Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?
Comments
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I don't see how that has anything to do with it. How can a fetus be a life in one scenario, but the same exact fetus not in another? I don't see how the woman being a victim of assault changes any of that with respect to the fetus.dignin said:
Easy, one case has a victim the other doesn't.mace1229 said:
Only not a person by law depending on which law you are reading.dignin said:
Well, she can believe that but that fetus isn't viable until around 24 weeks so by law it is not a person. You will always have people believing one way or the other but your friend is the only one trying to make decisions for a complete stranger when they have no skin in the game. I'm really not concerned about how they feel when they won't have to deal with the consequences of those decisions. The point is it's none of her business.PJPOWER said:
No, the crux of it is that she believes that nobody has the right to take a human life with a beating heart (just like the life of a newborn). Her concern is not about the woman’s body, but about the body of the individual living inside of her that has equal rights to their body. That’s where the moral/ethical limits come into play. Some people think it is killing a human being, some people believe it is aborting a fetus (non-human being). That is the dividing line in my observation.dignin said:
Great, your friend doesn't have to have an abortion then. Nobody will tell her what she can and can't do with her body. She also doesn't have any business telling anyone what they can and can't do with their body. That's the crux of it.PJPOWER said:
I think that it probably mostly is, but not 100%. One of my friends that identifies as a non-Christian liberal had some fertility issues and went the route of adopting after trying various other means. She always said that she felt that raising a child was the greatest desire she has in life. We have discussed the topic of abortion on a couple occasions (we talk politics a lot) and she is adamantly against abortion and believes it should only be used as a last resort in life threatening situations. She believed that once a heartbeat is detected that the cells have become a life and deserves the same rights to life that a newborn baby does.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Are there no Christian 'liberals'?
Exceptions aside... I see this issue as predominantly a religious one where the values espoused by the cult are trying to be imposed on society as a whole.
I think her life experiences, not religion or politics, has led her to this belief. Pretty sure it’s still not enough of an issue to make her vote republican, but if it was a single issue she was voting for, I would guarantee you that she would vote against abortion.
She may be an anomaly, and the only reason I’m throwing her into this issue is because I think it is a way more complicated than simply religion. It is a morals and ethics debate, and I am told that the religious as well as non-religious can develop their own moral and ethical limits
So what about feticide and the unborn victims of violence act? Does the law not contradict itself on those cases? One case its a human with rights and you can be charged with manslaughter or murder, but if it is the mother then it's a different story? How is this not a complete contradiction?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feticide0 -
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.0 -
Exactly. Goes with my statement earlier of not understand or misrepresenting the other side. No one is pro-life because of women's rights, they are pro-life because of life. Gender would not change that opinion.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.0 -
false. while I don't believe it's the majority, that is definitely part of it for some.mace1229 said:
Exactly. Goes with my statement earlier of not understand or misrepresenting the other side. No one is pro-life because of women's rights, they are pro-life because of life. Gender would not change that opinion.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Virtually every poll I've seen shows at least half of pro-life supports or more are women. It just doesn't make sense to say its a women's rights issue or even more that this issue wouldn't exist if men conceive.
The law that several found disgusting with Mississippi restricting abortions to 15 weeks, well 77% of women would support restricting it to the first trimester which is earlier than that.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/27/poll_finds_most_women_back_abortion_restrictions_132913.html
Forgive me if anyone doesn't approve of that source, essential any search had the same data. There's no denying that women make up an equal or greater portion of the pro-life movement.0 -
Maybe not "no one." There's always crazies everywhere. But I think it would be an insignificant portion.HughFreakingDillon said:
false. while I don't believe it's the majority, that is definitely part of it for some.mace1229 said:
Exactly. Goes with my statement earlier of not understand or misrepresenting the other side. No one is pro-life because of women's rights, they are pro-life because of life. Gender would not change that opinion.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
I know some didn't vote for Romney because he was mormon. I also believe it was an insignificant portion and didn't impact the results at all.
I would chalk up those whoa re pro-life because they feel women are lesser is also an insignificant portion. The overwhelming vast majority has to do with life or not life.0 -
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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If that were the case I doubt courts would favor mothers in child custody/support hearings. If laws are made by men to favor men, why is that not the case?0
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I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.0 -
mace1229 said:Virtually every poll I've seen shows at least half of pro-life supports or more are women. It just doesn't make sense to say its a women's rights issue or even more that this issue wouldn't exist if men conceive.
The law that several found disgusting with Mississippi restricting abortions to 15 weeks, well 77% of women would support restricting it to the first trimester which is earlier than that.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/27/poll_finds_most_women_back_abortion_restrictions_132913.html
Forgive me if anyone doesn't approve of that source, essential any search had the same data. There's no denying that women make up an equal or greater portion of the pro-life movement.
I'm definitely pro-choice, but I do think that the earlier the procedure is done... the better. Scraping out 'goop' is better in my mind than extracting a baby almost at full term.
That being said... I'll side with a woman to make whatever choice she decides for herself.
I'll never buy the idea that life begins at the moment of conception. If you're going to argue that... you may as well say sperm cells are life and ban masturbation. Or for that matter... go hard core (like some zealots do already) and cease the unnatural practice of birth control.
"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Wow. Would that ever NOT be worth it.PJPOWER said:
You may actually be on to something. Just the other day, I heard a diehard conservative say that they would support an assault weapon ban if an abortion ban was also tied to it...MayDay10 said:There will still be a large number of people clinging to guns and bibles, and will eat up when someone like Donald Trump pretends to be a holy roller.... but if the issue of abortion was removed, it would kick the legs out enough where Republicans (as they currently stand) would never win a National election, and also flip a lot of congressional seats.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Read up on the outrage when a woman legislator introduced a bill to strip health plans from covering viagra prescriptions.PJPOWER said:
I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Whataboutism...meh, you would have posted a link if it was relevant to this subject...but it isn’t.Halifax2TheMax said:
Read up on the outrage when a woman legislator introduced a bill to strip health plans from covering viagra prescriptions.PJPOWER said:
I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.0 -
That wasn't whataboutism, lol.PJPOWER said:
Whataboutism...meh, you would have posted a link if it was relevant to this subject...but it isn’t.Halifax2TheMax said:
Read up on the outrage when a woman legislator introduced a bill to strip health plans from covering viagra prescriptions.PJPOWER said:
I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
whataboutism is changing the subject to something irrelevant. this IS relevant. if a woman tries to regulate what a man can or can't access, healthcare wise or other, all hell breaks looks.PJPOWER said:
Whataboutism...meh, you would have posted a link if it was relevant to this subject...but it isn’t.Halifax2TheMax said:
Read up on the outrage when a woman legislator introduced a bill to strip health plans from covering viagra prescriptions.PJPOWER said:
I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
men regulating women? just par for the course.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kentucky-bill-wives-permission-viagra/PJPOWER said:
Whataboutism...meh, you would have posted a link if it was relevant to this subject...but it isn’t.Halifax2TheMax said:
Read up on the outrage when a woman legislator introduced a bill to strip health plans from covering viagra prescriptions.PJPOWER said:
I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/hero-kansas-lawmaker-introduces-bill-requiring-men-to-get-permission-from-spouse-for-viagra-20170221-guhlep.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/want-viagra-s-c-bill-would-make-men-go-through-n480741
Ask and ye shall receive, in threes, seeing how it seems to be the flava of the day.
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In my opinion, it is comparing apples and oranges. Nowhere near equivalent. I do not remember this outrage, speaking of which. Anyone have a link to the street protests? And the FDA could very well make viagra illegal if it was shown to cause health problems as it is just another drug. And, once again, the main argument is not against the woman’s healthcare, but the care of the life growing within that woman.HughFreakingDillon said:
whataboutism is changing the subject to something irrelevant. this IS relevant. if a woman tries to regulate what a man can or can't access, healthcare wise or other, all hell breaks looks.PJPOWER said:
Whataboutism...meh, you would have posted a link if it was relevant to this subject...but it isn’t.Halifax2TheMax said:
Read up on the outrage when a woman legislator introduced a bill to strip health plans from covering viagra prescriptions.PJPOWER said:
I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
men regulating women? just par for the course.
And once again, there are plenty of women that are apposed to abortion.
It is not just a “men want to regulate women” issue. Maybe back in the 40s, you could have made a case there.
I gotta say, this thread is making me more pro life by the second, lolPost edited by PJPOWER on0 -
Slippery slope.PJPOWER said:
In my opinion, it is comparing apples and oranges. Nowhere near equivalent. I do not remember this outrage, speaking of which. Anyone have a link to the street protests? And the FDA could very well make viagra illegal if it was shown to cause health problems as it is just another drug. And, once again, the main argument is not against the woman’s healthcare, but the care of the life growing within that woman.HughFreakingDillon said:
whataboutism is changing the subject to something irrelevant. this IS relevant. if a woman tries to regulate what a man can or can't access, healthcare wise or other, all hell breaks looks.PJPOWER said:
Whataboutism...meh, you would have posted a link if it was relevant to this subject...but it isn’t.Halifax2TheMax said:
Read up on the outrage when a woman legislator introduced a bill to strip health plans from covering viagra prescriptions.PJPOWER said:
I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
men regulating women? just par for the course.
And once again, there are plenty of women that are apposed to abortion.
It is not just a “men want to regulate women” issue. Maybe back in the 40s, you could have made a case there.
I gotta say, this thread is making me more pro life by the second, lol09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Um, where are the massive protests and outrage? From what I’ve read, it was largely ignored. She tried to make a point and no one cared. Thanks for the links, though, I hadn’t even heard of it...again making me think it was a big nothing political ploy that didn’t even gain much attention.Halifax2TheMax said:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kentucky-bill-wives-permission-viagra/PJPOWER said:
Whataboutism...meh, you would have posted a link if it was relevant to this subject...but it isn’t.Halifax2TheMax said:
Read up on the outrage when a woman legislator introduced a bill to strip health plans from covering viagra prescriptions.PJPOWER said:
I don’t agree, but this hypothesis is obviously impossible to conclude and is merely an opinionated assumption.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, there'd be debate about when life begins but there wouldn't be any debate about restricting or banning and certainly no laws to those effects would be passed.PJPOWER said:
Oh, I think there would still be different opinions on what constitutes a life and what does not.Halifax2TheMax said:If men could conceive, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/hero-kansas-lawmaker-introduces-bill-requiring-men-to-get-permission-from-spouse-for-viagra-20170221-guhlep.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/want-viagra-s-c-bill-would-make-men-go-through-n480741
Ask and ye shall receive, in threes, seeing how it seems to be the flava of the day.0 -
No, you’ve totally misunderstood and misconstrued my post. The “placate” comment clearly referred to giving up on fighting for access to health care I’m order to try to get concessions elsewhere. It doesn’t say that’s the reason people may be anti-choice.mace1229 said:
If that is your view on pro-choice vs pro-life then you have missed the mark on this one. I've mentioned it before, and this is one of my biggest pet peeves about this debate. How pro-choicers misrepresent the pro-life side (I know it happens on both sides. But seems to be more common one way).oftenreading said:
Abortion is one of the major dividing issues, it’s true, though I’m not sure I agree with your assessment here. But if it were true, are you suggesting that “let them have it” is a preferred option? Because if you are, you’re willing to give up on a major feature of women’s health and women’s rights just to placate those who want to continue to restrict women’s “place” in society. And I agree with Halifax, it would not end there.MayDay10 said:There will still be a large number of people clinging to guns and bibles, and will eat up when someone like Donald Trump pretends to be a holy roller.... but if the issue of abortion was removed, it would kick the legs out enough where Republicans (as they currently stand) would never win a National election, and also flip a lot of congressional seats.
I have never met anyone who is pro-life because they are to restrict women's right. That person does not exist. Which is why there is not a big gender bag in pro life vs pro choice.
To suggest pro-life exists because "placate those who want to continue to restrict women’s “place” in society." then I would think you have never really listened to a single pro-life argument, ever. But probably just get your pro-life impressions from liberal politicians. I've never heard those accusations more than from liberal politicians who just want to make you believe I am pro-life because I hate women. So why are so many women pro-life then?
I would recommend that everyone seriously sit down and talk with someone from a different point of view, and really listen to them. No matter what the topic is. You can learn a lot from talking to other people. Anyone who thinks pro-life is about restricting women has never done that, or listened to what they have to say.
And I’ve certainly spoken with people who are anti-choice whose reasons centre around controlling women’s reproductive options, so don’t try to argue that those people aren’t out there.
And finally, I didn’t use the term “hate women”. That’s your term, don’t try to project that as my argument.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0
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- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.1K Flea Market
- 39.1K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help