Hey how about those 2 missing Ten Club singles!

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  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,821
    my_wave said:
    jeffbr said:
    tdawe said:
    JimmyV said:
    JB16057 said:
    JimmyV said:
    The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened. 

    Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
    I hear you. I just suspect Tim was advised not to respond. But I could be wrong. 
    I haven’t been following this insane thread and don’t know the details. But I suspect that none of the Ten Club, the band, their advisors, some guy named Tim Bierman, any state AG or anyone affiliated with any state AG is paying this complaint any mind whatsoever. The purpose of any communications among any of the foregoing is not to crack the case of the missing singles (in the case of the AG) or to minimize or mitigate the material legal exposure presented by the fraudulently withheld singles (in the case of the band/club). It’s to get you to stop bothering everyone involved. 

    There’s been no communication because there’s nothing to communicate.
    You've hit the heart of the matter, and identified precisely why there is bitching. Why, after years of negligence has there been no action on this, thus "nothing to communicate?" Some guy named Tim Bierman (he runs 10c among other things, so not just some guy) specifically responded to the WA AG that these were in the process of being produced (whatever the hell that means). In Sept or Oct in the newsletter we were told they were forthcoming. If they're forthcoming or in any sort of production process, then there actually is something to communicate. Give us an update. Have the specific tracks even been selected yet? Mastered for vinyl? Sent out for pressing? In the test pressing phase waiting for sign-off? Waiting for shipment to the warehouse for distribution? At the warehouse ready to distribute? Packaged up and on their way to everyone? There are plenty of steps in getting these singles out to us, and at this point they should simply let us know what stage of production they're actually in, and what definition of forthcoming they're using. To say there's nothing to communicate is disingenuous. 
    forthcoming like that new album can't deny me is on
    Exactly. Forthcoming means nothing. 
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Windermere11Windermere11 EarthPosts: 111
    I cant stop laughing! Is this the "comedy" thread? Ya'll are killing me!
    This very moment, the AG, IG, FBI, CIA, SS, DOT, ICE, TSA and AARP task forces are swarming 10C HQ to make sure this MASSIVE injustice is resolved!! Reading the last few pages of this thread is way more entertaining than two 10C singles could ever be... 
    Best $40 I've spent all year!! Please continue...   
    Thank you Mike!!!
    90 12/22
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    92 1/3,17; 7/22; 9/20
    93 9/5; 10/25; 12/7,8,9
    95 6/24; 11/4
    98 7/10,11,13,14
    00 10/22,25,28,30
    03 6/2,3,5,6; 10/28
    06 7/6,7,9,10,12,13; 11/30; 12/2,9
    09 9/30; 10/1,6,7,9
    13 11/21,23,24
    14 10/25
    16 11/14
    18 8/8, 8/10 
  • BennyLaRueBennyLaRue Posts: 728
    Hey, the horsey sauce is just to keep us satiated while we wait. No one besmirch the horsey sauce, ok?
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 94
    tdawe said:
    jeffbr said:
    tdawe said:
    JimmyV said:
    JB16057 said:
    JimmyV said:
    The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened. 

    Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
    I hear you. I just suspect Tim was advised not to respond. But I could be wrong. 
    I haven’t been following this insane thread and don’t know the details. But I suspect that none of the Ten Club, the band, their advisors, some guy named Tim Bierman, any state AG or anyone affiliated with any state AG is paying this complaint any mind whatsoever. The purpose of any communications among any of the foregoing is not to crack the case of the missing singles (in the case of the AG) or to minimize or mitigate the material legal exposure presented by the fraudulently withheld singles (in the case of the band/club). It’s to get you to stop bothering everyone involved. 

    There’s been no communication because there’s nothing to communicate.
    You've hit the heart of the matter, and identified precisely why there is bitching. Why, after years of negligence has there been no action on this, thus "nothing to communicate?" Some guy named Tim Bierman (he runs 10c among other things, so not just some guy) specifically responded to the WA AG that these were in the process of being produced (whatever the hell that means). In Sept or Oct in the newsletter we were told they were forthcoming. If they're forthcoming or in any sort of production process, then there actually is something to communicate. Give us an update. Have the specific tracks even been selected yet? Mastered for vinyl? Sent out for pressing? In the test pressing phase waiting for sign-off? Waiting for shipment to the warehouse for distribution? At the warehouse ready to distribute? Packaged up and on their way to everyone? There are plenty of steps in getting these singles out to us, and at this point they should simply let us know what stage of production they're actually in, and what definition of forthcoming they're using. To say there's nothing to communicate is disingenuous. 
    No. Is that what you want to hear? I believe that’s the answer, and I also believe that the people who are claiming that all they want is “communication”, and that they would be satisfied with an official communication that said “we don’t want to just crap out a couple of random performances of Unthought Known so we don’t know what these are going to be yet much less when they’ll be out” are the ones who are being disingenuous. 
    In Tim's response to the AG, he said, "Dear xxxxxx-

     Thank you for forwarding along the complaint (#553030) for The Ten Club.

     Mr. xxxxxxx is correct in his complaint. Subscribing members are promised one (1) vinyl 7" per year. However there is not a "deliver by" date. These singles are dependent on the ability of the band to deliver music and art to complete production and distribution to the members. While the delay on these last two (2) singles has been significant, it doesn't fall outside of our offering to the subscribers. 

     We are in the process of producing these items and they will be delivered in due time. But because of the nature of creating vinyl records, there is not an exact date we can provide to the customers. 

     There is absolutely no reason to believe that these items won't be delivered.

     I'd like to apologize to those subscribers who have expressed frustration in the delay. 

     Thanks, Tim"


    Tim says that the singles are dependent on the ability of the band to deliver music and art. What has held the band back for over 2 years? They have more ability than any of us to do whatever they want. They chose to ignore the fan club members and their responsibilities. They could've easily communicated something, anything, but they still choose not to. That isn't a good business practice and it is not an acceptable way to treat fans. I don't really care to know why the long delay. It doesn't really matter because it is in the past.

    The part of the response that irks me is "because of the nature of creating vinyl records, there is not an exact date we can provide to the customers." Once again, this isn't being honest. It has been over 5 months since this response. Does it really take over 5 months to produce vinyl records or are you just trying to buy time by telling a lie? Are you really trying to tell me that when you order vinyl records to be created, they don't give you any kind of timeline on when to expect? Someone on the board stated that it can take between 4-6 months. Tim said this was the issue that they couldn't provide an exact date.

    I'm not happy that the band or 10c would treat fans like this but I have no problem with people that don't care. I'm not trying to tell anyone that they need to care but I don't know why someone would accuse others of being disingenuous when the band and 10c have clearly done so. I'll stand by what I say. All I want is communication. Why wouldn't they want to include the fans in the process? If they haven't started anything, why not just be honest about it? I have no doubts that they will deliver eventually but I've been a faithful fan club member for 24 years and I feel like they are disrespecting us by their actions and I'm calling them out for it. I don't care if this sign is too big.
  • BennyLaRueBennyLaRue Posts: 728
    What if you involving the AG is the very thing keeping them from being legally able to provide updates?

     :o 
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 94
    If the AG was actively involved, I would assume they would make the 10c communicate right away to correct the issue. It has been 5 months and they've been completely silent. I don't know about Washington state consumer laws and the only way to get information is to talk to a lawyer. The only issue they could have with the AG is that the 10c haven't delivered and the key is that they haven't communicated. The delivery of the items is not the issue, the lack of communication is. It's been over 2 years for the singles and over 3 years for DEEP.

    If the AG is the thing keeping them from communicating, I would say, YOU ARE WELCOME PEARL JAM! They haven't honestly communicating for over 3 years. With the AG being involved, they'd finally have a legitimate reason.

    Maybe that's not fair and there is some other legitimate reason. I still think we deserve some communication and I know that's not too much to ask.
  • I'm with all of yall fighting this..heck.. i might have had similar comments 2-3 years and 40 pages back, i'm not sure!

    The complaints about not communicating--- i dunno.. i feel the time required to communicate responsibly is very subjective.

    But there have been MULTIPLE announcements and pressings and releases of vinyl since we fronted them cash for product..so this is definitely sketchy. Don't insult us by saying it takes months on end to produce these things and them print Vaults and RSDs in the meantime. 

    To just give up and accept you've been screwed by the man and that 'first world problems' or 'it's just a bonus thing' seems counter the ideals of so many Encore Breaks i've listened and been a part of is insane.

    If this weren't them... I suspect THEY'D want you to fight it. 
  • PB11041PB11041 EarthPosts: 2,147
    This Guy Protests Annoying Everyday Things With Hilarious Signs 21 Pics
    His eminence has yet to show. 
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  • FR181798FR181798 Posts: 1,375
    edited February 15
    I cant stop laughing! Is this the "comedy" thread? Ya'll are killing me!
    This very moment, the AG, IG, FBI, CIA, SS, DOT, ICE, TSA and AARP task forces are swarming 10C HQ to make sure this MASSIVE injustice is resolved!! Reading the last few pages of this thread is way more entertaining than two 10C singles could ever be... 
    Best $40 I've spent all year!! Please continue...   
    These singles are not a MASSIVE injustice but does amount to a concerning amount of money.

    On a slightly different note I read recently that a lot of lacquers for records out this year have already been cut. The shortage of lacquers in a few months time could mean that if these singles are not cut then it could be a long time before we ever see them.
  • PB11041 said:
    This Guy Protests Annoying Everyday Things With Hilarious Signs 21 Pics

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,397
    edited February 17
    I think the argument that they have made other records in the time is a bit disingenuous.

    Last year alone, 2 of the records had art already made and audio already mixed. The vault follows an aesthetic. It’s pretty much assemble by numbers of logo, pics from show, set list (if available). These couldn’t be more than just an OK from the band or minimally management. God knows they picked 10 vaults 6 years ago and are going through the lot. There was basically nothing for the band to approve.

    It seems to me the band really wants to do something for these. They do tend to be unique releases and get some thought and effort put into them. Otherwise, I’m sure the club could assemble something and put them out and just get an ok. 

    But the argument that they don’t care About the delay or the 7”s because they made other vinyl releases in the time isn’t as good of a support as you would think.
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
  • my_wavemy_wave clearwater, FLPosts: 264
    maybe it's taking so long because to make up for the delay and to make it special for us the band is signing them all and it's just taking them 2-3 years to do it lol
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  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 3,294
    For the record, I never accused anyone from TC management of setting the fire.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 20,825
    I cant stop laughing! Is this the "comedy" thread? Ya'll are killing me!
    This very moment, the AG, IG, FBI, CIA, SS, DOT, ICE, TSA and AARP task forces are swarming 10C HQ to make sure this MASSIVE injustice is resolved!! Reading the last few pages of this thread is way more entertaining than two 10C singles could ever be... 
    Best $40 I've spent all year!! Please continue...   
    if it's the comedy thread, you belong somewhere else, clearly. 
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 12,384
    edited February 18
    They should send out a Tenclub 7'' of DOTC b/w Superblood Wolfmoon. Just as a troll job. 
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 14,087
    Release the mp3 hounds!
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • erocshiftyerocshifty Posts: 1,170
    This situation is quite puzzling to be honest. I'm only owed 1 digital single and I've given up on it to be frank. I stepped away from 10 Club and the PJ world for a bit. I wasn't particularly thrilled about some of the changes (IE -the focus on Merch, Merch, Merch! over music) the poor communication & emails asking me how far I'm willing to travel, lol. The way the Raleigh cancellation was handled really soured my outlook on the band for a bit. 

    But, time heals and I'll always love the band and its' music. Over the past few years I've done some searching and found a lot of peace. I also turned my main musical focus to another band I've always loved but had lost touch with. Overall I'm actually grateful about some of the sour experiences and how everything has turned out. 

    I hope they do something special to make this right, but it just is what it is and I don't have a lot of faith in the 10 Club. I like the t-shirt this year and wanted a download of a 2018 show. But, to be completely transparent, if there wasn't any new music coming out I wouldn't have even paid for the "privilege" to speak on this message board. 
    "It's best to live in grace before you're forced to." EV- 10/09/2014 
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,573
    Odd that people think a corporation frauding its customers out of millions of dollars of promised goods is silly, laughable, ridiculous, or any of the other adjectives thrown out in this thread.  Guessing you're all HUGE fans of Enron?!?!
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,667
    They should just go to 3rd Man Records play Sweet Lew and Bugs and cut it direct to vinyl. Over and done with, 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,136
    edited February 18
    I think the argument that they have made other records in the time is a bit disingenuous.

    Last year alone, 2 of the records had art already made and audio already mixed. The vault follows an aesthetic. It’s pretty much assemble by numbers of logo, pics from show, set list (if available). These couldn’t be more than just an OK from the band or minimally management. God knows they picked 10 vaults 6 years ago and are going through the lot. There was basically nothing for the band to approve.

    It seems to me the band really wants to do something for these. They do tend to be unique releases and get some thought and effort put into them. Otherwise, I’m sure the club could assemble something and put them out and just get an ok. 

    But the argument that they don’t care About the delay or the 7”s because they made other vinyl releases in the time isn’t as good of a support as you would think.
    It isn't disingenuous because the very little communication we've had from 10c blames the delay on the pressing time for vinyl, not art work or the band getting together. That clearly isn't true when they are able to press things we haven't paid for years in advance. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,397
    edited February 19
    It was purposely vague. Vinyl production could mean all of the above. 

    Some dude here assumed it meant the pressing time and people who wanted to believe that ran with it. 
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 14,087
    If there was any delay at all related to the vinyl, then they could have released the mp3's. They haven't. This has nothing to do with vinyl.
    ___________________________________________

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  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,397
    Correct. Its the band.
  • ZodZod Posts: 6,622
    I suppose the issue is that since they aren't pressed yet, even if they got them ready to press, they may not be able to due to that fire that knocked out where they made the vinyl masters :(
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,397
    Eh, lot of variables at play there. 

    Honestly given their stature and the run, I’m sure they could get them cut and pressed somewhere. 
  • Vedd HeddVedd Hedd Posts: 3,508
    This thread still going?

    Oh good.....


    Near to death.
    Here to die.
    Scared alive.
  • Vedd Hedd said:
    This thread still going?

    Oh good.....


    Hopefully it will keep going until we get our missing singles.
  • my_wavemy_wave clearwater, FLPosts: 264
    honestly it's just really fucking sad at this point, especially with the new album being released with a limited edition 7" single on vinyl... obviously there were no issues pressing that and having it ready to ship on the release date with the new album...
    st. pete '94
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    austin '14
    austin '14
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    ed - clearwater '12
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  • Vedd Hedd said:
    This thread still going?

    Oh good.....


    Did you get your singles?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,397
    my_wave said:
    honestly it's just really fucking sad at this point, especially with the new album being released with a limited edition 7" single on vinyl... obviously there were no issues pressing that and having it ready to ship on the release date with the new album...
    Right. Because pressing wasn’t the issue with these being delayed. 
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