Where would you rather live the US or Sweden

Meltdown99

Canada

josevolution said:

Meltdown99 said:

It ain’t real with out picture proof but you sold me anyway ..

Woman have had the right to go topless in Ontario for years.  Sorry to disappoint, the only time I've seen a female go topless was a very attractive lady at sarstock in Toronto when the Stones took the stage...what a day/night of great music.

JPPJ84

Sweden

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don’t think a small business could afford giving each of their employees a five week vacation.  I haven’t heard any of the dem candidates make this issue a big deal so I m not really sure why you are making it one. 
By the way do you work at McDonald’s?  You keep bringing them up.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

Can you guys just let it rest and we can go back to talking about food?! So much more fun! Just saying...

mcgruff10

U.S.A.

JPPJ84 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don’t think a small business could afford giving each of their employees a five week vacation.  I haven’t heard any of the dem candidates make this issue a big deal so I m not really sure why you are making it one. 
By the way do you work at McDonald’s?  You keep bringing them up.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

Can you guys just let it rest and we can go back to talking about food?! So much more fun! Just saying...

Agreed. My neighbor who Is from Maryland brought over three dozen blue claws the other day: delicious!! No butter required.  

Renfield

U.S.A.

JPPJ84 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don’t think a small business could afford giving each of their employees a five week vacation.  I haven’t heard any of the dem candidates make this issue a big deal so I m not really sure why you are making it one. 
By the way do you work at McDonald’s?  You keep bringing them up.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

Can you guys just let it rest and we can go back to talking about food?! So much more fun! Just saying...

🙏🙏🙏

PJPOWER

U.S.A.

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

No meat is healthier than meat. That’s why I like no meat. 

Not 100% true, but I am not here to change your mind.

If one stops eating a relatively healthy diet that includes meat and goes on the all-Hostess diet, then you would be correct, but I was referring to a more reasonable option. 

Still not 100% true.

PJPOWER

U.S.A.

bbiggs said:

PJPOWER said:

Renfield said:

PJPOWER said:

Renfield said:

Believe it or not, I have tried an “Impossible Burger” and it wasn’t terrible,  but I would choose a blue cheese venison burger over one of those any day of the week.  
On another thought, if I ever go to Sweden, I will be eating as many moose burgers as humanly possible.  I’ve heard Swedish moose are way better tasting than American moose, lol

Only had an Impossible Burger once, I thought it was great. 

I do not care for red meat/beef, nor any gamey meat. But I would take a taste of a Moose burger just to know what it tastes like-doubtful I would fall in love. 

Right on, bison burgers are probably my favorite, but I don’t get those often

Bison is outstanding and a relatively lean meat.  We have a place by me that has amazing bison burgers. 

It is delicious and healthy, packed full of great nutrients.

PJPOWER

U.S.A.

JPPJ84 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don’t think a small business could afford giving each of their employees a five week vacation.  I haven’t heard any of the dem candidates make this issue a big deal so I m not really sure why you are making it one. 
By the way do you work at McDonald’s?  You keep bringing them up.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

Can you guys just let it rest and we can go back to talking about food?! So much more fun! Just saying...

Amen!  I left for a couple hours and this place went from mouth watering to cranky again!

Spiritual_Chaos

Canada

mcgruff10 said:

JPPJ84 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don’t think a small business could afford giving each of their employees a five week vacation.  I haven’t heard any of the dem candidates make this issue a big deal so I m not really sure why you are making it one. 
By the way do you work at McDonald’s?  You keep bringing them up.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

Can you guys just let it rest and we can go back to talking about food?! So much more fun! Just saying...

Agreed. My neighbor who Is from Maryland brought over three dozen blue claws the other day: delicious!! No butter required.  

So you do not have an answer when getting push back on your assumptions? 

What was that you said about thinking just now... hmm...

josevolution

We are a dysfunctional group no doubt 😄

mrussel1

U.S.A.

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

benjs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

josevolution said:

You can’t go to Germany and be German, you can’t go to Spain and be a Spaniard but but you can come to America and be an American ! I know Obama said it I’m not sure who came up with but it’s spot on ...

And despite this, some on this thread choose to shit all over America. Go figure. 

Well ya know, it s America. Since we don’t lead in every single category listed we are the worst.  

"Don't lead in every single category". This makes it sound like you do lead or are up in the top in most categories... don't be sneaky.

No one has said you are the worst. But you are pretty far from the best. With all these unique fundamental shit-things that most other countries would never fathom having be a part of society.  

So it's not about "not leading in everyyyyyyy category". It's about being surprisingly crazy bad at things.

But a person who believes that working people shouldn't have any legal right to vacation and that McDonalds in no way should pay living wages to their employees might have problems being able to grasp that.

Two things by the way that helps you be pretty far from the best.

The problem with the 'living wages' argument is the bubble-up (and even trickle-down) effect it has on the rest of similarly-paid jobs. If a massive employer of workers at a certain pay rate gives those individuals raises:

1) Workers not at McDonalds but being paid similarly (slightly less, the same, or slightly more) will expect to be paid more than working at McDonalds (otherwise they'd go flip burgers), which puts strain on small/medium businesses to pay competitively, which means they can hire fewer, which means skilled workers end up doing more work per worker so that their peers can go work for McDonalds for more money (an extreme but statistically probable scenario). This is just basic economics.
2) I believe in legal right to vacation for everyone because it's not healthy for anyone to work every week of their year.

SC, I suspect we want the same things, but I think you need to consider the impact on the system more carefully. Because a lifestyle can work in Sweden doesn't yet prove it can work in the States - there are different risks which would require mitigation and cautious planning.

1. So. Start taking steps towards it and support it instead of going  with a "NO WAY!" opinion? Nothing changes over night. But if other countries can pay shitty (I would know, I have family members working in the restaurant field) but livable wages and other fields are not starting an armed revolution over it - so can the US. Having a skewed economy while other countries can survive without having it, would be a reason to not have a skewed economy. Not to keep the skewed economy.

"We can't free and pay our slaves, because then the fisherman will want to be paid more" is not a reason to not pay the slaves. 

And believe in me more, I do know there is not a "turn a switch" solution.. But there is a difference between "we need to take steps because we do things absurdly over here" and "NO WAY".

2. Well, that is the reason why countries driven by sound ideals and unions and workers fought for the right to vacation. And why modern countries that value its citizens have it.

From wiki - who's the odd one out? 

In the majority of nations, including all industrialised nations except the United States, advances in employee relations have seen the introduction of statutory agreements for minimum employee leave from work—that is the amount of entitlement to paid vacation and public holidays.

Now who's often the odd one out when it comes to other things that are there to help the citizens -  like maternity/paternal leave, health care etc?

And you have people on here thinking that workers should not have a legal right to vacation. There is NO WAY McDonald employees should be paid living wages. Health care should not be a human right. Ofc the US won't catch up to pretty much all other modern countries when people are being conditioned into having - as objectively as it is possible to be - such shitty opinions. "But look at me by my pool"



In the Berlin centralstation I saw that they has much better public trash bins than Sweden where you can sort your trash - you don't see me saying "NO WAY - we should not sort our trash!" 

Should everyone take a vacation? Sure.  Should the government require all businesses to provide a required  paid vacation to all, no.  I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So @mcgruff10 - are you able to answer the questions above?

Make what work?  I have no clue what you are talking about.  

You wrote:
I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

I answered and asked:
Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So, please answer the questions.

How can one answer that question.  He'd have to view the P&L of every business,  as would you.  Everything is zero sum to you. 
 

Spiritual_Chaos

Canada

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

benjs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

josevolution said:

You can’t go to Germany and be German, you can’t go to Spain and be a Spaniard but but you can come to America and be an American ! I know Obama said it I’m not sure who came up with but it’s spot on ...

And despite this, some on this thread choose to shit all over America. Go figure. 

Well ya know, it s America. Since we don’t lead in every single category listed we are the worst.  

"Don't lead in every single category". This makes it sound like you do lead or are up in the top in most categories... don't be sneaky.

No one has said you are the worst. But you are pretty far from the best. With all these unique fundamental shit-things that most other countries would never fathom having be a part of society.  

So it's not about "not leading in everyyyyyyy category". It's about being surprisingly crazy bad at things.

But a person who believes that working people shouldn't have any legal right to vacation and that McDonalds in no way should pay living wages to their employees might have problems being able to grasp that.

Two things by the way that helps you be pretty far from the best.

The problem with the 'living wages' argument is the bubble-up (and even trickle-down) effect it has on the rest of similarly-paid jobs. If a massive employer of workers at a certain pay rate gives those individuals raises:

1) Workers not at McDonalds but being paid similarly (slightly less, the same, or slightly more) will expect to be paid more than working at McDonalds (otherwise they'd go flip burgers), which puts strain on small/medium businesses to pay competitively, which means they can hire fewer, which means skilled workers end up doing more work per worker so that their peers can go work for McDonalds for more money (an extreme but statistically probable scenario). This is just basic economics.
2) I believe in legal right to vacation for everyone because it's not healthy for anyone to work every week of their year.

SC, I suspect we want the same things, but I think you need to consider the impact on the system more carefully. Because a lifestyle can work in Sweden doesn't yet prove it can work in the States - there are different risks which would require mitigation and cautious planning.

1. So. Start taking steps towards it and support it instead of going  with a "NO WAY!" opinion? Nothing changes over night. But if other countries can pay shitty (I would know, I have family members working in the restaurant field) but livable wages and other fields are not starting an armed revolution over it - so can the US. Having a skewed economy while other countries can survive without having it, would be a reason to not have a skewed economy. Not to keep the skewed economy.

"We can't free and pay our slaves, because then the fisherman will want to be paid more" is not a reason to not pay the slaves. 

And believe in me more, I do know there is not a "turn a switch" solution.. But there is a difference between "we need to take steps because we do things absurdly over here" and "NO WAY".

2. Well, that is the reason why countries driven by sound ideals and unions and workers fought for the right to vacation. And why modern countries that value its citizens have it.

From wiki - who's the odd one out? 

In the majority of nations, including all industrialised nations except the United States, advances in employee relations have seen the introduction of statutory agreements for minimum employee leave from work—that is the amount of entitlement to paid vacation and public holidays.

Now who's often the odd one out when it comes to other things that are there to help the citizens -  like maternity/paternal leave, health care etc?

And you have people on here thinking that workers should not have a legal right to vacation. There is NO WAY McDonald employees should be paid living wages. Health care should not be a human right. Ofc the US won't catch up to pretty much all other modern countries when people are being conditioned into having - as objectively as it is possible to be - such shitty opinions. "But look at me by my pool"



In the Berlin centralstation I saw that they has much better public trash bins than Sweden where you can sort your trash - you don't see me saying "NO WAY - we should not sort our trash!" 

Should everyone take a vacation? Sure.  Should the government require all businesses to provide a required  paid vacation to all, no.  I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So @mcgruff10 - are you able to answer the questions above?

Make what work?  I have no clue what you are talking about.  

You wrote:
I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

I answered and asked:
Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So, please answer the questions.

How can one answer that question.  He'd have to view the P&L of every business,  as would you.  Everything is zero sum to you. 
 

Yeah right

mrussel1

U.S.A.

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

benjs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

josevolution said:

You can’t go to Germany and be German, you can’t go to Spain and be a Spaniard but but you can come to America and be an American ! I know Obama said it I’m not sure who came up with but it’s spot on ...

And despite this, some on this thread choose to shit all over America. Go figure. 

Well ya know, it s America. Since we don’t lead in every single category listed we are the worst.  

"Don't lead in every single category". This makes it sound like you do lead or are up in the top in most categories... don't be sneaky.

No one has said you are the worst. But you are pretty far from the best. With all these unique fundamental shit-things that most other countries would never fathom having be a part of society.  

So it's not about "not leading in everyyyyyyy category". It's about being surprisingly crazy bad at things.

But a person who believes that working people shouldn't have any legal right to vacation and that McDonalds in no way should pay living wages to their employees might have problems being able to grasp that.

Two things by the way that helps you be pretty far from the best.

The problem with the 'living wages' argument is the bubble-up (and even trickle-down) effect it has on the rest of similarly-paid jobs. If a massive employer of workers at a certain pay rate gives those individuals raises:

1) Workers not at McDonalds but being paid similarly (slightly less, the same, or slightly more) will expect to be paid more than working at McDonalds (otherwise they'd go flip burgers), which puts strain on small/medium businesses to pay competitively, which means they can hire fewer, which means skilled workers end up doing more work per worker so that their peers can go work for McDonalds for more money (an extreme but statistically probable scenario). This is just basic economics.
2) I believe in legal right to vacation for everyone because it's not healthy for anyone to work every week of their year.

SC, I suspect we want the same things, but I think you need to consider the impact on the system more carefully. Because a lifestyle can work in Sweden doesn't yet prove it can work in the States - there are different risks which would require mitigation and cautious planning.

1. So. Start taking steps towards it and support it instead of going  with a "NO WAY!" opinion? Nothing changes over night. But if other countries can pay shitty (I would know, I have family members working in the restaurant field) but livable wages and other fields are not starting an armed revolution over it - so can the US. Having a skewed economy while other countries can survive without having it, would be a reason to not have a skewed economy. Not to keep the skewed economy.

"We can't free and pay our slaves, because then the fisherman will want to be paid more" is not a reason to not pay the slaves. 

And believe in me more, I do know there is not a "turn a switch" solution.. But there is a difference between "we need to take steps because we do things absurdly over here" and "NO WAY".

2. Well, that is the reason why countries driven by sound ideals and unions and workers fought for the right to vacation. And why modern countries that value its citizens have it.

From wiki - who's the odd one out? 

In the majority of nations, including all industrialised nations except the United States, advances in employee relations have seen the introduction of statutory agreements for minimum employee leave from work—that is the amount of entitlement to paid vacation and public holidays.

Now who's often the odd one out when it comes to other things that are there to help the citizens -  like maternity/paternal leave, health care etc?

And you have people on here thinking that workers should not have a legal right to vacation. There is NO WAY McDonald employees should be paid living wages. Health care should not be a human right. Ofc the US won't catch up to pretty much all other modern countries when people are being conditioned into having - as objectively as it is possible to be - such shitty opinions. "But look at me by my pool"



In the Berlin centralstation I saw that they has much better public trash bins than Sweden where you can sort your trash - you don't see me saying "NO WAY - we should not sort our trash!" 

Should everyone take a vacation? Sure.  Should the government require all businesses to provide a required  paid vacation to all, no.  I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So @mcgruff10 - are you able to answer the questions above?

Make what work?  I have no clue what you are talking about.  

You wrote:
I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

I answered and asked:
Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So, please answer the questions.

How can one answer that question.  He'd have to view the P&L of every business,  as would you.  Everything is zero sum to you. 
 

Yeah right

You ask why a small business can't afford vacation.  How can he answer that without knowing the p&l?  
And how do you know there weren't Swedish businesses that went down or didn't start because of that law,  in part? Your unemployment rate is double the US. Maybe it would be lower if the business environment didn't have onerous requirements? What good is 2 weeks if you're unemployed?

mcgruff10

U.S.A.

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

benjs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

josevolution said:

You can’t go to Germany and be German, you can’t go to Spain and be a Spaniard but but you can come to America and be an American ! I know Obama said it I’m not sure who came up with but it’s spot on ...

And despite this, some on this thread choose to shit all over America. Go figure. 

Well ya know, it s America. Since we don’t lead in every single category listed we are the worst.  

"Don't lead in every single category". This makes it sound like you do lead or are up in the top in most categories... don't be sneaky.

No one has said you are the worst. But you are pretty far from the best. With all these unique fundamental shit-things that most other countries would never fathom having be a part of society.  

So it's not about "not leading in everyyyyyyy category". It's about being surprisingly crazy bad at things.

But a person who believes that working people shouldn't have any legal right to vacation and that McDonalds in no way should pay living wages to their employees might have problems being able to grasp that.

Two things by the way that helps you be pretty far from the best.

The problem with the 'living wages' argument is the bubble-up (and even trickle-down) effect it has on the rest of similarly-paid jobs. If a massive employer of workers at a certain pay rate gives those individuals raises:

1) Workers not at McDonalds but being paid similarly (slightly less, the same, or slightly more) will expect to be paid more than working at McDonalds (otherwise they'd go flip burgers), which puts strain on small/medium businesses to pay competitively, which means they can hire fewer, which means skilled workers end up doing more work per worker so that their peers can go work for McDonalds for more money (an extreme but statistically probable scenario). This is just basic economics.
2) I believe in legal right to vacation for everyone because it's not healthy for anyone to work every week of their year.

SC, I suspect we want the same things, but I think you need to consider the impact on the system more carefully. Because a lifestyle can work in Sweden doesn't yet prove it can work in the States - there are different risks which would require mitigation and cautious planning.

1. So. Start taking steps towards it and support it instead of going  with a "NO WAY!" opinion? Nothing changes over night. But if other countries can pay shitty (I would know, I have family members working in the restaurant field) but livable wages and other fields are not starting an armed revolution over it - so can the US. Having a skewed economy while other countries can survive without having it, would be a reason to not have a skewed economy. Not to keep the skewed economy.

"We can't free and pay our slaves, because then the fisherman will want to be paid more" is not a reason to not pay the slaves. 

And believe in me more, I do know there is not a "turn a switch" solution.. But there is a difference between "we need to take steps because we do things absurdly over here" and "NO WAY".

2. Well, that is the reason why countries driven by sound ideals and unions and workers fought for the right to vacation. And why modern countries that value its citizens have it.

From wiki - who's the odd one out? 

In the majority of nations, including all industrialised nations except the United States, advances in employee relations have seen the introduction of statutory agreements for minimum employee leave from work—that is the amount of entitlement to paid vacation and public holidays.

Now who's often the odd one out when it comes to other things that are there to help the citizens -  like maternity/paternal leave, health care etc?

And you have people on here thinking that workers should not have a legal right to vacation. There is NO WAY McDonald employees should be paid living wages. Health care should not be a human right. Ofc the US won't catch up to pretty much all other modern countries when people are being conditioned into having - as objectively as it is possible to be - such shitty opinions. "But look at me by my pool"



In the Berlin centralstation I saw that they has much better public trash bins than Sweden where you can sort your trash - you don't see me saying "NO WAY - we should not sort our trash!" 

Should everyone take a vacation? Sure.  Should the government require all businesses to provide a required  paid vacation to all, no.  I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So @mcgruff10 - are you able to answer the questions above?

Make what work?  I have no clue what you are talking about.  

You wrote:
I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

I answered and asked:
Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So, please answer the questions.

How can one answer that question.  He'd have to view the P&L of every business,  as would you.  Everything is zero sum to you. 
 

Bingo. These discussions give me flashbacks to my ex wife. Ugh

Meltdown99

Canada

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

benjs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

josevolution said:

You can’t go to Germany and be German, you can’t go to Spain and be a Spaniard but but you can come to America and be an American ! I know Obama said it I’m not sure who came up with but it’s spot on ...

And despite this, some on this thread choose to shit all over America. Go figure. 

Well ya know, it s America. Since we don’t lead in every single category listed we are the worst.  

"Don't lead in every single category". This makes it sound like you do lead or are up in the top in most categories... don't be sneaky.

No one has said you are the worst. But you are pretty far from the best. With all these unique fundamental shit-things that most other countries would never fathom having be a part of society.  

So it's not about "not leading in everyyyyyyy category". It's about being surprisingly crazy bad at things.

But a person who believes that working people shouldn't have any legal right to vacation and that McDonalds in no way should pay living wages to their employees might have problems being able to grasp that.

Two things by the way that helps you be pretty far from the best.

The problem with the 'living wages' argument is the bubble-up (and even trickle-down) effect it has on the rest of similarly-paid jobs. If a massive employer of workers at a certain pay rate gives those individuals raises:

1) Workers not at McDonalds but being paid similarly (slightly less, the same, or slightly more) will expect to be paid more than working at McDonalds (otherwise they'd go flip burgers), which puts strain on small/medium businesses to pay competitively, which means they can hire fewer, which means skilled workers end up doing more work per worker so that their peers can go work for McDonalds for more money (an extreme but statistically probable scenario). This is just basic economics.
2) I believe in legal right to vacation for everyone because it's not healthy for anyone to work every week of their year.

SC, I suspect we want the same things, but I think you need to consider the impact on the system more carefully. Because a lifestyle can work in Sweden doesn't yet prove it can work in the States - there are different risks which would require mitigation and cautious planning.

1. So. Start taking steps towards it and support it instead of going  with a "NO WAY!" opinion? Nothing changes over night. But if other countries can pay shitty (I would know, I have family members working in the restaurant field) but livable wages and other fields are not starting an armed revolution over it - so can the US. Having a skewed economy while other countries can survive without having it, would be a reason to not have a skewed economy. Not to keep the skewed economy.

"We can't free and pay our slaves, because then the fisherman will want to be paid more" is not a reason to not pay the slaves. 

And believe in me more, I do know there is not a "turn a switch" solution.. But there is a difference between "we need to take steps because we do things absurdly over here" and "NO WAY".

2. Well, that is the reason why countries driven by sound ideals and unions and workers fought for the right to vacation. And why modern countries that value its citizens have it.

From wiki - who's the odd one out? 

In the majority of nations, including all industrialised nations except the United States, advances in employee relations have seen the introduction of statutory agreements for minimum employee leave from work—that is the amount of entitlement to paid vacation and public holidays.

Now who's often the odd one out when it comes to other things that are there to help the citizens -  like maternity/paternal leave, health care etc?

And you have people on here thinking that workers should not have a legal right to vacation. There is NO WAY McDonald employees should be paid living wages. Health care should not be a human right. Ofc the US won't catch up to pretty much all other modern countries when people are being conditioned into having - as objectively as it is possible to be - such shitty opinions. "But look at me by my pool"



In the Berlin centralstation I saw that they has much better public trash bins than Sweden where you can sort your trash - you don't see me saying "NO WAY - we should not sort our trash!" 

Should everyone take a vacation? Sure.  Should the government require all businesses to provide a required  paid vacation to all, no.  I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So @mcgruff10 - are you able to answer the questions above?

Make what work?  I have no clue what you are talking about.  

You wrote:
I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

I answered and asked:
Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So, please answer the questions.

How can one answer that question.  He'd have to view the P&L of every business,  as would you.  Everything is zero sum to you. 
 

Yeah right

You ask why a small business can't afford vacation.  How can he answer that without knowing the p&l?  
And how do you know there weren't Swedish businesses that went down or didn't start because of that law,  in part? Your unemployment rate is double the US. Maybe it would be lower if the business environment didn't have onerous requirements? What good is 2 weeks if you're unemployed?

LOL.  You are getting your vacation at that point.  The States can still legislate 2 weeks, does not have to be paid.

mrussel1

U.S.A.

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

You ask why a small business can't afford vacation.  How can he answer that without knowing the p&l?  
And how do you know there weren't Swedish businesses that went down or didn't start because of that law,  in part? Your unemployment rate is double the US. Maybe it would be lower if the business environment didn't have onerous requirements? What good is 2 weeks if you're unemployed?

LOL.  You are getting your vacation at that point.  The States can still legislate 2 weeks, does not have to be paid.

They sure could.  Good point.  

vaggar99

U.S.A.

the US is still a great place to live despite it all.  but even that is changing quickly.

cincybearcat

U.S.A.

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

benjs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

josevolution said:

You can’t go to Germany and be German, you can’t go to Spain and be a Spaniard but but you can come to America and be an American ! I know Obama said it I’m not sure who came up with but it’s spot on ...

And despite this, some on this thread choose to shit all over America. Go figure. 

Well ya know, it s America. Since we don’t lead in every single category listed we are the worst.  

"Don't lead in every single category". This makes it sound like you do lead or are up in the top in most categories... don't be sneaky.

No one has said you are the worst. But you are pretty far from the best. With all these unique fundamental shit-things that most other countries would never fathom having be a part of society.  

So it's not about "not leading in everyyyyyyy category". It's about being surprisingly crazy bad at things.

But a person who believes that working people shouldn't have any legal right to vacation and that McDonalds in no way should pay living wages to their employees might have problems being able to grasp that.

Two things by the way that helps you be pretty far from the best.

The problem with the 'living wages' argument is the bubble-up (and even trickle-down) effect it has on the rest of similarly-paid jobs. If a massive employer of workers at a certain pay rate gives those individuals raises:

1) Workers not at McDonalds but being paid similarly (slightly less, the same, or slightly more) will expect to be paid more than working at McDonalds (otherwise they'd go flip burgers), which puts strain on small/medium businesses to pay competitively, which means they can hire fewer, which means skilled workers end up doing more work per worker so that their peers can go work for McDonalds for more money (an extreme but statistically probable scenario). This is just basic economics.
2) I believe in legal right to vacation for everyone because it's not healthy for anyone to work every week of their year.

SC, I suspect we want the same things, but I think you need to consider the impact on the system more carefully. Because a lifestyle can work in Sweden doesn't yet prove it can work in the States - there are different risks which would require mitigation and cautious planning.

1. So. Start taking steps towards it and support it instead of going  with a "NO WAY!" opinion? Nothing changes over night. But if other countries can pay shitty (I would know, I have family members working in the restaurant field) but livable wages and other fields are not starting an armed revolution over it - so can the US. Having a skewed economy while other countries can survive without having it, would be a reason to not have a skewed economy. Not to keep the skewed economy.

"We can't free and pay our slaves, because then the fisherman will want to be paid more" is not a reason to not pay the slaves. 

And believe in me more, I do know there is not a "turn a switch" solution.. But there is a difference between "we need to take steps because we do things absurdly over here" and "NO WAY".

2. Well, that is the reason why countries driven by sound ideals and unions and workers fought for the right to vacation. And why modern countries that value its citizens have it.

From wiki - who's the odd one out? 

In the majority of nations, including all industrialised nations except the United States, advances in employee relations have seen the introduction of statutory agreements for minimum employee leave from work—that is the amount of entitlement to paid vacation and public holidays.

Now who's often the odd one out when it comes to other things that are there to help the citizens -  like maternity/paternal leave, health care etc?

And you have people on here thinking that workers should not have a legal right to vacation. There is NO WAY McDonald employees should be paid living wages. Health care should not be a human right. Ofc the US won't catch up to pretty much all other modern countries when people are being conditioned into having - as objectively as it is possible to be - such shitty opinions. "But look at me by my pool"



In the Berlin centralstation I saw that they has much better public trash bins than Sweden where you can sort your trash - you don't see me saying "NO WAY - we should not sort our trash!" 

Should everyone take a vacation? Sure.  Should the government require all businesses to provide a required  paid vacation to all, no.  I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So @mcgruff10 - are you able to answer the questions above?

Make what work?  I have no clue what you are talking about.  

You wrote:
I think it should be up to the individual business to decide how many weeks they could afford.  Could a small business afford a five week paid vacation to everyone of their employees?  Probably not.  

I answered and asked:
Why can companies in other countries afford it? Every industrial country on planet earth as a matter of fact make it work? What makes the US so uniquely inept so that they could not make it work?

So, please answer the questions.

How can one answer that question.  He'd have to view the P&L of every business,  as would you.  Everything is zero sum to you. 
 

Yeah right

Real question... I read that Sweden’s unemployment was at a decade low level of 7%. What is it so high still and in the recent past?

mcgruff10

U.S.A.

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chao

 

Yeah right

You ask why a small business can't afford vacation.  How can he answer that without knowing the p&l?  
And how do you know there weren't Swedish businesses that went down or didn't start because of that law,  in part? Your unemployment rate is double the US. Maybe it would be lower if the business environment didn't have onerous requirements? What good is 2 weeks if you're unemployed?

LOL.  You are getting your vacation at that point.  The States can still legislate 2 weeks, does not have to be paid.

What's the point of that?  There would be a ton of lost wages that possibly couldn't be made up. 

PJ_Soul

Canada

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chao

 

Yeah right

You ask why a small business can't afford vacation.  How can he answer that without knowing the p&l?  
And how do you know there weren't Swedish businesses that went down or didn't start because of that law,  in part? Your unemployment rate is double the US. Maybe it would be lower if the business environment didn't have onerous requirements? What good is 2 weeks if you're unemployed?

LOL.  You are getting your vacation at that point.  The States can still legislate 2 weeks, does not have to be paid.

What's the point of that?  There would be a ton of lost wages that possibly couldn't be made up. 

Yeah, that's no good and completely defies the point.

mrussel1

U.S.A.

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chao

 

Yeah right

You ask why a small business can't afford vacation.  How can he answer that without knowing the p&l?  
And how do you know there weren't Swedish businesses that went down or didn't start because of that law,  in part? Your unemployment rate is double the US. Maybe it would be lower if the business environment didn't have onerous requirements? What good is 2 weeks if you're unemployed?

LOL.  You are getting your vacation at that point.  The States can still legislate 2 weeks, does not have to be paid.

What's the point of that?  There would be a ton of lost wages that possibly couldn't be made up. 

Yeah, that's no good and completely defies the point.

I don't know if that's true or not.  I worked in the restaurant industry early in my life and there's some value with being able to take off, even unpaid,  without fear if never being on the schedule again.