someone defended Bill Cosby? Wtf. I knew about his ways in the early 90s
No, I did not defend Bill Cosby. I have no idea where he got that from. I think when that story broke I said that I needed more evidence before I knew how I felt about it one way or the other. It kind of pisses me off that he posted that I actually defended him rather than the idea of innocent until proven guilty (which he was). As for the sexual harassment comment... I read a bunch of thing back when that whole debacle came about for DL, and the discussion was indeed his bahviour at work towards women and how that put them at a disadvantage, depending on how they responded to his own sexually harass-y behaviour. Nobody took him to court for it, but to me it seemed like workplace sexual harassment issue. Kind of asshole-like behviour at the very least, IMO.
To my knowledge there was no one accusing Letterman of sexual harassment(?) but only some people in the media having "what if" discussions about him having affairs with people working for him could mean sexual harassments occurred.
But please provide a source for something tangible regarding sexual harassment having occurred. Maybe he's scum.
But I doubt it. That's more of a Fox News kind of thing. Haha.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I don't think people realize how much Dave changed late night comedy. None of the talk show comedians would be successful doing what they are doing without Dave changing the game.
I think for me, I just don't care enough about late night talk shows for that to have an impact on me.
Fair enough.
But it wasn't just the late night format. He did give a platform for more off beat comedy. The existence of irreverent comedy today, which is the lifeblood of the best comedy, owes a debt of gratitude to Dave who brought it mainstream.
I guess. Hey, I have absolutely NO problem with other people being Dave Letterman fans. I am also thinking it's kind of strange to see people calling him a "hero", like someone else mentioned, but okay. I had no idea people felt such feelings about the man, lol. I figured they just thought he was a good late night talk show host who they grew up watching, and it stopped there, haha. I mean, if the guy has done some truly amazing and admirable things, like worked his butt off to change the lives of the disadvantaged, or seriously advocated for very important causes or something, I'd better understand where everyone is coming from. I didn't know someone could become a hero just by being somewhat clever on a major TV network and by contributing to the late night talk show format. But okay, if people feel like that makes him a hero, fine by me. I think there are a couple of other late night talk show hosts who have contributed more, like Stewart and Colbert and even Jimmy Kimmel. They seem to have brought something more unique to the genre than Letterman, IMHO.
Do you really know enough about the talk show scene and history to feel confident in saying that Kimmel has brought something more unique than Letterman?
I think I know about as much about it as anyone else who has been paying attention for the past 25 years or so. I watched Letterman regularly for a good 20 years of my life and have also watched Kimmel and a bunch of other late night talk shows, and watch the news, documentaries, and read stuff and all that normal shit we do to feel like we know something about this kind of thing, so I guess I know enough to form an opinion. I mean, I suppose I know as much about it as the people claiming that Letterman is the champion groundbreaker.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
someone defended Bill Cosby? Wtf. I knew about his ways in the early 90s
No, I did not defend Bill Cosby. I have no idea where he got that from. I think when that story broke I said that I needed more evidence before I knew how I felt about it one way or the other. It kind of pisses me off that he posted that I actually defended him rather than the idea of innocent until proven guilty (which he was). As for the sexual harassment comment... I read a bunch of thing back when that whole debacle came about for DL, and the discussion was indeed his bahviour at work towards women and how that put them at a disadvantage, depending on how they responded to his own sexually harass-y behaviour. Nobody took him to court for it, but to me it seemed like workplace sexual harassment issue. Kind of asshole-like behviour at the very least, IMO.
To my knowledge there was no one accusing Letterman of sexual harassment(?) but only some people in the media having "what if" discussions about him having affairs with people working for him could mean sexual harassments occurred.
But please provide a source for something tangible regarding sexual harassment having occurred. Maybe he's scum.
But I doubt it. That's more of a Fox News kind of thing. Haha.
I already answered what you are asking I think?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
someone defended Bill Cosby? Wtf. I knew about his ways in the early 90s
No, I did not defend Bill Cosby. I have no idea where he got that from. I think when that story broke I said that I needed more evidence before I knew how I felt about it one way or the other. It kind of pisses me off that he posted that I actually defended him rather than the idea of innocent until proven guilty (which he was). As for the sexual harassment comment... I read a bunch of thing back when that whole debacle came about for DL, and the discussion was indeed his bahviour at work towards women and how that put them at a disadvantage, depending on how they responded to his own sexually harass-y behaviour. Nobody took him to court for it, but to me it seemed like workplace sexual harassment issue. Kind of asshole-like behviour at the very least, IMO.
To my knowledge there was no one accusing Letterman of sexual harassment(?) but only some people in the media having "what if" discussions about him having affairs with people working for him could mean sexual harassments occurred.
But please provide a source for something tangible regarding sexual harassment having occurred. Maybe he's scum.
But I doubt it. That's more of a Fox News kind of thing. Haha.
I already answered what you are asking I think?
I can't believe you're still defending Bill Cosby.
someone defended Bill Cosby? Wtf. I knew about his ways in the early 90s
No, I did not defend Bill Cosby. I have no idea where he got that from. I think when that story broke I said that I needed more evidence before I knew how I felt about it one way or the other. It kind of pisses me off that he posted that I actually defended him rather than the idea of innocent until proven guilty (which he was). As for the sexual harassment comment... I read a bunch of thing back when that whole debacle came about for DL, and the discussion was indeed his bahviour at work towards women and how that put them at a disadvantage, depending on how they responded to his own sexually harass-y behaviour. Nobody took him to court for it, but to me it seemed like workplace sexual harassment issue. Kind of asshole-like behviour at the very least, IMO.
To my knowledge there was no one accusing Letterman of sexual harassment(?) but only some people in the media having "what if" discussions about him having affairs with people working for him could mean sexual harassments occurred.
But please provide a source for something tangible regarding sexual harassment having occurred. Maybe he's scum.
But I doubt it. That's more of a Fox News kind of thing. Haha.
I already answered what you are asking I think?
I can't believe you're still defending Bill Cosby.
Jeez!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think people realize how much Dave changed late night comedy. None of the talk show comedians would be successful doing what they are doing without Dave changing the game.
I think for me, I just don't care enough about late night talk shows for that to have an impact on me.
Fair enough.
But it wasn't just the late night format. He did give a platform for more off beat comedy. The existence of irreverent comedy today, which is the lifeblood of the best comedy, owes a debt of gratitude to Dave who brought it mainstream.
I guess. Hey, I have absolutely NO problem with other people being Dave Letterman fans. I am also thinking it's kind of strange to see people calling him a "hero", like someone else mentioned, but okay. I had no idea people felt such feelings about the man, lol. I figured they just thought he was a good late night talk show host who they grew up watching, and it stopped there, haha. I mean, if the guy has done some truly amazing and admirable things, like worked his butt off to change the lives of the disadvantaged, or seriously advocated for very important causes or something, I'd better understand where everyone is coming from. I didn't know someone could become a hero just by being somewhat clever on a major TV network and by contributing to the late night talk show format. But okay, if people feel like that makes him a hero, fine by me. I think there are a couple of other late night talk show hosts who have contributed more, like Stewart and Colbert and even Jimmy Kimmel. They seem to have brought something more unique to the genre than Letterman, IMHO.
Do you really know enough about the talk show scene and history to feel confident in saying that Kimmel has brought something more unique than Letterman?
I think I know about as much about it as anyone else who has been paying attention for the past 25 years or so. I watched Letterman regularly for a good 20 years of my life and have also watched Kimmel and a bunch of other late night talk shows, and watch the news, documentaries, and read stuff and all that normal shit we do to feel like we know something about this kind of thing, so I guess I know enough to form an opinion. I mean, I suppose I know as much about it as the people claiming that Letterman is the champion groundbreaker.
Jimmy Kimmel was heavily influenced by Letterman. As was Conan. I believe Stewart as well.
I don't think people realize how much Dave changed late night comedy. None of the talk show comedians would be successful doing what they are doing without Dave changing the game.
I think for me, I just don't care enough about late night talk shows for that to have an impact on me.
Fair enough.
But it wasn't just the late night format. He did give a platform for more off beat comedy. The existence of irreverent comedy today, which is the lifeblood of the best comedy, owes a debt of gratitude to Dave who brought it mainstream.
I guess. Hey, I have absolutely NO problem with other people being Dave Letterman fans. I am also thinking it's kind of strange to see people calling him a "hero", like someone else mentioned, but okay. I had no idea people felt such feelings about the man, lol. I figured they just thought he was a good late night talk show host who they grew up watching, and it stopped there, haha. I mean, if the guy has done some truly amazing and admirable things, like worked his butt off to change the lives of the disadvantaged, or seriously advocated for very important causes or something, I'd better understand where everyone is coming from. I didn't know someone could become a hero just by being somewhat clever on a major TV network and by contributing to the late night talk show format. But okay, if people feel like that makes him a hero, fine by me. I think there are a couple of other late night talk show hosts who have contributed more, like Stewart and Colbert and even Jimmy Kimmel. They seem to have brought something more unique to the genre than Letterman, IMHO.
Kimmel would disagree with you.
I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
I don't think people realize how much Dave changed late night comedy. None of the talk show comedians would be successful doing what they are doing without Dave changing the game.
I think for me, I just don't care enough about late night talk shows for that to have an impact on me.
Fair enough.
But it wasn't just the late night format. He did give a platform for more off beat comedy. The existence of irreverent comedy today, which is the lifeblood of the best comedy, owes a debt of gratitude to Dave who brought it mainstream.
I guess. Hey, I have absolutely NO problem with other people being Dave Letterman fans. I am also thinking it's kind of strange to see people calling him a "hero", like someone else mentioned, but okay. I had no idea people felt such feelings about the man, lol. I figured they just thought he was a good late night talk show host who they grew up watching, and it stopped there, haha. I mean, if the guy has done some truly amazing and admirable things, like worked his butt off to change the lives of the disadvantaged, or seriously advocated for very important causes or something, I'd better understand where everyone is coming from. I didn't know someone could become a hero just by being somewhat clever on a major TV network and by contributing to the late night talk show format. But okay, if people feel like that makes him a hero, fine by me. I think there are a couple of other late night talk show hosts who have contributed more, like Stewart and Colbert and even Jimmy Kimmel. They seem to have brought something more unique to the genre than Letterman, IMHO.
Do you really know enough about the talk show scene and history to feel confident in saying that Kimmel has brought something more unique than Letterman?
I think I know about as much about it as anyone else who has been paying attention for the past 25 years or so. I watched Letterman regularly for a good 20 years of my life and have also watched Kimmel and a bunch of other late night talk shows, and watch the news, documentaries, and read stuff and all that normal shit we do to feel like we know something about this kind of thing, so I guess I know enough to form an opinion. I mean, I suppose I know as much about it as the people claiming that Letterman is the champion groundbreaker.
Jimmy Kimmel was heavily influenced by Letterman. As was Conan. I believe Stewart as well.
I don't think people realize how much Dave changed late night comedy. None of the talk show comedians would be successful doing what they are doing without Dave changing the game.
I think for me, I just don't care enough about late night talk shows for that to have an impact on me.
Fair enough.
But it wasn't just the late night format. He did give a platform for more off beat comedy. The existence of irreverent comedy today, which is the lifeblood of the best comedy, owes a debt of gratitude to Dave who brought it mainstream.
I guess. Hey, I have absolutely NO problem with other people being Dave Letterman fans. I am also thinking it's kind of strange to see people calling him a "hero", like someone else mentioned, but okay. I had no idea people felt such feelings about the man, lol. I figured they just thought he was a good late night talk show host who they grew up watching, and it stopped there, haha. I mean, if the guy has done some truly amazing and admirable things, like worked his butt off to change the lives of the disadvantaged, or seriously advocated for very important causes or something, I'd better understand where everyone is coming from. I didn't know someone could become a hero just by being somewhat clever on a major TV network and by contributing to the late night talk show format. But okay, if people feel like that makes him a hero, fine by me. I think there are a couple of other late night talk show hosts who have contributed more, like Stewart and Colbert and even Jimmy Kimmel. They seem to have brought something more unique to the genre than Letterman, IMHO.
Do you really know enough about the talk show scene and history to feel confident in saying that Kimmel has brought something more unique than Letterman?
I think I know about as much about it as anyone else who has been paying attention for the past 25 years or so. I watched Letterman regularly for a good 20 years of my life and have also watched Kimmel and a bunch of other late night talk shows, and watch the news, documentaries, and read stuff and all that normal shit we do to feel like we know something about this kind of thing, so I guess I know enough to form an opinion. I mean, I suppose I know as much about it as the people claiming that Letterman is the champion groundbreaker.
Jimmy Kimmel was heavily influenced by Letterman. As was Conan. I believe Stewart as well.
Of course - Letterman paved their way; I'm not saying he didn't do anything for the format. But I don't think that means they haven't contributed more unique ideas themselves after learning from DL. Being influenced by someone doesn't mean that person who was influenced will never be as good as or better than the person who influenced them. Actually, isn't the hope that they will be even better and contribute even more? I think they succeeded at that.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think people realize how much Dave changed late night comedy. None of the talk show comedians would be successful doing what they are doing without Dave changing the game.
I think for me, I just don't care enough about late night talk shows for that to have an impact on me.
Fair enough.
But it wasn't just the late night format. He did give a platform for more off beat comedy. The existence of irreverent comedy today, which is the lifeblood of the best comedy, owes a debt of gratitude to Dave who brought it mainstream.
I guess. Hey, I have absolutely NO problem with other people being Dave Letterman fans. I am also thinking it's kind of strange to see people calling him a "hero", like someone else mentioned, but okay. I had no idea people felt such feelings about the man, lol. I figured they just thought he was a good late night talk show host who they grew up watching, and it stopped there, haha. I mean, if the guy has done some truly amazing and admirable things, like worked his butt off to change the lives of the disadvantaged, or seriously advocated for very important causes or something, I'd better understand where everyone is coming from. I didn't know someone could become a hero just by being somewhat clever on a major TV network and by contributing to the late night talk show format. But okay, if people feel like that makes him a hero, fine by me. I think there are a couple of other late night talk show hosts who have contributed more, like Stewart and Colbert and even Jimmy Kimmel. They seem to have brought something more unique to the genre than Letterman, IMHO.
Kimmel would disagree with you.
That seems meaningless. Few people would admit that they are better than their mentor, assuming they have an ounce of humility in their being.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think people realize how much Dave changed late night comedy. None of the talk show comedians would be successful doing what they are doing without Dave changing the game.
I think for me, I just don't care enough about late night talk shows for that to have an impact on me.
Fair enough.
But it wasn't just the late night format. He did give a platform for more off beat comedy. The existence of irreverent comedy today, which is the lifeblood of the best comedy, owes a debt of gratitude to Dave who brought it mainstream.
I guess. Hey, I have absolutely NO problem with other people being Dave Letterman fans. I am also thinking it's kind of strange to see people calling him a "hero", like someone else mentioned, but okay. I had no idea people felt such feelings about the man, lol. I figured they just thought he was a good late night talk show host who they grew up watching, and it stopped there, haha. I mean, if the guy has done some truly amazing and admirable things, like worked his butt off to change the lives of the disadvantaged, or seriously advocated for very important causes or something, I'd better understand where everyone is coming from. I didn't know someone could become a hero just by being somewhat clever on a major TV network and by contributing to the late night talk show format. But okay, if people feel like that makes him a hero, fine by me. I think there are a couple of other late night talk show hosts who have contributed more, like Stewart and Colbert and even Jimmy Kimmel. They seem to have brought something more unique to the genre than Letterman, IMHO.
Do you really know enough about the talk show scene and history to feel confident in saying that Kimmel has brought something more unique than Letterman?
I think I know about as much about it as anyone else who has been paying attention for the past 25 years or so. I watched Letterman regularly for a good 20 years of my life and have also watched Kimmel and a bunch of other late night talk shows, and watch the news, documentaries, and read stuff and all that normal shit we do to feel like we know something about this kind of thing, so I guess I know enough to form an opinion. I mean, I suppose I know as much about it as the people claiming that Letterman is the champion groundbreaker.
Jimmy Kimmel was heavily influenced by Letterman. As was Conan. I believe Stewart as well.
Of course - Letterman paved their way; I'm not saying he didn't do anything for the format. But I don't think that means they haven't contributed more unique ideas themselves after learning from DL. Being influenced by someone doesn't mean that person who was influenced will never be as good as or better than the person who influenced them. Actually, isn't the hope that they will be even better and contribute even more? I think they succeeded at that.
It's not about who is better. But you made it seem that Letterman didn't do anything in terms of late night. And people throw the term hero around loosely.
Well, it can be about who;s better, right? Why not? I didn't say that Letterman didn't do anything. If it seemed like that was what I was getting at, that isn't what I was saying. I do, however, think he's being overrated in this thread (obviously).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well, it can be about who;s better, right? Why not? I didn't say that Letterman didn't do anything. If it seemed like that was what I was getting at, that isn't what I was saying. I do, however, think he's being overrated in this thread (obviously).
i bet neil's decision to suddenly not go was a tough one for him to make. he has serious love for our band. i wish him a speedy recovery and long may he run! hopefully his speech gets made and read by dave cause let's face it dave is 1/2 of what neil is or less. imnsho
I'm ok with Dave. One of the things I've always loved about Ed is how sincere and heartfelt he comes across when taking about bands that he enjoys and has been influenced by, whether in interviews onstage or RRHOF speeches.
Neil and Dave are both guys with huge egos. I don't mean that disrespectfully. I'm a big fan of both; have spent hundreds of hours being entertained by both, and get especially sentimental now looking back at Dave. Really feel his show, on his good nights, was the best at what it did. Neither one of these two guys is PJ super-fan. Dave probably falls closer out of the two, and most likely will give a better speech. Yes Neil brings it hard onstage, but honestly, when he plays with PJ, he tends to dominate. At best it becomes the Ed & Neil Show. We lose out on a whole lot of Mike especially, Stone too. I think most of us are fine with getting a different song than RIFTW, Especially If It's a PJ Song. I know I'm excited about that.
I liked Letterman as a late night host, but I think it's mainly because he filled the void after Carson left and he's nostalgia for me growing up. Not to mention he had one of the few places you could see PJ perform new music live without buying a ticket. As much as I liked his late night show, I also got annoyed by some of the humor and repetitiveness. His interviews were usually pretty good, which is rare in late night these days, but he never translated his success very well outside the late night show. Who could forget his Oscars hosting disaster? I just hope he doesn't insert the wacky stupidity in to the induction speech and make it a groan fest.
I think what we will most miss in the speech by Letterman is the more defined personal relationship the entire band had with Neil. That guy knew everyone in the band and has for years. I just don't feel like Letterman has that type of relationship with anyone beyond Eddie (and even that is probably not that in depth) and it's more of a fan perspective than a fan and colleague appreciation and love we would have got from Neil.
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But please provide a source for something tangible regarding sexual harassment having occurred. Maybe he's scum.
But I doubt it. That's more of a Fox News kind of thing. Haha.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
Jeez!
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
It's not much, but it's good to hear it's "nothing major"
pitchfork.com/news/72679-neil-young-illness-nothing-major-representative-says/
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
hopefully his speech gets made and read by dave cause let's face it dave is 1/2 of what neil is or less. imnsho
I think what we will most miss in the speech by Letterman is the more defined personal relationship the entire band had with Neil. That guy knew everyone in the band and has for years. I just don't feel like Letterman has that type of relationship with anyone beyond Eddie (and even that is probably not that in depth) and it's more of a fan perspective than a fan and colleague appreciation and love we would have got from Neil.