I wonder if every member gets a trophy even if they are not at the ceremony? Josh got in with RHCP and he really wasn't even a member at that point. But on the hall of fame page, it has all the members listed.
Yeah the youngster RHCP guitarist is probably why this is a bigger issue already this year. That guy had done practically nothing with them yet got to be inducted. What a fucking joke.
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I wonder if every member gets a trophy even if they are not at the ceremony? Josh got in with RHCP and he really wasn't even a member at that point. But on the hall of fame page, it has all the members listed.
Yeah the youngster RHCP guitarist is probably why this is a bigger issue already this year. That guy had done practically nothing with them yet got to be inducted. What a fucking joke.
he's been in the band for 7 years. a lot longer than Irons was with RHCP.
it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.
My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.
I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.
I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.
well, the only role you stated about jack was the spiritual one, which I don't think qualifies as a consideration. Anyway, we might be talking apples and oranges here.
I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.
I also quoted Brendan O'Brien as saying the band was barely communicating at the time, but seemed to act professional around JI - I don't think that quote should be overlooked or dismissed.
IDK.... read the article I linked if you get the chance. That, and other articles I read not too long ago paint a picture of a band on the verge of imploding, and it seems like JI brought them back together (Jeff didn't even know the band had started sessions on NC, it sound's like a pretty dark time for them - I'll see if I can't dig up the other articles I recall reading a little later)
As someone else mentioned, I feel like VS & Vitalogy were going to happen regardless of whatever drummer they found. After reading the articles I did, it seemed like NC & Yield never would have happened had JI not come along.
Regarding their meteoric rise to fame during DA's tenure - I think that had as much if not more to do with the whole grunge / alternative movement of the time as it did whomever was behind the kit. I feel like it would have happened regardless of who played drums at the time, that's my $0.02.
Peace.
Are you saying all drummers are the same?
Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all.
DA was a great drummer and they made 2 incredible albums together. That was a very unique sound that PJ has never quite recaptured, and they would have sounded very different with any other drummer. I still think their 2nd & 3rd albums would have been pretty damn successful riding the coattails of 10, but for sure he was a great drummer for the band and did a lot for their sound. I don't think it's right to credit DA for their success in the early '90s (at least not exclusively), but that's just me.
I think JI is a great drummer too...... I don't think PJ writes Who You Are or In My Tree without him (two of my favorite PJ tunes). He may not have the chops that DA has, but I personally like what he brought to the table for their studio work. (never got to see either live, so I can't comment on that) I also think JI's drum work on Brain of J are as good as anything DA ever recorded with the band - that track alone would make me a huge Jack Irons fan, even if I had heard nothing else by the guy.
If anything, I think Krusen is the least dynamic of the 4 guys who played on their studio albums, but whatever, he was there at the start.
I think Dave A was always precise as fuck. He was always completely on and the cymbal work he did was always unique and nice.
However, the 2012 Go vs the 93 Go was less of a performance (for me) just watching those, not because of the tempo or drums but because 2012 was a much poorer vocal performance. I think 2008-2012 was Eddie's low point for vocals. Voice cracking etc (right at the beginning of the song, which I assume was the first song played that night). He recovered pretty well the last few years.
I am so sorry. Now on top of the who's the better drummer arguments, I threw in the Eddie vocal argument.
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I think, if anything else, the body of work is exactly what showcases what each drummer brought to the band at their particular time, which is why I think it's either Matt alone or all 4 of them. It's a chicken and the egg thing, when we talk about things like "had Dave still been in the band, would No Code and Yield have been No Code and Yield?". "Riot Act wouldn't have been Riot Act without Matt". Did they write with the drummer in mind, or did he just happen to compliment the style they were going for at the time? Either way, I think Dave and Jack made a pretty big impact. Look at Jack trying to play Go. I also can't imagine Dave being able to grasp the groove to play In My Tree. Matt is a great drummer, but the fucker needs to slow down live! LOL.
and there's no doubt that Eddie idolizes Matt. I don't think this will even be addressed by him at all. if it gets addressed, it will be on the podium, a flip comment by Mike or Stone. that's it.
I wonder if every member gets a trophy even if they are not at the ceremony? Josh got in with RHCP and he really wasn't even a member at that point. But on the hall of fame page, it has all the members listed.
Yeah the youngster RHCP guitarist is probably why this is a bigger issue already this year. That guy had done practically nothing with them yet got to be inducted. What a fucking joke.
he's been in the band for 7 years. a lot longer than Irons was with RHCP.
At the time they were inducted it had been like 2-3 years. Not counting when he was just a random back up touring musician to play under Frusciante. He was barely older than the actual band. Hardly what I would call "hall of fame" worthy.
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I would love to see Dave on the drums for one song at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame show. The fans would too.
But Matt is Pearl Jam. Love the band and how it's aged since 1994. Like a fine wine or a good 80's comedy - it's perfect.
Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. Sorry, Ted, that's a dumb question... skip that.
I wonder if every member gets a trophy even if they are not at the ceremony? Josh got in with RHCP and he really wasn't even a member at that point. But on the hall of fame page, it has all the members listed.
Yeah the youngster RHCP guitarist is probably why this is a bigger issue already this year. That guy had done practically nothing with them yet got to be inducted. What a fucking joke.
he's been in the band for 7 years. a lot longer than Irons was with RHCP.
At the time they were inducted it had been like 2-3 years. Not counting when he was just a random back up touring musician to play under Frusciante. He was barely older than the actual band. Hardly what I would call "hall of fame" worthy.
yeah, I get that. I just don't think you can induct a band without it's current members. it was odd to me that they did that with KISS.
Matt started on the 1998 American tour did he not? he has been in the band for 18 of the 25 years. i've seen 27 shows now and have never seen the band with another drummer. it should be Matt's stage alone when they perform. Honor the others maybe, but keep the others off that stage.
And this wouldn't even be an issue or a head scratcher if the RnR HoF instead just inducted the Band and didn't meddle with who and which lineup should be included. What does it even matter to them? What's the point.
"Pearl Jam released a great debut 25 years ago, you have had a place in the history of rock - congratulations PEARL JAM you are inducted. Welcome to the club." Pearl Jam - as in the band, and everything that has been the band from the debut and forward.
1. A band is chosen to be inducted.
2. The RnR HoF congratulations the band and asks them how many tickets the band needs.
3. The band decides on who and not to invite to join them - current and/or former members.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I'm a drummer so obviously I'm an expert. Dave A is by far the best studio drummer they have had. Can he do what Matt C does night in night out, I don't know I never saw Dave A live. Remember bands for the most part don't care about the creativity of a drummer they just want him to keep time because they can't. The drumming on VS. is incredible. I have always felt bad for him and remember when it was announced they replaced and couldn't understand why (now I know). He should be included in the HoF even though it doesn't mean shit!
yeah, I get that. I just don't think you can induct a band without it's current members. it was odd to me that they did that with KISS.
I would argue the opposite. Most bands aren't being inducted for what they're doing now. They're being inducted for what they did. What they did to change the industry and influence other musicians. What I'm seeing is quite often with older bands, is that members have left. They've been replaced with other musicians. They've stopped putting out albums (or at least putting out decent albums) and those new musicians are basically glorified touring musicians.
Obviously there's different circumstances for every band, but in the case of KISS. They're legacy was cemented before the new guys ever joined band. The best albums and the best tours were all before the new guys joined in. If the new guys got in it's because of what the other guys did years ago, not because of their contributions. Thus I agree with the RRoH on that one.
As the RRoH is all over the place when it comes to this, maybe they should create some consistency. Musician was part of their band for X amount of platinum selling albums (a rudimentary measure of popular/influence of albums).
This is generally why I think people like Dave A. deserve to be nominated, but new Kiss members don't.
Matt started on the 1998 American tour did he not? he has been in the band for 18 of the 25 years. i've seen 27 shows now and have never seen the band with another drummer. it should be Matt's stage alone when they perform. Honor the others maybe, but keep the others off that stage.
You are correct. Jack left after Australia/New Zealand spring 98.
I'm a drummer so obviously I'm an expert. Dave A is by far the best studio drummer they have had. Can he do what Matt C does night in night out, I don't know I never saw Dave A live. Remember bands for the most part don't care about the creativity of a drummer they just want him to keep time because they can't. The drumming on VS. is incredible. I have always felt bad for him and remember when it was announced they replaced and couldn't understand why (now I know). He should be included in the HoF even though it doesn't mean shit!
Man. I'm drummer for over 15 years and completely disagree. His drumming to me is so easy to replicate compared to Matt. Especially when Matt goes odd times. It's actually great to hear someone with an opposite opinion who also drums. There are so many moments during live bootlegs where it sounds like a song might fall apart and the heart , MFC, holds it together. The dude can play hundreds of songd at any given time. To me he is a machine! And I could of swore I read that Dave A had trouble keeping time in the studio. Especially while recording RVM. Am I remembering wrong? Anyway who cares lol. Our boys are nominated and that's all that matters to me. I guess it's silly arguing over someone who hasn't been in the picture for the last 20 years.
Matt started on the 1998 American tour did he not? he has been in the band for 18 of the 25 years. i've seen 27 shows now and have never seen the band with another drummer. it should be Matt's stage alone when they perform. Honor the others maybe, but keep the others off that stage.
I agree.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'm a drummer so obviously I'm an expert. Dave A is by far the best studio drummer they have had. Can he do what Matt C does night in night out, I don't know I never saw Dave A live. Remember bands for the most part don't care about the creativity of a drummer they just want him to keep time because they can't. The drumming on VS. is incredible. I have always felt bad for him and remember when it was announced they replaced and couldn't understand why (now I know). He should be included in the HoF even though it doesn't mean shit!
Man. I'm drummer for over 15 years and completely disagree. His drumming to me is so easy to replicate compared to Matt. Especially when Matt goes odd times. It's actually great to hear someone with an opposite opinion who also drums. There are so many moments during live bootlegs where it sounds like a song might fall apart and the heart , MFC, holds it together. The dude can play hundreds of songd at any given time. To me he is a machine! And I could of swore I read that Dave A had trouble keeping time in the studio. Especially while recording RVM. Am I remembering wrong? Anyway who cares lol. Our boys are nominated and that's all that matters to me. I guess it's silly arguing over someone who hasn't been in the picture for the last 20 years.
I agree with this, too.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
HOF did the right thing! Founding drummer and current drummer who has been with them for 18 years. The other alternative would have been a Spinal Tap situation (5 drummers standing there, come on).
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Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,453
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
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I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
I agree with you mostly. However I have to say I go to Tool shows to see Danny just as much as I go to hear the songs.
I'm a drummer so obviously I'm an expert. Dave A is by far the best studio drummer they have had. Can he do what Matt C does night in night out, I don't know I never saw Dave A live. Remember bands for the most part don't care about the creativity of a drummer they just want him to keep time because they can't. The drumming on VS. is incredible. I have always felt bad for him and remember when it was announced they replaced and couldn't understand why (now I know). He should be included in the HoF even though it doesn't mean shit!
Man. I'm drummer for over 15 years and completely disagree. His drumming to me is so easy to replicate compared to Matt. Especially when Matt goes odd times. It's actually great to hear someone with an opposite opinion who also drums. There are so many moments during live bootlegs where it sounds like a song might fall apart and the heart , MFC, holds it together. The dude can play hundreds of songd at any given time. To me he is a machine! And I could of swore I read that Dave A had trouble keeping time in the studio. Especially while recording RVM. Am I remembering wrong? Anyway who cares lol. Our boys are nominated and that's all that matters to me. I guess it's silly arguing over someone who hasn't been in the picture for the last 20 years.
Just to be clear I'm not arguing Matt vs Dave. All I can say is I've played my drums thousands of times to vs (I'm not exaggerating, it's been out for almost 25 years) and it just speaks to me. I love Matt C.
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
There is only one rock band ever that the drummer was irreplaceable.
I'm a drummer so obviously I'm an expert. Dave A is by far the best studio drummer they have had. Can he do what Matt C does night in night out, I don't know I never saw Dave A live. Remember bands for the most part don't care about the creativity of a drummer they just want him to keep time because they can't. The drumming on VS. is incredible. I have always felt bad for him and remember when it was announced they replaced and couldn't understand why (now I know). He should be included in the HoF even though it doesn't mean shit!
Man. I'm drummer for over 15 years and completely disagree. His drumming to me is so easy to replicate compared to Matt. Especially when Matt goes odd times. It's actually great to hear someone with an opposite opinion who also drums. There are so many moments during live bootlegs where it sounds like a song might fall apart and the heart , MFC, holds it together. The dude can play hundreds of songd at any given time. To me he is a machine! And I could of swore I read that Dave A had trouble keeping time in the studio. Especially while recording RVM. Am I remembering wrong? Anyway who cares lol. Our boys are nominated and that's all that matters to me. I guess it's silly arguing over someone who hasn't been in the picture for the last 20 years.
Just to be clear I'm not arguing Matt vs Dave. All I can say is I've played my drums thousands of times to vs (I'm not exaggerating, it's been out for almost 25 years) and it just speaks to me. I love Matt C.
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
I agree with you mostly. However I have to say I go to Tool shows to see Danny just as much as I go to hear the songs.
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
There is only one rock band ever that the drummer was irreplaceable.
I m not a drummer so I m wondering what your answer is.
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
There is only one rock band ever that the drummer was irreplaceable.
I m not a drummer so I m wondering what your answer is.
I'm not an expert on who's a better drummer or whatever. But I don't hear that much difference from Ten to Vitalogy in terms of drumming. You can hear it on No Code and you can hear it during the Cameron years. Due to unfortunate circumstances Dave Krusen couldn't continue with the band. But the majority of people who know of Pearl Jam would think of the songs Alive, Jeremy, Black, Why Go, and Even Flow. I know the re-recorded Even Flow with Dave A. And the Alive video has Matt Chamberlain. But Alive, Jeremy, Black, and Release on the radio is Dave K.
So it's not necessarily that Ten was their first record so Dave K has to be in. It's their most popular and well known I believe that the decision was based. If Ten didn't put then on the map. And it was Vs. Then Dave A. has a better chance. Also had there been videos for Daughter, Go, Rearviewmirror, Better Man, Immortality, Spin the Black Circle. I believe those albums would be up there with Ten in terms of sales.
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
There is only one rock band ever that the drummer was irreplaceable.
I m not a drummer so I m wondering what your answer is.
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
There is only one rock band ever that the drummer was irreplaceable.
I m not a drummer so I m wondering what your answer is.
I personally think Dave should be included but on the flip side I've never listened to a single band or performer because they had a great drummer. I think people here are overblowing his importance.
There is only one rock band ever that the drummer was irreplaceable.
I m not a drummer so I m wondering what your answer is.
Zeppelin
yup. still amazing they broke up after he died considering how crazy popular they still were. and they were still really young, i think robert plant was only 32 at the time. thats 1 of my fav things about led zep, they knew he was irreplaceable and they didnt wanna mess up the legacy of the band.
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DA was a great drummer and they made 2 incredible albums together. That was a very unique sound that PJ has never quite recaptured, and they would have sounded very different with any other drummer. I still think their 2nd & 3rd albums would have been pretty damn successful riding the coattails of 10, but for sure he was a great drummer for the band and did a lot for their sound. I don't think it's right to credit DA for their success in the early '90s (at least not exclusively), but that's just me.
I think JI is a great drummer too...... I don't think PJ writes Who You Are or In My Tree without him (two of my favorite PJ tunes). He may not have the chops that DA has, but I personally like what he brought to the table for their studio work. (never got to see either live, so I can't comment on that)
I also think JI's drum work on Brain of J are as good as anything DA ever recorded with the band - that track alone would make me a huge Jack Irons fan, even if I had heard nothing else by the guy.
If anything, I think Krusen is the least dynamic of the 4 guys who played on their studio albums, but whatever, he was there at the start.
However, the 2012 Go vs the 93 Go was less of a performance (for me) just watching those, not because of the tempo or drums but because 2012 was a much poorer vocal performance. I think 2008-2012 was Eddie's low point for vocals. Voice cracking etc (right at the beginning of the song, which I assume was the first song played that night). He recovered pretty well the last few years.
I am so sorry. Now on top of the who's the better drummer arguments, I threw in the Eddie vocal argument.
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and there's no doubt that Eddie idolizes Matt. I don't think this will even be addressed by him at all. if it gets addressed, it will be on the podium, a flip comment by Mike or Stone. that's it.
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But Matt is Pearl Jam. Love the band and how it's aged since 1994. Like a fine wine or a good 80's comedy - it's perfect.
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"Pearl Jam released a great debut 25 years ago, you have had a place in the history of rock - congratulations PEARL JAM you are inducted. Welcome to the club." Pearl Jam - as in the band, and everything that has been the band from the debut and forward.
1. A band is chosen to be inducted.
2. The RnR HoF congratulations the band and asks them how many tickets the band needs.
3. The band decides on who and not to invite to join them - current and/or former members.
Obviously there's different circumstances for every band, but in the case of KISS. They're legacy was cemented before the new guys ever joined band. The best albums and the best tours were all before the new guys joined in. If the new guys got in it's because of what the other guys did years ago, not because of their contributions. Thus I agree with the RRoH on that one.
As the RRoH is all over the place when it comes to this, maybe they should create some consistency. Musician was part of their band for X amount of platinum selling albums (a rudimentary measure of popular/influence of albums).
This is generally why I think people like Dave A. deserve to be nominated, but new Kiss members don't.
Geddy lee? meh; Neil Peart G.O.A.T.
So it's not necessarily that Ten was their first record so Dave K has to be in. It's their most popular and well known I believe that the decision was based. If Ten didn't put then on the map. And it was Vs. Then Dave A. has a better chance. Also had there been videos for Daughter, Go, Rearviewmirror, Better Man, Immortality, Spin the Black Circle. I believe those albums would be up there with Ten in terms of sales.
yup. still amazing they broke up after he died considering how crazy popular they still were. and they were still really young, i think robert plant was only 32 at the time. thats 1 of my fav things about led zep, they knew he was irreplaceable and they didnt wanna mess up the legacy of the band.