Hurricane Harvey

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Comments

  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,085
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    Completely stupid.

    My free market solution was to donate to a worthy agency, in this case Citizens Assisting Citizens.  No overhead to pay off govt people.

    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Houston Mayor really failed these people.
    How so?
    He told everyone to stay put.  Just like Katrina people should have got out.  It was very clear how bad this was going to be.
    So you wanted the government to tell people what to do?
    Fine.  Stay.  Don't cry on TV that your house got flooded out.
    Private charities have administrative costs, too. Some way too high. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Houston Mayor really failed these people.
    How so?
    He told everyone to stay put.  Just like Katrina people should have got out.  It was very clear how bad this was going to be.
    So you wanted the government to tell people what to do?
    Fine.  Stay.  Don't cry on TV that your house got flooded out.
    Evacuating doesn't prevent one's house from getting flooded out ... :confused:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited August 2017
    A 1 in 1000 year event (note that this is a debatable stat) ...... I'm thinking the extent of the flooding itself is likely thanks to the paving over of wetlands, from the articles I've read.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/08/31/harvey-is-a-1000-year-flood-event-unprecedented-in-scale/?utm_term=.f83c6d9d144b&wpisrc=al_alert-national&wpmk=1

    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Houston Mayor really failed these people.
    How so?
    He told everyone to stay put.  Just like Katrina people should have got out.  It was very clear how bad this was going to be.
    So you wanted the government to tell people what to do?
    Fine.  Stay.  Don't cry on TV that your house got flooded out.
    Evacuating doesn't prevent one's house from getting flooded out ... :confused:
    Yeah, I know, but that wasn't the point.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    Completely stupid.

    My free market solution was to donate to a worthy agency, in this case Citizens Assisting Citizens.  No overhead to pay off govt people.

    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Houston Mayor really failed these people.
    How so?
    He told everyone to stay put.  Just like Katrina people should have got out.  It was very clear how bad this was going to be.
    So you wanted the government to tell people what to do?
    Fine.  Stay.  Don't cry on TV that your house got flooded out.
    Private charities have administrative costs, too. Some way too high. 
    There is definately abuse from both markets, research is necessary.  I donated to this group.

    http://www.cacteam.com/


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Houston Mayor really failed these people.
    How so?
    He told everyone to stay put.  Just like Katrina people should have got out.  It was very clear how bad this was going to be.
    So you wanted the government to tell people what to do?
    Fine.  Stay.  Don't cry on TV that your house got flooded out.
    Evacuating doesn't prevent one's house from getting flooded out ... :confused:
    Yeah, I know, but that wasn't the point.
    What is the point? That people who just lost everything they own shouldn't cry on TV?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    PJ_Soul said:
    A 1 in 1000 year event (note that this is a debatable stat) ...... I'm thinking the extent of the flooding itself is likely thanks to the paving over of wetlands, from the articles I've read.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/08/31/harvey-is-a-1000-year-flood-event-unprecedented-in-scale/?utm_term=.f83c6d9d144b&wpisrc=al_alert-national&wpmk=1

    Yes. No argument that the extent of the flooding is largely due to the lack of anywhere else for the water to go. When huge areas of land are paved, the water can't help but sit there. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think this blind guess about how many people might have died on the roads in an evacuation is a bit stupid.
    Not a blind guess; it references past evacuations. 

    Sure, you can argue that cities should have better evacuation plans, but the reality is that there is no way that a large city like Houston can fully evacuate over a couple of days. It's physically impossible to get all those people out in an orderly, safe manner. And if you could, where do 4 million people go?
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Houston Mayor really failed these people.
    How so?
    He told everyone to stay put.  Just like Katrina people should have got out.  It was very clear how bad this was going to be.
    So you wanted the government to tell people what to do?
    Fine.  Stay.  Don't cry on TV that your house got flooded out.
    Evacuating doesn't prevent one's house from getting flooded out ... :confused:
    Yeah, I know, but that wasn't the point.
    What is the point? That people who just lost everything they own shouldn't cry on TV?
    Ugh.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited August 2017
    CM189191 said:

    Of course you are talking about social programs, right?  There is a difference in social services/programs and a Socialist Government.  The Bernie bros made that clear on a daily basis back when the dude was relevant.  Most people aren't against social services such as FEMA or firefighters, but many are against Socialism style governments that fully try to exclude the free market.  
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,144
    PJPOWER said:
    CM189191 said:

    Of course you are talking about social programs, right?  There is a difference in social services/programs and a Socialist Government.  The Bernie bros made that clear on a daily basis back when the dude was relevant.  Most people aren't against social services such as FEMA or firefighters, but many are against Socialism style governments that fully try to exclude the free market.  
    Whether Sanders' message was miscommunicated or misconstrued, I don't think he was opposed to the free market typically: only on products and services which affect the core requirements of modern life. This might include health, emergency services, education, and job-seeking assistance.

    Access to opportunity or staying alive, in my opinion, should not be a fully free market. But then again, opinions are like assholes.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    benjs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    CM189191 said:

    Of course you are talking about social programs, right?  There is a difference in social services/programs and a Socialist Government.  The Bernie bros made that clear on a daily basis back when the dude was relevant.  Most people aren't against social services such as FEMA or firefighters, but many are against Socialism style governments that fully try to exclude the free market.  
    Whether Sanders' message was miscommunicated or misconstrued, I don't think he was opposed to the free market typically: only on products and services which affect the core requirements of modern life. This might include health, emergency services, education, and job-seeking assistance.

    Access to opportunity or staying alive, in my opinion, should not be a fully free market. But then again, opinions are like assholes.
    I would affirm that as well.  I do not believe fully free market or fully socialized governments would work all that great.  I do tend to lean towards letting the free market taking the lead wherever possible thus my libertarian leaning stance, but understand certain social programs are necessary with large populations. In my opinion, government should stay out of it as much as possible and "try" to let the free market thrive.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    Well, the problem is that the market thrives; it's just that the people don't, at least not most people. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Houston Mayor really failed these people.
    How so?
    He told everyone to stay put.  Just like Katrina people should have got out.  It was very clear how bad this was going to be.
    So you wanted the government to tell people what to do?
    LFine.  Stay.  Don't cry on TV that your house got flooded out.
    Evacuating doesn't prevent one's house from getting flooded out ... :confused:
    Yeah, I know, but that wasn't the point.
    What is the point? That people who just lost everything they own shouldn't cry on TV?
    Ugh.
    What is your magical diagnosis?  Big GOVNT'MENT making rules 
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Not directed towards pj soul^. Dang the iPhone 
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,031
    Most of us are so totally lucky to be sitting in our nice cozy dry homes and talking as if we know what we would do if we lived there.  Shit, I don't have a clue.  Get on an 18 lane freeway with 100,000 maniacs?  Hope my inflatable mattress still hold air?  Wish for a helicopter ride?    I can't imagine being there.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mfc2006mfc2006 Posts: 37,446
    brianlux said:
    Most of us are so totally lucky to be sitting in our nice cozy dry homes and talking as if we know what we would do if we lived there.  Shit, I don't have a clue.  Get on an 18 lane freeway with 100,000 maniacs?  Hope my inflatable mattress still hold air?  Wish for a helicopter ride?    I can't imagine being there.
    I completely agree. That's our hometown and we've been in contact with friends and family for the last week. It's a nightmare down there. Please keep the thoughts & prayers going.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,031
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    Most of us are so totally lucky to be sitting in our nice cozy dry homes and talking as if we know what we would do if we lived there.  Shit, I don't have a clue.  Get on an 18 lane freeway with 100,000 maniacs?  Hope my inflatable mattress still hold air?  Wish for a helicopter ride?    I can't imagine being there.
    I completely agree. That's our hometown and we've been in contact with friends and family for the last week. It's a nightmare down there. Please keep the thoughts & prayers going.
    Absolutely!  And I didn't mean to sound like I have it together and everyone else is out to lunch.  I have to stop myself now and then, remember my relative good fortune, and practice some big-time gratitude for being in a fairly safe place in life.  Compared to some places, very safe.

    Good thoughts still going out for our friends in TX.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mfc2006mfc2006 Posts: 37,446
    brianlux said:
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    Most of us are so totally lucky to be sitting in our nice cozy dry homes and talking as if we know what we would do if we lived there.  Shit, I don't have a clue.  Get on an 18 lane freeway with 100,000 maniacs?  Hope my inflatable mattress still hold air?  Wish for a helicopter ride?    I can't imagine being there.
    I completely agree. That's our hometown and we've been in contact with friends and family for the last week. It's a nightmare down there. Please keep the thoughts & prayers going.
    Absolutely!  And I didn't mean to sound like I have it together and everyone else is out to lunch.  I have to stop myself now and then, remember my relative good fortune, and practice some big-time gratitude for being in a fairly safe place in life.  Compared to some places, very safe.

    Good thoughts still going out for our friends in TX.
    I understood what you meant, man! Gratitude is so important and I think we'd all be better as a country/world if we truly took stock more often.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
  • unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Houston Mayor really failed these people.
    How so?
    He told everyone to stay put.  Just like Katrina people should have got out.  It was very clear how bad this was going to be.
    So you wanted the government to tell people what to do?
    Fine.  Stay.  Don't cry on TV that your house got flooded out.
    Evacuating doesn't prevent one's house from getting flooded out ... :confused:
    Yeah, I know, but that wasn't the point.
    What is your point then?


    hippiemom = goodness
  • It's a really great thing that Trump appointed an obscene critic of the EPA to run the EPA so as to render it ineffective and not help in dealing with this mess. Let the markets regulate themselves. Thanks Donny.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,031
    It's a really great thing that Trump appointed an obscene critic of the EPA to run the EPA so as to render it ineffective and not help in dealing with this mess. Let the markets regulate themselves. Thanks Donny.
    Trump certainly didn't help but this has been an accident waiting to happen for a good while.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,031
    edited September 2017
    Jason P did you ever hear from your uncle?  I hope he's OK!
    Post edited by Kat on
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • dankind said:
    Come down from their golden tower and mingle with the common people? You're kidding me, right? C'mon, cut it out!
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,031
    dankind said:
    Oh man.  That's worth 4,000 words.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • dankind said:
    That's horrible.  

    We will have enough people locally to help though.  Did you see the people coming from all over with their boats to help get people to safety?
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,529
    dankind said:
    That's horrible.  

    We will have enough people locally to help though.  Did you see the people coming from all over with their boats to help get people to safety?
    yes that was one of the beautiful things to see happening.  people helping each other.  as bad as us Americans can treat each other at times we do rally together when needed during crisis.

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