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Donald Trump

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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,372
    Part Deux


    The Pennsylvania example

    Most Republican voters now say they feel the election was stolen, according to surveys. That gives Trump leverage with Republican candidates who want to win primaries this year.

    In Pennsylvania, numerous Republicans are running for governor and senator. They've made lots of moves to prove their fealty to the former president. One candidate for governor is Bill McSwain, who happened to be a U.S. attorney during the 2020 election.

    Former U.S. Attorney Bill McSwain, a Republican running for Pennsylvania governor, has appealed for Trump's support.

    Matt Rourke/AP

    "Bill McSwain left office without announcing any investigations or outcome of investigations for the 2020 election in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania," said Chris Brennan of the Philadelphia Inquirer, who has covered his story.

    But then McSwain prepared to run for office. Last summer, he produced a letter for Trump, appealing for his support — and implying that he was blocked somehow from investigating unspecified claims of fraud.

    "But it doesn't actually say that," Brennan said. "So even he, when you carefully read it, does not claim that he was blocked from investigating fraud."

    Trump nonetheless made the letter public and gave his own interpretation at multiple rallies.

    "We have a U.S. attorney in Philadelphia that says he wasn't allowed to go and check," Trump said at a rally in Florida.

    Grayson has watched similar stories unfold in multiple states.

    "I think he's been really active in moving 2022 candidates toward his point of view," Grayson said. "The way I look at it is, I can't imagine that the party on its own would be pushing this narrative if he weren't pushing it."

    Repeatedly in the interview, Trump presses his party to adhere to his point of view and false claims, and he adapts his arguments to account for more and more proof that he lost. That's a typical strategy among purveyors of disinformation and misinformation.

    Trump did correctly note in the interview that he received more votes than any sitting president ever. But his broader point that that is somehow evidence that he won in 2020 is nonsensical, said Patrick, seeing as the election saw record turnout.

    "Each election compares those candidates facing off in that election — it doesn't matter how the numbers compare to the last election," Patrick said. "It doesn't matter how many points a team scored the last game or how many times Alabama has won the national championship. What matters is who has the most points or votes at the end of the game."

    For the record, the University of Georgia won the college football national championship Monday, defeating Alabama, 33-18. And Biden got 7 million more votes than Trump in the popular vote in 2020 and got 306 electoral votes to Trump's 232.

    Repeated losses in the independent judiciary

    Trump doesn't have a case of widespread fraud.

    He and his lawyers tried to prove that he did — and they failed. Many judges, including some appointed by him, ruled that way in dozens of cases.

    Here's a section of the interview on this:

    NPR'S STEVE INSKEEP: Let me read you some short quotes. The first is by one of the judges, one of the 10 judges you appointed, who ruled on this. And there were many judges, but 10 who you appointed. Brett Ludwig, U.S. District Court in Wisconsin, who was nominated by you in 2020. He's on the bench and he says, quote, "This court allowed the plaintiff the chance to make his case, and he has lost on the merits."

    Another quote, Kory Langhofer, your own campaign attorney in Arizona, Nov. 12, 2020, quote, "We are not alleging fraud in this lawsuit. We are not alleging anyone stealing the election." And also Rudy Giuliani, your lawyer, Nov. 18, 2020, in Pennsylvania, quote, "This is not a fraud case." Your own lawyers had no evidence of fraud. They said in court they had no evidence of fraud. And the judges ruled against you every time on the merits.

    TRUMP: It was too early to ask for fraud and to talk about fraud. Rudy said that, because of the fact it was very early with the — because that was obviously at a very, very — that was a long time ago. The things that have found out have more than bore out what people thought and what people felt and what people found.

    When you look at Langhofer, I disagree with him as an attorney. I did not think he was a good attorney to hire. I don't know what his game is, but I will just say this: You look at the findings. You look at the number of votes. Go into Detroit and just ask yourself, is it true that there are more votes than there are voters? Look at Pennsylvania. Look at Philadelphia. Is it true that there were far more votes than there were voters?

    INSKEEP: It is not true that there were far more votes than voters. There was an early count. I've noticed you've talked about this in rallies and you've said, reportedly, this is true. I think even you know that that was an early report that was corrected later.

    TRUMP: Well, you take a look at it. You take a look at Detroit. In fact, they even had a hard time getting people to sign off on it because it was so out of balance. They called it out of balance. So you take a look at it. You know the real truth, Steve, and this election was a rigged election.

    When pressed, it was excuse after excuse — it was "too early" to claim fraud, his attorney was no good, things just seem suspicious.

    But it all comes back to the same place: He has no evidence of widespread fraud that caused him to lose the election.

    The tone of the interview changed. Trump then hurried off the phone as he was starting to be asked about the attack on the Capitol, inspired by election lies.

    A judge is considering whether Trump can be held liable for his actions in court.

    If he can be, then Trump or his lawyers would someday have to answer the questions he didn't answer before he cut short his conversation with NPR.

    Audio for this story was produced and edited by Taylor Haney, Lilly Quiroz, Amra Pasic and H.J. Mai.

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    DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,413
    This is the correct response. Also trying to appear reasonable to undecided and squash the anyone but Drumpf voters.
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    Part 1 of 2

    He is a petty, grievance filled, small man. But for anyone who thinks we need to ignore him, you really need to read this whole article and listen to the whole interview. He's really exposed here as a fraud who still, after over a year, cannot articulate how the election was stolen from him despite convincing 50 million people or so that it was. Unfortunately the people in his cult will never read or listen to this and, even if they did, their minds likely will not be changed. But any rational human being should be able to see right through him.

    I think this is also a good case study as to why he would be a great candidate if you want the dems to stay in power. Maybe the reason his approval numbers have grown over the last year is that the folks not in his cult have tried to ignore him. And it has been easier with him off twitter and only doing easy interviews with Candace Owens, Newsmax and Sean Hannity. But this is like the first real interview he's done since that Chris Wallace disaster (man, woman, camera, etc etc etc). So if he does run, the media absolutely needs to hold him accountable exactly the way this guy does as Trump simply cannot handle real honest questions. 

    https://www.npr.org/2022/01/12/1072204478/donald-trump-npr-interview-presidential-election-lies-vaccines

    Pressed on his election lies, former President Trump cuts NPR interview short

    Some Republican leaders are trying to move on from former President Donald Trump's failed attempt to overturn the 2020 election that he lost.

    "While there were some irregularities, there were none of the irregularities which would have risen to the point where they would have changed the vote outcome in a single state," Sen. Mike Rounds, R-S.D., said Sunday on ABC's This Week. "The election was fair, as fair as we have seen. We simply did not win the election, as Republicans, for the presidency. And if we simply look back and tell our people don't vote because there's cheating going on, then we're going to put ourselves in a huge disadvantage."

    But Trump — who has endorsed dozens of candidates for the 2022 midterm elections and still holds by far the widest influence within the GOP — is trying hard not to let them move on.

    "No, I think it's an advantage, because otherwise they're going to do it again in '22 and '24, and Rounds is wrong on that. Totally wrong," Trump told NPR in an interview Tuesday, referring to his false and debunked claims that the 2020 election was stolen.

    Article continues after sponsor message

    The interview was six years in the making. Trump and his team have repeatedly declined interviews with NPR until Tuesday, when he called in from his home in Florida. It was scheduled for 15 minutes, but lasted just over nine.

    After being pressed about his repeated lies about the 2020 presidential election, Trump abruptly ended the interview.

    Read NPRs full interview with former President Donald Trump


    Trump's mixed messages on getting vaccinated

    The interview began with the pandemic and vaccinations.

    Trump, whose administration oversaw the development of the COVID-19 vaccines, recommended that people get vaccinated but said he's firmly against mandating that they do so.

    "[T]he mandate is really hurting our country," Trump claimed, adding, "A lot of Americans aren't standing for it, and it's hurting our country."

    He continued, "The vaccines, I recommend taking them, but I think that has to be an individual choice. I mean, it's got to be individual, but I recommend taking them."

    The opposition to mandates is popular with Republicans, and the Supreme Court is currently weighing the Biden administration's vaccine-or-test mandate for large employers. But his comments come during the record omicron surge, as the unvaccinated are far more likely to be hospitalized or die from the disease, and as Republicans are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

    Epidemiologists and health experts warn that if more people don't get vaccinated and the virus continues to morph, it could prolong the pandemic — and delay any sense of getting back to normal.

    The former president said he wants to see therapeutics, used to treat the virus after someone is infected, produced and distributed more widely.


    Trump's firm grip on the Republican Party, but tenuous grasp on reality

    Trump is not just any former president.

    Even many members of his own party have blamed him for inciting the deadly Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, but since then Trump has only tightened his grip on the GOP.

    He remains one of the most popular figures in the Republican Party and is considered the front-runner for the 2024 presidential nomination, if he decides to run again.

    When he ran in 2016, Trump was seen as having a shoestring campaign, fighting an uphill battle with few allies among Republican elected leaders.

    Today, it's a different story. Trump's political organization has become a juggernaut. Not only are most Republican elected leaders falling in line, but he has also installed allies controlling many levers of political power across the country. In state after state, Trump allies are running local Republican parties, serving as state representatives and in charge of political action committees.

    It's a political army ready to be mobilized at his beck and call. What he says — what his message is to them — matters because they follow.

    Imagine another American Civil War but this time in every state


    To secure his power, he will do whatever he can to cast aside those who don't show fealty. That includes threats, bullying and intimidation, like badgering and name-calling.

    Referring to South Dakota's Rounds in a statement after he appeared on ABC, for example, Trump said Rounds "just went woke," called him a "jerk," "weak," "ineffective" and questioned whether he was "crazy or just stupid."

    He also called him a RINO, an acronym for an insult some conservatives reserve for more moderate Republicans they disagree with — Republicans in name only.

    In the interview with NPR, he partially blamed Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell for Rounds and other senators feeling as though they can speak out and say — correctly — that Trump lost the election.

    "Because Mitch McConnell is a loser," Trump said.

    Trump has called McConnell worse — and all because the Kentucky Republican has crossed Trump, blaming him for the insurrection on Jan. 6 and saying President Biden won, even if McConnell doesn't do so forcefully every day.

    It's par for the course for Trump, who has demanded unflinching loyalty — and who chafes at truths he disagrees with, especially about him losing.

    Trump has blasted Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, all because the Kentucky Republican has crossed the former president.

    Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

    Won't accept losing an election he lost

    Many Republicans prefer to focus on Biden as this year's congressional elections approach. Trump is pressing candidates in a different direction.

    Josh Mandel, a pro-Trump Republican from Ohio, launched his campaign for U.S. Senate just weeks after Trump supporters attacked the U.S. Capitol last year.

    "I think over time we're gonna see studies come out that [show] evidence of widespread fraud," Mandel, a former state treasurer who is angling for Trump's endorsement, told WKYC-TV.

    In the year since Mandel made that prediction, the opposite has happened.

    Even more evidence shows a free and fair election.

    In one disputed state, Arizona, Trump allies held a widely criticized review of millions of ballots, but even Doug Logan, who led Cyber Ninjas, the firm that ran the review, couldn't find much.

    "The ballots that were provided to us to count in the Coliseum very accurately correlate with the official canvass numbers," Logan said.

    As he does with any information or person he doesn't like or disagrees with, Trump dismissed the findings in the NPR interview.

    "Lying or delusional"

    In the interview, Trump repeated a number of false claims about voting systems in the U.S., including that the discredited GOP-led ballot review in Arizona showed evidence of malfeasance — despite the fact that it also reaffirmed Biden's victory.

    Republican officials in Maricopa County, however, debunked the characterizations of Trump and his allies in a 93-page rebuttal issued last week.

    "The people who have spent the last year proclaiming our free and fair elections are rigged are lying or delusional," said Bill Gates, the GOP chair of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors.

    Asked why even Republicans in the state accepted the findings, Trump reverted to an old attack.

    "Because they're RINOs," he said, "and frankly, a lot of people are questioning that."

    Congress may change this arcane law to avoid another Jan 6

    Tammy Patrick, a former Maricopa County election official and now an elections expert at Democracy Fund, was presented by NPR with a number of Trump's claims about voting and noted that in the 14 months since the election, no proof of any of his claims has come to light.

    "It hasn't been presented in any of the courts. It hasn't been surfaced in any official election audits, not by the Department of Justice, not by the FBI," Patrick said. "Allegations of fraud hinge upon being able to produce actual instances of fraud — not merely thoughts, feelings or beliefs about it."

    To Republicans who know how elections work, the election has always been obvious.

    "The facts show that it was President Biden who won fair and square," said Trey Grayson, who used to run elections as the Republican secretary of state in Kentucky. "It wasn't rigged."

    He's thinking about those Republican T-shirts that said, "F*** your feelings."

    "And here we are looking at the 2020 election," Grayson said, "and we are the ones who are basing it on feelings, not on facts, not on the law."


    There’s that Big D word again, tsk, tsk.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,079
    for the record, georgia won......

    hilarious they felt the need to point that out.
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,372
    mickeyrat said:
    for the record, georgia won......

    hilarious they felt the need to point that out.
    Some solid NPR shade right there. 
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    Feelings, nothing more than feelings........................
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    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,390
    Inskeep did a good job and Trump sounds like a delusional moron.
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,372
    mfc2006 said:
    Inskeep did a good job and Trump sounds like a delusional moron.
    "Because Mitch Mcconnell is a loser" was a highlight of mine from that interview.

    Idiocracy was way ahead of it's time. 
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,044
    edited January 2022
    DewieCox said:
    This is the correct response. Also trying to appear reasonable to undecided and squash the anyone but Drumpf voters.
    But he's going to piss off the anti-vax voters...which is his base

    Hopefully he runs as an independent and fucks up the GOP....that would be beautiful
    Post edited by Gern Blansten on
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,931
    DewieCox said:
    This is the correct response. Also trying to appear reasonable to undecided and squash the anyone but Drumpf voters.
    But he's going to piss off the anti-vax voters...which is his base

    Hopefully he runs as an independent and fucks up the GOP....that would be beautiful
    that's not enough to get them to not vote for him, and he knows that. but it might be enough to turn some people off desantis for not being a "stand up guy". 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,196
    as long as trump is owning the libs in other ways he will win the nomination.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,931
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    Flight Risk out NOW!

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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,196
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    if trump runs and wins the nomination it is good for dems. trump is going to have to run on and defend his record. not just say how terrible hillary is.

    if someone like desantis wins the nom it is more problematic for dems. he is trump but 1000% smarter and will surround himself with smarter people than don jr, ivanka, and rudy.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,142
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    It's bad for everyone.  And with the cult of personality he would have a chance to win for sure.  Can you imagine Trump with another term after sitting out 4 years.  Dude will be insufferable and more damaging than previously.
    hippiemom = goodness
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,196
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    It's bad for everyone.  And with the cult of personality he would have a chance to win for sure.  Can you imagine Trump with another term after sitting out 4 years.  Dude will be insufferable and more damaging than previously.
    honestly though, trump is not exactly the picture of health. he is sedentary and lazy, is obese, and has a terrible diet. I give him 50/50 odds of being healthy enough to complete a 2nd term.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,776
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    It's bad for everyone.  And with the cult of personality he would have a chance to win for sure.  Can you imagine Trump with another term after sitting out 4 years.  Dude will be insufferable and more damaging than previously.
    I'm thinking his sole focus would be revenge and payback.
    Feel well soon, cincy.
    Falling down,...not staying down
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,142
    Kat said:
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    It's bad for everyone.  And with the cult of personality he would have a chance to win for sure.  Can you imagine Trump with another term after sitting out 4 years.  Dude will be insufferable and more damaging than previously.
    I'm thinking his sole focus would be revenge and payback.
    Feel well soon, cincy.
    That is my fear.

    And thank you.
    hippiemom = goodness
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,044
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    It's bad for everyone.  And with the cult of personality he would have a chance to win for sure.  Can you imagine Trump with another term after sitting out 4 years.  Dude will be insufferable and more damaging than previously.
    honestly though, trump is not exactly the picture of health. he is sedentary and lazy, is obese, and has a terrible diet. I give him 50/50 odds of being healthy enough to complete a 2nd term.
    It's so hard to say. He didn't expect to win in 2016 and probably doesn't expect to win 2024 but he just might if nominated.

    The primary will be critical to see how the establishment GOP is going to handle tRump. Honestly....why isn't Pence or Desantis making a bigger push for 2024 now? Pence is terrified of tRUmp and Desantis likely is too. Any GOP that suggests they might run is by default challenging tRUmp or at least that is how tRump will look at it.

    He will start tearing apart anyone who wants to give it a shot.  It's going to be very interesting.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,723
    I agree with Cincy that it's bad for everyone.  But at to whether it's good or bad for Ds, who the hell knows at this point.  You can't predict anything considering how irrational people have down themselves to be.  It really comes down to Tucker.  If he turns on Trump,  so does the base. 
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    ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,015
    edited January 2022

    The hella illegal "alternate" slates (certificates of ascertainment) submitted to the fucking National Archives will sink this puke.  All with the same text formatting, and pseudo-legalese.   


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/rachel-maddow-unearths-five-fake-state-documents-declaring-trump-victory-in-2020-election

     

    I’m not an attorney, but it seems to me these two statutes were broken.

    Fraudulent voting: 52 U.S.C. § 20511(2)(B),

    Mail and Wire Fraud: 18 U.S.C. §§ 1341 and 1343

    The only two beneficiaries of these actions are Donald Trump and Mike Pence.  Trizzie knew about and greenlit ALL that SHIT.






    Post edited by ikiT on
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,196
    Kat said:
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    It's bad for everyone.  And with the cult of personality he would have a chance to win for sure.  Can you imagine Trump with another term after sitting out 4 years.  Dude will be insufferable and more damaging than previously.
    I'm thinking his sole focus would be revenge and payback.
    Feel well soon, cincy.
    i agree. and probably just not on the dems. but revenge against the non loyal gop, and maybe even revenge on other countries.

    i'm sorry, cincy. i just realized i did not wish you a speedy recovery. hope you feel better soon.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 7,894
    honest question: do you think Trump's nomination would be good for dems or bad? I honestly have no idea at this point. (I suppose it also depends who the dems run-I just can't see it being biden)
    It’s terrible for everyone. He needs to stay out of the way. He had his chance, he could have won re- election if he stopped pandering to the dumbest, lowest type of republican out there. He absolutely blew it the last year of his presidency, luckily. 
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,196
    can you imagine the republican primary debates? i bet most of them will end up canceled. they cannot be allowed to proceed and make trump look inferior to the other candidates.

    he did terrible in 2016, but he scored points by making fun of the people he was running against. i imagine that is going to be his strategy this time. that, and a healthy dose of "imagine how beautiful everything would be if the election had not been stolen from me, and the american people."
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,931
    k, let me re-word the question: would it give Dem's a better chance of winning if Trump won the nom as opposed to say, Desantis winning the nom?
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,832
    k, let me re-word the question: would it give Dem's a better chance of winning if Trump won the nom as opposed to say, Desantis winning the nom?
    I don't even know if it matters at this point. Right now, there's a huge movement rooted entirely in "Libs/Dems are the enemy" without an ounce of real meaning or substance. DeSantis? Trump? Another Trump? Some other MAGA? The question is whether enough people will vote D to combat the huge number of people who believe with all their hearts that Democrats are the Enemy of America.

    I'd say the Dems have slightly more of a chance to beat MAGA than some middle-of-the-road GOPer like Evan McMullen but today's GOP is nominating MAGA.  

    One caveat...the best possibility for the Dems is if DeSantis gets the nomination in a hotly contested race vs. Trump and Trump focuses his revenge on the GOP by running third. Personally, I think the GOP is smart enough to make sure that doesn't happen; i.e., if Trump wants the nomination, he'll get it.

    It's probably more of a function of who runs for the Democrats.
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    k, let me re-word the question: would it give Dem's a better chance of winning if Trump won the nom as opposed to say, Desantis winning the nom?
    Depends who the Dems run.  Biden again or Hillary and I think Trump would win.  Not sure who could beat him.  Things are bad for the average swing voter/working class that voted for Biden at the risk of Trump winning term 2.  A lot of those voters are thinking about how good things were for the first three years of Trump, no supply chain issues, low inflation etc.  Now we have high inflation, supply chain issues, a new variant and though all the blame can't be heaped on Joe he is at the helm.  Trump coming back and saying remember how good it was before the democrats took over could be a good platform in 24 almost as good as vote for any democrat to keep Trump out of office was in '20.
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,196
    if trump runs again the dems have an easier path.

    trump lost the popular vote twice. last time by 7 million votes. with the way he has carried on and refused to accept that he lost fair and square he has alienated a lot of swing voters. his actions on 1/6 have also alienated many americans. 

    i predict the only way trump has a chance is if states change voter laws to make it more difficult to vote, and dems run a candidate that keeps loyal dem voters from coming out to vote.

    trump had his chance. he lost the 2nd time around. he was impeached twice. he encouraged an insurrection. he will not win again if he runs.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,196
    these days more people turn out to vote against someone than to vote for someone.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,372
    k, let me re-word the question: would it give Dem's a better chance of winning if Trump won the nom as opposed to say, Desantis winning the nom?
    I think it would absolutely give the dems a better chance no matter who is on the ticket. Once Trump's in the race and running again, the whole country will be forced to remember how terrible his presidency was (right now-other than the Trump cult, I think most people have enjoyed not seeing him on social media and tv all the time) and how badly they handled and politicized the pandemic from the start. That's why I said earlier it would be good for them if he runs. I would be much more concerned with someone like DeSantis. I've been saying that for months now. 

    But I also agree it would be devastating for humanity as a whole to simply have the possibility of him winning again. And of course the discourse would be even more disgusting and vengeful than 20202 and 2016.....however this shit will motivate more people to vote against him than for him just like the other two times he ran. This is why the new bogus law republicans have passed in so many states need to be neutered by congress. 

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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,832
    static111 said:
    k, let me re-word the question: would it give Dem's a better chance of winning if Trump won the nom as opposed to say, Desantis winning the nom?
    Depends who the Dems run.  Biden again or Hillary and I think Trump would win.  Not sure who could beat him.  Things are bad for the average swing voter/working class that voted for Biden at the risk of Trump winning term 2.  A lot of those voters are thinking about how good things were for the first three years of Trump, no supply chain issues, low inflation etc.  Now we have high inflation, supply chain issues, a new variant and though all the blame can't be heaped on Joe he is at the helm.  Trump coming back and saying remember how good it was before the democrats took over could be a good platform in 24 almost as good as vote for any democrat to keep Trump out of office was in '20.
    That's a huge problem for the party at the presidential level. They really don't have a deep bench. After Obama ran out of eligibility, there really was nobody to assume the role as Energetic, Likeable Face of the Party. And all that's happened since is that the same old people have gotten older. There were good things to say about certain candidates like Klobuchar, Warren, Pete, Booker, and a few others. But none of them captured a crowd like Obama did. And, for that matter, like Clinton did when he hit the national scene (for as detestable as he turned out, he was refreshing when the GOP was super old in 1992). For me personally, Warren was some of that; not very young, of course, but energetic. But I recognized quickly, she didn't have a true shot.

    Democrats tend to win on a personality like Obama's; someone that people gravitate towards (and that causes those people to gravitate towards the polls).  Biden wasn't really that guy; he just wasn't Trump...but will that work again? I would not bank on it...it would be far better for the next Obama to come along but if that happens, it's going to be out of nowhere.

    Now Trump is obviously a detestable human being. But that doesn't offset the Dems' problem because he's a cult leader. He doesn't have to be young, vibrant, attractive, articulate, or intelligent. He just needs to say "it's everyone against us." And this probably carries on to whoever the nominee is.
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