i'm not afraid to call myself an atheist. i always called myself that until i found out what agnostic was. while i don't believe in god, i'm open to the idea of it. that's all.
I hear what you're saying. I consider myself a person that holds a belief that god does not exist (if atheist is the term then call me an atheist) but I would certainly love evidence to prove that way of thinking wrong.
I've enjoyed your discussion hugh? and allison, and I'm going to have to take the lady's side here. God is a fairly well defined concept that can't just be ascribed to anything.
If you think that God is the universe or nature or love, or that God is the fact that there is a vague "higher power", you are just an atheist who is afraid to admit what you are lol
can someone point me in the direction of something that says god has to be this specific set of details that the two of you have mapped out?
Well for one, it is made clear in every dictionary definition. But it is also defined as such by every single religion that ever existed, by every work of literature I've ever seen about god or against god (excluding metaphors), by every major philosophical argument for and against the existence of god that I've ever come across, by every major theologian and atheist on the "circuit", by everything that is known about the oldest ancient history of the concept of god .... Can you explain why you think god does not necessarily have to possess this basic kind of quality and still be god? Because I sincerely don't understand how you can take away that factor of the concept - what I see as literally the only defining factor of the concept - and still think it can be called god.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'll just second that with a yes ma'am thank you, and reiterate, the dictionary.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
I'm going with my long held pair of beliefs that: -If there is a God and we try to define that God in human terms then we have made that God too small. -Based on the above, my belief is that anything that fall under the heading God is inexplicable therefore is a mystery therefore God = Mystery.
Exceptions to the above for me include statements such as: "Eno is God" "Fripp is God" "Sun Ra is God" etc.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What exactly is the discussion here. I feel it's out of my league. The concept of God is the discussion? Either you believe or you dont, right? The discussion just keeps going around and around because one side fights they believe and the other fights they dont.....
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
What exactly is the discussion here. I feel it's out of my league. The concept of God is the discussion? Either you believe or you dont, right? The discussion just keeps going around and around because one side fights they believe and the other fights they dont.....
it doesn't need to be whether one believes in it or not. just what you think, if god exists, what is it? doesn't even have to do anything with religion.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I've enjoyed your discussion hugh? and allison, and I'm going to have to take the lady's side here. God is a fairly well defined concept that can't just be ascribed to anything.
If you think that God is the universe or nature or love, or that God is the fact that there is a vague "higher power", you are just an atheist who is afraid to admit what you are lol
can someone point me in the direction of something that says god has to be this specific set of details that the two of you have mapped out?
Well for one, it is made clear in every dictionary definition. But it is also defined as such by every single religion that ever existed, by every work of literature I've ever seen about god or against god (excluding metaphors), by every major philosophical argument for and against the existence of god that I've ever come across, by every major theologian and atheist on the "circuit", by everything that is known about the oldest ancient history of the concept of god .... Can you explain why you think god does not necessarily have to possess this basic kind of quality and still be god? Because I sincerely don't understand how you can take away that factor of the concept - what I see as literally the only defining factor of the concept - and still think it can be called god.
wow, that's pretty absolute. every single definition, every single work of literature, every major argument for or against god?
guess there's no basis for this thread then.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
scientific pantheism believes the universe and nature are the divine. the divine is defined as a god, or like a god. they believe that the universe has no purpose. it exists for and of itself.
so there's one.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I always forget, do religious people believe everyone is born in sin or just them?
everyone is born sinful apparently. even super cute little babies. that's why they say you need christ, to act as a sin blocker so god can't see them in you. even though christ is god.
god is god. jesus is god's son. god can't see you or your sins with jesus in the way. but god is jesus.
never made sense to me.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
One thing I can tell you for sure: bunny rabbits are not born in sin.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
One thing I can tell you for sure: bunny rabbits are not born in sin.
this is hilarious. as i was checking on our resident litter (they left the nest!!! noooo! they'd better visit), and doing some gardening, i was thinking of that very question, and thought to myself 'bunnies are born pure'.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
One thing I can tell you for sure: bunny rabbits are not born in sin.
this is hilarious. as i was checking on our resident litter (they left the nest!!! noooo! they'd better visit), and doing some gardening, i was thinking of that very question, and thought to myself 'bunnies are born pure'.
LOL, so true!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What exactly is the discussion here. I feel it's out of my league. The concept of God is the discussion? Either you believe or you dont, right? The discussion just keeps going around and around because one side fights they believe and the other fights they dont.....
It's not out of your league if you took the time post your thoughts. AMT is not a big and scary place. Unless you get banned of course. Your thoughts are always welcome here.
Unless I come upon some strange (or not) happening that seals the deal for me - "NO GOD, those who think otherwise are fools!" - or "There IS a god, yada yada", I'm pretty ok with being on the fence, as anything otherwise would feel untrue to myself. To MYself.
Anyone who judges? S'ok. Reflects more on them than myself.
PS - the above isn't meant to come off as antagonistic. I just find both rings of fire to be ridiculous in ways. Not in themselves, but in how those views are sometimes given, as well as received.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
edited May 2017
All of the above works for me as well.
I used to be bugged by people who proselytize but no more. I find it slightly annoying at worst, amusing most of the time and occasionally intriguing.
Like this morning. C. had run off to work while I finished up some work at home and then jumped into the shower. Just as I was drying off I heard a rap on the sliding glass door and figured she had come back for something and was locked out. I ran out in my all together nothingness clothing, rounded the corner, saw two women I didn't know holding books with gilt edges, realized they were probably Jehovah Witnesses, flashed on having heard the best way to open the door to these people is in the altogether nothingness clothes-wise, nevertheless shot back into the bathroom and slipped on some shorts and a t-shirt all the while hollering, "Hold on, be right there!", all this taking about 1.75 seconds. I opened the door, hair dripping, face a bit red and said, "I know, you're Bible students but, look, I'm in a hurry to get out of here."
They were too!
Post edited by brianlux on
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What exactly is the discussion here. I feel it's out of my league. The concept of God is the discussion? Either you believe or you dont, right? The discussion just keeps going around and around because one side fights they believe and the other fights they dont.....
It's not out of your league if you took the time post your thoughts. AMT is not a big and scary place. Unless you get banned of course. Your thoughts are always welcome here.
Honestly, quite a bit here, the comments are way over my head. You guys discuss stuff that I have not even thought about so I can rarely comment.
I just feel God is made more complex than intended. He is commonly referred to as He. I do believe in God. I do believe He is the only God. I do pray. I do read to my kids about God's teachings. I do not go to church at this time. I do believe in the Holy Trinity. I do believe in Catholic guilt
I understand thearguments about religion or organized religion and agendas. But the concept of God the direction you guys are going I don't understand. It's out of my league because I'm a believer. I don't sit around and think of ways He is not.
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
What exactly is the discussion here. I feel it's out of my league. The concept of God is the discussion? Either you believe or you dont, right? The discussion just keeps going around and around because one side fights they believe and the other fights they dont.....
It's not out of your league if you took the time post your thoughts. AMT is not a big and scary place. Unless you get banned of course. Your thoughts are always welcome here.
Honestly, quite a bit here, the comments are way over my head. You guys discuss stuff that I have not even thought about so I can rarely comment.
I just feel God is made more complex than intended. He is commonly referred to as He. I do believe in God. I do believe He is the only God. I do pray. I do read to my kids about God's teachings. I do not go to church at this time. I do believe in the Holy Trinity. I do believe in Catholic guilt
I understand thearguments about religion or organized religion and agendas. But the concept of God the direction you guys are going I don't understand. It's out of my league because I'm a believer. I don't sit around and think of ways He is not.
It started for me by thinking of ways he is not. My first thought was that there was no way a god as powerful as the Bible claims him to be could be so vain and needy. Second thought was that no being of any decency would torture and burn people at all, let alone for inane reasons like making jokes.
The rest follows from there. I seriously doubt that you are literally unable to follow a conversation on the nature of God, it seems more likely to me that you are uncomfortable engaging that line of thought.
What exactly is the discussion here. I feel it's out of my league. The concept of God is the discussion? Either you believe or you dont, right? The discussion just keeps going around and around because one side fights they believe and the other fights they dont.....
It's not out of your league if you took the time post your thoughts. AMT is not a big and scary place. Unless you get banned of course. Your thoughts are always welcome here.
Honestly, quite a bit here, the comments are way over my head. You guys discuss stuff that I have not even thought about so I can rarely comment.
I just feel God is made more complex than intended. He is commonly referred to as He. I do believe in God. I do believe He is the only God. I do pray. I do read to my kids about God's teachings. I do not go to church at this time. I do believe in the Holy Trinity. I do believe in Catholic guilt
I understand thearguments about religion or organized religion and agendas. But the concept of God the direction you guys are going I don't understand. It's out of my league because I'm a believer. I don't sit around and think of ways He is not.
Don't you think it is a good idea to question blind faith?
I used to believe as well. I was taught at a very young age about God. I bought the story. Why wouldn't I? I hated the idea of dying and if an afterlife was promised... I was all in!
Problems arose for me when nobody could even remotely answer some logistical questions I had: where is God and where is Heaven were two natural ones.
When I began to detach, I experienced guilt and other emotions I couldn't quite explain, but the clouds began to clear. And as the clouds began to clear, I began to understand what religion had done to me.
The brain is a powerful thing. Anorexic girls can stare in the mirror and think they are disgustingly fat, yet everyone else sees skin and bones. The mind will believe what it wants to believe and young people are exceptionally impressionable. I was brainwashed into believing something that simply cannot exist.
It still lurks in me somewhat. There is a tinge of guilt creeping within me as I attempt to encourage you to question your faith. I consciously block it though- knowing at is the residual effect of the strong brainwashing effort that seized me when I was younger.
My my wish is for people to reconcile our fortunate existence with life and death on this planet. We will all come and go. We are all in this together. We need to try and treat everyone with that in mind. In my opinion, organized religions have had a negative effect on my wishes.
Isn't it possible that a belief in God can make a person happier and more comfortable in it's life. To have someone that's always there who hear every thought and knows everything about you.
What exactly is the discussion here. I feel it's out of my league. The concept of God is the discussion? Either you believe or you dont, right? The discussion just keeps going around and around because one side fights they believe and the other fights they dont.....
It's not out of your league if you took the time post your thoughts. AMT is not a big and scary place. Unless you get banned of course. Your thoughts are always welcome here.
Honestly, quite a bit here, the comments are way over my head. You guys discuss stuff that I have not even thought about so I can rarely comment.
I just feel God is made more complex than intended. He is commonly referred to as He. I do believe in God. I do believe He is the only God. I do pray. I do read to my kids about God's teachings. I do not go to church at this time. I do believe in the Holy Trinity. I do believe in Catholic guilt
I understand thearguments about religion or organized religion and agendas. But the concept of God the direction you guys are going I don't understand. It's out of my league because I'm a believer. I don't sit around and think of ways He is not.
It started for me by thinking of ways he is not. My first thought was that there was no way a god as powerful as the Bible claims him to be could be so vain and needy. Second thought was that no being of any decency would torture and burn people at all, let alone for inane reasons like making jokes.
The rest follows from there. I seriously doubt that you are literally unable to follow a conversation on the nature of God, it seems more likely to me that you are uncomfortable engaging that line of thought.
I'm going to work backwards. I agree I am not literally unable to follow this discussion nor do I feel uncomfortable. I just feel when discussions get going and people don't agree words get ugly.
I don't care that people don't believe. That doesn't make me uncomfortable. I also don't mind others discussing He doesn't exist. Also doesn't make me uncomfortable.
I was not referring to this thread this discussion being out of my league - more those that mostly congregate here. You're all very experienced and educated and often I skim because there are so many words used I often can't translate.
I have not considered Him to be vain or needy. I will reflect on that.
As far as burning in any of the 10 levels of hell, there are only 2 unforgivable sins. And jokes certainly are not in that burning category.
Hell I don't know if I believe. I have a hard time processing Lucifer punishing anyone for being evil.
I do hear and agree with the organized and agenda religion comments. I want to learn about God and his work I don't want to be preached at or ya know in a cult.
The above shower story is hilarious!
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Isn't it possible that a belief in God can make a person happier and more comfortable in it's life. To have someone that's always there who hear every thought and knows everything about you.
I can see that. It's why I have a cat.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I don't believe there is a god. Could there be a God? I guess, but it definitely is not the being that is portrayed in most religions. In such a vast universe humans are merely an invisible spec in terms of time and space.
Scientists estimate there are1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe, some with suns that have died billions of years ago and god is watching everything we do? God is going to invite all the living beings he has ever created up to the afterlife (if you're good enough) when he already granted us a life in the universe? I just don't buy it.
There are a lot of more intelligent people in this world compared to me, that can explain why God doesn't exist. However, I chose to believe. I know it's not the hip thing to do around these boards but I am not ashamed of my faith! I believe in the Holy Trinity and I believe in Pearl Jam! At least we all have that in common! Much love to you all!
Comments
I consider myself a person that holds a belief that god does not exist (if atheist is the term then call me an atheist) but I would certainly love evidence to prove that way of thinking wrong.
-If there is a God and we try to define that God in human terms then we have made that God too small.
-Based on the above, my belief is that anything that fall under the heading God is inexplicable therefore is a mystery therefore God = Mystery.
Exceptions to the above for me include statements such as:
"Eno is God"
"Fripp is God"
"Sun Ra is God"
etc.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What exactly is the discussion here. I feel it's out of my league. The concept of God is the discussion? Either you believe or you dont, right? The discussion just keeps going around and around because one side fights they believe and the other fights they dont.....
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
-EV 8/14/93
guess there's no basis for this thread then.
-EV 8/14/93
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
-EV 8/14/93
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
so there's one.
-EV 8/14/93
god is god.
jesus is god's son.
god can't see you or your sins with jesus in the way.
but god is jesus.
never made sense to me.
-EV 8/14/93
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Well they are mammals.
Ah, you better stop me before I begin.
-EV 8/14/93
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It's not out of your league if you took the time post your thoughts.
AMT is not a big and scary place. Unless you get banned of course.
Your thoughts are always welcome here.
Sure.
Acceptance or denial of god?
Sure.
Not sure?
No problem with that.
Unless I come upon some strange (or not) happening that seals the deal for me - "NO GOD, those who think otherwise are fools!" - or "There IS a god, yada yada", I'm pretty ok with being on the fence, as anything otherwise would feel untrue to myself. To MYself.
Anyone who judges? S'ok. Reflects more on them than myself.
I used to be bugged by people who proselytize but no more. I find it slightly annoying at worst, amusing most of the time and occasionally intriguing.
Like this morning. C. had run off to work while I finished up some work at home and then jumped into the shower. Just as I was drying off I heard a rap on the sliding glass door and figured she had come back for something and was locked out. I ran out in my all together nothingness clothing, rounded the corner, saw two women I didn't know holding books with gilt edges, realized they were probably Jehovah Witnesses, flashed on having heard the best way to open the door to these people is in the altogether nothingness clothes-wise, nevertheless shot back into the bathroom and slipped on some shorts and a t-shirt all the while hollering, "Hold on, be right there!", all this taking about 1.75 seconds. I opened the door, hair dripping, face a bit red and said, "I know, you're Bible students but, look, I'm in a hurry to get out of here."
They were too!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I just feel God is made more complex than intended. He is commonly referred to as He. I do believe in God. I do believe He is the only God. I do pray. I do read to my kids about God's teachings. I do not go to church at this time. I do believe in the Holy Trinity. I do believe in Catholic guilt
I understand thearguments about religion or organized religion and agendas. But the concept of God the direction you guys are going I don't understand. It's out of my league because I'm a believer. I don't sit around and think of ways He is not.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
My first thought was that there was no way a god as powerful as the Bible claims him to be could be so vain and needy.
Second thought was that no being of any decency would torture and burn people at all, let alone for inane reasons like making jokes.
The rest follows from there. I seriously doubt that you are literally unable to follow a conversation on the nature of God, it seems more likely to me that you are uncomfortable engaging that line of thought.
I used to believe as well. I was taught at a very young age about God. I bought the story. Why wouldn't I? I hated the idea of dying and if an afterlife was promised... I was all in!
Problems arose for me when nobody could even remotely answer some logistical questions I had: where is God and where is Heaven were two natural ones.
When I began to detach, I experienced guilt and other emotions I couldn't quite explain, but the clouds began to clear. And as the clouds began to clear, I began to understand what religion had done to me.
The brain is a powerful thing. Anorexic girls can stare in the mirror and think they are disgustingly fat, yet everyone else sees skin and bones. The mind will believe what it wants to believe and young people are exceptionally impressionable. I was brainwashed into believing something that simply cannot exist.
It still lurks in me somewhat. There is a tinge of guilt creeping within me as I attempt to encourage you to question your faith. I consciously block it though- knowing at is the residual effect of the strong brainwashing effort that seized me when I was younger.
My my wish is for people to reconcile our fortunate existence with life and death on this planet. We will all come and go. We are all in this together. We need to try and treat everyone with that in mind. In my opinion, organized religions have had a negative effect on my wishes.
I don't care that people don't believe. That doesn't make me uncomfortable. I also don't mind others discussing He doesn't exist. Also doesn't make me uncomfortable.
I was not referring to this thread this discussion being out of my league - more those that mostly congregate here. You're all very experienced and educated and often I skim because there are so many words used I often can't translate.
I have not considered Him to be vain or needy. I will reflect on that.
As far as burning in any of the 10 levels of hell, there are only 2 unforgivable sins. And jokes certainly are not in that burning category.
Hell I don't know if I believe. I have a hard time processing Lucifer punishing anyone for being evil.
I do hear and agree with the organized and agenda religion comments. I want to learn about God and his work I don't want to be preached at or ya know in a cult.
The above shower story is hilarious!
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Could there be a God? I guess, but it definitely is not the being that is portrayed in most religions. In such a vast universe humans are merely an invisible spec in terms of time and space.
Scientists estimate there are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe, some with suns that have died billions of years ago and god is watching everything we do? God is going to invite all the living beings he has ever created up to the afterlife (if you're good enough) when he already granted us a life in the universe? I just don't buy it.
There are a lot of more intelligent people in this world compared to me, that can explain why God doesn't exist. However, I chose to believe. I know it's not the hip thing to do around these boards but I am not ashamed of my faith! I believe in the Holy Trinity and I believe in Pearl Jam! At least we all have that in common! Much love to you all!
- Mitch Hedberg