Something about teacher's pay...

catefrances

Thoughts_Arrive said:

catefrances said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Meltdown99 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.

Neither do you need one in Australia.
Some universities offer it some don't.
When I was doing my placement I had other student teachers from other universities doing their masters.

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Meltdown99 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.

Neither do you need one in Australia.
Some universities offer it some don't.
When I was doing my placement I had other student teachers from other universities doing their masters.

when i was studying, if youd obtained an undergrad degree, you had to satisfy the dept of education guidelines to do a masters in secondary education, dependant on what that  degree was. i did my bachelors degree majoring in english and history/philosophy/politics. when it came time for my masters i had to be in possession of a quota of whatever my KLA was going to be. mine was english and history. if you didnt have that quota you had to study them concourrently with your masters. 

The Melbourne Uni students I spoke to on placement had their KLA's already and just had to do the teaching subjects.
When I was doing my BA (Humanities) I was doing both concurrently. 

yeah i picked my undergrad subjects knowing what the endgame was. 

Bentleyspop

This is wrong.....

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/996865636486828033?s=19

Thoughts_Arrive

Bentleyspop said:

This is wrong.....

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/996865636486828033?s=19

Happens here too. 

brianlux

^^^"  U.S. public school teachers spent their own money on classroom supplies during the 2014-2015 school year. On average, each spent $479 without reimbursement."

Yeah, what's with that?  Particularly in poorer school districts, teachers do shell out a lot of cash for their students.  And some poor school districts have little money.  I subbed a couple days in a school that was outside the main geographic area of the district once that was dirt poor and had a fairly high percentage of (wouldn't you know it) American Indians.  It was heartbreaking.  Kids in beat to shit old clothes.  Shitty building.  Not enough heat.  Super old textbooks that were shit when they were new and only got shittier with age.  Almost nothing in the way of paper and writing implements (both the school and the parents were poor).  Electronics?  Oh sure, a light switch or two.  But they were cool kids and I wish I could have done more for them.  I was scraping by myself at the time. 

mace1229

When I worked in CA we were given $100 gift card to staples at the beginning of each year and that was for our supplies. We had to buy anything and everything on our own, whiteboard markers, staples, you name it. And for science teachers like myself we were expected to run labs regularly, I probably spent $100 a month out of my pocket. Buying lab supplies for 150 kids usually isn't cheap.
Now in Colorado we at least get a decent budget that we get reimbursed from, but I still probably spend about $200 a year.

jeffbr

My daughter is a teacher in a fairly well-to-do district. She has to live an hour away because she can't afford to live within the district. She also shells out her own money on classroom supplies. Bullshit. Underpaid, overworked, and not properly supported. 

HughFreakingDillon

I really don't understand how this is allowed to happen. I have a good friend who is a teacher, and she often posts things on facebook about having to buy supplies for her classroom. that is unbelievable to me. there needs to be awareness of this. it doesn't matter how much teachers get paid (when speaking about shelling out for supplies). if they made $200K a year they still shouldn't have to buy what the school /parents should be paying for. 

how do the schools/school boards respond when asked why this happens?

my grade 3er's teacher sent home a note asking for donations of Kleenex as they have run out for the year. Seriously. we donate at the beginning of the year. is it a big deal? no. but every place I have ever worked has provided fucking kleenex for their staff. 

Maybe I should ask my daughter's teacher if she shells out for supplies. At the beginning of every year, we get a list of supplies we're supposed to buy for the class. They don't do individual supplies anymore. everyone buys the same stuff and it goes into a pool for that class room for the year. that's how it should be done. although, it does seem unfair to those parents/families who make much less than others. not sure how that should work. 

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

I really don't understand how this is allowed to happen. I have a good friend who is a teacher, and she often posts things on facebook about having to buy supplies for her classroom. that is unbelievable to me. there needs to be awareness of this. it doesn't matter how much teachers get paid (when speaking about shelling out for supplies). if they made $200K a year they still shouldn't have to buy what the school /parents should be paying for. 

how do the schools/school boards respond when asked why this happens?

my grade 3er's teacher sent home a note asking for donations of Kleenex as they have run out for the year. Seriously. we donate at the beginning of the year. is it a big deal? no. but every place I have ever worked has provided fucking kleenex for their staff. 

Maybe I should ask my daughter's teacher if she shells out for supplies. At the beginning of every year, we get a list of supplies we're supposed to buy for the class. They don't do individual supplies anymore. everyone buys the same stuff and it goes into a pool for that class room for the year. that's how it should be done. although, it does seem unfair to those parents/families who make much less than others. not sure how that should work. 

I agree with this:
"it doesn't matter how much teachers get paid (when speaking about shelling out for supplies). if they made $200K a year they still shouldn't have to buy what the school /parents should be paying for."

Forgetting about teacher's pay/benefits....we need to first support the school/classroom with the materials needed.  While I certainly don;t mind as a parent that I get a list of materials to send into the school each year, I really don't even understand some of that.  I mean, sure buying some notebooks, pencils, etc.  But tissues for the class?  Sanitizer?  We can certainly afford it, but maybe others can't.  I think the schools should be funded to support all those materials.  I'd rather pay more in tax then I even do in those supplies for that effort for sure....cause you know it's $ very well spent.

mace1229

There is so much wasted money in school districts it is sickening. Some states (l believe Jersey is one) have passed laws to cap the salary of admin because they were getting paid so much. Over 400k in some places that prompted some to pass laws.
At my district teachers make 20% below the national average, but our superintendent makes about 80% above it, at nearly 250k for a very small district of less than 10,000 students. That is considered a small district. We have a full time HR, and a part time one who refuses to retire, but has been here so long he makes well over 100k. Our building admin make about 20% above the national average. It just makes me sick when I look at all that money and see that the teachers make 20% below the average. There really needs to be laws to cap it. No way should a part time HR rep make triple what a new teacher names, or double what the average one makes (working full freaking time!).
I would 100% support any laws that caps these greedy admin where so much of our money is going to. We don't have kleenex for our kids, and it is against district policy to ask for donation because it "makes us look poor." So are expected to either do without or pay for it ourselves.
Building admin should be capped at double average teacher salary for the district, and district admin should maybe to triple. No way should our super be making 250k when a teacher with 10 years in still makes under 50k. It is disgusting really. 

And now I will do my best to avoid mentioning what city/school I work in!

brianlux

mace1229 said:

There is so much wasted money in school districts it is sickening. Some states (l believe Jersey is one) have passed laws to cap the salary of admin because they were getting paid so much. Over 400k in some places that prompted some to pass laws.
At my district teachers make 20% below the national average, but our superintendent makes about 80% above it, at nearly 250k for a very small district of less than 10,000 students. That is considered a small district. We have a full time HR, and a part time one who refuses to retire, but has been here so long he makes well over 100k. Our building admin make about 20% above the national average. It just makes me sick when I look at all that money and see that the teachers make 20% below the average. There really needs to be laws to cap it. No way should a part time HR rep make triple what a new teacher names, or double what the average one makes (working full freaking time!).
I would 100% support any laws that caps these greedy admin where so much of our money is going to. We don't have kleenex for our kids, and it is against district policy to ask for donation because it "makes us look poor." So are expected to either do without or pay for it ourselves.
Building admin should be capped at double average teacher salary for the district, and district admin should maybe to triple. No way should our super be making 250k when a teacher with 10 years in still makes under 50k. It is disgusting really. 

And now I will do my best to avoid mentioning what city/school I work in!

True story:  I worked as program assistant at our local college for a few years (basically an assistant teaching position) and while talking to a couple of profs in the  hall, one of them said, "A lot of these admin people seem to be of the mind that if it wasn't for these damn students we could get some work done around here."  I've know some good people in admin but I've also seen a lot of over-paid dead wood that could definitely be cut out.

pjhawks

on the first day of summer want to wish the teachers in my area good luck on their next 75 or so days off.  enjoy

Thoughts_Arrive

News in Australia...
Teacher's earning $40k per year will now pay the same tax as someone on $200k.
Fair go. Not.

mcgruff10

School year ends Wednesday then I start my summer job Friday lol. Not all teachers have 75 days off. 

brianlux

mcgruff10 said:

School year ends Wednesday then I start my summer job Friday lol. Not all teachers have 75 days off. 

More like 90 to 120, right? 

Meltdown99

Does anyone know why teachers are not paid according to the degree of difficulty that the subject they are teaching ... ie a physic teacher is obviously a tougher course to teach and grade than say someone who teaches math for everyday life (this is apparently a subject)?  Just curious. To any teachers out their, I spent 25 years in maintenance at a school board ... how the hell do you not slug some of these kids?  just kidding, but man some of these kids today are wound tight...

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

Does anyone know why teachers are not paid according to the degree of difficulty that the subject they are teaching ... ie a physic teacher is obviously a tougher course to teach and grade than say someone who teaches math for everyday life (this is apparently a subject)?  Just curious. To any teachers out their, I spent 25 years in maintenance at a school board ... how the hell do you not slug some of these kids?  just kidding, but man some of these kids today are wound tight...

Aren't most physics teachers are paid higher than everyday math teachers.  The reason I would guess that is that I would think most good physics teachers probably work at the high school AP or college level and most math for everyday life teachers are entry level middle or high school. 

I kind of get what you're saying but then I have to ask, who or what determines which classes are easier to teach?  I wonder if the average math  teacher might have a hard time teaching pottery or would the average art teacher have a hard time teaching biology? 

It could be argued that if a teacher is doing their best to teach the subject they know best and is a subject they are good at themselves, then they all deserve the same pay.  The only way you could justify paying a teacher more for one subject over another would be if you place a higher value on that subject.  Outside my own interests, that's not a judgement I would make outside my own interests.  We all value different subjects differently and they all help form the character of who we are.

I might be persuaded to accept the idea that a teacher who is excellent at teaching integrated curriculum.  In fact, I wish most teacher taught integrated curriculum.  To plant a good garden you may use math to determine square footage of a plots, science and nature to understand which plants work best for companion planting and what nutrients are needed for a particular soil, English and writing to create  a journal and write recipes or other garden writing, speech to give a talk on how to build a good compost heap. P.E. (or Yoga) to keep in shape for the hard work and art to make beautiful painted pots for potted plants. And of course music to make your plants grow well:

Or as Neil Young once said, "It's all one song."

As for wanting to slug some kid- I've taught or subbed all grades including working for a few years at lower college level and in all those years, yes, there were a few kids that drove me to the brink, but, including my subbing years, I've worked with many hundreds of kids and only felt that way about a small percentage.  I had a class once that was completely made up of kids who were kicked out of their regular classes for "poor behavior".  I figured a lot of that "poor behavior" was just a reaction to some dip shit adults and lousy teachers.  Some of those kids gave me some shit, sure, but a lot of them were super happy to have an adult act like they cared rather than like a fucking drill sergeant.  Most of those kids were cool.  The problems always start with the adults, not the kids.  Would you agree?  Did you actually work with kids?

mcgruff10

Meltdown99 said:

Does anyone know why teachers are not paid according to the degree of difficulty that the subject they are teaching ... ie a physic teacher is obviously a tougher course to teach and grade than say someone who teaches math for everyday life (this is apparently a subject)?  Just curious. To any teachers out their, I spent 25 years in maintenance at a school board ... how the hell do you not slug some of these kids?  just kidding, but man some of these kids today are wound tight...

A lot of patience bud.  You just have to take a deep breath and realize they are kids.  Most of those wound up kids have a lot of baggage.  I have one kid who is constantly pushing everyone's buttons; I have a soft spot for him because both of his parents overdosed right in front of him.  So many stories over the years, I genuinely feel bad for a lot of them.  Four days to go!!!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Does anyone know why teachers are not paid according to the degree of difficulty that the subject they are teaching ... ie a physic teacher is obviously a tougher course to teach and grade than say someone who teaches math for everyday life (this is apparently a subject)?  Just curious. To any teachers out their, I spent 25 years in maintenance at a school board ... how the hell do you not slug some of these kids?  just kidding, but man some of these kids today are wound tight...

A lot of patience bud.  You just have to take a deep breath and realize they are kids.  Most of those wound up kids have a lot of baggage.  I have one kid who is constantly pushing everyone's buttons; I have a soft spot for him because both of his parents overdosed right in front of him.  So many stories over the years, I genuinely feel bad for a lot of them.  Four days to go!!!

And they hide their pain so well.

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Does anyone know why teachers are not paid according to the degree of difficulty that the subject they are teaching ... ie a physic teacher is obviously a tougher course to teach and grade than say someone who teaches math for everyday life (this is apparently a subject)?  Just curious. To any teachers out their, I spent 25 years in maintenance at a school board ... how the hell do you not slug some of these kids?  just kidding, but man some of these kids today are wound tight...

Aren't most physics teachers are paid higher than everyday math teachers.  The reason I would guess that is that I would think most good physics teachers probably work at the high school AP or college level and most math for everyday life teachers are entry level middle or high school. 

I kind of get what you're saying but then I have to ask, who or what determines which classes are easier to teach?  I wonder if the average math  teacher might have a hard time teaching pottery or would the average art teacher have a hard time teaching biology? 

It could be argued that if a teacher is doing their best to teach the subject they know best and is a subject they are good at themselves, then they all deserve the same pay.  The only way you could justify paying a teacher more for one subject over another would be if you place a higher value on that subject.  Outside my own interests, that's not a judgement I would make outside my own interests.  We all value different subjects differently and they all help form the character of who we are.

I might be persuaded to accept the idea that a teacher who is excellent at teaching integrated curriculum.  In fact, I wish most teacher taught integrated curriculum.  To plant a good garden you may use math to determine square footage of a plots, science and nature to understand which plants work best for companion planting and what nutrients are needed for a particular soil, English and writing to create  a journal and write recipes or other garden writing, speech to give a talk on how to build a good compost heap. P.E. (or Yoga) to keep in shape for the hard work and art to make beautiful painted pots for potted plants. And of course music to make your plants grow well:

Or as Neil Young once said, "It's all one song."

As for wanting to slug some kid- I've taught or subbed all grades including working for a few years at lower college level and in all those years, yes, there were a few kids that drove me to the brink, but, including my subbing years, I've worked with many hundreds of kids and only felt that way about a small percentage.  I had a class once that was completely made up of kids who were kicked out of their regular classes for "poor behavior".  I figured a lot of that "poor behavior" was just a reaction to some dip shit adults and lousy teachers.  Some of those kids gave me some shit, sure, but a lot of them were super happy to have an adult act like they cared rather than like a fucking drill sergeant.  Most of those kids were cool.  The problems always start with the adults, not the kids.  Would you agree?  Did you actually work with kids?

In Ontario once you are at the top of the grid, the pay is somewhat equal...no matter the topic you teach, I believe elementary and secondary teachers are now pretty much on par with each other...

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Does anyone know why teachers are not paid according to the degree of difficulty that the subject they are teaching ... ie a physic teacher is obviously a tougher course to teach and grade than say someone who teaches math for everyday life (this is apparently a subject)?  Just curious. To any teachers out their, I spent 25 years in maintenance at a school board ... how the hell do you not slug some of these kids?  just kidding, but man some of these kids today are wound tight...

A lot of patience bud.  You just have to take a deep breath and realize they are kids.  Most of those wound up kids have a lot of baggage.  I have one kid who is constantly pushing everyone's buttons; I have a soft spot for him because both of his parents overdosed right in front of him.  So many stories over the years, I genuinely feel bad for a lot of them.  Four days to go!!!

Yes, it takes patience ... but I wouldn't last a week.  They why teaching is so difficult...