So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
So you are saying Scandinavia does another thing correctly in other words?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
So you are saying Scandinavia does another thing correctly in other words?
Certainly do some things better. But I would say that your statement assumes that work is not actually enjoyable for some people.
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
The article you posted indicates that teachers work about the same number of hours as other professions. Teachers make, on average, "19% less than similarly skilled and educated professionals." I believe teachers should be the highest paid amongst that group.....so you see the problem?
Yeah I k ow what the article said. It said same number of hours during the non-summer and about 1/2 of the time in the summer.
So about 87-88% the average of other workers.
Of course it kinda also depends on the value of the jobs.
Do people imagine that lawyers or accountants--if they were only employed nine months of the year--could just go lawyer/accountant somewhere else during those other 3 months?
Probably not a good comparison because yes they could
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. I believe you make at least 100k/year, so I'll use that as my number. If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
The article you posted indicates that teachers work about the same number of hours as other professions. Teachers make, on average, "19% less than similarly skilled and educated professionals." I believe teachers should be the highest paid amongst that group.....so you see the problem?
Yeah I k ow what the article said. It said same number of hours during the non-summer and about 1/2 of the time in the summer.
So about 87-88% the average of other workers.
Of course it kinda also depends on the value of the jobs.
Do people imagine that lawyers or accountants--if they were only employed nine months of the year--could just go lawyer/accountant somewhere else during those other 3 months?
Probably not a good comparison because yes they could
but I’m not really sure the point.
Really, you think a law firm would just be like, "sure, we'll hire you for 3 months, knowing you're going to quit at the end of that time"?
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
The article you posted indicates that teachers work about the same number of hours as other professions. Teachers make, on average, "19% less than similarly skilled and educated professionals." I believe teachers should be the highest paid amongst that group.....so you see the problem?
Yeah I k ow what the article said. It said same number of hours during the non-summer and about 1/2 of the time in the summer.
So about 87-88% the average of other workers.
Of course it kinda also depends on the value of the jobs.
Do people imagine that lawyers or accountants--if they were only employed nine months of the year--could just go lawyer/accountant somewhere else during those other 3 months?
Probably not a good comparison because yes they could
but I’m not really sure the point.
Really, you think a law firm would just be like, "sure, we'll hire you for 3 months, knowing you're going to quit at the end of that time"?
You don’t have to work for a law firm to work as a lawyer. I k ow someone on dialysis that works part time lawyer gigs that can fit into his new life and schedule. My point was, I understand your point and just think you picked a terrible job as the example
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
The article you posted indicates that teachers work about the same number of hours as other professions. Teachers make, on average, "19% less than similarly skilled and educated professionals." I believe teachers should be the highest paid amongst that group.....so you see the problem?
Yeah I k ow what the article said. It said same number of hours during the non-summer and about 1/2 of the time in the summer.
So about 87-88% the average of other workers.
Of course it kinda also depends on the value of the jobs.
Do people imagine that lawyers or accountants--if they were only employed nine months of the year--could just go lawyer/accountant somewhere else during those other 3 months?
Probably not a good comparison because yes they could
but I’m not really sure the point.
Really, you think a law firm would just be like, "sure, we'll hire you for 3 months, knowing you're going to quit at the end of that time"?
You don’t have to work for a law firm to work as a lawyer. I k ow someone on dialysis that works part time lawyer gigs that can fit into his new life and schedule. My point was, I understand your point and just think you picked a terrible job as the example
Not that is has much to do with this theoretical fantasy -- but most often here you are not allowed to go work for competitors or sometimes even in the same field when employed. I would be surprised if that is not true also in the U S of A.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
Well, at least we've identified the root of the disagreement. I think teachers should make more than you.
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
Well, at least we've identified the root of the disagreement. I think teachers should make more than you.
Follow-up question for Cincy: what jobs do you think should make less than teachers? Accountants? Plumbers? Yoga instructors? Surgeons? Truck drivers?
Thank you for posting this. My only objection to the article is the use of the word "shirk" to describe teachers who don't work long hours. It implies that teachers who work an 8 hour day are irresponsible, going back to what a poster (I think PJPower?) said before about the bias toward working excessively as a measure of good teaching.
The conclusion to this article hits the nail on the head: "The bottom line on deciding on compensation is whether you’re paying enough to get a sufficiently large supply of sufficiently good employees. In other words, if you think we have more great teachers than we need you should be okay with lower compensation rates. Contrariwise, if you think we need more great teachers than we have on board then you should want to raise salaries. That’s how a market system works—you get what you pay for." Given the current REAL teacher shortage in the nation (which I posted about earlier in an article from the Economic Policy Institute) -- I would argue that paying teachers more would help fill the positions that go unfilled every year and help alleviate the attrition rate which is decimating especially to high-needs schools.
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
Well, at least we've identified the root of the disagreement. I think teachers should make more than you.
You don’t even know what I do
That probably means you think teachers should make more than everyone? Every grade level?
Thank you for posting this. My only objection to the article is the use of the word "shirk" to describe teachers who don't work long hours. It implies that teachers who work an 8 hour day are irresponsible, going back to what a poster (I think PJPower?) said before about the bias toward working excessively as a measure of good teaching.
The conclusion to this article hits the nail on the head: "The bottom line on deciding on compensation is whether you’re paying enough to get a sufficiently large supply of sufficiently good employees. In other words, if you think we have more great teachers than we need you should be okay with lower compensation rates. Contrariwise, if you think we need more great teachers than we have on board then you should want to raise salaries. That’s how a market system works—you get what you pay for." Given the current REAL teacher shortage in the nation (which I posted about earlier in an article from the Economic Policy Institute) -- I would argue that paying teachers more would help fill the positions that go unfilled every year and help alleviate the attrition rate which is decimating especially to high-needs schools.
Yeah I was kinda surprised others did hit on this part because I felt it was the most eye opening statement. Hard to argue with it.
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
Well, at least we've identified the root of the disagreement. I think teachers should make more than you.
Follow-up question for Cincy: what jobs do you think should make less than teachers? Accountants? Plumbers? Yoga instructors? Surgeons? Truck drivers?
I don’t think I get to decide. It depends on how many people can do and are willing to do the job. The market helps decide. And you can’t group all “accountants” into 1 lump...any more than you can lump all “engineers” or all “teachers”. They are doing different work.
You are the only one that said any specific person or group should make less than a teacher. Based on your calculation I’m going to go ask for a raise though, thanks!
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
Well, at least we've identified the root of the disagreement. I think teachers should make more than you.
You don’t even know what I do
That probably means you think teachers should make more than everyone? Every grade level?
No, but I've seen enough posts from you to rule out a lot of areas.
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
Well, at least we've identified the root of the disagreement. I think teachers should make more than you.
Follow-up question for Cincy: what jobs do you think should make less than teachers? Accountants? Plumbers? Yoga instructors? Surgeons? Truck drivers?
I don’t think I get to decide. It depends on how many people can do and are willing to do the job. The market helps decide. And you can’t group all “accountants” into 1 lump...any more than you can lump all “engineers” or all “teachers”. They are doing different work.
You are the only one that said any specific person or group should make less than a teacher. Based on your calculation I’m going to go ask for a raise though, thanks!
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
Well, at least we've identified the root of the disagreement. I think teachers should make more than you.
Follow-up question for Cincy: what jobs do you think should make less than teachers? Accountants? Plumbers? Yoga instructors? Surgeons? Truck drivers?
I don’t think I get to decide. It depends on how many people can do and are willing to do the job. The market helps decide. And you can’t group all “accountants” into 1 lump...any more than you can lump all “engineers” or all “teachers”. They are doing different work.
You are the only one that said any specific person or group should make less than a teacher. Based on your calculation I’m going to go ask for a raise though, thanks!
See, I have a much simpler equation.
Yet you never post it. Just cryptic one liners. You’d fail your students for this nonsense
hippiemom = goodness
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. " Hugh, 1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time? 2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.
"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right." I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.
Think of teachers as artists and their students as canvases, a pile of different materials or blocks of clay. Some of that will become masterpieces, a small percentage, auctioned at Christies, some will be shown and exhibited in trendy art galleries, some will end up in the Crate & Barrel catalog and others will remain half finished or in the dumpster. Teachers, like artists, need time off to recharge, regain their energy and creativity, to mold and create, hopefully masterpieces but what most artists end up creating, average works that look just fine to somebody sitting in the corner, hanging on their wall, adding value to their everyday. A classroom of 25 to 35, 3rd to 12th graders is hardly a cookie cutter approach for a teacher as is a room full of disparate materials and mediums are for an artist. I'd love to see anyone in here who is not a teacher spend a year in a teacher's shoes and then see whether they complain about the pay and the summer's off, etc., etc.
I think we are now BFF s.
I'll bring the ice. Or maybe on your underpaid salary, the wine?
He teaches in Jersey, he probably gets a better paycheck than most teachers I know of, judging from what I see in the public listings in Cherry Hill. (I am happy to read what many of the teachers can make here, I am all for paying the handlers of our obnoxious youth as much as it takes to keep quality minds trying to assist in shaping our kids. The Zoomers make me want to smash myself in the nuts with a hammer, cannot imagine dealing with them in large groups, all day.)
Make him provide the wine, though!
I have a bottle of popov's with your name written all over it.
Hahaha. Man, I used to kill a handle of that with some five alive and my two roommates. A handle would last me a year, now.
It takes you a year to drink a handle?!
Popov? At this point it would....that is horrid stuff. Would likely only be used in emergencies
And Sunny Delight makes for a great day!
I prefer Five Alive to Sunny D, but that is the type of thing you need to do w/Popov....agreed!
Breakfast of Champions!
I prefer this side of the conversation vs this “against teachers” bullshit.
So how many hours per week to teachers in the U S of A work? If people in here say they only work part time.
Well they start out working about 180 days vs roughly 230 for other jobs. But that is just the straight up work days and doesn’t include time put in on off days. Of course teachers aren’t the only ones putting in time outside of the normal 9-5 (which isn’t normal anymore ).
The article I posted tried to get closer to a real answer.
I don't care about days. I care about hours.
Like I've stated here before - in Sweden full time is 40 hours per week. My brother (teacher for 16-19 year olds - is that "high school" in the US maybe) works 45 hours per week to account for the extra time off because of summer/winter break.
And yes I have a job where I put in hours after 5 and on weekends etc (but we do get an extra week of paid vaccation for it, instead of overtime) - but most people still work 8-5 jobs (don't get 9-5 - that is 7 hours if you have 1hour lunch(?)).
Then read the article.
Hahahaha people work 8-5 with an hour lunch? Hahahahaha you sound like my grandma.
I would guess that I work 50-55 hours a week normally and my wife works closer to the 60-70 and for months straight it’ll be more like 80.
Are you a salaried employee?
Yup
K. Some rough math, based on your posts/numbers. You make somewhere around 100k (or plan to break that barrier soon). If you work 55 hours/week, you make roughly $35-38/hour (you'll note that I'm generously not counting any vacation time). The average teacher makes around $60,000. According to the article you posted, the average teacher works somewhere north of 1800 hours in a year, which means they make between $33 and $34/hour.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
Ummm yeah I do. But I’m also ok with teachers making more.
Personally I feel supporting schools with funding so they have everything they need to do their jobs is the #1 priority.
I’ve never said they were overpaid. Just that they are an interesting case. And like that article said, the value of the job should help determine that pay.
Well, at least we've identified the root of the disagreement. I think teachers should make more than you.
Follow-up question for Cincy: what jobs do you think should make less than teachers? Accountants? Plumbers? Yoga instructors? Surgeons? Truck drivers?
I don’t think I get to decide. It depends on how many people can do and are willing to do the job. The market helps decide. And you can’t group all “accountants” into 1 lump...any more than you can lump all “engineers” or all “teachers”. They are doing different work.
You are the only one that said any specific person or group should make less than a teacher. Based on your calculation I’m going to go ask for a raise though, thanks!
See, I have a much simpler equation.
Yet you never post it. Just cryptic one liners. You’d fail your students for this nonsense
But I would say that your statement assumes that work is not actually enjoyable for some people.
?
Some people like working...they enjoy their work. If the only goal is to work as little as possible and go home then less hours are always good. But some people enjoy their work and get fulfillment from it
But I would say that your statement assumes that work is not actually enjoyable for some people.
?
Some people like working...they enjoy their work. If the only goal is to work as little as possible and go home then less hours are always good. But some people enjoy their work and get fulfillment from it
8 hours work hours I would guess in the modern world is quite the standard (40h/ week)(?)... having breaks isn't about "not wanting to work".
And working 9 to 5 without a break, in what way is that working more than 8 to 5 with a lunch break?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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but I’m not really sure the point.
So, a simple question: do you think you should make more--on a per-hour basis--than the average teacher?
The conclusion to this article hits the nail on the head: "The bottom line on deciding on compensation is whether you’re paying enough to get a sufficiently large supply of sufficiently good employees. In other words, if you think we have more great teachers than we need you should be okay with lower compensation rates. Contrariwise, if you think we need more great teachers than we have on board then you should want to raise salaries. That’s how a market system works—you get what you pay for." Given the current REAL teacher shortage in the nation (which I posted about earlier in an article from the Economic Policy Institute) -- I would argue that paying teachers more would help fill the positions that go unfilled every year and help alleviate the attrition rate which is decimating especially to high-needs schools.
That probably means you think teachers should make more than everyone? Every grade level?
You are the only one that said any specific person or group should make less than a teacher. Based on your calculation I’m going to go ask for a raise though, thanks!
What a ridiculous conclusion to draw.
And working 9 to 5 without a break, in what way is that working more than 8 to 5 with a lunch break?