It has nothing to do with producing art. It has nothing to do with the nature of creating vinyl. How many vinyl records have Pearl Jam created in the last 2 years and sold to the Ten Club? That is yet another lame excuse.
What it boils down to is that Pearl Jam does not care.That is so sad.
If Pearl Jam cared, they would be issuing an apology. I found it interesting that Tim put in the line, "I'd like to apologize to those subscribers who have expressed frustration in the delay." This wasn't a public message and had I not shared it, that statement wouldn't have been released.
Tim didn't address how they would be handling the 2 issues of DEEP.
I filed a complaint with the Washington State Attorney General office. They sent my complaint to the Ten Club and the Ten Club manager, Tim Bierman, sent back a reply. Here it is:
Thank you for forwarding along the complaint (#553030) for The Ten Club.
Mr. **** is correct in his complaint. Subscribing members are promised one
(1) vinyl 7" per year. However there is not a "deliver by" date. These
singles are dependent on the ability of the band to deliver music and
art to complete production and distribution to the members. While the
delay on these last two (2) singles has been significant, it doesn't
fall outside of our offering to the subscribers.
We
are in the process of producing these items and they will be delivered
in due time. But because of the nature of creating vinyl records, there
is not an exact date we can provide to the customers.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that these items won't be delivered.
I'd like to apologize to those subscribers who have expressed frustration in the delay.
Thanks, Tim
I like this part the best, "because of the nature of creating vinyl records, there is not an exact date we can provide....."
The saddest thing about this post, aside from the fact that this action was actually taken, is that it had to be taken this far to finally get an official statement that could have been posted on here at anytime which would have resolved and clarified the issue for everyone asking...
And yet it tells us nothing that wasn't already said previously. But I hope everyone is happy now that we have our 10c email confirming that everything is the same as it was in January.
It has nothing to do with producing art. It has nothing to do with the nature of creating vinyl. How many vinyl records have Pearl Jam created in the last 2 years and sold to the Ten Club? That is yet another lame excuse.
What it boils down to is that Pearl Jam does not care.That is so sad.
If Pearl Jam cared, they would be issuing an apology. I found it interesting that Tim put in the line, "I'd like to apologize to those subscribers who have expressed frustration in the delay." This wasn't a public message and had I not shared it, that statement wouldn't have been released.
Tim didn't address how they would be handling the 2 issues of DEEP.
I found that odd as well. Maybe he assumed it would be posted here?
I think the band cares. Tim, on the other hand, has shown in the past his contempt for PJ fans.
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,430
I can’t imagine being voluntarily a part of a fan club that I dislike so much that I need to make a formal complaint with the authorities. Just request a refund and be done with it. Why stay if it makes you that unhappy?
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
yes, I can. this band has a massive following. among that following, you are going to have the rabid fans. this is normal for any band this huge. he is obviously allowed to have his opinion, but to actually come out and say what he has in public has been, well, deplorable.
he's the manager of the band's FAN club. if he doesn't like the FANS, then maybe he should do something else?
again, not the point. he can like whomever he chooses. but to publicly state it, as the manager of the club that houses all fans, it was a shitty thing (and highly unprofessional) to do.
again, not the point. he can like whomever he chooses. but to publicly state it, as the manager of the club that houses all fans, it was a shitty thing (and highly unprofessional) to do.
100% agree.
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,430
I'll admit, I have come to wonder if there are burner accounts among us.
why?
It's just crossed my mind that people from 10c - or associated with 10c - are on here defending them. There seems to be no real defense for the lateness of these singles in particular, yet we see defenses made over and over again. It's just something that crossed my mind. Probably a crazy notion.
again, not the point. he can like whomever he chooses. but to publicly state it, as the manager of the club that houses all fans, it was a shitty thing (and highly unprofessional) to do.
Thats fair and true. Doesn't make him wrong though.
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,430
I wish I was secretly a ten club employee. Then I wouldn’t have sent myself the wolf pig poster in my mystery box.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
You can roll your eyes at it, but its a very diplomatic letter he wrote. At the end of the day, the "nature of creating vinyl records," is purposely vague. He's protecting his 5 employers. Ultimately the delivery of the singles is up to the band and the time it takes to choose tracks, make art and manufacture, to say nothing of distributing.
again, not the point. he can like whomever he chooses. but to publicly state it, as the manager of the club that houses all fans, it was a shitty thing (and highly unprofessional) to do.
Thats fair and true. Doesn't make him wrong though.
At the end of the day, there isn't gonna be consensus agreement on this issue in this forum. You'll have people who are not making an issue of it and think it happens when it happens, its just $25 worth of singles and a magazine and go about their business, and you'll have the people who will get upset about it being $25 for 2 singles and 2 magazine and shout into the void (while going about their business). In the end all of us are powerless. It's up to the 5 dudes in the band. So shake your fist at the void or just sit back and do other shit. It'll happen and none of us have a say in it. The 10c has never not made good. IMO, its just not worth the anguish people are putting into this.
I know they are good for it. I will get it when I get it. I rarely spin my singles, so I'm not dying because I don't have my last 2. Don't get me wrong, I still want them and will be excited when they come. But this isnt WalMart. Tim makes a good point in that email. Art is not always something you can just "produce". (I get it, we were promised, its way late).
Take your time, make it cool, and get it to me when its done.
no, art isn't something you can just produce. the problem is, these guys have a wack of stuff in the vault. demos, unreleased tracks, live tracks that aren't commercially available. they've been half assing the singles for most of the last several years anyway (Jeanne Tripplehorn, I'm looking at YOU), why are they so concerned about "getting it right" this time?
Jeanne Tripplehorn and the band's decision to give her a part on their annual single is the reason I have only had a digital subscription for the past few years.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I can’t imagine being voluntarily a part of a fan club that I dislike so much that I need to make a formal complaint with the authorities. Just request a refund and be done with it. Why stay if it makes you that unhappy?
No need for this "I for one, cannot fathom how someone would yada yada" condescending.
You know the fanclub have us by the balls by having a monopoly on their services, and for our love for the band - that makes it more than a transaction in some theoretical pure market economy.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I know they are good for it. I will get it when I get it. I rarely spin my singles, so I'm not dying because I don't have my last 2. Don't get me wrong, I still want them and will be excited when they come. But this isnt WalMart. Tim makes a good point in that email. Art is not always something you can just "produce". (I get it, we were promised, its way late).
Take your time, make it cool, and get it to me when its done.
no, art isn't something you can just produce. the problem is, these guys have a wack of stuff in the vault. demos, unreleased tracks, live tracks that aren't commercially available. they've been half assing the singles for most of the last several years anyway (Jeanne Tripplehorn, I'm looking at YOU), why are they so concerned about "getting it right" this time?
Jeanne Tripplehorn and the band's decision to give her a part on their annual single is the reason I have only had a digital subscription for the past few years.
I always felt for her in Basic Instinct. Damn dirty Michael Douglas doing her wrong!
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
It has nothing to do with producing art. It has nothing to do with the nature of creating vinyl. How many vinyl records have Pearl Jam created in the last 2 years and sold to the Ten Club? That is yet another lame excuse.
What it boils down to is that Pearl Jam does not care.That is so sad.
If Pearl Jam cared, they would be issuing an apology. I found it interesting that Tim put in the line, "I'd like to apologize to those subscribers who have expressed frustration in the delay." This wasn't a public message and had I not shared it, that statement wouldn't have been released.
Tim didn't address how they would be handling the 2 issues of DEEP.
Shouldn't he apologize for them actually fucking up the delay. And not to "those" people who happen to feel frustration over this magic thing that is vinyl creation that hopefully happens every 27 years in a town called Derry if you put 7 flowers under your pillow and dream of the man you wish to marry?
Sounds close to "sorry you feel that way" - but maybe it's me being not being a native english speaker that makes it sound so.
1. “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
“Even though this phrase begins with the words, ‘I’m sorry,’ it is not a real apology. It does not take ownership of any wrongdoing. It does not communicate remorse for your actions, and it does not express any empathy towards the other person’s feelings. Instead, it may imply that you think the other person is being irrational or overly sensitive. Try to understand and take responsibility for how your actions or words hurt the other person, saying something like, ‘I’m sorry that I canceled our plans at the last minute. It was inconsiderate of your time and I understand why you are angry at me.’” ―Gina Delucca, clinical psychologist at Wellspace SF
At the end of the day, there isn't gonna be consensus agreement on this issue in this forum. You'll have people who are not making an issue of it and think it happens when it happens, its just $25 worth of singles and a magazine and go about their business, and you'll have the people who will get upset about it being $25 for 2 singles and 2 magazine and shout into the void (while going about their business). In the end all of us are powerless. It's up to the 5 dudes in the band. So shake your fist at the void or just sit back and do other shit. It'll happen and none of us have a say in it. The 10c has never not made good. IMO, its just not worth the anguish people are putting into this.
maybe, maybe not. but people certainly have a right to the complaint, regardless of how the complaint is levied. you really can't debate that part.
I know they are good for it. I will get it when I get it. I rarely spin my singles, so I'm not dying because I don't have my last 2. Don't get me wrong, I still want them and will be excited when they come. But this isnt WalMart. Tim makes a good point in that email. Art is not always something you can just "produce". (I get it, we were promised, its way late).
Take your time, make it cool, and get it to me when its done.
no, art isn't something you can just produce. the problem is, these guys have a wack of stuff in the vault. demos, unreleased tracks, live tracks that aren't commercially available. they've been half assing the singles for most of the last several years anyway (Jeanne Tripplehorn, I'm looking at YOU), why are they so concerned about "getting it right" this time?
Jeanne Tripplehorn and the band's decision to give her a part on their annual single is the reason I have only had a digital subscription for the past few years.
I always felt for her in Basic Instinct. Damn dirty Michael Douglas doing her wrong!
The more I think about Tim Bierman's response, the more I question why I am a fan club member. Good point on2legs. The Ten Club announced the pre-sale of the Vault #9 vinyl in August. They say "We hope to begin shipping in Winter 2019". It also says, *Actual Artwork TBA.
Regarding the annual singles, Tim Bierman's response says, "We
are in the process of producing these items and they will be delivered
in due time". He also says, "But because of the nature of creating vinyl records, there
is not an exact date we can provide to the customers".
What is the difference between these 2 items?I know the Ten Club isn't giving an exact date for Vault #9 but how can they give some time frame for an item that hasn't been purchased yet but not for multiple items that have been paid for years ago? Both are vinyl records.
I find it comical that Pearl Jam were the Record Store Day Ambassadors of 2019.
The more I think about Tim Bierman's response, the more I question why I am a fan club member. Good point on2legs. The Ten Club announced the pre-sale of the Vault #9 vinyl in August. They say "We hope to begin shipping in Winter 2019". It also says, *Actual Artwork TBA.
Regarding the annual singles, Tim Bierman's response says, "We
are in the process of producing these items and they will be delivered
in due time". He also says, "But because of the nature of creating vinyl records, there
is not an exact date we can provide to the customers".
What is the difference between these 2 items?I know the Ten Club isn't giving an exact date for Vault #9 but how can they give some time frame for an item that hasn't been purchased yet but not for multiple items that have been paid for years ago? Both are vinyl records.
I find it comical that Pearl Jam were the Record Store Day Ambassadors of 2019.
Comments
Tim didn't address how they would be handling the 2 issues of DEEP.
The sole saddest part is the complaint.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I think the band cares. Tim, on the other hand, has shown in the past his contempt for PJ fans.
www.headstonesband.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
he's the manager of the band's FAN club. if he doesn't like the FANS, then maybe he should do something else?
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.headstonesband.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.headstonesband.com
You know the fanclub have us by the balls by having a monopoly on their services, and for our love for the band - that makes it more than a transaction in some theoretical pure market economy.
Sounds close to "sorry you feel that way" - but maybe it's me being not being a native english speaker that makes it sound so.
1. “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
“Even though this phrase begins with the words, ‘I’m sorry,’ it is not a real apology. It does not take ownership of any wrongdoing. It does not communicate remorse for your actions, and it does not express any empathy towards the other person’s feelings. Instead, it may imply that you think the other person is being irrational or overly sensitive. Try to understand and take responsibility for how your actions or words hurt the other person, saying something like, ‘I’m sorry that I canceled our plans at the last minute. It was inconsiderate of your time and I understand why you are angry at me.’” ― Gina Delucca, clinical psychologist at Wellspace SF
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/im-sorry-you-feel-that-way-apology_n_5acd47e5e4b06a6aac8cce67
www.headstonesband.com