There's nothing wrong with being proud of your grandparent's accomplishments, pjhawks. I don't think people are intentionally trying to discount the hardships they had to overcome. It is truly great that you feel such respect for them.
so all you who are saying that i can't compare my grandparents oppression to the blacks of the same time would you consider Kaepernick less oppressed because he was raised by white parents?
so all you who are saying that i can't compare my grandparents oppression to the blacks of the same time would you consider Kaepernick less oppressed because he was raised by white parents?
I'm not sure what your driving at with that comparison. You can compare your grandparents oppression to black people's oppression but why? That's just not the point of CK's actions or the topic of this thread. My Amish side of the family no doubt faced some bigotry and oppression (no where near as much as African Americans, of course) but that's a different story than this one. Besides, if you ask CK what he thinks of oppression in general a thousand bucks says he is against all oppression. But he isn't all those kinds of people.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.
do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
Reread the first line.
i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.
edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
oh so now it's degrees of discrimination? so some of it is/was ok? can you quantify what amount of it is ok so if i meet my grandparents somewhere in the after life i can tell them the discrimination they faced was ok because of your scale?
Of course there's going to be degrees of discrimination. Nowhere am I saying any of it's okay, I'm suggesting people not be in denial of white privilege. You're not insulting your family if you acknowledge it.
so my grandparents were discriminated against but still benefited from white privilege? that is what you are saying. nah that's not insulting to them
hawks, are you now treated as your grandparents likely were?
guess what, that black boy born yesterday will likely see the same fear and distrust toward them when he grows up as is shown today not to mention the shit that has occured since emancipation as "free" people.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable.
Actually, it is deniable...
But im actually more interested in talking about Black responsibility... but I don't see that happening around here... too many people racked with white guilt that want to make sure black people feel like inferior victims the rest of their lives
It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.
do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
Reread the first line.
i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.
edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
oh so now it's degrees of discrimination? so some of it is/was ok? can you quantify what amount of it is ok so if i meet my grandparents somewhere in the after life i can tell them the discrimination they faced was ok because of your scale?
Of course there's going to be degrees of discrimination. Nowhere am I saying any of it's okay, I'm suggesting people not be in denial of white privilege. You're not insulting your family if you acknowledge it.
so my grandparents were discriminated against but still benefited from white privilege? that is what you are saying. nah that's not insulting to them
hawks, are you now treated as your grandparents likely were?
guess what, that black boy born yesterday will likely see the same fear and distrust toward them when he grows up as is shown today not to mention the shit that has occured since emancipation as "free" people.
no i'm not but that is because or their actions and my parents actions. they earned the change for me. statistics say the chances that that black boy born yesterday will be in the criminal justice system by the time he is in his 20s and/or won't have a relationship with his father are much higher than they were for me. surely that plays a role don't you think?
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Why do folks like you and pjhawks get so butthurt over this issue? It doesn't make much sense. Believe it or not, y'all aren't the only folks who worked hard in life! It seems to me like a psychological thing, like maybe deep down you recognize the truth of it and it rankles the upper levels of your conscious thought. The reason the butthurt anger makes no sense is that NO ONE IS SAYING YOU WERE DONE FAVORS FOR BEING WHITE! Get that through your head, if you can. What people are saying is that you have the privilege of not being actively held back by virtue of being white. Citing that there can be no white privilege because we have a black president is intellectually weak. There are dozens of economic, penal, and discriminatory statistics across the breadth of our society that make 1 black president look like the footnote that it truly is.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
That's right. Now we have black presidents.
You got me. Racism doesn't exist anymore, America elected a black president. Proof.
the thing with white privilege is that it doesn't mean every white person's experience is the same as everyone else's ... that concept be universally understood when talking about something like this ... also, it needs to be understood within the concepts of other privileges that are tied to economic class or disabilities or sexual identification ...
most white people would not understand the concept of white privilege because they take certain things for granted and have never experienced the disadvantages of not being white ... example ... the roads in white neighbourhoods are in better condition than in black neighbourhoods ... it's not something anyone is gonna notice because people assume - that's just the way it is ... having said that - you can be a white person and have shit thrown on you because of other factors ... the privilege isn't universal ...
it's a concept that is similar to institutionalized racism ... it's better explained through academic articles vs. anecdotal experiences ...
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable.
Actually, it is deniable...
But im actually more interested in talking about Black responsibility... but I don't see that happening around here... too many people racked with white guilt that want to make sure black people feel like inferior victims the rest of their lives
White guilt? I can't remember ever saying I felt guilty. Understanding and acceptance is about as far from guilt as you can get. What I see is some here trying to turn a blind eye and scapegoat.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
That's right. Now we have black presidents.
You got me. Racism doesn't exist anymore, America elected a black president. Proof.
It has gotten much better and a large vocal group is claiming it's much worse.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
That's right. Now we have black presidents.
You got me. Racism doesn't exist anymore, America elected a black president. Proof.
It has gotten much better and a large vocal group is claiming it's much worse.
Not really. Now that they have a voice, because things have improved, they are using that voice to make the case that they still have work to do, progress to be made.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Why do folks like you and pjhawks get so butthurt over this issue? It doesn't make much sense. Believe it or not, y'all aren't the only folks who worked hard in life! It seems to me like a psychological thing, like maybe deep down you recognize the truth of it and it rankles the upper levels of your conscious thought. The reason the butthurt anger makes no sense is that NO ONE IS SAYING YOU WERE DONE FAVORS FOR BEING WHITE! Get that through your head, if you can. What people are saying is that you have the privilege of not being actively held back by virtue of being white. Citing that there can be no white privilege because we have a black president is intellectually weak. There are dozens of economic, penal, and discriminatory statistics across the breadth of our society that make 1 black president look like the footnote that it truly is.
because the assumption was made that all white people EVER in this country have been afforded so-called white privilege. when i pointed out my grandparents and parents surely weren't granted white privilege i had shots taken at me and them. i'll be damned if ill sit back and let a bunch of stuck up know it all's poo-poo the accomplishments of those in my family who came before me.
maybe some of you feel guilty how you or your families have treated minorities in your life and shaming whites makes you feel better about yourself.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
That's right. Now we have black presidents.
You got me. Racism doesn't exist anymore, America elected a black president. Proof.
It has gotten much better and a large vocal group is claiming it's much worse.
Who? Pointing out systemic racism shouldn't be confused with people thinking things have gotten worse.
And by what measuring stick in time? 50 years ago or 2 years ago?
Also I think there could be an argument made that in this current political climate (Trump) racism has become less taboo. We even have a couple posters here that openly flaunt it.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Why do folks like you and pjhawks get so butthurt over this issue? It doesn't make much sense. Believe it or not, y'all aren't the only folks who worked hard in life! It seems to me like a psychological thing, like maybe deep down you recognize the truth of it and it rankles the upper levels of your conscious thought. The reason the butthurt anger makes no sense is that NO ONE IS SAYING YOU WERE DONE FAVORS FOR BEING WHITE! Get that through your head, if you can. What people are saying is that you have the privilege of not being actively held back by virtue of being white. Citing that there can be no white privilege because we have a black president is intellectually weak. There are dozens of economic, penal, and discriminatory statistics across the breadth of our society that make 1 black president look like the footnote that it truly is.
because the assumption was made that all white people EVER in this country have been afforded so-called white privilege. when i pointed out my grandparents and parents surely weren't granted white privilege i had shots taken at me and them. i'll be damned if ill sit back and let a bunch of stuck up know it all's poo-poo the accomplishments of those in my family who came before me.
maybe some of you feel guilty how you or your families have treated minorities in your life and shaming whites makes you feel better about yourself.
None of that actually happened. That's all a very twisted perception that doesn't square with the reality of what was said.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
That's right. Now we have black presidents.
You got me. Racism doesn't exist anymore, America elected a black president. Proof.
It has gotten much better and a large vocal group is claiming it's much worse.
Not really. Now that they have a voice, because things have improved, they are using that voice to make the case that they still have work to do, progress to be made.
There's work to be done for sure- by all stakeholders. Not just white cops.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
And white privilege makes work and responsibility that much easier.
I would say yes to work. I wouldn't agree with you on the responsibility item.
Personal responsibility does not require favour.
The concept of responsibility is very ambiguous when you start to dig at it. Whites in denial of white privilege will attribute their success more to their individual efforts and less to what's around them externally.
Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
And white privilege makes work and responsibility that much easier.
I would say yes to work. I wouldn't agree with you on the responsibility item.
Personal responsibility does not require favour.
The concept of responsibility is very ambiguous when you start to dig at it. Whites in denial of white privilege will attribute their success more to their individual efforts and less to what's around them externally.
Making the decision to engage in crime, drop out of school, abdicate parental responsibility, ignore police commands, and the like are all items- as challenging as they might be- of personal responsibility that lie completely within the individual's control.
Comments
and
Huh?
Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi
Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
guess what, that black boy born yesterday will likely see the same fear and distrust toward them when he grows up as is shown today not to mention the shit that has occured since emancipation as "free" people.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think this would solve a large percentage of problems we all face
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
"Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
But im actually more interested in talking about Black responsibility... but I don't see that happening around here... too many people racked with white guilt that want to make sure black people feel like inferior victims the rest of their lives
The reason the butthurt anger makes no sense is that NO ONE IS SAYING YOU WERE DONE FAVORS FOR BEING WHITE! Get that through your head, if you can. What people are saying is that you have the privilege of not being actively held back by virtue of being white.
Citing that there can be no white privilege because we have a black president is intellectually weak. There are dozens of economic, penal, and discriminatory statistics across the breadth of our society that make 1 black president look like the footnote that it truly is.
most white people would not understand the concept of white privilege because they take certain things for granted and have never experienced the disadvantages of not being white ... example ... the roads in white neighbourhoods are in better condition than in black neighbourhoods ... it's not something anyone is gonna notice because people assume - that's just the way it is ... having said that - you can be a white person and have shit thrown on you because of other factors ... the privilege isn't universal ...
it's a concept that is similar to institutionalized racism ... it's better explained through academic articles vs. anecdotal experiences ...
maybe some of you feel guilty how you or your families have treated minorities in your life and shaming whites makes you feel better about yourself.
And by what measuring stick in time? 50 years ago or 2 years ago?
Also I think there could be an argument made that in this current political climate (Trump) racism has become less taboo. We even have a couple posters here that openly flaunt it.
That's all a very twisted perception that doesn't square with the reality of what was said.
or just obtuse
Personal responsibility does not require favour.