I don't think it's any surprise to anyone who actually knows the history of the band somewhat, that they don't like Dave based on the type of person he is and the way he acted towards the members of the band.
I don't want to get all political here or crush the dreams of any conservatives out there, but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them. Read PJ20. Research what Glorified G was written about. He was a conservative minded dude from Texas and he didn't fit in with a bunch of liberal dudes from Seattle.
I'm sure every conservative that reads this will get bent out of shape, but the band is extremely liberal.
I'm not saying he won't be at the rock hall because of his views, but his views and actions back in the mid 90's caused enough friction between him and the band that they booted him and haven't included him in shit like they have like Jack Irons or collaborated with him or spoke fondly of him. I think if you look in the archives, the only time they've mentioned him prominently over the past 20 years is to say Angel was written by him when it was played this summer.
Look, I enjoyed Dave's powerful style drumming and wish they still had that backbone (even though I love Matt Cameron), but let's face it, the band doesn't care for him.
Agreed..... i think if you're expecting DA to be there, you haven't been paying attention over the last 22 years.
SHOULD he be there? We could debate this non-stop, but the fact is, very few people, if anyone at all outside of those 5 guys know the whole story behind his departure from the band, so all we can do is speculate.
Considering the band has persevered for 20+ years since kicking him out, I think they made the right decision.
Mustaine and Metallica had a far more acrimonious split than PJ and Dave A did, and Mustaine was there. And Newsted freaking performed with them after a pretty nasty split with them as well (Lars making fun of bass players who play with picks, etc). It wouldn't be weird at all for them to invite all their past drummers. The band just played Angel over the summer, mentioned Dave, and said he "wishes him well".
I don't think anyone is "expecting" Dave to be there, but it wouldn't be odd if he was.
it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.
I don't think it's any surprise to anyone who actually knows the history of the band somewhat, that they don't like Dave based on the type of person he is and the way he acted towards the members of the band.
I don't want to get all political here or crush the dreams of any conservatives out there, but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them. Read PJ20. Research what Glorified G was written about. He was a conservative minded dude from Texas and he didn't fit in with a bunch of liberal dudes from Seattle.
I'm sure every conservative that reads this will get bent out of shape, but the band is extremely liberal.
I'm not saying he won't be at the rock hall because of his views, but his views and actions back in the mid 90's caused enough friction between him and the band that they booted him and haven't included him in shit like they have like Jack Irons or collaborated with him or spoke fondly of him. I think if you look in the archives, the only time they've mentioned him prominently over the past 20 years is to say Angel was written by him when it was played this summer.
Look, I enjoyed Dave's powerful style drumming and wish they still had that backbone (even though I love Matt Cameron), but let's face it, the band doesn't care for him.
Agreed..... i think if you're expecting DA to be there, you haven't been paying attention over the last 22 years.
SHOULD he be there? We could debate this non-stop, but the fact is, very few people, if anyone at all outside of those 5 guys know the whole story behind his departure from the band, so all we can do is speculate.
Considering the band has persevered for 20+ years since kicking him out, I think they made the right decision.
Mustaine and Metallica had a far more acrimonious split than PJ and Dave A did, and Mustaine was there. And Newsted freaking performed with them after a pretty nasty split with them as well (Lars making fun of bass players who play with picks, etc). It wouldn't be weird at all for them to invite all their past drummers. The band just played Angel over the summer, mentioned Dave, and said he "wishes him well".
I don't think anyone is "expecting" Dave to be there, but it wouldn't be odd if he was.
it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.
My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.
I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.
I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
if Krusen is inducted since he is a 'founding member', then why was Chad Channing excluded when Nirvana was inducted?
Hopefully PJ will be gracious and mention the other drummers not included.
Great point about Chad Canning, but the RRHOF has always made 'curious' decisions. The inclusion of Krusen over DA or JI doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either, but whatever.
I'll be shocked if no one gives a shout out to Dave & Jack. I would expect at least a couple of the guys to mention & thank them.
Surely a mention. Probably by Mike.
Yeah just mention the Drummers who aren't up on stage maybe.
for him to be sitting in the crowd? CJ Ramone was. Chad Channing was. Dave Mustaine was.
So? I'm just commenting on Dave. I think it would odd especially considering his response to the whole Hall of Fame thing. If you don't think it would be odd, then cool.
Jack Irons is responsible for this band getting together & keeping it together a few years later for No Code & Yield,
...speaking of romanticising.
Well, Jack Irons gave the demo tape to EV, so that's a fact, I'm not romanticizing the past. If not for him, EV never gets the demos tape.
As far as him saving the band, don't take my word for it:
"The band’s plan to record on the road—Chicago, New Orleans, Seattle, Atlanta—while still stringing together Ticketmaster-less shows only stretched the frayed bonds of communication further. But this time Irons was on hand to hold the center together. “Everybody was on their best musical behavior around him,” producer Brendan O’Brien admitted to Spin. McCready called him a “big spiritual influence—if not the biggest.”
Irons wasn’t just massaging bruised egos. His loose, tribal drumming style was creating an entirely new terrain for the rest of the band to stretch out on. “We realized we had a chance to experiment,” Vedder told Spin. But what was happening in the studio was more akin to an outright reinvention."
Gossard almost quit after Vitaolgy, Ament almost quit during the onset of the No Code sessions - multiple members of the band credit JI with keeping them together.
So how am I romanticizing his contribution exactly?
No response, Spiritual Chaos?
Sure. After I've finished work.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
for him to be sitting in the crowd? CJ Ramone was. Chad Channing was. Dave Mustaine was.
So? I'm just commenting on Dave. I think it would odd especially considering his response to the whole Hall of Fame thing. If you don't think it would be odd, then cool.
It would definitely be worth watching just to see it lol
it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.
My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.
I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.
I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.
well, the only role you stated about jack was the spiritual one, which I don't think qualifies as a consideration. Anyway, we might be talking apples and oranges here.
I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.
it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.
My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.
I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.
I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.
well, the only role you stated about jack was the spiritual one, which I don't think qualifies as a consideration. Anyway, we might be talking apples and oranges here.
I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.
And he toured Ten from when it was nothing to when it/they took over the world.
for him to be sitting in the crowd? CJ Ramone was. Chad Channing was. Dave Mustaine was.
So? I'm just commenting on Dave. I think it would odd especially considering his response to the whole Hall of Fame thing. If you don't think it would be odd, then cool.
what's odd is how it seems I'm not supposed to reply to a comment I disagree with.
I was merely stating my opinion backed with context. Not trying to be argumentative. I was just confirming if you thought it would be odd for him to be inducted, or to be in the crowd, and if the latter, asking why that would be odd.
it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.
My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.
I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.
I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.
well, the only role you stated about jack was the spiritual one, which I don't think qualifies as a consideration. Anyway, we might be talking apples and oranges here.
I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.
I also quoted Brendan O'Brien as saying the band was barely communicating at the time, but seemed to act professional around JI - I don't think that quote should be overlooked or dismissed.
IDK.... read the article I linked if you get the chance. That, and other articles I read not too long ago paint a picture of a band on the verge of imploding, and it seems like JI brought them back together (Jeff didn't even know the band had started sessions on NC, it sound's like a pretty dark time for them - I'll see if I can't dig up the other articles I recall reading a little later)
As someone else mentioned, I feel like VS & Vitalogy were going to happen regardless of whatever drummer they found. After reading the articles I did, it seemed like NC & Yield never would have happened had JI not come along.
Regarding their meteoric rise to fame during DA's tenure - I think that had as much if not more to do with the whole grunge / alternative movement of the time as it did whomever was behind the kit. I feel like it would have happened regardless of who played drums at the time, that's my $0.02.
who cares if individual band memebers dont like him personally or disagree with him politically, its about showing respect and appreciation for the BAND and the MUSIC they made together. he contributed alot to the band and their sound during their most important years. he deserves recognition for that. pearl jam are stand up guys, i fully expect them to do the right thing.
There are 5 topics on the first page alone about drummers getting in the hall. Five!! 1) You all care too much 2) You have short attention spans, too (seriously, 5 threads?)
I really couldn't care less if Dave A is included... I guess I care a little more about Jack, but meh, whatever. Seems to me that the Hall of Fame has rules, and they are following the rules. Good enough for me, and PJ should respect the rules. I assume that rule is to prevent a dozen people from one band being inducted, even if half of them barely did anything over the years. Makes sense. I can't fucking believe anyone is suggesting that PJ boycott the HoF for the sake of Dave A, lmao.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think it's any surprise to anyone who actually knows the history of the band somewhat, that they don't like Dave based on the type of person he is and the way he acted towards the members of the band.
I don't want to get all political here or crush the dreams of any conservatives out there, but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them.
I was waiting for this. LOL. when Ed inducted the Ramones, Joey fucking said "god bless george bush" with Ed standing right beside him. you don't get much more conservative than that.
Big difference, Joey was an idol/icon to him. Dave was some guy who started off as a fill in for drummer and ended up staying for 2 more albums.
and I quote:
"..but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them".
Yes, doesn't 'care MUCH'. If you want to say a statement is a blanket statement and covers all instances, then we aren't going to agree on anything.
Ok, you have Joey Ramone to throw out there. Everyone is aware of that. What else can you come up with?
nothing. I don't know any of their friends. My point is I think it would be weird for anyone, musician or not, to surround themselves with only others who share the same particular political leanings.
I agree 100% with you on that one. I just know he rubbed them the wrong way, partly because of his views and that's well documented. I myself am Liberal and surround myself with all different view points.
I have never had the impression that the band had issues with Dave simply because of his politics. Seems to me they had problems with his personality more than anything else. When you like someone, their politics don't matter much. But when you don't like someone and can't get along with them, their politics that you don't like are just another nail in the coffin.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Why would any of you want Dave there when it could potentially make things awkward and ruin one of the biggest moments for the band? It's pretty obvious they don't like each other.
I really couldn't care less if Dave A is included... I guess I care a little more about Jack, but meh, whatever. Seems to me that the Hall of Fame has rules, and they are following the rules. Good enough for me, and PJ should respect the rules. I assume that rule is to prevent a dozen people from one band being inducted, even if half of them barely did anything over the years. Makes sense. I can't fucking believe anyone is suggesting that PJ boycott the HoF for the sake of Dave A, lmao.
yes boycott for Dave A! lol In fact, please please please don't try to get tickets for the ceremony. And obviously if your fan club number is below 139XXX you should quit the 10c immediately.
Comments
I don't think anyone is "expecting" Dave to be there, but it wouldn't be odd if he was.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.
I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
Will these four 52 year olds let this other 50 year old that they knew in their 20s jam with them???
Dave A loved the fans. He was like Mike x10. I have no clue if he was an awful coworker or not tho.
www.headstonesband.com
I met Krusen after a Unified Theory gig many years ago, and he was a really nice guy.
DA definitely seemed to enjoy being with the band, but I don't know what happened behind the scenes.
I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.
www.headstonesband.com
I was merely stating my opinion backed with context. Not trying to be argumentative. I was just confirming if you thought it would be odd for him to be inducted, or to be in the crowd, and if the latter, asking why that would be odd.
www.headstonesband.com
IDK.... read the article I linked if you get the chance. That, and other articles I read not too long ago paint a picture of a band on the verge of imploding, and it seems like JI brought them back together (Jeff didn't even know the band had started sessions on NC, it sound's like a pretty dark time for them - I'll see if I can't dig up the other articles I recall reading a little later)
As someone else mentioned, I feel like VS & Vitalogy were going to happen regardless of whatever drummer they found. After reading the articles I did, it seemed like NC & Yield never would have happened had JI not come along.
Regarding their meteoric rise to fame during DA's tenure - I think that had as much if not more to do with the whole grunge / alternative movement of the time as it did whomever was behind the kit. I feel like it would have happened regardless of who played drums at the time, that's my $0.02.
Peace.
1) You all care too much
2) You have short attention spans, too (seriously, 5 threads?)
I can't fucking believe anyone is suggesting that PJ boycott the HoF for the sake of Dave A, lmao.
In fact, please please please don't try to get tickets for the ceremony. And obviously if your fan club number is below 139XXX you should quit the 10c immediately.