The Concept of God

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

I think there are things that specifically tell Christians that they really don't have to go to Church, and maybe even shouldn't go:

Matthew 6:5 

“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward"

Acts 17:24 

"The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man"

Matthew 6:6 

"But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."


...... On the other hand, there are other passages that say Christians should gather together so they can encourage each other and that they shouldn't isolate themselves because it is essentially selfish and self-serving. As is standard for the Bible, the issue is wrought with contradiction, which renders the whole thing moot.

like a cow's opinion!

Gern Blansten

ponytd said:

Gern Blansten said:

ponytd said:

I believe and God and have grown up in the church. I went to a Church of Christ school and university. I've been to more Sunday schools, bible classes and chapels than I can count. Like many of you have said, growing up, I think I believed because I was told to or pushed into it. But over time, I've questioned my faith and I still believe in God, but not the same way I previously did.  I also agree with a lot of what you've said. I have some problems with organized religion. Like, why does this denomination believe in this, but this one over here doesn't. It doesn't make much sense, and you're right. It is like they're picking just what is convenient for them. And there are a lot of judgey people in the church. Trust me, Church of Christ as some of the most judgey there are. I think that's what started giving me the most problems with organized religion. I would sit in church and listen to them preach forgiveness and love one another, but then turn around and see them do the exact opposite. It just didn't sit right with me.

I don't go to church that much anymore. I was told growing up you had to go to church every Sunday, but if God is loving and forgiving, I don't think he's going to hold it against you because you didn't go church every single Sunday. I try to live my life by respecting others, helping those who need it and just being a good person. What I've come to believe over the years is that God wants us to try and be the best person we can be, not some mindless drone who just does whatever they're told. Maybe he does want that, I don't know, but I feel like man has perverted the image of God with all the denominations and rules that they've made up. I know the Bible is God's inspired word, but it was still written by man and who is to say man didn't change things?

I don't disagree.  I used to say the same thing....why is it necessary to dress up and go to church for an hour in order to guarantee a spot in heaven?  

There is some interesting info on how the bible was translated too.  I read "Losing Faith in Faith" by Dan Barker (former evangelist) and it opened my  mind to how we have changed the bible over time.  He went on a quest to determine if what he believed was true and ended up leaving the church and forming the Freedom from Religion Foundation.

Interesting, I may have to read that book to check it out.

https://www.amazon.com/Losing-Faith-Preacher-Atheist/dp/187773313X

It's a great book.  I don't think it will make you a non believer necessarily....it basically just describes his journey which, at the time I read it about 20 years ago, matched my journey.

Edit: To expand on my journey....I went to college determined to take some classes to help me decide whether there was a god or not (Astronomy, Philosophy, Anthropology, etc.) since I had so many doubts.  I read this book a few years after graduating from college.  It was, I believe, the first account that I had ever read from someone who was actually a minister/evangelist.  This guy (Barker) knows the bible front to back.  I think he still has the same command of scripture today that he did 30 years ago.  His knowledge of the bible actually guided his eventual disbelief because he saw all of the contradictions and errors in the text.

ponytd

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think there are things that specifically tell Christians that they really don't have to go to Church, and maybe even shouldn't go:

Matthew 6:5 

“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward"

Acts 17:24 

"The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man"

Matthew 6:6 

"But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."


...... On the other hand, there are other passages that say Christians should gather together so they can encourage each other and that they shouldn't isolate themselves because it is essentially selfish and self-serving. As is standard for the Bible, the issue is wrought with contradiction, which renders the whole thing moot.

like a cow's opinion!

You know, a cow's opinion. Like, it doesn't matter. It's moooooo

ponytd

Gern Blansten said:

ponytd said:

Gern Blansten said:

ponytd said:

I believe and God and have grown up in the church. I went to a Church of Christ school and university. I've been to more Sunday schools, bible classes and chapels than I can count. Like many of you have said, growing up, I think I believed because I was told to or pushed into it. But over time, I've questioned my faith and I still believe in God, but not the same way I previously did.  I also agree with a lot of what you've said. I have some problems with organized religion. Like, why does this denomination believe in this, but this one over here doesn't. It doesn't make much sense, and you're right. It is like they're picking just what is convenient for them. And there are a lot of judgey people in the church. Trust me, Church of Christ as some of the most judgey there are. I think that's what started giving me the most problems with organized religion. I would sit in church and listen to them preach forgiveness and love one another, but then turn around and see them do the exact opposite. It just didn't sit right with me.

I don't go to church that much anymore. I was told growing up you had to go to church every Sunday, but if God is loving and forgiving, I don't think he's going to hold it against you because you didn't go church every single Sunday. I try to live my life by respecting others, helping those who need it and just being a good person. What I've come to believe over the years is that God wants us to try and be the best person we can be, not some mindless drone who just does whatever they're told. Maybe he does want that, I don't know, but I feel like man has perverted the image of God with all the denominations and rules that they've made up. I know the Bible is God's inspired word, but it was still written by man and who is to say man didn't change things?

I don't disagree.  I used to say the same thing....why is it necessary to dress up and go to church for an hour in order to guarantee a spot in heaven?  

There is some interesting info on how the bible was translated too.  I read "Losing Faith in Faith" by Dan Barker (former evangelist) and it opened my  mind to how we have changed the bible over time.  He went on a quest to determine if what he believed was true and ended up leaving the church and forming the Freedom from Religion Foundation.

Interesting, I may have to read that book to check it out.

https://www.amazon.com/Losing-Faith-Preacher-Atheist/dp/187773313X

It's a great book.  I don't think it will make you a non believer necessarily....it basically just describes his journey which, at the time I read it about 20 years ago, matched my journey.

Edit: To expand on my journey....I went to college determined to take some classes to help me decide whether there was a god or not (Astronomy, Philosophy, Anthropology, etc.) since I had so many doubts.  I read this book a few years after graduating from college.  It was, I believe, the first account that I had ever read from someone who was actually a minister/evangelist.  This guy (Barker) knows the bible front to back.  I think he still has the same command of scripture today that he did 30 years ago.  His knowledge of the bible actually guided his eventual disbelief because he saw all of the contradictions and errors in the text.

Thanks. Yeah, I've noticed lots of contradictions in then Bible. But it was written by many different authors and thus lots of different viewpoints and contradictions.

THE LOOK

ponytd said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i always find it so ridiculous how religious groups think they need these grand castles to worship their god in, where the money could be obviously spent on things a little less, i don't know, modest?

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Most every church I know does do this to some extent. The church I went to when I was growing up would go downtown with a bus and pick up homeless people and bring them back to the church during the winter. We'd make them dinner and breakfast and set up cots for them to sleep in and we'd have a clothing drive beforehand to give them coats and new clothes. We'd also have fundraisers for families in need and participate in the meals on wheels program.

I know not every church does these types of things, and you're right, they should. One of the biggest things about being a Christian is giving back and looking out for your neighbor. Churches and it's members that don't help out, are pretty much just lip service "Christians"

Despite what you believe, you cannot deny the good that most Christian communities do for the less fortunate! Sure there are some that could do more but overall, I've seen first hand the good that a lot of these churches do in my city! I'm on board with the poster above my comment!

rgambs

THE LOOK said:

ponytd said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i always find it so ridiculous how religious groups think they need these grand castles to worship their god in, where the money could be obviously spent on things a little less, i don't know, modest?

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Most every church I know does do this to some extent. The church I went to when I was growing up would go downtown with a bus and pick up homeless people and bring them back to the church during the winter. We'd make them dinner and breakfast and set up cots for them to sleep in and we'd have a clothing drive beforehand to give them coats and new clothes. We'd also have fundraisers for families in need and participate in the meals on wheels program.

I know not every church does these types of things, and you're right, they should. One of the biggest things about being a Christian is giving back and looking out for your neighbor. Churches and it's members that don't help out, are pretty much just lip service "Christians"

Despite what you believe, you cannot deny the good that most Christian communities do for the less fortunate! Sure there are some that could do more but overall, I've seen first hand the good that a lot of these churches do in my city! I'm on board with the poster above my comment!

It's always subordinated to the continuation and promotion of the church.
Long story short:
Old friend, now a pastor for UCC.  Very liberal and accepting, supposedly non dogmatic.  All about community and good works.  On the surface, everything that non-religious people would like to see.  Beneath the surface...
Teaches and learns only from the Bible, despite admitting it's atrocious abominations.  Fights to preserve the church first, builds community second.
Gets new post in another town, abandons all his "flock" and cuts ties to them entirely so that they will accept their new pastor as their new direct line to God.  Church first, community second in the most liberal, community oriented church in America.

brianlux

THE LOOK said:

ponytd said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i always find it so ridiculous how religious groups think they need these grand castles to worship their god in, where the money could be obviously spent on things a little less, i don't know, modest?

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Most every church I know does do this to some extent. The church I went to when I was growing up would go downtown with a bus and pick up homeless people and bring them back to the church during the winter. We'd make them dinner and breakfast and set up cots for them to sleep in and we'd have a clothing drive beforehand to give them coats and new clothes. We'd also have fundraisers for families in need and participate in the meals on wheels program.

I know not every church does these types of things, and you're right, they should. One of the biggest things about being a Christian is giving back and looking out for your neighbor. Churches and it's members that don't help out, are pretty much just lip service "Christians"

Despite what you believe, you cannot deny the good that most Christian communities do for the less fortunate! Sure there are some that could do more but overall, I've seen first hand the good that a lot of these churches do in my city! I'm on board with the poster above my comment!

I wouldn't say most because I don't know about most.  Some, yes.  I'm thinking of a local church, Green Valley, that goes out of it's way to help people.  And the one my wife's aunt took her to in Texas a while back.  Very conservative town, very conservative Baptist church in Texas and she told me they are doing huge things  to help immigrants who have been targeted by racists.  Who'd of thought, right?

But for every good, community minded church there's one that is in it for the money.  Many of the mega-churches, etc. 

Like anything, judge each on it's own merits.

My church does wonders for it's community.  It gives us grace, beauty, eases the mind of troubles and gives us peace.  Here's a photo of it:

Smellyman

And you have bible thumping Republicans who could give two sh!ts about the poor or sick.

Yet that bible thumping effectively fools their constituency who in fact are the ones getting screwed.

Attaway77

Smellyman said:

And you have bible thumping Republicans who could give two sh!ts about the poor or sick.

Yet that bible thumping effectively fools their constituency who in fact are the ones getting screwed.

Whew.... At least we know now where all the Democrats stand. Why do they all swear on the Bible when sworn in? And once again politics invades a religion conversation. Right on Smellyman, your scent is welcomed.

Smellyman

Attaway77 said:

Smellyman said:

And you have bible thumping Republicans who could give two sh!ts about the poor or sick.

Yet that bible thumping effectively fools their constituency who in fact are the ones getting screwed.

Whew.... At least we know now where all the Democrats stand. Why do they all swear on the Bible when sworn in? And once again politics invades a religion conversation. Right on Smellyman, your scent is welcomed.

Nearly all Republicans use it for their platform and to get elected.  Most Democrats do not and do not use it to govern.

Democrats care about social services the poor and the sick.

These are truths, feel free to debate them.

And yes politics and religion are mixed when one side wants to govern through it.  Trump even fooled his base


Even though there is that pesky separation of church and state.

Attaway77

Smellyman said:

Attaway77 said:

Smellyman said:

And you have bible thumping Republicans who could give two sh!ts about the poor or sick.

Yet that bible thumping effectively fools their constituency who in fact are the ones getting screwed.

Whew.... At least we know now where all the Democrats stand. Why do they all swear on the Bible when sworn in? And once again politics invades a religion conversation. Right on Smellyman, your scent is welcomed.

Democrats care about social services the poor and the sick.

These are truths, feel free to debate them.

Can't argue with that, they care a lot. Let's get back to the concept of God.....

amethgr8

I don't believe in God as a being, although I did for years.  I was raised pretty Catholic, Methodist when I went to my dads in the south, bible study and church attendance as an adolescent.  I did not do either after becoming a teenager and then adult.  I went through a stage in my early 20's where I only believed in what could actually be proved to me in the physical or scientific sense.

Now, 20 years later I believe in the Force of Nature, a common thread of energy that runs through everything and reacts to actions Of the Earth.  I believe the force of nature is the same now as it has been for thousands of years, it was there when the earth started, or before that the universe, or whatever and maybe we cannot define it or know from whence it came, I have decided I don't need to know.  I live with it, part of it is in me and all around me and I try to connect to it, other humans, animals, and follow it's lead instead of trying to control or define it.

I am trying to develop other senses available to me.

I don't know, it's a very complex subject, but thats kind of my two cents on my actual belief in a God.

cheers!

amy

hedonist

amethgr8 said:

I don't believe in God as a being, although I did for years.  I was raised pretty Catholic, Methodist when I went to my dads in the south, bible study and church attendance as an adolescent.  I did not do either after becoming a teenager and then adult.  I went through a stage in my early 20's where I only believed in what could actually be proved to me in the physical or scientific sense.

Now, 20 years later I believe in the Force of Nature, a common thread of energy that runs through everything and reacts to actions Of the Earth.  I believe the force of nature is the same now as it has been for thousands of years, it was there when the earth started, or before that the universe, or whatever and maybe we cannot define it or know from whence it came, I have decided I don't need to know.  I live with it, part of it is in me and all around me and I try to connect to it, other humans, animals, and follow it's lead instead of trying to control or define it.

I am trying to develop other senses available to me.

I don't know, it's a very complex subject, but thats kind of my two cents on my actual belief in a God.

cheers!

amy

I love this - the bolded part.  I so relate to it and thank you for saying what I at times having difficulty doing myself.

Cheers back!

THE LOOK

brianlux said:

THE LOOK said:

ponytd said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i always find it so ridiculous how religious groups think they need these grand castles to worship their god in, where the money could be obviously spent on things a little less, i don't know, modest?

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Most every church I know does do this to some extent. The church I went to when I was growing up would go downtown with a bus and pick up homeless people and bring them back to the church during the winter. We'd make them dinner and breakfast and set up cots for them to sleep in and we'd have a clothing drive beforehand to give them coats and new clothes. We'd also have fundraisers for families in need and participate in the meals on wheels program.

I know not every church does these types of things, and you're right, they should. One of the biggest things about being a Christian is giving back and looking out for your neighbor. Churches and it's members that don't help out, are pretty much just lip service "Christians"

Despite what you believe, you cannot deny the good that most Christian communities do for the less fortunate! Sure there are some that could do more but overall, I've seen first hand the good that a lot of these churches do in my city! I'm on board with the poster above my comment!

I wouldn't say most because I don't know about most.  Some, yes.  I'm thinking of a local church, Green Valley, that goes out of it's way to help people.  And the one my wife's aunt took her to in Texas a while back.  Very conservative town, very conservative Baptist church in Texas and she told me they are doing huge things  to help immigrants who have been targeted by racists.  Who'd of thought, right?

But for every good, community minded church there's one that is in it for the money.  Many of the mega-churches, etc. 

Like anything, judge each on it's own merits.

My church does wonders for it's community.  It gives us grace, beauty, eases the mind of troubles and gives us peace.  Here's a photo of it:

I like your church too! Beautiful!!!

erocshifty

THE LOOK said:

brianlux said:

THE LOOK said:

ponytd said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i always find it so ridiculous how religious groups think they need these grand castles to worship their god in, where the money could be obviously spent on things a little less, i don't know, modest?

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Most every church I know does do this to some extent. The church I went to when I was growing up would go downtown with a bus and pick up homeless people and bring them back to the church during the winter. We'd make them dinner and breakfast and set up cots for them to sleep in and we'd have a clothing drive beforehand to give them coats and new clothes. We'd also have fundraisers for families in need and participate in the meals on wheels program.

I know not every church does these types of things, and you're right, they should. One of the biggest things about being a Christian is giving back and looking out for your neighbor. Churches and it's members that don't help out, are pretty much just lip service "Christians"

Despite what you believe, you cannot deny the good that most Christian communities do for the less fortunate! Sure there are some that could do more but overall, I've seen first hand the good that a lot of these churches do in my city! I'm on board with the poster above my comment!

I wouldn't say most because I don't know about most.  Some, yes.  I'm thinking of a local church, Green Valley, that goes out of it's way to help people.  And the one my wife's aunt took her to in Texas a while back.  Very conservative town, very conservative Baptist church in Texas and she told me they are doing huge things  to help immigrants who have been targeted by racists.  Who'd of thought, right?

But for every good, community minded church there's one that is in it for the money.  Many of the mega-churches, etc. 

Like anything, judge each on it's own merits.

My church does wonders for it's community.  It gives us grace, beauty, eases the mind of troubles and gives us peace.  Here's a photo of it:

I like your church too! Beautiful!!!

Looks kinda like mine.

Attaway77

oftenreading said:

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Just so we're clear on this, It's only those who call themselves Christians right? Anybody else who doesn't consider themselves any religion is free to spend their money or contribute to what they choose/decide/want/etc.. I just want to make sure. Been around this life for awhile and I've seen plenty of non Christians/believers/atheist/etc throw their money away for pleasure when it could have benefited the above mentioned. 

oftenreading

Attaway77 said:

oftenreading said:

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Just so we're clear on this, It's only those who call themselves Christians right? Anybody else who doesn't consider themselves any religion is free to spend their money or contribute to what they choose/decide/want/etc.. I just want to make sure. Been around this life for awhile and I've seen plenty of non Christians/believers/atheist/etc throw their money away for pleasure when it could have benefited the above mentioned. 

Christian supposedly follow the gospel of Christ, and if you consider yourself a Christian (I mean that broadly, not you in particular, Attaway), then it stands to reason that one should pay special attention to multiple times Christ asked his followers to do what I mentioned above. 

Of course, I would also ask and expect non-Christians to do this, too, as decent human beings. It's just that it's not part of doctrine. 

Attaway77

oftenreading said:

Attaway77 said:

oftenreading said:

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Just so we're clear on this, It's only those who call themselves Christians right? Anybody else who doesn't consider themselves any religion is free to spend their money or contribute to what they choose/decide/want/etc.. I just want to make sure. Been around this life for awhile and I've seen plenty of non Christians/believers/atheist/etc throw their money away for pleasure when it could have benefited the above mentioned. 

Christian supposedly follow the gospel of Christ, and if you consider yourself a Christian (I mean that broadly, not you in particular, Attaway), then it stands to reason that one should pay special attention to multiple times Christ asked his followers to do what I mentioned above. 

Of course, I would also ask and expect non-Christians to do this, too, as decent human beings. It's just that it's not part of doctrine. 

All good my friend... This kind of discussion is good. 

Smellyman

Attaway77 said:

oftenreading said:

Attaway77 said:

oftenreading said:

" To the Greater Glory of God", they say.

To me, the greater glory would be to use that money to feed the hungry and house the homeless and clothe those who can't afford warm clothing. Seems to me that that is what the putative Christ would have preferred, so those who call themselves Christians might want to as well.

Just so we're clear on this, It's only those who call themselves Christians right? Anybody else who doesn't consider themselves any religion is free to spend their money or contribute to what they choose/decide/want/etc.. I just want to make sure. Been around this life for awhile and I've seen plenty of non Christians/believers/atheist/etc throw their money away for pleasure when it could have benefited the above mentioned. 

Christian supposedly follow the gospel of Christ, and if you consider yourself a Christian (I mean that broadly, not you in particular, Attaway), then it stands to reason that one should pay special attention to multiple times Christ asked his followers to do what I mentioned above. 

Of course, I would also ask and expect non-Christians to do this, too, as decent human beings. It's just that it's not part of doctrine. 

All good my friend... This kind of discussion is good. 

Please stick to concept of god

brianlux

My latest theory goes like this:

We know Jesus was a smoker:


Johnny say, "I'll go along with that:


And as we all know, God is Dog spelled backwards.
Now look at Smellyman's avatar. 
Ah ha! 
Smoking Jesus-> Son of God -> Smoking Dog ->
Smellyman... God?
GOD!