Something about teacher's pay...

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?

I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 

But you work outside of the classes you're having?

mcgruff10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?

I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 

But you work outside of the classes you're having?

Yeah of course. I have no clue how many hours  week. 

brianlux

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?

I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 

But you work outside of the classes you're having?

Yeah of course. I have no clue how many hours  week. 

Exactly!  This is the thing i think some people are missing.  It's not like the bell rings and you're done for the day.  And good teachers (and I have no doubt you are a good one, McG) care about their students to the point where it's hard to check out of work mode.  You go home and read and grade papers, etc. but you also spend time mulling over how to help that student who may be having some emotional trauma at home or how to get that angry rebellious kid to focus that energy on something creative or how to get that wall flower to open up a little.  It's not like you just go home and forget about it all.

Jason P

OffSheGoes35 said:

  

thats is the stuff!  Makes velveeta seem like 10 year aged sharp cheddar from a dairy in Wisconsin.  (I still ate it)

OffSheGoes35

I was so poor I thought it was good cheese! Lol
Always thought the butter sucked though. 

cincybearcat

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?

I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  

$70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.

Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?

Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.

I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.

jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.

Well then let's just say this (from my experience as a teacher in my corner of the world):

1. It doesn't equate to $93,000 for 12 months. It's $70,000 for the year- paid over 10 or 12 months. You could do that silly math for any job to make it appear to be sweeter than what it truly is. 

2. Teachers don't work 9 months of the year. If you compared their work year to, say, shift workers... they work more: shift workers typically work something like 4 on and 4 off (so half the year, or 183 days). Teachers are contracted for 185 days.

3. As documented, teachers don't make 70,000 per year until they've taught for 10 years. So, typically speaking, after going in debt to attend school for a minimum of five years and forgoing any income opportunity for those five years as well... they enter the work force making 50,000 per year (in my area). If you can add... it's after 15 years of training and experience, they make $80,000. 

Remember that only 50% of teachers get to their 10th year (although this number varies depending on area). I've seen a lot of really good teachers leave the profession.

4. For some reason, you're reluctant to admit your profession and it's slightly amusing you haven't.

What shift workers do you know that work 4 on and 4 off 8 hours a day?

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?

I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 

But you work outside of the classes you're having?

Yeah of course. I have no clue how many hours  week. 

Exactly!  This is the thing i think some people are missing.  It's not like the bell rings and you're done for the day.  And good teachers (and I have no doubt you are a good one, McG) care about their students to the point where it's hard to check out of work mode.  You go home and read and grade papers, etc. but you also spend time mulling over how to help that student who may be having some emotional trauma at home or how to get that angry rebellious kid to focus that energy on something creative or how to get that wall flower to open up a little.  It's not like you just go home and forget about it all.

Do you think other non-teacher jobs aren’t like this? You think you leave and your work is always done? Please

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?

I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  

$70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.

Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?

Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.

I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.

jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.

Well then let's just say this (from my experience as a teacher in my corner of the world):

1. It doesn't equate to $93,000 for 12 months. It's $70,000 for the year- paid over 10 or 12 months. You could do that silly math for any job to make it appear to be sweeter than what it truly is. 

2. Teachers don't work 9 months of the year. If you compared their work year to, say, shift workers... they work more: shift workers typically work something like 4 on and 4 off (so half the year, or 183 days). Teachers are contracted for 185 days.

3. As documented, teachers don't make 70,000 per year until they've taught for 10 years. So, typically speaking, after going in debt to attend school for a minimum of five years and forgoing any income opportunity for those five years as well... they enter the work force making 50,000 per year (in my area). If you can add... it's after 15 years of training and experience, they make $80,000. 

Remember that only 50% of teachers get to their 10th year (although this number varies depending on area). I've seen a lot of really good teachers leave the profession.

4. For some reason, you're reluctant to admit your profession and it's slightly amusing you haven't.

What shift workers do you know that work 4 on and 4 off 8 hours a day?

The mill where my father worked and it's 12 hours a day (I never said 8). And many in different industries such as our local mines (2 nights and 2 days).

cincybearcat

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?

I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  

$70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.

Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?

Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.

I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.

jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.

Well then let's just say this (from my experience as a teacher in my corner of the world):

1. It doesn't equate to $93,000 for 12 months. It's $70,000 for the year- paid over 10 or 12 months. You could do that silly math for any job to make it appear to be sweeter than what it truly is. 

2. Teachers don't work 9 months of the year. If you compared their work year to, say, shift workers... they work more: shift workers typically work something like 4 on and 4 off (so half the year, or 183 days). Teachers are contracted for 185 days.

3. As documented, teachers don't make 70,000 per year until they've taught for 10 years. So, typically speaking, after going in debt to attend school for a minimum of five years and forgoing any income opportunity for those five years as well... they enter the work force making 50,000 per year (in my area). If you can add... it's after 15 years of training and experience, they make $80,000. 

Remember that only 50% of teachers get to their 10th year (although this number varies depending on area). I've seen a lot of really good teachers leave the profession.

4. For some reason, you're reluctant to admit your profession and it's slightly amusing you haven't.

What shift workers do you know that work 4 on and 4 off 8 hours a day?

The mill where my father worked and it's 12 hours a day (I never said 8). And many in different industries such as our local mines (2 nights and 2 days).

The technician shift workers that work where I do - work 12 hours shifts as well...sometimes OT. There are a few different schedules in the different areas, but none get an equal number of days off as days on. And since they work 12 hours already, OT basically means extra days. The do get paid for their OT though of course.

I 

cincybearcat

Oh and as far as working days, for regular M-F employees, it’s 261 days. Then you take away holidays (this will vary) and vacation (again varies) but for example mine would be 11 & 23. So 227 working days.  And they certainly aren’t a straight 8. Average at least 10 hours a day most likely.

So based on your 185 day for teachers, they are getting an extra 42 days off each year. Now I know they will work some of those, but no way it’s 42 days.  That’s 2 months of work days.

Now don’t get me wrong, teacher in some areas, even some whole states are drastically underpaid. The biggest way to judge is retention rate and teacher quality.  And teachers shouldn’t have to spend their own $ on basic classroom items. We need to fund education better in a lot of places. But in a lot of areas, I don’t think trying to argue teachers are underpaid is a really great argument. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?

I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  

$70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.

Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?

Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.

I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.

jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.

Well then let's just say this (from my experience as a teacher in my corner of the world):

1. It doesn't equate to $93,000 for 12 months. It's $70,000 for the year- paid over 10 or 12 months. You could do that silly math for any job to make it appear to be sweeter than what it truly is. 

2. Teachers don't work 9 months of the year. If you compared their work year to, say, shift workers... they work more: shift workers typically work something like 4 on and 4 off (so half the year, or 183 days). Teachers are contracted for 185 days.

3. As documented, teachers don't make 70,000 per year until they've taught for 10 years. So, typically speaking, after going in debt to attend school for a minimum of five years and forgoing any income opportunity for those five years as well... they enter the work force making 50,000 per year (in my area). If you can add... it's after 15 years of training and experience, they make $80,000. 

Remember that only 50% of teachers get to their 10th year (although this number varies depending on area). I've seen a lot of really good teachers leave the profession.

4. For some reason, you're reluctant to admit your profession and it's slightly amusing you haven't.

What shift workers do you know that work 4 on and 4 off 8 hours a day?

The mill where my father worked and it's 12 hours a day (I never said 8). And many in different industries such as our local mines (2 nights and 2 days).

The technician shift workers that work where I do - work 12 hours shifts as well...sometimes OT. There are a few different schedules in the different areas, but none get an equal number of days off as days on. And since they work 12 hours already, OT basically means extra days. The do get paid for their OT though of course.

I 

I'm not saying they are underworked. And their work is dangerous as well- we had two deaths last year at our mill. I'm very much in favour of paying shift workers in the resource industry very well.

I'm just tired of the really old argument that teachers 'do nothing'. It's utter nonsense. 

When I got into teaching, the job conditions were awesome: great pay and benefits. Starting wage was $40,000 and houses were $70,000. Inflation hit. Now, 23 years later, the starting wage is $50,000 and houses are $400,000 (no shit). Say nothing of the cost of everything else: gas, food, liquor, taxes, insurance, utilities, entertainment, etc.

I made a really smart decision about a decade ago and invested in real estate to try and get ahead somewhat. If I had left it to my profession to take care of me, my family and I would be mired in debt (we still are to some degree).

We are experiencing shortages now- it was inevitable. There's a reason for this. It makes very little economic sense to spend five years (minimum) in university- where you go in debt and earn no money- to enter a job that pays you $50,000 (with $2,000 intervals every year). If you worked at a somewhat menial job and earned $40,000 per year instead of spending $10,000 at university... at the end of five years one would be ahead $250,000.

* And don't get me wrong: I love working with kids- I've had a great career so far and they'd never know my growing disappointment with how we have denigrated the profession. My day with them is a blast. My enjoyment and enthusiasm for my job shouldn't be viewed as compensation though.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

Oh and as far as working days, for regular M-F employees, it’s 261 days. Then you take away holidays (this will vary) and vacation (again varies) but for example mine would be 11 & 23. So 227 working days.  And they certainly aren’t a straight 8. Average at least 10 hours a day most likely.

So based on your 185 day for teachers, they are getting an extra 42 days off each year. Now I know they will work some of those, but no way it’s 42 days.  That’s 2 months of work days.

Now don’t get me wrong, teacher in some areas, even some whole states are drastically underpaid. The biggest way to judge is retention rate and teacher quality.  And teachers shouldn’t have to spend their own $ on basic classroom items. We need to fund education better in a lot of places. But in a lot of areas, I don’t think trying to argue teachers are underpaid is a really great argument. 

Okay so now we get into credentials, the work being done,  and all those other things.

I can tell you that above teaching, I coach. I do this for free- I get zero compensation for it. One year, an administrator challenged me saying, "A good teacher puts in more time than a coach." So I calculated the time I spent 'volunteering' as a coach throughout a school year. No exaggeration: it was 900 hours. Multiple nights on the road. Daily practices. Games. Travel. Christmas Break practices. Off season conditioning programs. Morning 'Shot Doctors". Summer Team Camp at Gonzaga.

900 hours is an extra 112 8am-4pm work days.

I'm done with this barring something obscene returned to me. If you feel teachers are underworked then feel free to.

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?

I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 

But you work outside of the classes you're having?

Yeah of course. I have no clue how many hours  week. 

Exactly!  This is the thing i think some people are missing.  It's not like the bell rings and you're done for the day.  And good teachers (and I have no doubt you are a good one, McG) care about their students to the point where it's hard to check out of work mode.  You go home and read and grade papers, etc. but you also spend time mulling over how to help that student who may be having some emotional trauma at home or how to get that angry rebellious kid to focus that energy on something creative or how to get that wall flower to open up a little.  It's not like you just go home and forget about it all.

Do you think other non-teacher jobs aren’t like this? You think you leave and your work is always done? Please

Oh, there are other jobs that have this in come too, for sure.  Counselors/ therapists, without a doubt.  But I've had other jobs where, other than the odd day where something out of the ordinary happened, I didn't think about it much or, even less often, have work related tasks that I had to take home and work on.  With teachers, that's pretty much an everyday deal and many weekends as well.

mcgruff10

cincybearcat said:

Oh and as far as working days, for regular M-F employees, it’s 261 days. Then you take away holidays (this will vary) and vacation (again varies) but for example mine would be 11 & 23. So 227 working days.  And they certainly aren’t a straight 8. Average at least 10 hours a day most likely.

So based on your 185 day for teachers, they are getting an extra 42 days off each year. Now I know they will work some of those, but no way it’s 42 days.  That’s 2 months of work days.

Now don’t get me wrong, teacher in some areas, even some whole states are drastically underpaid. The biggest way to judge is retention rate and teacher quality.  And teachers shouldn’t have to spend their own $ on basic classroom items. We need to fund education better in a lot of places. But in a lot of areas, I don’t think trying to argue teachers are underpaid is a really great argument. 

so you get almost 5 weeks paid vacation a year on top of bankers holidays?  nice.  What about sick days?
what is your profession?
How long have you been doing your job?
What is your salary?

I just want to see if you are over or underpaid.

cincybearcat

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Oh and as far as working days, for regular M-F employees, it’s 261 days. Then you take away holidays (this will vary) and vacation (again varies) but for example mine would be 11 & 23. So 227 working days.  And they certainly aren’t a straight 8. Average at least 10 hours a day most likely.

So based on your 185 day for teachers, they are getting an extra 42 days off each year. Now I know they will work some of those, but no way it’s 42 days.  That’s 2 months of work days.

Now don’t get me wrong, teacher in some areas, even some whole states are drastically underpaid. The biggest way to judge is retention rate and teacher quality.  And teachers shouldn’t have to spend their own $ on basic classroom items. We need to fund education better in a lot of places. But in a lot of areas, I don’t think trying to argue teachers are underpaid is a really great argument. 

Okay so now we get into credentials, the work being done,  and all those other things.

I can tell you that above teaching, I coach. I do this for free- I get zero compensation for it. One year, an administrator challenged me saying, "A good teacher puts in more time than a coach." So I calculated the time I spent 'volunteering' as a coach throughout a school year. No exaggeration: it was 900 hours. Multiple nights on the road. Daily practices. Games. Travel. Christmas Break practices. Off season conditioning programs. Morning 'Shot Doctors". Summer Team Camp at Gonzaga.

900 hours is an extra 112 8am-4pm work days.

I'm done with this barring something obscene returned to me. If you feel teachers are underworked then feel free to.

I didn’t say they were underworked.  The days off are part of their benefit package.  I am saying that in a lot of cases their total compensation is equal to the work. Not overpaid, not under worked. 

Are you trying to say that other people that work and aren’t teacher don’t coach their kids or do other things outside of work? I personally don’t think that’s a very good argument.

cincybearcat

By the way what’s a 8-4 workday???! I don’t understand that. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Oh and as far as working days, for regular M-F employees, it’s 261 days. Then you take away holidays (this will vary) and vacation (again varies) but for example mine would be 11 & 23. So 227 working days.  And they certainly aren’t a straight 8. Average at least 10 hours a day most likely.

So based on your 185 day for teachers, they are getting an extra 42 days off each year. Now I know they will work some of those, but no way it’s 42 days.  That’s 2 months of work days.

Now don’t get me wrong, teacher in some areas, even some whole states are drastically underpaid. The biggest way to judge is retention rate and teacher quality.  And teachers shouldn’t have to spend their own $ on basic classroom items. We need to fund education better in a lot of places. But in a lot of areas, I don’t think trying to argue teachers are underpaid is a really great argument. 

Okay so now we get into credentials, the work being done,  and all those other things.

I can tell you that above teaching, I coach. I do this for free- I get zero compensation for it. One year, an administrator challenged me saying, "A good teacher puts in more time than a coach." So I calculated the time I spent 'volunteering' as a coach throughout a school year. No exaggeration: it was 900 hours. Multiple nights on the road. Daily practices. Games. Travel. Christmas Break practices. Off season conditioning programs. Morning 'Shot Doctors". Summer Team Camp at Gonzaga.

900 hours is an extra 112 8am-4pm work days.

I'm done with this barring something obscene returned to me. If you feel teachers are underworked then feel free to.

I didn’t say they were underworked.  The days off are part of their benefit package.  I am saying that in a lot of cases their total compensation is equal to the work. Not overpaid, not under worked. 

Are you trying to say that other people that work and aren’t teacher don’t coach their kids or do other things outside of work? I personally don’t think that’s a very good argument.

Oh, I do that too like 'other' people- coaching 'my' kids youth soccer teams. That doesn't count. Showing up for 'my' kid.

I've spent my career coaching 'other' people's kids so it's not the same thing.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

By the way what’s a 8-4 workday???! I don’t understand that. 

cincybearcat said:

By the way what’s a 8-4 workday???! I don’t understand that. 

A typical day at the school for a teacher.

cincybearcat

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Oh and as far as working days, for regular M-F employees, it’s 261 days. Then you take away holidays (this will vary) and vacation (again varies) but for example mine would be 11 & 23. So 227 working days.  And they certainly aren’t a straight 8. Average at least 10 hours a day most likely.

So based on your 185 day for teachers, they are getting an extra 42 days off each year. Now I know they will work some of those, but no way it’s 42 days.  That’s 2 months of work days.

Now don’t get me wrong, teacher in some areas, even some whole states are drastically underpaid. The biggest way to judge is retention rate and teacher quality.  And teachers shouldn’t have to spend their own $ on basic classroom items. We need to fund education better in a lot of places. But in a lot of areas, I don’t think trying to argue teachers are underpaid is a really great argument. 

Okay so now we get into credentials, the work being done,  and all those other things.

I can tell you that above teaching, I coach. I do this for free- I get zero compensation for it. One year, an administrator challenged me saying, "A good teacher puts in more time than a coach." So I calculated the time I spent 'volunteering' as a coach throughout a school year. No exaggeration: it was 900 hours. Multiple nights on the road. Daily practices. Games. Travel. Christmas Break practices. Off season conditioning programs. Morning 'Shot Doctors". Summer Team Camp at Gonzaga.

900 hours is an extra 112 8am-4pm work days.

I'm done with this barring something obscene returned to me. If you feel teachers are underworked then feel free to.

I didn’t say they were underworked.  The days off are part of their benefit package.  I am saying that in a lot of cases their total compensation is equal to the work. Not overpaid, not under worked. 

Are you trying to say that other people that work and aren’t teacher don’t coach their kids or do other things outside of work? I personally don’t think that’s a very good argument.

Oh, I do that too like 'other' people- coaching 'my' kids youth soccer teams. That doesn't count. Showing up for 'my' kid.

I've spent my career coaching 'other' people's kids so it's not the same thing.

Oh ok I think I understand what you are saying. Yeah I would be in favor of compensation for those positions. It’s a job.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

Oh and as far as working days, for regular M-F employees, it’s 261 days. Then you take away holidays (this will vary) and vacation (again varies) but for example mine would be 11 & 23. So 227 working days.  And they certainly aren’t a straight 8. Average at least 10 hours a day most likely.

So based on your 185 day for teachers, they are getting an extra 42 days off each year. Now I know they will work some of those, but no way it’s 42 days.  That’s 2 months of work days.

Now don’t get me wrong, teacher in some areas, even some whole states are drastically underpaid. The biggest way to judge is retention rate and teacher quality.  And teachers shouldn’t have to spend their own $ on basic classroom items. We need to fund education better in a lot of places. But in a lot of areas, I don’t think trying to argue teachers are underpaid is a really great argument. 

Okay so now we get into credentials, the work being done,  and all those other things.

I can tell you that above teaching, I coach. I do this for free- I get zero compensation for it. One year, an administrator challenged me saying, "A good teacher puts in more time than a coach." So I calculated the time I spent 'volunteering' as a coach throughout a school year. No exaggeration: it was 900 hours. Multiple nights on the road. Daily practices. Games. Travel. Christmas Break practices. Off season conditioning programs. Morning 'Shot Doctors". Summer Team Camp at Gonzaga.

900 hours is an extra 112 8am-4pm work days.

I'm done with this barring something obscene returned to me. If you feel teachers are underworked then feel free to.

I didn’t say they were underworked.  The days off are part of their benefit package.  I am saying that in a lot of cases their total compensation is equal to the work. Not overpaid, not under worked. 

Are you trying to say that other people that work and aren’t teacher don’t coach their kids or do other things outside of work? I personally don’t think that’s a very good argument.

Oh, I do that too like 'other' people- coaching 'my' kids youth soccer teams. That doesn't count. Showing up for 'my' kid.

I've spent my career coaching 'other' people's kids so it's not the same thing.

Oh ok I think I understand what you are saying. Yeah I would be in favor of compensation for those positions. It’s a job.

Okay we're cool.

Remember... I wasn't pushing for compensation as much as I was trying to illustrate the 'days worked' or 'hours worked' is tough to gauge for a teacher. It's too challenging to try and compare it to other professions where the work is more measurable.

And lastly... as in all occupations... I also recognize there are poorly performing teachers. These poorer workers cannot be the universally accepted 'norm' when picturing a teacher. I'm in the camp that supports accountability (even though that is challenging in itself). I can honestly say the large majority of teachers truly care and work hard to service their students. Some are absolutely wonderful with kids and couldn't be more valuable to society.