Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg on cover of TIME

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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 5,283
    edited October 4
    mrussel1 said:
    There's nothing wrong with a car payment if your rate is below the average rate of market return.  You would not pay cash in that scenario under standard economic principles.  If someone is willing to lend you money at 1-5%, which you get during low discount rate times,  you take it all day even if you don't need it.  Take it from a fool. 
    Meh, I would still rather my money be going towards an investment that earns 8-15% than paying towards a loan that essentially makes your cash worth less, even at 1-5%.  If you can take out a 1-5 apr loan (like a business loan or something) and put it towards something that earns over 5%, then I may be on board :)
    edit:  I didn’t see the “below the rate of market returns”, but I still would rather my monthly income not be going towards paying a loan of any kind.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,500
    Since we're talking about cars, I drive a 2006 Kia Sedona. I've had it for 3 years and it runs like a dream.

    I payed $850 CAD for it due to major hail damage, it looks like shit but I love it.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,000
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    There's nothing wrong with a car payment if your rate is below the average rate of market return.  You would not pay cash in that scenario under standard economic principles.  If someone is willing to lend you money at 1-5%, which you get during low discount rate times,  you take it all day even if you don't need it.  Take it from a fool. 
    Meh, I would still rather my money be going towards an investment that earns 8-15% than paying towards a loan that essentially makes your cash worth less, even at 1-5%.  If you can take out a 1-5 apr loan (like a business loan or something) and put it towards something that earns over 5%, then I may be on board :)
    No you're reading it wrong.  If you have 30k in cash, you put that in the market and borrow for the car at 2%, hence the 6 to13% lift delta using your numbers.  You don't pay cash for a depreciating asset.  
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 5,283
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    There's nothing wrong with a car payment if your rate is below the average rate of market return.  You would not pay cash in that scenario under standard economic principles.  If someone is willing to lend you money at 1-5%, which you get during low discount rate times,  you take it all day even if you don't need it.  Take it from a fool. 
    Meh, I would still rather my money be going towards an investment that earns 8-15% than paying towards a loan that essentially makes your cash worth less, even at 1-5%.  If you can take out a 1-5 apr loan (like a business loan or something) and put it towards something that earns over 5%, then I may be on board :)
    No you're reading it wrong.  If you have 30k in cash, you put that in the market and borrow for the car at 2%, hence the 6 to13% lift delta using your numbers.  You don't pay cash for a depreciating asset.  
    I see what you are saying :)
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 5,283
    dignin said:
    Since we're talking about cars, I drive a 2006 Kia Sedona. I've had it for 3 years and it runs like a dream.

    I payed $850 CAD for it due to major hail damage, it looks like shit but I love it.
    Nice!  
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,094
    dankind said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I think the difference here is city folk compared to suburband/rural people.  If I moved to a city I wouldn’t have a car but that obviously isn’t reality.  
    I'd lived in walkable cities for around 25 years, but moved to a shitty suburb in 2015. Other than getting my kids to hockey practice or doc appointments and back, I very rarely drive anywhere. We have two cars for divide-and-conquer days (i.e., when the kids have stuff scheduled at the same time but at different locations), but I still cycle, walk, bum a ride, hop on a bus/train, or take a Lyft basically anywhere I go without the family.
    Do you work at home?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,094
    dignin said:
    Since we're talking about cars, I drive a 2006 Kia Sedona. I've had it for 3 years and it runs like a dream.

    I payed $850 CAD for it due to major hail damage, it looks like shit but I love it.
    That’s awesome!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 14,376
    mcgruff10 said:
    dankind said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I think the difference here is city folk compared to suburband/rural people.  If I moved to a city I wouldn’t have a car but that obviously isn’t reality.  
    I'd lived in walkable cities for around 25 years, but moved to a shitty suburb in 2015. Other than getting my kids to hockey practice or doc appointments and back, I very rarely drive anywhere. We have two cars for divide-and-conquer days (i.e., when the kids have stuff scheduled at the same time but at different locations), but I still cycle, walk, bum a ride, hop on a bus/train, or take a Lyft basically anywhere I go without the family.
    Do you work at home?
    Some days, when a kid is sick or the train is delayed/canceled, etc. But most of my work days, I walk to the commuter rail station and take the train to Boston's North Station. From there, I either walk (~40 minutes), ride one of the bikeshare bikes (~15 minutes) or take another train (~whothefuckknowshowlong?) to work in Back Bay.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,540

    14 cities around the world that are better for pedestrians than people with cars

    Around the world, some cities are making strides to go car-free.

    Promoting motorless zones not only makes cities more friendly for those on foot or cycling. The change can also improve air quality and congestion as well as help preserve historic streets that might otherwise be damaged by constant use and overcrowding.





    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767
    edited October 4
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
    I get it, M.  I was a big car enthusiast when I was young and sort of still am in a way.  I loved my first car- a mid 60's Riley 1.5 with it's rosewood dash, leather seats and amber blinking turn-signal arm- and equally loved my '65 Chevy Malibu.  And  I have to admit that I really like my Prius.  It gets great gas mileage, it will last at least 300,000 miles.  With back seats that fold flat and a rear hatch, I can haul several boxes of books when I need to. 

    But times are changing.  We need to start finding other things to focus on.
    Well that is exactly where I'm coming from (and I wasn't calling you a fool mrussel1, but I do think it's somewhat foolish to cling to the fetishization of cars at this point in time). It is simply time for people to start adjusting, and to let go of the car thing to every extent possible where they live. Obviously that includes cars as a hobby. I know people are into them and are really defensive about this concept ... But life isn't always fair, and I think in this case, letting go of the North American car obsession is for the greater good. People are really going to have to start understanding that they are actually going to have to make sacrifices for the sake of the our environment and to change culture towards that end. That doesn't even have to include public transit, but FFS, this strong resistance to even alternative transportation for individuals, like e-cars and e-bikes, is starting to simply come of as selfish and irresponsible.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,000
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
    I get it, M.  I was a big car enthusiast when I was young and sort of still am in a way.  I loved my first car- a mid 60's Riley 1.5 with it's rosewood dash, leather seats and amber blinking turn-signal arm- and equally loved my '65 Chevy Malibu.  And  I have to admit that I really like my Prius.  It gets great gas mileage, it will last at least 300,000 miles.  With back seats that fold flat and a rear hatch, I can haul several boxes of books when I need to. 

    But times are changing.  We need to start finding other things to focus on.
    Well that is exactly where I'm coming from (and I wasn't calling you a fool mrussel1, but I do think it's somewhat foolish to cling to the fetishization of cars at this point in time). It is simply time for people to start adjusting, and to let go of the car thing to every extent possible where they live. Obviously that includes cars as a hobby. I know people are into them and are really defensive about this concept ... But life isn't always fair, and I think in this case, letting go of the North American car obsession is for the greater good. People are really going to have to start understanding that they are actually going to have to make sacrifices for the sake of the our environment and to change culture towards that end. That doesn't even have to include public transit, but FFS, this strong resistance to even alternative transportation for individuals, like e-cars and e-bikes, is starting to simply come of as selfish and irresponsible.
    I'm not resistant to alternatives at all.  The reality is cars will continue to be a hobby of some sort until well after I and most on here leave the earth.  Even if crude was outlawed, which isn't imminent, there will be alternatives to convert combustion engines and keep all the collectors happy.  Seeing how R12 converted to R134 refigerant is a perfect example of what will happen.  The market adapts and people with a hobby will continue on..  In no time in the future will I stop enjoying cars.  It's as part of me as music, turntables and Pearl Jam is for many of you. 
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,984
    I'm curious how this affects various power grids.  I mean, in California (and I assume other states / cities) during various times of the year we're prone to brownouts, encouraged to use appliances during designated hours to conserve energy, keep the heat / AC at certain levels, etc.

    If someone with an electric car battery needs juice during an outage, are they shit out of luck?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,540
    hedonist said:
    I'm curious how this affects various power grids.  I mean, in California (and I assume other states / cities) during various times of the year we're prone to brownouts, encouraged to use appliances during designated hours to conserve energy, keep the heat / AC at certain levels, etc.

    If someone with an electric car battery needs juice during an outage, are they shit out of luck?
    I would think so, unless they also own a fairly powerful gas driven (lol, oh the irony) generator.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 3,821
    brianlux said:
    hedonist said:
    I'm curious how this affects various power grids.  I mean, in California (and I assume other states / cities) during various times of the year we're prone to brownouts, encouraged to use appliances during designated hours to conserve energy, keep the heat / AC at certain levels, etc.

    If someone with an electric car battery needs juice during an outage, are they shit out of luck?
    I would think so, unless they also own a fairly powerful gas driven (lol, oh the irony) generator.
    not if you have a house equipped with wind and  solar.  Actaully isn't crazy or unattainable to have totally off grid houses.  They are everywhere.

    Plus if you're worrying about blackouts or brownouts there are bigger issues.
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,984
    Smellyman said:
    brianlux said:
    hedonist said:
    I'm curious how this affects various power grids.  I mean, in California (and I assume other states / cities) during various times of the year we're prone to brownouts, encouraged to use appliances during designated hours to conserve energy, keep the heat / AC at certain levels, etc.

    If someone with an electric car battery needs juice during an outage, are they shit out of luck?
    I would think so, unless they also own a fairly powerful gas driven (lol, oh the irony) generator.
    not if you have a house equipped with wind and  solar.  Actaully isn't crazy or unattainable to have totally off grid houses.  They are everywhere.

    Plus if you're worrying about blackouts or brownouts there are bigger issues.
    Of course there are; there always are.  Silly me for wanting reliable power!

    I can see where shelling out $10 - 15K may pay off over time.  For me, it wouldn't be a priority - well, it's moot, really.


  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,540
    Smellyman said:
    brianlux said:
    hedonist said:
    I'm curious how this affects various power grids.  I mean, in California (and I assume other states / cities) during various times of the year we're prone to brownouts, encouraged to use appliances during designated hours to conserve energy, keep the heat / AC at certain levels, etc.

    If someone with an electric car battery needs juice during an outage, are they shit out of luck?
    I would think so, unless they also own a fairly powerful gas driven (lol, oh the irony) generator.
    not if you have a house equipped with wind and  solar.  Actaully isn't crazy or unattainable to have totally off grid houses.  They are everywhere.

    Plus if you're worrying about blackouts or brownouts there are bigger issues.
    If I thought I were staying in one place long enough, I would get solar, but I never expect to be in one home for long enough to make it pay off.  What should be done is to set it up so that the cost of solar is attached to one's mortgage.  That way, if you move, the solar payments go to the new owner.  A lot more people would go solar if this were done.  Simple solution.  Why this isn't done is beyond me.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287
    Gretas theme song:


    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287

    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,267
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    Negative.  Driving a car or bike hard is so exhilarating.  Have you never tracked a car? Nothing like that adrenaline for me. 

    Do you mean bicycle or motor bike? If bicycle, I'll agree with that, but in that case it's your own effort and strength and expanding your limits that's exhilarating. Just pushing the gas peddle on a vehicle is boring. 
    I don't know about that.  Cruising around yesterday in the countryside listening to pj on sirius was pretty damn fun.  
    Yup.  I agree.  Just came back from Dad's...had Bob Seger cranked.  You can't do that on public transit...well you can if you have earbuds.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,267
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
    I get it, M.  I was a big car enthusiast when I was young and sort of still am in a way.  I loved my first car- a mid 60's Riley 1.5 with it's rosewood dash, leather seats and amber blinking turn-signal arm- and equally loved my '65 Chevy Malibu.  And  I have to admit that I really like my Prius.  It gets great gas mileage, it will last at least 300,000 miles.  With back seats that fold flat and a rear hatch, I can haul several boxes of books when I need to. 

    But times are changing.  We need to start finding other things to focus on.
    Well that is exactly where I'm coming from (and I wasn't calling you a fool mrussel1, but I do think it's somewhat foolish to cling to the fetishization of cars at this point in time). It is simply time for people to start adjusting, and to let go of the car thing to every extent possible where they live. Obviously that includes cars as a hobby. I know people are into them and are really defensive about this concept ... But life isn't always fair, and I think in this case, letting go of the North American car obsession is for the greater good. People are really going to have to start understanding that they are actually going to have to make sacrifices for the sake of the our environment and to change culture towards that end. That doesn't even have to include public transit, but FFS, this strong resistance to even alternative transportation for individuals, like e-cars and e-bikes, is starting to simply come of as selfish and irresponsible.
    I'm not resistant to alternatives at all.  The reality is cars will continue to be a hobby of some sort until well after I and most on here leave the earth.  Even if crude was outlawed, which isn't imminent, there will be alternatives to convert combustion engines and keep all the collectors happy.  Seeing how R12 converted to R134 refigerant is a perfect example of what will happen.  The market adapts and people with a hobby will continue on..  In no time in the future will I stop enjoying cars.  It's as part of me as music, turntables and Pearl Jam is for many of you. 
    Continue to enjoy cars and your hobby...there are millions of Canadians and Americans in which cars are their hobby.  My brother in law is the biggest car freak I know.  He spent 30 grand to rebuild a 71' Nova just to amateur drag race with...went through 2 after engines and then sold it...LOL...for around 6 grand after putting the 3rd motor in.  Mind you the 3rd was just a motor to get the car sold.  Since then he has only owned Honda Civics...LOL
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
    I get it, M.  I was a big car enthusiast when I was young and sort of still am in a way.  I loved my first car- a mid 60's Riley 1.5 with it's rosewood dash, leather seats and amber blinking turn-signal arm- and equally loved my '65 Chevy Malibu.  And  I have to admit that I really like my Prius.  It gets great gas mileage, it will last at least 300,000 miles.  With back seats that fold flat and a rear hatch, I can haul several boxes of books when I need to. 

    But times are changing.  We need to start finding other things to focus on.
    Well that is exactly where I'm coming from (and I wasn't calling you a fool mrussel1, but I do think it's somewhat foolish to cling to the fetishization of cars at this point in time). It is simply time for people to start adjusting, and to let go of the car thing to every extent possible where they live. Obviously that includes cars as a hobby. I know people are into them and are really defensive about this concept ... But life isn't always fair, and I think in this case, letting go of the North American car obsession is for the greater good. People are really going to have to start understanding that they are actually going to have to make sacrifices for the sake of the our environment and to change culture towards that end. That doesn't even have to include public transit, but FFS, this strong resistance to even alternative transportation for individuals, like e-cars and e-bikes, is starting to simply come of as selfish and irresponsible.
    I'm not resistant to alternatives at all.  The reality is cars will continue to be a hobby of some sort until well after I and most on here leave the earth.  Even if crude was outlawed, which isn't imminent, there will be alternatives to convert combustion engines and keep all the collectors happy.  Seeing how R12 converted to R134 refigerant is a perfect example of what will happen.  The market adapts and people with a hobby will continue on..  In no time in the future will I stop enjoying cars.  It's as part of me as music, turntables and Pearl Jam is for many of you. 


    http://www.lincvolt.com/
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,000
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
    I get it, M.  I was a big car enthusiast when I was young and sort of still am in a way.  I loved my first car- a mid 60's Riley 1.5 with it's rosewood dash, leather seats and amber blinking turn-signal arm- and equally loved my '65 Chevy Malibu.  And  I have to admit that I really like my Prius.  It gets great gas mileage, it will last at least 300,000 miles.  With back seats that fold flat and a rear hatch, I can haul several boxes of books when I need to. 

    But times are changing.  We need to start finding other things to focus on.
    Well that is exactly where I'm coming from (and I wasn't calling you a fool mrussel1, but I do think it's somewhat foolish to cling to the fetishization of cars at this point in time). It is simply time for people to start adjusting, and to let go of the car thing to every extent possible where they live. Obviously that includes cars as a hobby. I know people are into them and are really defensive about this concept ... But life isn't always fair, and I think in this case, letting go of the North American car obsession is for the greater good. People are really going to have to start understanding that they are actually going to have to make sacrifices for the sake of the our environment and to change culture towards that end. That doesn't even have to include public transit, but FFS, this strong resistance to even alternative transportation for individuals, like e-cars and e-bikes, is starting to simply come of as selfish and irresponsible.
    I'm not resistant to alternatives at all.  The reality is cars will continue to be a hobby of some sort until well after I and most on here leave the earth.  Even if crude was outlawed, which isn't imminent, there will be alternatives to convert combustion engines and keep all the collectors happy.  Seeing how R12 converted to R134 refigerant is a perfect example of what will happen.  The market adapts and people with a hobby will continue on..  In no time in the future will I stop enjoying cars.  It's as part of me as music, turntables and Pearl Jam is for many of you. 


    http://www.lincvolt.com/
    Well there you go.  The market adapts. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287
    edited October 5
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
    I get it, M.  I was a big car enthusiast when I was young and sort of still am in a way.  I loved my first car- a mid 60's Riley 1.5 with it's rosewood dash, leather seats and amber blinking turn-signal arm- and equally loved my '65 Chevy Malibu.  And  I have to admit that I really like my Prius.  It gets great gas mileage, it will last at least 300,000 miles.  With back seats that fold flat and a rear hatch, I can haul several boxes of books when I need to. 

    But times are changing.  We need to start finding other things to focus on.
    Well that is exactly where I'm coming from (and I wasn't calling you a fool mrussel1, but I do think it's somewhat foolish to cling to the fetishization of cars at this point in time). It is simply time for people to start adjusting, and to let go of the car thing to every extent possible where they live. Obviously that includes cars as a hobby. I know people are into them and are really defensive about this concept ... But life isn't always fair, and I think in this case, letting go of the North American car obsession is for the greater good. People are really going to have to start understanding that they are actually going to have to make sacrifices for the sake of the our environment and to change culture towards that end. That doesn't even have to include public transit, but FFS, this strong resistance to even alternative transportation for individuals, like e-cars and e-bikes, is starting to simply come of as selfish and irresponsible.
    I'm not resistant to alternatives at all.  The reality is cars will continue to be a hobby of some sort until well after I and most on here leave the earth.  Even if crude was outlawed, which isn't imminent, there will be alternatives to convert combustion engines and keep all the collectors happy.  Seeing how R12 converted to R134 refigerant is a perfect example of what will happen.  The market adapts and people with a hobby will continue on..  In no time in the future will I stop enjoying cars.  It's as part of me as music, turntables and Pearl Jam is for many of you. 


    http://www.lincvolt.com/
    Well there you go.  The market adapts. 
    Neil Young at the forefront again. 

    And people laughed at Trans.

    Well...


    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,626
    We can get rid of cars.

    As long as we keep motorcycles. 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,000
    We can get rid of cars.

    As long as we keep motorcycles. 
    You mean electric scooters?  Because 1000cc that rev to 14000 are taboo 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,540
    We can get rid of cars.

    As long as we keep motorcycles. 
    I used to think motorcycles were cool.  In high school, along side all my Hendrix and Fillmore West, Avalon Ballroom and Winterland posters and hand bills, I had a poster of Peter Fonda from Easy Rider on a bike and another of Steve McQueen from The Great Escape.

    Any more though, I mostly hate them.  Where I live, the majority of riders have reamed out the mufflers so they are loud as fuck.  I've had my ears dinged countless time- each time making my tinnitus worse.  They roar up main street setting off car alarms.  One bike went by so loudly once it literally busted out a window in one of the other shops in  town.  No fun.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,000
    brianlux said:
    We can get rid of cars.

    As long as we keep motorcycles. 
    I used to think motorcycles were cool.  In high school, along side all my Hendrix and Fillmore West, Avalon Ballroom and Winterland posters and hand bills, I had a poster of Peter Fonda from Easy Rider on a bike and another of Steve McQueen from The Great Escape.

    Any more though, I mostly hate them.  Where I live, the majority of riders have reamed out the mufflers so they are loud as fuck.  I've had my ears dinged countless time- each time making my tinnitus worse.  They roar up main street setting off car alarms.  One bike went by so loudly once it literally busted out a window in one of the other shops in  town.  No fun.
    So I don't know how loud your talking, but there is a truism that "loud pipes save lives".  
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,540
    edited October 5
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    We can get rid of cars.

    As long as we keep motorcycles. 
    I used to think motorcycles were cool.  In high school, along side all my Hendrix and Fillmore West, Avalon Ballroom and Winterland posters and hand bills, I had a poster of Peter Fonda from Easy Rider on a bike and another of Steve McQueen from The Great Escape.

    Any more though, I mostly hate them.  Where I live, the majority of riders have reamed out the mufflers so they are loud as fuck.  I've had my ears dinged countless time- each time making my tinnitus worse.  They roar up main street setting off car alarms.  One bike went by so loudly once it literally busted out a window in one of the other shops in  town.  No fun.
    So I don't know how loud your talking, but there is a truism that "loud pipes save lives".  
    I'm talking about loud enough to be harmful to one's hearing.  That is not OK.  Damaging innocent bystanders' hearing is not OK.  And I say that not just I have damaged ears.  I know others with normal hearing who feel the same way.  Anyone with normal hearing can hear a motorcycle without it pipes reamed out.  The loudness at the level I'm talking about has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with "Look at me!"  In most case it's macho bullshit carried out by sexually insecure men.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,094
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    Negative.  Driving a car or bike hard is so exhilarating.  Have you never tracked a car? Nothing like that adrenaline for me. 

    Do you mean bicycle or motor bike? If bicycle, I'll agree with that, but in that case it's your own effort and strength and expanding your limits that's exhilarating. Just pushing the gas peddle on a vehicle is boring. 
    I don't know about that.  Cruising around yesterday in the countryside listening to pj on sirius was pretty damn fun.  
    Yup.  I agree.  Just came back from Dad's...had Bob Seger cranked.  You can't do that on public transit...well you can if you have earbuds.

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,000
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    We can get rid of cars.

    As long as we keep motorcycles. 
    I used to think motorcycles were cool.  In high school, along side all my Hendrix and Fillmore West, Avalon Ballroom and Winterland posters and hand bills, I had a poster of Peter Fonda from Easy Rider on a bike and another of Steve McQueen from The Great Escape.

    Any more though, I mostly hate them.  Where I live, the majority of riders have reamed out the mufflers so they are loud as fuck.  I've had my ears dinged countless time- each time making my tinnitus worse.  They roar up main street setting off car alarms.  One bike went by so loudly once it literally busted out a window in one of the other shops in  town.  No fun.
    So I don't know how loud your talking, but there is a truism that "loud pipes save lives".  
    I'm talking about loud enough to be harmful to one's hearing.  That is not OK.  Damaging innocent bystanders' hearing is not OK.  And I say that not just I have damaged ears.  I know others with normal hearing who feel the same way.  Anyone with normal hearing can hear a motorcycle without it pipes reamed out.  The loudness at the level I'm talking about has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with "Look at me!"  In most case it's macho bullshit carried out by sexually insecure men.
    You must be talking hogs which are definitely not my thing.  I've heard what you're taking about and it's obnoxious.  I am a fan of high flow pipes which are louder, but stock super bikes are too quiet and a risk especially at night.  I would always down shift when I suspected someone was oblivious to my presence,  just ao they heard me  
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