Something about teacher's pay...

brianlux

This is awful. Further movement toward becoming Cretin Nation. If we don't both expect our teachers to be highly professional and compensate them accordingly, what can we expect from students?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/teacher-pay-gap_us_57b202cee4b0718404123555?section=politics

pjhawks

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

Free

Not in NY State. In Buffalo, teacher contract frills even included cosmetic surgery until a couple years ago. And in the district I work in part-time, the highest paid are 100k +.

NY is 2nd behind Alaska, I believe, being the top paid teachers.

Free

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

Not true. Not when common core has their hands tied. It's all about the test, nothing else.

And from my experience among the top paid comes massive entitled egos. I know a superintendent downstate who can't stand the egos of the teachers he has to work with.

brianlux

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

Cliffy6745

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

I certainly don't have a perfect answer here, but just to play devils advocate, just because teachers do what they do because they love it, doesn't make them good teachers. If making pay for teachers more competitive to other industries resulted in smarter, better and more effective teachers, I think I'd be fine with them not loving their job as much, so long as they are better at their job. I can't say that would be a direct correlation, but attracting smarter people who have many other career options, not saying current teachers don't, but making the field more competitive to other industries in general, can't be a bad thing.

bootlegger10

I wonder what the cost of building and maintenance has done over the years? Some of these schools being belt look a little excessive and probably cost a little excessive. Maybe saving money on the buildings could go to the teachers.

Cliffy6745

bootlegger10 said:

I wonder what the cost of building and maintenance has done over the years? Some of these schools being belt look a little excessive and probably cost a little excessive. Maybe saving money on the buildings could go to the teachers.

Are these public schools?

You should see the buildings in Philly...yikes.

brianlux

Free said:

Not in NY State. In Buffalo, teacher contract frills even included cosmetic surgery until a couple years ago. And in the district I work in part-time, the highest paid are 100k +.

NY is 2nd behind Alaska, I believe, being the top paid teachers.

110K + ? Wow! Surprising! I lived about 45 miles southwest of Buffalo for a couple of years and (at that time anyway) Buffalo seemed like the most decrepit, rundown city I'd ever seen. Something must have changed.

As for work hours/days, I don't know if it's the same everywhere but at least in CA and WA where I worked, teachers days are long- much more work than just class time. Summers are busy with putting curriculum together, staff meetings, taking on-going courses required to keep certificates current. The idea that teachers get 2 or 3 months off is a fallacy.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

how do you factor in school districts and communities paying into pensions and health care costs for teachers as well? i know many districts are trying to get out of the pension and lower health care costs but seems like teachers still get more than the average worker these days.

brianlux

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

I wonder what the cost of building and maintenance has done over the years? Some of these schools being belt look a little excessive and probably cost a little excessive. Maybe saving money on the buildings could go to the teachers.

Are these public schools?

You should see the buildings in Philly...yikes.

Yeah, I think it depends on the district or even the part of town. I work in Port Angels, WA for a few years. The schools in the "better" part of town were modern, clean, well stocked. The school in the part of the town that was more populated with American Indians, Hispanics and a few blacks were shameful. And I mean f*cking shameful. Leaky roofs, cold rooms, text books that were crap anyway when they were published in the early 60's. It was disgusting.

Free

brianlux said:

Free said:

Not in NY State. In Buffalo, teacher contract frills even included cosmetic surgery until a couple years ago. And in the district I work in part-time, the highest paid are 100k +.

NY is 2nd behind Alaska, I believe, being the top paid teachers.

110K + ? Wow! Surprising! I lived about 45 miles southwest of Buffalo for a couple of years and (at that time anyway) Buffalo seemed like the most decrepit, rundown city I'd ever seen. Something must have changed.

As for work hours/days, I don't know if it's the same everywhere but at least in CA and WA where I worked, teachers days are long- much more work than just class time. Summers are busy with putting curriculum together, staff meetings, taking on-going courses required to keep certificates current. The idea that teachers get 2 or 3 months off is a fallacy.

Brian, I have 2 sisters who are teachers, one lives in NY the other in D.C. They both have very leisurely summers. In fact the sister in DC takes a month vacation at my home town then another week in the Carribean. My BIL who's a tech teacher stays busy in the summer teaching drivers Ed and another class...

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.

brianlux

Free said:

brianlux said:

Free said:

Not in NY State. In Buffalo, teacher contract frills even included cosmetic surgery until a couple years ago. And in the district I work in part-time, the highest paid are 100k +.

NY is 2nd behind Alaska, I believe, being the top paid teachers.

110K + ? Wow! Surprising! I lived about 45 miles southwest of Buffalo for a couple of years and (at that time anyway) Buffalo seemed like the most decrepit, rundown city I'd ever seen. Something must have changed.

As for work hours/days, I don't know if it's the same everywhere but at least in CA and WA where I worked, teachers days are long- much more work than just class time. Summers are busy with putting curriculum together, staff meetings, taking on-going courses required to keep certificates current. The idea that teachers get 2 or 3 months off is a fallacy.

Brian, I have 2 sisters who are teachers, one lives in NY the other in D.C. They both have very leisurely summers. In fact the sister in DC takes a month vacation at my home town then another week in the Carribean. My BIL who's a tech teacher stays busy in the summer teaching drivers Ed and another class...

It must be a state by state thing then because I've known many teachers out here and that's just not the case here. Would be interesting to see how some of our resident teachers here view this.

Free

brianlux said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

I wonder what the cost of building and maintenance has done over the years? Some of these schools being belt look a little excessive and probably cost a little excessive. Maybe saving money on the buildings could go to the teachers.

Are these public schools?

You should see the buildings in Philly...yikes.

Yeah, I think it depends on the district or even the part of town. I work in Port Angels, WA for a few years. The schools in the "better" part of town were modern, clean, well stocked. The school in the part of the town that was more populated with American Indians, Hispanics and a few blacks were shameful. And I mean f*cking shameful. Leaky roofs, cold rooms, text books that were crap anyway when they were published in the early 60's. It was disgusting.

I work in a rural district w/ conditions like this, they recently planned a building and grounds improvement project slated for 2017. But the teachers make great pay, and the teacher aides make minimum wage.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.

the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

brianlux

Free said:

brianlux said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

I wonder what the cost of building and maintenance has done over the years? Some of these schools being belt look a little excessive and probably cost a little excessive. Maybe saving money on the buildings could go to the teachers.

Are these public schools?

You should see the buildings in Philly...yikes.

Yeah, I think it depends on the district or even the part of town. I work in Port Angels, WA for a few years. The schools in the "better" part of town were modern, clean, well stocked. The school in the part of the town that was more populated with American Indians, Hispanics and a few blacks were shameful. And I mean f*cking shameful. Leaky roofs, cold rooms, text books that were crap anyway when they were published in the early 60's. It was disgusting.

I work in a rural district w/ conditions like this, they recently planned a building and grounds improvement project slated for 2017. But the teachers make great pay, and the teacher aides make minimum wage.

Bummer for the aides- and yes, they work very hard! Great pay for teachers though is just not the norm nationwide. In Japan, teachers are expected to work at the level of professionals like doctors and lawyers and such and are compensated thus. Not so in America. Our priorities are out of balance that way and our students are generally not well educated- unless you are wealthy and can send your kids to private schools. At least that's how it is our here in the west.

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.

the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.

Free

The problem is common core.

jeffbr

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.

the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.

My daughter is a special education teacher in WA, and she definitely doesn't have 2.5 months of Summer vacation. She is responsible for writing IEPs for each of the students who will be in her classroom, goes to workshops and conferences, etc... She might get a few weeks of needed downtime, but certainly not months. During the school year she is in by 6am and after getting home and having dinner she's back to work on lesson plans and grading until bedtime. She is absolutely overworked and underpaid, but loves the kids she works with.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.

the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.

i would imagine in CA or WA there are very few 5 or even a 4 day work weeks for teachers from mid-june to mid-august (normnal schedule here in PA.). sure they might work some but no teacher i have ever met has worked a 5 or 4 day work schedule each week in during that time frame. and that doesn't even include vacation days they also get during their regular 10 month stint.

i'm not trying to put down teachers and i hope i'm not coming across that way. what they do is great and no way would i ever do it for any age group but you have to factor in schedule, pensions, and health care when comparing compensation for teachers vs. others.

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.

the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.

i would imagine in CA or WA there are very few 5 or even a 4 day work weeks for teachers from mid-june to mid-august (normnal schedule here in PA.). sure they might work some but no teacher i have ever met has worked a 5 or 4 day work schedule each week in during that time frame. and that doesn't even include vacation days they also get during their regular 10 month stint.

i'm not trying to put down teachers and i hope i'm not coming across that way. what they do is great and no way would i ever do it for any age group but you have to factor in schedule, pensions, and health care when comparing compensation for teachers vs. others.

See Jeffs posts above.

I guess some places have it cushy. Certainly not all over. Certainly not out west.

Free

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.

the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.

My daughter is a special education teacher in WA, and she definitely doesn't have 2.5 months of Summer vacation. She is responsible for writing IEPs for each of the students who will be in her classroom, goes to workshops and conferences, etc... She might get a few weeks of needed downtime, but certainly not months. During the school year she is in by 6am and after getting home and having dinner she's back to work on lesson plans and grading until bedtime. She is absolutely overworked and underpaid, but loves the kids she works with.

Special Ed. teachers are the best and the hardest working by far. AND they go into the field for the right reasons. However, since working in a district, I have met 2 special Ed teachers who are in it for the wrong reasons and one is my daughter's teacher. Not happy! The other one has said he went into special Ed "for marketability". You can imagine the lack of respect I have for this douchebag.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.

well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.

the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.

i would imagine in CA or WA there are very few 5 or even a 4 day work weeks for teachers from mid-june to mid-august (normnal schedule here in PA.). sure they might work some but no teacher i have ever met has worked a 5 or 4 day work schedule each week in during that time frame. and that doesn't even include vacation days they also get during their regular 10 month stint.

i'm not trying to put down teachers and i hope i'm not coming across that way. what they do is great and no way would i ever do it for any age group but you have to factor in schedule, pensions, and health care when comparing compensation for teachers vs. others.

See Jeffs posts above.

I guess some places have it cushy. Certainly not all over. Certainly not out west.

also of the 52 weeks per year how many weeks does a teacher actually work 5 days a week? factor in spring break, Christmas break and sometimes fall breaks (for some districts) you are talking at least another 3 weeks that most professionals work that teachers are not scheduled to work. When you add it all up it's a lot of extra days off that most professionals would have to take vacation days to get.
not saying teachers don't work their asses off, many and most do but their time off is just way more than most other professions. not sure how this is debatable.

brianlux

Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?

unsung

Most deserve less.

Cliffy6745

Teacher's pay sucks. Increase salary, get rid of tenure, and compensate based on performance. Just like any other successful industry.

Free

brianlux said:

Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?

Common core and politicizing education fails our kids. There is an over abundance of teachers looking for jobs in NY w/ several hundred applications for one position @ my district alone. Not kidding. They know the frills, tenure and good pay and don't want to go to another state because they're not in it for the right reasons, they're in it for good pay here.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?

how can you deny the time off teachers get is not greater? my local school district teachers get 3 weeks off DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR that other professions don't get (and that doesn't include 'in-service days' and their own vacation days) . that doesn't even include whatever they get off in the summer. at the bare minimum teachers get a full month off and closer to two months scheduled days off that regular professionals don't get. again it's not debatable. those are facts.

no one has said it's easy to do. i don't think people are going into the field because who wants to deal with other people kids and parents.

there are a myriad of reasons why our education is lagging at this time and teachers salaries are far down the list of why.

unsung

They have become indoctrination artists instead of teachers. They have political agendas.

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?

how can you deny the time off teachers get is not greater? my local school district teachers get 3 weeks off DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR that other professions don't get (and that doesn't include 'in-service days' and their own vacation days) . that doesn't even include whatever they get off in the summer. at the bare minimum teachers get a full month off and closer to two months scheduled days off that regular professionals don't get. again it's not debatable. those are facts.

no one has said it's easy to do. i don't think people are going into the field because who wants to deal with other people kids and parents.

there are a myriad of reasons why our education is lagging at this time and teachers salaries are far down the list of why.

Shit man, I dunno know. I must be living on another planet?

ummmm, 'cause I've done it?

I'm so happy for the teachers you know who get all this time off. It must be nice!

Moving on...