't want Bloomberg PR, but it's good for us rank and file.  
    Yeah, it's kind of a double edged sword, though. If someone is advancing ideas or candidates you like, it's easy for one to welcome it. If it's something you dislike, it's easy for one to scream about the destructive influence of money in politics.
    I guess that could be true for any negative ad run.  I hope this is a way to break through to the non-engaged voters.  
  • mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:

     Her "comparison" must be European countries,  not the world political stage and certainly not the States. 
    So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison. 

    - The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.

    - In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!


    If you include China,  Russia,  Turkey,  Iran, and a host of African and ME nations,  it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative.  That's silly.  There's more to the world than Western Europe

    cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point --  i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.

    Lol. 

    "Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"

    - Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.

    - But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!


    Solid point.
    Yeah, that’s right.  That’s the world political stage.  Reality sucks.  
    Lol. Sure thing.

    very solid.
    It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument.  It’s easy to resort to snark.  But it’s not my point, it is hers.  And I think it’s incorrect as stated.  It’s also irrelevant.   She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants.  But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit.  Because her view is the minority view as of today.  The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern.  How’d that work out?
    Journalist: The unemployment-numbers here are quite high, how are you gonna fix that?

    Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?

    Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.



    How does one make a statement that the party is center or center-conservative without making a comparison?  When you say "unemployment is bad" that's clearly a comparison to a specific set of reasonably accepted metrics, like "Full employment is 4.5% and we're higher so unemployment is bad".  So how does AOC say the party is center not left?  Compared to what?  
    This is basic debate 101 stuff here.  
    I never claimed she is not making a comparison(?). 

    I wrote "the unemployment-numbers here are quite high" 
    She says "the democratic party over here is quite right"

    I am just over here in sanityville saying that throwing in Iran, China and/or Latveria to bolster an argument of "in comparison it's not so right winged after all" is quite:



    Her comparison and conclusion sounds a lot more apt. and less "clutching at dictatorship straws" than yours.

    And in seven hours it's Dance of the Clairvoyants time. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    pjl44 said:
    pjhawks said:
    what is up with Bloomberg? seems to spending a lot of money but is he gaining any traction? 
    There is this theory:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-bloomberg-presidential-run-cheap-rates-anti-trump-ads-2019-11
    Following up on this theory. Is this guy running for President or does he want to pay candidate rates vs. super pac rates?


    I don't know, but I think every democrat should welcome it.  Maybe not the candidates who don't want Bloomberg PR, but it's good for us rank and file.  
    Yeah, it's kind of a double edged sword, though. If someone is advancing ideas or candidates you like, it's easy for one to welcome it. If it's something you dislike, it's easy for one to scream about the destructive influence of money in politics.
    The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I guess.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,846
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:

     Her "comparison" must be European countries,  not the world political stage and certainly not the States. 
    So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison. 

    - The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.

    - In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!


    If you include China,  Russia,  Turkey,  Iran, and a host of African and ME nations,  it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative.  That's silly.  There's more to the world than Western Europe

    cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point --  i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.

    Lol. 

    "Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"

    - Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.

    - But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!


    Solid point.
    Yeah, that’s right.  That’s the world political stage.  Reality sucks.  
    Lol. Sure thing.

    very solid.
    It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument.  It’s easy to resort to snark.  But it’s not my point, it is hers.  And I think it’s incorrect as stated.  It’s also irrelevant.   She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants.  But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit.  Because her view is the minority view as of today.  The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern.  How’d that work out?
    Journalist: The unemployment-numbers here are quite high, how are you gonna fix that?

    Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?

    Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.



    How does one make a statement that the party is center or center-conservative without making a comparison?  When you say "unemployment is bad" that's clearly a comparison to a specific set of reasonably accepted metrics, like "Full employment is 4.5% and we're higher so unemployment is bad".  So how does AOC say the party is center not left?  Compared to what?  
    This is basic debate 101 stuff here.  
    I never claimed she is not making a comparison(?). 

    I wrote "the unemployment-numbers here are quite high" 
    She says "the democratic party over here is quite right"

    I am just over here in sanityville saying that throwing in Iran, China and/or Latveria to bolster an argument of "in comparison it's not so right winged after all" is quite:



    Her comparison and conclusion sounds a lot more apt. and less "clutching at dictatorship straws" than yours.

    And in seven hours it's Dance of the Clairvoyants time. 
    If she said "compared to western European democracies, our democratic party is not really left, it's more center-right", then I'd say.. yeah that's accurate.  I agree.  But she didn't say that.  It's not my fault that she can't speak with precision.  In the work I do, we speak with precision, and if you don't, you get your knees cut out.  My point is the same as it was and has been on the AOC page.  If she hates how "big tent" the party is, then GTFO.  I like it personally. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,579
    edited January 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:

     Her "comparison" must be European countries,  not the world political stage and certainly not the States. 
    So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison. 

    - The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.

    - In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!


    If you include China,  Russia,  Turkey,  Iran, and a host of African and ME nations,  it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative.  That's silly.  There's more to the world than Western Europe

    cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point --  i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.

    Lol. 

    "Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"

    - Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.

    - But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!


    Solid point.
    Yeah, that’s right.  That’s the world political stage.  Reality sucks.  
    Lol. Sure thing.

    very solid.
    It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument.  It’s easy to resort to snark.  But it’s not my point, it is hers.  And I think it’s incorrect as stated.  It’s also irrelevant.   She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants.  But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit.  Because her view is the minority view as of today.  The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern.  How’d that work out?
    Journalist: The unemployment-numbers here are quite high, how are you gonna fix that?

    Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?

    Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.



    How does one make a statement that the party is center or center-conservative without making a comparison?  When you say "unemployment is bad" that's clearly a comparison to a specific set of reasonably accepted metrics, like "Full employment is 4.5% and we're higher so unemployment is bad".  So how does AOC say the party is center not left?  Compared to what?  
    This is basic debate 101 stuff here.  
    I never claimed she is not making a comparison(?). 

    I wrote "the unemployment-numbers here are quite high" 
    She says "the democratic party over here is quite right"

    I am just over here in sanityville saying that throwing in Iran, China and/or Latveria to bolster an argument of "in comparison it's not so right winged after all" is quite:



    Her comparison and conclusion sounds a lot more apt. and less "clutching at dictatorship straws" than yours.

    And in seven hours it's Dance of the Clairvoyants time. 
    If she said "compared to western European democracies, our democratic party is not really left, it's more center-right", then I'd say.. yeah that's accurate.  I agree.  But she didn't say that.  It's not my fault that she can't speak with precision.  In the work I do, we speak with precision, and if you don't, you get your knees cut out.  My point is the same as it was and has been on the AOC page.  If she hates how "big tent" the party is, then GTFO.  I like it personally. 
    I would say that was implied. She talked about modern, major, civilised countries (obviously). Not countries run by Ming the Merciless and Skeletor. And choosing to attack her and choosing (as is my belief that you do) to focus on how she speaks is once again - pounding the table.

    I feel like you and I are going in circles like that scene in A Nightmare on Elm Street part 4: The Dream Master. 

    I don't remember how they snap out of it. They don't get to Debbie in time though . Lets hope we snap out of it before our Debbie gets it.


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,784
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    pjl44 said:
    pjhawks said:
    what is up with Bloomberg? seems to spending a lot of money but is he gaining any traction? 
    There is this theory:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-bloomberg-presidential-run-cheap-rates-anti-trump-ads-2019-11
    Following up on this theory. Is this guy running for President or does he want to pay candidate rates vs. super pac rates?


    I don't know, but I think every democrat should welcome it.  Maybe not the candidates who don't want Bloomberg PR, but it's good for us rank and file.  
    Yeah, it's kind of a double edged sword, though. If someone is advancing ideas or candidates you like, it's easy for one to welcome it. If it's something you dislike, it's easy for one to scream about the destructive influence of money in politics.
    I guess that could be true for any negative ad run.  I hope this is a way to break through to the non-engaged voters.  
    The amount spent per candidate thus far, though, has been....interesting 


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,846
    196mm???  Is that right? That's crazy!
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,846
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:

     Her "comparison" must be European countries,  not the world political stage and certainly not the States. 
    So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison. 

    - The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.

    - In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!


    If you include China,  Russia,  Turkey,  Iran, and a host of African and ME nations,  it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative.  That's silly.  There's more to the world than Western Europe

    cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point --  i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.

    Lol. 

    "Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"

    - Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.

    - But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!


    Solid point.
    Yeah, that’s right.  That’s the world political stage.  Reality sucks.  
    Lol. Sure thing.

    very solid.
    It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument.  It’s easy to resort to snark.  But it’s not my point, it is hers.  And I think it’s incorrect as stated.  It’s also irrelevant.   She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants.  But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit.  Because her view is the minority view as of today.  The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern.  How’d that work out?
    Journalist: The unemployment-numbers here are quite high, how are you gonna fix that?

    Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?

    Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.



    How does one make a statement that the party is center or center-conservative without making a comparison?  When you say "unemployment is bad" that's clearly a comparison to a specific set of reasonably accepted metrics, like "Full employment is 4.5% and we're higher so unemployment is bad".  So how does AOC say the party is center not left?  Compared to what?  
    This is basic debate 101 stuff here.  
    I never claimed she is not making a comparison(?). 

    I wrote "the unemployment-numbers here are quite high" 
    She says "the democratic party over here is quite right"

    I am just over here in sanityville saying that throwing in Iran, China and/or Latveria to bolster an argument of "in comparison it's not so right winged after all" is quite:



    Her comparison and conclusion sounds a lot more apt. and less "clutching at dictatorship straws" than yours.

    And in seven hours it's Dance of the Clairvoyants time. 
    If she said "compared to western European democracies, our democratic party is not really left, it's more center-right", then I'd say.. yeah that's accurate.  I agree.  But she didn't say that.  It's not my fault that she can't speak with precision.  In the work I do, we speak with precision, and if you don't, you get your knees cut out.  My point is the same as it was and has been on the AOC page.  If she hates how "big tent" the party is, then GTFO.  I like it personally. 
    I would say that was implied. She talked about modern, major, civilised countries (obviously). Not countries run by Ming the Merciless and Skeletor. And choosing to attack her and choosing (as is my belief that you do) to focus on how she speaks is once again - pounding the table.

    I feel like you and I are going in circles like that scene in A Nightmare on Elm Street part 4: The Dream Master. 

    I don't remember how they snap out of it. They don't get to Debbie in time though . Lets hope we snap out of it before our Debbie gets it.


    You could stop bringing in clips designed to elicit arguments.  That's one way to stop the loop. 
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,784
    mrussel1 said:
    196mm???  Is that right? That's crazy!
    Nuts, right? Here's the full article.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/797048821/new-figures-show-billionaire-candidates-spending-big-with-little-return
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,846
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    196mm???  Is that right? That's crazy!
    Nuts, right? Here's the full article.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/797048821/new-figures-show-billionaire-candidates-spending-big-with-little-return
    I posted the other day that collective Democrats have raised 3x than Trump.  Throw in Bloomberg and Steyer cash and you have a real gulf developing. Imagine if Bloomberg won the nomination... combine his cash with fundraising.  Astronomical numbers. 
  • mrussel1 said:
    196mm???  Is that right? That's crazy!
    When it’s all said and done, they anticipate ten billion plus in spending combined by both parties/candidates, etc. $10,000,000,000.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • At age 39, Mike Bloomberg was fired. 

    That’s all I remember from that commercial that played during the football playoffs.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,335
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:

     Her "comparison" must be European countries,  not the world political stage and certainly not the States. 
    So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison. 

    - The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.

    - In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!


    If you include China,  Russia,  Turkey,  Iran, and a host of African and ME nations,  it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative.  That's silly.  There's more to the world than Western Europe

    cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point --  i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.

    Lol. 

    "Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"

    - Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.

    - But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!


    Solid point.
    Yeah, that’s right.  That’s the world political stage.  Reality sucks.  
    Lol. Sure thing.

    very solid.
    It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument.  It’s easy to resort to snark.  But it’s not my point, it is hers.  And I think it’s incorrect as stated.  It’s also irrelevant.   She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants.  But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit.  Because her view is the minority view as of today.  The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern.  How’d that work out?
    Journalist: The unemployment-numbers here are quite high, how are you gonna fix that?

    Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?

    Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.



    How does one make a statement that the party is center or center-conservative without making a comparison?  When you say "unemployment is bad" that's clearly a comparison to a specific set of reasonably accepted metrics, like "Full employment is 4.5% and we're higher so unemployment is bad".  So how does AOC say the party is center not left?  Compared to what?  
    This is basic debate 101 stuff here.  

    It's gotta have something to do with that "two lefts don't make a right" thing maybe?

    I do think she has a point though.  There are members of the party that are left enough to be called left, but really, these days, most are playing it closer to the center, enough so that I don't think you can call the whole party "left" (and I'm not even sure what that means any more- time have changed!).
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,335
    mrussel1 said:
    196mm???  Is that right? That's crazy!

    Help me out here- what's that in inches or feet?  :wink:
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,765
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    pjl44 said:
    pjhawks said:
    what is up with Bloomberg? seems to spending a lot of money but is he gaining any traction? 
    There is this theory:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-bloomberg-presidential-run-cheap-rates-anti-trump-ads-2019-11
    Following up on this theory. Is this guy running for President or does he want to pay candidate rates vs. super pac rates?


    I don't know, but I think every democrat should welcome it.  Maybe not the candidates who don't want Bloomberg PR, but it's good for us rank and file.  
    Yeah, it's kind of a double edged sword, though. If someone is advancing ideas or candidates you like, it's easy for one to welcome it. If it's something you dislike, it's easy for one to scream about the destructive influence of money in politics.
    I guess that could be true for any negative ad run.  I hope this is a way to break through to the non-engaged voters.  
    The amount spent per candidate thus far, though, has been....interesting 




    Bloomberg is pissed trump is president and will spend 0.5% of his money to make sure that his presidency ends.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,765
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:

     Her "comparison" must be European countries,  not the world political stage and certainly not the States. 
    So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison. 

    - The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.

    - In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!


    If you include China,  Russia,  Turkey,  Iran, and a host of African and ME nations,  it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative.  That's silly.  There's more to the world than Western Europe

    cincybearcat says - you do have a solid point --  i guess, if you include severely broken and corrupt dictatorships or de facto dictatorships.

    Lol. 

    "Why compare with Europe when you can compare yourself to Russia"

    - Pearl Jam Backspacer was pretty bad compared to Nine Inch Nails latest album.

    - But not if you compare it to Rebecca Black!


    Solid point.
    Yeah, that’s right.  That’s the world political stage.  Reality sucks.  
    Lol. Sure thing.

    very solid.
    It’s tough when you don’t have a counter argument.  It’s easy to resort to snark.  But it’s not my point, it is hers.  And I think it’s incorrect as stated.  It’s also irrelevant.   She can walk around and complain that the Democratic Party isn’t elitist and narrow enough ideologically all she wants.  But it doesn’t change the fact that she needs to be a part of it or exit.  Because her view is the minority view as of today.  The party hasn’t nominated a far left candidate since McGovern.  How’d that work out?
    Journalist: The unemployment-numbers here are quite high, how are you gonna fix that?

    Politician: HAVE YOU SEEN NORTH KOREA?

    Journalist: True. World stage. unemployment-numbers are great. Solid even.



    How does one make a statement that the party is center or center-conservative without making a comparison?  When you say "unemployment is bad" that's clearly a comparison to a specific set of reasonably accepted metrics, like "Full employment is 4.5% and we're higher so unemployment is bad".  So how does AOC say the party is center not left?  Compared to what?  
    This is basic debate 101 stuff here.  
    I never claimed she is not making a comparison(?). 

    I wrote "the unemployment-numbers here are quite high" 
    She says "the democratic party over here is quite right"

    I am just over here in sanityville saying that throwing in Iran, China and/or Latveria to bolster an argument of "in comparison it's not so right winged after all" is quite:



    Her comparison and conclusion sounds a lot more apt. and less "clutching at dictatorship straws" than yours.

    And in seven hours it's Dance of the Clairvoyants time. 
    If she said "compared to western European democracies, our democratic party is not really left, it's more center-right", then I'd say.. yeah that's accurate.  I agree.  But she didn't say that.  It's not my fault that she can't speak with precision.  In the work I do, we speak with precision, and if you don't, you get your knees cut out.  My point is the same as it was and has been on the AOC page.  If she hates how "big tent" the party is, then GTFO.  I like it personally. 

    Perhaps we can ask her how many electoral votes these Western Europe countries have?

    as far as DotC, that’s probably more for the AOC generation than for me. Back to Fear Innoculum for me, if I can ever get that spelling correct. Apple can’t.
  • "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 39,515
    "one of the most annoying things to me....."


    hmmm....
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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,175
    I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left? 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • benjs said:
    I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left? 
    I thought we had each other on ignore?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,175
    benjs said:
    I'd still love to see your answer to my comment about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left? 
    I thought we had each other on ignore?
    Fair. I'll submit my question into the ether in that case, and see if anyone else cares enough about Sanders to answer my question. 

    For anyone able to answer, I'd love to hear any Sanders supporters' opinions about how Sanders gets a single bill passed in his presidency. It's not more than basic math/stats: if Republicans overwhelmingly vote along party lines, and even Democrats are splintered between their center identity and their left identity when it comes to supporting a bill, how does a Democrat win a majority today on the House or Senate floor with what's seen by the masses (not some dude called Spiritual_Chaos) as a radical shift to the left? 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • "radical"

    You should really put bunny ears around your radical.

    "radical"
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • But wait, maybe you meant radical like in the way the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are radical?


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,579
    edited January 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.
    Who in the race doesn't?
    @mrussel1

    The statement is a comparative of the candidates.  According to polling,  Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did. 
    Start reading more polls:

    Sanders has made gains nearly across the board, clearly pulling away from Warren among liberals (33% back Sanders, while 19% support Warren in the new poll), a group where the two had been running closely through much of the fall. Sanders has also pulled about even with Biden among voters of color (30% for Sanders, 27% for Biden).


    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/22/politics/cnn-poll-sanders-biden-january-national/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

    And lets all cheer for this:

    Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has improved his standing in the national Democratic race for president, joining former Vice President Joe Biden in a two-person top tier above the rest of the field, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

    The poll marks the first time Biden has not held a solo lead in CNN's national polling on the race.


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,846
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.
    Who in the race doesn't?
    @mrussel1

    The statement is a comparative of the candidates.  According to polling,  Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did. 
    Start reading more polls:

    Sanders has made gains nearly across the board, clearly pulling away from Warren among liberals (33% back Sanders, while 19% support Warren in the new poll), a group where the two had been running closely through much of the fall. Sanders has also pulled about even with Biden among voters of color (30% for Sanders, 27% for Biden).


    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/22/politics/cnn-poll-sanders-biden-january-national/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

    And lets all cheer for this:

    Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has improved his standing in the national Democratic race for president, joining former Vice President Joe Biden in a two-person top tier above the rest of the field, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

    The poll marks the first time Biden has not held a solo lead in CNN's national polling on the race.


    This poll was released this morning.  I wrote what I wrote yesterday.  This is why so many can't communicate with you.  
  • mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.
    Who in the race doesn't?
    @mrussel1

    The statement is a comparative of the candidates.  According to polling,  Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did. 
    Start reading more polls:

    Sanders has made gains nearly across the board, clearly pulling away from Warren among liberals (33% back Sanders, while 19% support Warren in the new poll), a group where the two had been running closely through much of the fall. Sanders has also pulled about even with Biden among voters of color (30% for Sanders, 27% for Biden).


    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/22/politics/cnn-poll-sanders-biden-january-national/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

    And lets all cheer for this:

    Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has improved his standing in the national Democratic race for president, joining former Vice President Joe Biden in a two-person top tier above the rest of the field, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

    The poll marks the first time Biden has not held a solo lead in CNN's national polling on the race.


    This poll was released this morning.  I wrote what I wrote yesterday.  This is why so many can't communicate with you.  
    I wrote "start reading more polls". Present tense.  Not "you should have read more polls yesterday"
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 9,887
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.
    Who in the race doesn't?
    @mrussel1

    The statement is a comparative of the candidates.  According to polling,  Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did. 
    Start reading more polls:

    Sanders has made gains nearly across the board, clearly pulling away from Warren among liberals (33% back Sanders, while 19% support Warren in the new poll), a group where the two had been running closely through much of the fall. Sanders has also pulled about even with Biden among voters of color (30% for Sanders, 27% for Biden).


    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/22/politics/cnn-poll-sanders-biden-january-national/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

    And lets all cheer for this:

    Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has improved his standing in the national Democratic race for president, joining former Vice President Joe Biden in a two-person top tier above the rest of the field, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

    The poll marks the first time Biden has not held a solo lead in CNN's national polling on the race.


    This poll was released this morning.  I wrote what I wrote yesterday.  This is why so many can't communicate with you.  
    I applaud your efforts. I think the ignore feature works fabulous though...
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Super Tuesday will be the most telling regarding support. NH and Iowa are anomalies and are by no means representative of the nation or Democratic Party as a whole. Super Tuesday and the other big primary day that comes after are really what’s important. We’ll see how Bernie does then.
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 39,515
    for a while there, we had some decent discourse going.....am reminded of the all in the family opening song.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Super Tuesday will be the most telling regarding support. NH and Iowa are anomalies and are by no means representative of the nation or Democratic Party as a whole. Super Tuesday and the other big primary day that comes after are really what’s important. We’ll see how Bernie does then.
    How is our lord and savior polling in these states?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
This discussion has been closed.