so was I. But anytime anyone so much as bumps this thread the children come out with their stupid memes and gifs. and I think if the club really felt threatened by this thread, they'd have shut it down weeks ago. I don't think they require anyone defending them.
I actually do think calling for sanity and perspective is sometimes required on the internet. If this whole thread were just a groupthink train of calls for legal action, with no one saying "whoa, hol'up, you're being crazy", that can compel people to join in and act on said craziness. If just one person reads my posts and thinks, "ok, he's right, this is a little much, these are people who make mistakes just like me, I'll take it down a notch", then it's worthwhile. I actually don't think 10C requires a defense from me, particularly because I'm 100% certain 10C's Terms and Conditions are protection enough and lawsuits would go nowhere, but sharing thoughts shapes the perspectives of undecideds.
Reddit is a great example of how dangerous that shit can be because it's a heavily moderated environment and dissent is often removed or downvoted so it isn't visible. Opposing views help to temper craziness.
These threads have never been a groupthink train of calls for legal action.
so was I. But anytime anyone so much as bumps this thread the children come out with their stupid memes and gifs. and I think if the club really felt threatened by this thread, they'd have shut it down weeks ago. I don't think they require anyone defending them.
I actually do think calling for sanity and perspective is sometimes required on the internet. If this whole thread were just a groupthink train of calls for legal action, with no one saying "whoa, hol'up, you're being crazy", that can compel people to join in and act on said craziness. If just one person reads my posts and thinks, "ok, he's right, this is a little much, these are people who make mistakes just like me, I'll take it down a notch", then it's worthwhile. I actually don't think 10C requires a defense from me, particularly because I'm 100% certain 10C's Terms and Conditions are protection enough and lawsuits would go nowhere, but sharing thoughts shapes the perspectives of undecideds.
Reddit is a great example of how dangerous that shit can be because it's a heavily moderated environment and dissent is often removed or downvoted so it isn't visible. Opposing views help to temper craziness.
These threads have never been a groupthink train of calls for legal action.
Didn't say it was. I was responding to Hugh suggesting a defense wasn't required and using a scenario to illustrate my point.
so was I. But anytime anyone so much as bumps this thread the children come out with their stupid memes and gifs. and I think if the club really felt threatened by this thread, they'd have shut it down weeks ago. I don't think they require anyone defending them.
I actually do think calling for sanity and perspective is sometimes required on the internet. If this whole thread were just a groupthink train of calls for legal action, with no one saying "whoa, hol'up, you're being crazy", that can compel people to join in and act on said craziness. If just one person reads my posts and thinks, "ok, he's right, this is a little much, these are people who make mistakes just like me, I'll take it down a notch", then it's worthwhile. I actually don't think 10C requires a defense from me, particularly because I'm 100% certain 10C's Terms and Conditions are protection enough and lawsuits would go nowhere, but sharing thoughts shapes the perspectives of undecideds.
Reddit is a great example of how dangerous that shit can be because it's a heavily moderated environment and dissent is often removed or downvoted so it isn't visible. Opposing views help to temper craziness.
These threads have never been a groupthink train of calls for legal action.
Didn't say it was. I was responding to Hugh suggesting a defense wasn't required and using a scenario to illustrate my point.
I know, but what I (and possiblyJimmy) is getting to, is that the backlash to this is out of proportion to the initial complaint.
so was I. But anytime anyone so much as bumps this thread the children come out with their stupid memes and gifs. and I think if the club really felt threatened by this thread, they'd have shut it down weeks ago. I don't think they require anyone defending them.
I actually do think calling for sanity and perspective is sometimes required on the internet. If this whole thread were just a groupthink train of calls for legal action, with no one saying "whoa, hol'up, you're being crazy", that can compel people to join in and act on said craziness. If just one person reads my posts and thinks, "ok, he's right, this is a little much, these are people who make mistakes just like me, I'll take it down a notch", then it's worthwhile. I actually don't think 10C requires a defense from me, particularly because I'm 100% certain 10C's Terms and Conditions are protection enough and lawsuits would go nowhere, but sharing thoughts shapes the perspectives of undecideds.
Reddit is a great example of how dangerous that shit can be because it's a heavily moderated environment and dissent is often removed or downvoted so it isn't visible. Opposing views help to temper craziness.
These threads have never been a groupthink train of calls for legal action.
Didn't say it was. I was responding to Hugh suggesting a defense wasn't required and using a scenario to illustrate my point.
I know, but what I (and possiblyJimmy) is getting to, is that the backlash to this is out of proportion to the initial complaint.
I can't speak for everyone else and my comments are usually funnier than theirs (this recent run excepted).
so was I. But anytime anyone so much as bumps this thread the children come out with their stupid memes and gifs. and I think if the club really felt threatened by this thread, they'd have shut it down weeks ago. I don't think they require anyone defending them.
I actually do think calling for sanity and perspective is sometimes required on the internet. If this whole thread were just a groupthink train of calls for legal action, with no one saying "whoa, hol'up, you're being crazy", that can compel people to join in and act on said craziness. If just one person reads my posts and thinks, "ok, he's right, this is a little much, these are people who make mistakes just like me, I'll take it down a notch", then it's worthwhile. I actually don't think 10C requires a defense from me, particularly because I'm 100% certain 10C's Terms and Conditions are protection enough and lawsuits would go nowhere, but sharing thoughts shapes the perspectives of undecideds.
Reddit is a great example of how dangerous that shit can be because it's a heavily moderated environment and dissent is often removed or downvoted so it isn't visible. Opposing views help to temper craziness.
These threads have never been a groupthink train of calls for legal action.
Didn't say it was. I was responding to Hugh suggesting a defense wasn't required and using a scenario to illustrate my point.
Half kidding half serious but is there a shot at a class action suit? It may have been said in this thread already or another thread but I didn’t read it all through. WTF 10C!!!!!
To answer the question above, if we don't get these by EOY, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started a class action suit. Not me, as that sounds like WAY too much work, but I'm sure there are many that would.
And to touch on the personal feel of said singles: Them recently releasing them all for profit, the exact opposite of their original intention, further solidifies that they are a business first and band second.
Yes, we are owed singles that we have paid for. No, I don’t believe PJ or 10C have done anything illegal.
Breach of contract is illegal. We're well past the point where non-performance gives rise to a valid legal claim for breach of contract.
You don't have to care that they're in breach of contract, and you can feel disdain towards those who do care, but it's a breach of contract regardless.
We don’t NEED them, we can still buy tickets from TM.
to me, this is the band letting us down more than anything. But going off what Mike said in the Gigaton press release, it seems the past few years have not been good for them. So this kinda makes sense.
Where can I read this?
Also, I didn't read this whole thread and I'm not an analog member so I have no reason too be concerned with this issue, but while I see the AG was already contacted. I believe complaints can also be made to the BBB if anyone felt so inclined
Do we have any lawyers in the club? Class action lawsuit? Those seem to be popular these days.
Gotta watch that one. Someone else mentioned that early on in the thread and got vilified for it, despite being totally just in that suggestion. I'd sign it. We're talking millions of dollars and promised goods not delivered. Sounds like a class action suit waiting to happen!
Half kidding half serious but is there a shot at a class action suit? It may have been said in this thread already or another thread but I didn’t read it all through. WTF 10C!!!!!
To answer the question above, if we don't get these by EOY, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started a class action suit. Not me, as that sounds like WAY too much work, but I'm sure there are many that would.
And to touch on the personal feel of said singles: Them recently releasing them all for profit, the exact opposite of their original intention, further solidifies that they are a business first and band second.
Yes, we are owed singles that we have paid for. No, I don’t believe PJ or 10C have done anything illegal.
Breach of contract is illegal. We're well past the point where non-performance gives rise to a valid legal claim for breach of contract.
You don't have to care that they're in breach of contract, and you can feel disdain towards those who do care, but it's a breach of contract regardless.
We don’t NEED them, we can still buy tickets from TM.
to me, this is the band letting us down more than anything. But going off what Mike said in the Gigaton press release, it seems the past few years have not been good for them. So this kinda makes sense.
Where can I read this?
Also, I didn't read this whole thread and I'm not an analog member so I have no reason too be concerned with this issue, but while I see the AG was already contacted. I believe complaints can also be made to the BBB if anyone felt so inclined
Half kidding half serious but is there a shot at a class action suit? It may have been said in this thread already or another thread but I didn’t read it all through. WTF 10C!!!!!
To answer the question above, if we don't get these by EOY, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started a class action suit. Not me, as that sounds like WAY too much work, but I'm sure there are many that would.
And to touch on the personal feel of said singles: Them recently releasing them all for profit, the exact opposite of their original intention, further solidifies that they are a business first and band second.
Yes, we are owed singles that we have paid for. No, I don’t believe PJ or 10C have done anything illegal.
Breach of contract is illegal. We're well past the point where non-performance gives rise to a valid legal claim for breach of contract.
You don't have to care that they're in breach of contract, and you can feel disdain towards those who do care, but it's a breach of contract regardless.
We don’t NEED them, we can still buy tickets from TM.
to me, this is the band letting us down more than anything. But going off what Mike said in the Gigaton press release, it seems the past few years have not been good for them. So this kinda makes sense.
Where can I read this?
Also, I didn't read this whole thread and I'm not an analog member so I have no reason too be concerned with this issue, but while I see the AG was already contacted. I believe complaints can also be made to the BBB if anyone felt so inclined
I'm not about to dig back through pages of old posts and threads, but I am pretty certain the passionate defenses of 10c on this issue started long before anyone threatened legal action.
Half kidding half serious but is there a shot at a class action suit? It may have been said in this thread already or another thread but I didn’t read it all through. WTF 10C!!!!!
To answer the question above, if we don't get these by EOY, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started a class action suit. Not me, as that sounds like WAY too much work, but I'm sure there are many that would.
And to touch on the personal feel of said singles: Them recently releasing them all for profit, the exact opposite of their original intention, further solidifies that they are a business first and band second.
Yes, we are owed singles that we have paid for. No, I don’t believe PJ or 10C have done anything illegal.
Breach of contract is illegal. We're well past the point where non-performance gives rise to a valid legal claim for breach of contract.
You don't have to care that they're in breach of contract, and you can feel disdain towards those who do care, but it's a breach of contract regardless.
We don’t NEED them, we can still buy tickets from TM.
to me, this is the band letting us down more than anything. But going off what Mike said in the Gigaton press release, it seems the past few years have not been good for them. So this kinda makes sense.
Where can I read this?
Also, I didn't read this whole thread and I'm not an analog member so I have no reason too be concerned with this issue, but while I see the AG was already contacted. I believe complaints can also be made to the BBB if anyone felt so inclined
I'm not about to dig back through pages of old posts and threads, but I am pretty certain the passionate defenses of 10c on this issue started long before anyone threatened legal action.
I would not be certain that your selective memory improves as the posts get older
I'm not about to dig back through pages of old posts and threads, but I am pretty certain the passionate defenses of 10c on this issue started long before anyone threatened legal action.
Absolutely correct. There have been a number of threads about this topic, and this is the first one I remember there being talk of legal action (which I've never suggested or endorsed - although I understand the sentiment). The defenders of the faith can be found en masse in all of those threads rallying in defense of their holy and sacred fan club.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Half kidding half serious but is there a shot at a class action suit? It may have been said in this thread already or another thread but I didn’t read it all through. WTF 10C!!!!!
To answer the question above, if we don't get these by EOY, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started a class action suit. Not me, as that sounds like WAY too much work, but I'm sure there are many that would.
And to touch on the personal feel of said singles: Them recently releasing them all for profit, the exact opposite of their original intention, further solidifies that they are a business first and band second.
Yes, we are owed singles that we have paid for. No, I don’t believe PJ or 10C have done anything illegal.
Breach of contract is illegal. We're well past the point where non-performance gives rise to a valid legal claim for breach of contract.
You don't have to care that they're in breach of contract, and you can feel disdain towards those who do care, but it's a breach of contract regardless.
We don’t NEED them, we can still buy tickets from TM.
to me, this is the band letting us down more than anything. But going off what Mike said in the Gigaton press release, it seems the past few years have not been good for them. So this kinda makes sense.
Where can I read this?
Also, I didn't read this whole thread and I'm not an analog member so I have no reason too be concerned with this issue, but while I see the AG was already contacted. I believe complaints can also be made to the BBB if anyone felt so inclined
Do we have any lawyers in the club? Class action lawsuit? Those seem to be popular these days.
come on. none of these are seriously considering actually doing it.
I also stated that what they have done is essentially fraud (or breach of contract or whatever the proper legal term is here). that's just stating a fact. which is what many here have done. that's what class action lawsuits are meant for: is it worth it to go to court over $10? no, but bilking $10 out of hundreds of thousands of people is cause for alarm and honestly, big companies are held to account that way.
only one person went to the AG. Pretty sure that's all that is going to happen as well.
edit: this was meant as a response to Tim's post, not sure what happened here.
I think it was more calls for patience at that point. It was when that one dude called the Washington AG is when this thread went off the rails.
He actually called?!
Wow.
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
I'm not about to dig back through pages of old posts and threads, but I am pretty certain the passionate defenses of 10c on this issue started long before anyone threatened legal action.
I would not be certain that your selective memory improves as the posts get older
jimmy is 100% correct. people have been raising concerns about this since 1994. and there have been just as many, if not more, support-the-band-to-the-end folks.
I'm not about to dig back through pages of old posts and threads, but I am pretty certain the passionate defenses of 10c on this issue started long before anyone threatened legal action.
I would not be certain that your selective memory improves as the posts get older
jimmy is 100% correct. people have been raising concerns about this since 1994. and there have been just as many, if not more, support-the-band-to-the-end folks.
Man, I don't think anyone here has said boo about whatever may have been discussed in the 90s!
I'm not about to dig back through pages of old posts and threads, but I am pretty certain the passionate defenses of 10c on this issue started long before anyone threatened legal action.
I would not be certain that your selective memory improves as the posts get older
jimmy is 100% correct. people have been raising concerns about this since 1994. and there have been just as many, if not more, support-the-band-to-the-end folks.
Man, I don't think anyone here has said boo about whatever may have been discussed in the 90s!
huh? let me retry this: jimmy is saying that 10C-defenders predate the AG call by about 2 decades. and he is 100% correct.
To answer the question above, if we don't get these by EOY, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started a class action suit. Not me, as that sounds like WAY too much work, but I'm sure there are many that would.
And to touch on the personal feel of said singles: Them recently releasing them all for profit, the exact opposite of their original intention, further solidifies that they are a business first and band second.
I also remember when people bought their records vs streaming single songs or out right robbing them.
So...yeah, they are trying to making a living off their music, no shit.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. The fan club singles were always for the fan club only, not to be sold, not to hit radio, not to make a profit on, etc. They were strictly for the fan club. This has all changed, and has nothing to do with their commercial releases.
You mentioning people buying their records does not apply since these were never for sale commercially in the first place. But I guess 'no shit' is a good enough response, and all that can be expected from most people here, rather than an insightful discussion.
so we really rolling back to the fact that a fanclub member played Last Kiss either on the radio or for someone with radio ties, it became a hit, the band sold that one side of the single to make a boatload of money for refugees in Kosovo and that is a problem how? Or that they decided at this stage to put the singles on streaming services, is that a foul somehow, how cares, I already have the vinyl and they send a digital download for them all in the last ten years, and people rip them and share them illegally all over the interwebs as is.
They stopped becoming strictly for the club the moment one person pressed upload and ten thousand pressed download.
To answer the question above, if we don't get these by EOY, I wouldn't be surprised if someone started a class action suit. Not me, as that sounds like WAY too much work, but I'm sure there are many that would.
And to touch on the personal feel of said singles: Them recently releasing them all for profit, the exact opposite of their original intention, further solidifies that they are a business first and band second.
I also remember when people bought their records vs streaming single songs or out right robbing them.
So...yeah, they are trying to making a living off their music, no shit.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. The fan club singles were always for the fan club only, not to be sold, not to hit radio, not to make a profit on, etc. They were strictly for the fan club. This has all changed, and has nothing to do with their commercial releases.
You mentioning people buying their records does not apply since these were never for sale commercially in the first place. But I guess 'no shit' is a good enough response, and all that can be expected from most people here, rather than an insightful discussion.
so we really rolling back to the fact that a fanclub member played Last Kiss either on the radio or for someone with radio ties, it became a hit, the band sold that one side of the single to make a boatload of money for refugees in Kosovo and that is a problem how? Or that they decided at this stage to put the singles on streaming services, is that a foul somehow, how cares, I already have the vinyl and they send a digital download for them all in the last ten years, and people rip them and share them illegally all over the interwebs as is.
They stopped becoming strictly for the club the moment one person pressed upload and ten thousand pressed download.
so if i break into an exclusive golf country club, they won't kick me out because now i can claim it's no longer exclusive and i have a right to be there?
I wish, society had a mind, to believe for themselves, not what they are told. Yes, the singles would be out soon, make sure you information is correct. Yes, we allocated as much seating as possible for our members. I believe in myself, and see with my eyes. But we are screwed this time. ( Just like the pending election) (and the singles) (as well as the truth) insert Jack Nicholas you can't handle the truth. ( This forum is fun)
Well i hope every fan who meets the members of the band out on the road during the 2020 tours asks them about these singles. I doubt they know or even think about them
I wish, society had a mind, to believe for themselves, not what they are told. Yes, the singles would be out soon, make sure you information is correct. Yes, we allocated as much seating as possible for our members. I believe in myself, and see with my eyes. But we are screwed this time. ( Just like the pending election) (and the singles) (as well as the truth) insert Jack Nicholas you can't handle the truth. ( This forum is fun)
Puff puff give! Puff puff give! You’re fuckin up the rotation!
Comments
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.headstonesband.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.headstonesband.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.headstonesband.com
only one person went to the AG. Pretty sure that's all that is going to happen as well.
edit: this was meant as a response to Tim's post, not sure what happened here.
www.headstonesband.com
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.headstonesband.com
They stopped becoming strictly for the club the moment one person pressed upload and ten thousand pressed download.
http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652
It's a bummer, but I'll hang out. My big concern this year is getting my child to pass Chemistry and Geometry.
2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
wicked!
www.headstonesband.com
Yes, the singles would be out soon, make sure you information is correct.
Yes, we allocated as much seating as possible for our members.
I believe in myself, and see with my eyes. But we are screwed this time. ( Just like the pending election) (and the singles) (as well as the truth) insert Jack Nicholas you can't handle the truth. ( This forum is fun)