I was asking my friend, who's a Bosnian Muslim, about the hijab the other day and I was saying to her how we find such aspects hard to understand. I think it's important to remember that we cannot judge all Muslims by the actions of a relatively tiny percentage, no matter how terrible the deeds. We talked a bit about the general perception of Islam and these were just some of her thoughts.
'Most muslims are decent, warm, peaceful people.. A few bad eggs...and the whole religion is typecast. We don't consider the extremists to be muslim for their actions are not justifiable. Sadly the media is to blame a lot i think.'
It's the same thing with Christian extremists, but the difference with them is that the general public accepts the notion that they aren't representing Christianity because most of us in the U.S. have a lot of familiarity with the religion. When a Christian extremist kills someone, we attribute their motivations to something else and find a different label for them.
This has come up before.
The Christian extremists are cupcakes compared to Islamic extremists. It's not even remotely close... and I am as critical of Christianity as anyone on these boards (see recent posts in the last pages of this thread).
The Crusades don't count- too many centuries ago. The occasional abortion clinic bombing is legitimate- but so infrequent that the event is hardly alarming. And capitalist ventures such as the US one in the Middle East are not in the name of religion- as much as some want to categorize such as so given their agenda they are trying to promote (and that you might have been alluding to with your last sentence).
So... exactly what Christian crimes compare to the Islamic terrorist events we continually hear about ( including the ones that- as PJSoul would suggest- we don't care about)?
Whenever I make this point, people always respond with saying that Muslim terrorists are way more of a threat than Christian terrorists. My point isn't to compare the level of threat between the two, but to look at how we talk about the two groups, how the media covers it, and how we then subsequently respond to the two groups. McVeigh killed 168, but how is this Christian terrorist talked about?
Because there aren't 200,000 mcveighs forming a caliphate in several countries throwing gay people off the roof and beheading people from different religions. Radical Christianity doesn't remotely exist at the same levels as radical Islam. Islamic terrorism is not isolated but expected. Nobody is expecting a white guy from Mississippi to blow up a federal building. And if they do they don't say God be Praised before they do it because it isn't motivated by their interprtation of the Bible. That is why!
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.
Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
The problem with "See something say something" is we've become too PC and no one wants to offend anyone else. Especially after examples of that kid bringing a home made clock to school and sued for millions and people who reported it were heavily criticized and disciplined. So what happened next? The San Bernardino shooting happened where multiple neighbors said they saw suspicious activity but were afraid of saying something because they didn't want to be labeled racist and be sued for harassment. What if that homemade clock turned out to be a bomb, how much more angry would everyone have been if they didn't say anything? But that didn't matter, the DOJ accused the staff of being racist and discrimination. That's why people don't say anything, then we blame them when they don't.
I was asking my friend, who's a Bosnian Muslim, about the hijab the other day and I was saying to her how we find such aspects hard to understand. I think it's important to remember that we cannot judge all Muslims by the actions of a relatively tiny percentage, no matter how terrible the deeds. We talked a bit about the general perception of Islam and these were just some of her thoughts.
'Most muslims are decent, warm, peaceful people.. A few bad eggs...and the whole religion is typecast. We don't consider the extremists to be muslim for their actions are not justifiable. Sadly the media is to blame a lot i think.'
It's the same thing with Christian extremists, but the difference with them is that the general public accepts the notion that they aren't representing Christianity because most of us in the U.S. have a lot of familiarity with the religion. When a Christian extremist kills someone, we attribute their motivations to something else and find a different label for them.
Exactly, we all grew up with a general understanding of Christianity. We don't really have a proper understanding of Islam, I certainly don't anyway. As usual, we fear and distrust what we don't understand. Instead of just condemning the notion of wearing a hijab and deciding it could only be a sign of repression, I asked about it and tried to better understand it. As a result, I don't regard it with the same suspicion and unease that I did before
I think about how long I would live or remain free in most Muslim countries preaching Christianity, women's rights or gay rights on a street corner and it is a good reminder that Islam is either understood well by the West or the vast majority of Muslims or their governments aren't practicing it right.
I was asking my friend, who's a Bosnian Muslim, about the hijab the other day and I was saying to her how we find such aspects hard to understand. I think it's important to remember that we cannot judge all Muslims by the actions of a relatively tiny percentage, no matter how terrible the deeds. We talked a bit about the general perception of Islam and these were just some of her thoughts.
'Most muslims are decent, warm, peaceful people.. A few bad eggs...and the whole religion is typecast. We don't consider the extremists to be muslim for their actions are not justifiable. Sadly the media is to blame a lot i think.'
It's the same thing with Christian extremists, but the difference with them is that the general public accepts the notion that they aren't representing Christianity because most of us in the U.S. have a lot of familiarity with the religion. When a Christian extremist kills someone, we attribute their motivations to something else and find a different label for them.
This has come up before.
The Christian extremists are cupcakes compared to Islamic extremists. It's not even remotely close... and I am as critical of Christianity as anyone on these boards (see recent posts in the last pages of this thread).
The Crusades don't count- too many centuries ago. The occasional abortion clinic bombing is legitimate- but so infrequent that the event is hardly alarming. And capitalist ventures such as the US one in the Middle East are not in the name of religion- as much as some want to categorize such as so given their agenda they are trying to promote (and that you might have been alluding to with your last sentence).
So... exactly what Christian crimes compare to the Islamic terrorist events we continually hear about ( including the ones that- as PJSoul would suggest- we don't care about)?
Whenever I make this point, people always respond with saying that Muslim terrorists are way more of a threat than Christian terrorists. My point isn't to compare the level of threat between the two, but to look at how we talk about the two groups, how the media covers it, and how we then subsequently respond to the two groups. McVeigh killed 168, but how is this Christian terrorist talked about?
McVeigh wasn't motivated by the bible. He was anti-government. Not a good example.
Agree. The Radical Muslim terrorist kill in the name of their god- Fort Hood, 9/11, Boston, Orlando, San Bernardino, the axe guy in NYC and probably many more all shouted praise to Allah while killing. I cant recall a single incident in recent history where a mass shooting/killing was done in the name of the Christian god-yes maybe some have been Christians, but they didn't claim to do it for their god or religion.
Christian extremists how a better record for drinking the Kool-Aide and killing themselves than killing others for their cause-which isn't much to be proud of either.
According to a research at Uppsala university more than half of the death victims right now in the world is directly connected with militant Islamists, jihadism.
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.
Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...
The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We have and it has worked.
How so?
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.
Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...
The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).
No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..
Tell that to the families of the thousands that are killed by guns in the good ole USA. We're a Christian nation. Christian nation that cherishes right to buy military style weapons that were used in this killing.
God and guns and hate. USA USA USA.
Can deflect about other countries and cultures but we created a mess.
Then we have racist baiting presidential republican nominee!?!?!?!?
I was asking my friend, who's a Bosnian Muslim, about the hijab the other day and I was saying to her how we find such aspects hard to understand. I think it's important to remember that we cannot judge all Muslims by the actions of a relatively tiny percentage, no matter how terrible the deeds. We talked a bit about the general perception of Islam and these were just some of her thoughts.
'Most muslims are decent, warm, peaceful people.. A few bad eggs...and the whole religion is typecast. We don't consider the extremists to be muslim for their actions are not justifiable. Sadly the media is to blame a lot i think.'
It's the same thing with Christian extremists, but the difference with them is that the general public accepts the notion that they aren't representing Christianity because most of us in the U.S. have a lot of familiarity with the religion. When a Christian extremist kills someone, we attribute their motivations to something else and find a different label for them.
This has come up before.
The Christian extremists are cupcakes compared to Islamic extremists. It's not even remotely close... and I am as critical of Christianity as anyone on these boards (see recent posts in the last pages of this thread).
The Crusades don't count- too many centuries ago. The occasional abortion clinic bombing is legitimate- but so infrequent that the event is hardly alarming. And capitalist ventures such as the US one in the Middle East are not in the name of religion- as much as some want to categorize such as so given their agenda they are trying to promote (and that you might have been alluding to with your last sentence).
So... exactly what Christian crimes compare to the Islamic terrorist events we continually hear about ( including the ones that- as PJSoul would suggest- we don't care about)?
Whenever I make this point, people always respond with saying that Muslim terrorists are way more of a threat than Christian terrorists. My point isn't to compare the level of threat between the two, but to look at how we talk about the two groups, how the media covers it, and how we then subsequently respond to the two groups. McVeigh killed 168, but how is this Christian terrorist talked about?
McVeigh wasn't motivated by the bible. He was anti-government. Not a good example.
Agree. The Radical Muslim terrorist kill in the name of their god- Fort Hood, 9/11, Boston, Orlando, San Bernardino, the axe guy in NYC and probably many more all shouted praise to Allah while killing. I cant recall a single incident in recent history where a mass shooting/killing was done in the name of the Christian god-yes maybe some have been Christians, but they didn't claim to do it for their god or religion.
Christian extremists how a better record for drinking the Kool-Aide and killing themselves than killing others for their cause-which isn't much to be proud of either.
IRAQ!!!!!!
Why many Christians supported the war. Christians have killed 100 times the muslims as Muslims have killed Christians. But let's not let facts get in the way of realities.
According to a research at Uppsala university more than half of the death victims right now in the world is directly connected with militant Islamists, jihadism.
I was asking my friend, who's a Bosnian Muslim, about the hijab the other day and I was saying to her how we find such aspects hard to understand. I think it's important to remember that we cannot judge all Muslims by the actions of a relatively tiny percentage, no matter how terrible the deeds. We talked a bit about the general perception of Islam and these were just some of her thoughts.
'Most muslims are decent, warm, peaceful people.. A few bad eggs...and the whole religion is typecast. We don't consider the extremists to be muslim for their actions are not justifiable. Sadly the media is to blame a lot i think.'
It's the same thing with Christian extremists, but the difference with them is that the general public accepts the notion that they aren't representing Christianity because most of us in the U.S. have a lot of familiarity with the religion. When a Christian extremist kills someone, we attribute their motivations to something else and find a different label for them.
This has come up before.
The Christian extremists are cupcakes compared to Islamic extremists. It's not even remotely close... and I am as critical of Christianity as anyone on these boards (see recent posts in the last pages of this thread).
The Crusades don't count- too many centuries ago. The occasional abortion clinic bombing is legitimate- but so infrequent that the event is hardly alarming. And capitalist ventures such as the US one in the Middle East are not in the name of religion- as much as some want to categorize such as so given their agenda they are trying to promote (and that you might have been alluding to with your last sentence).
So... exactly what Christian crimes compare to the Islamic terrorist events we continually hear about ( including the ones that- as PJSoul would suggest- we don't care about)?
Whenever I make this point, people always respond with saying that Muslim terrorists are way more of a threat than Christian terrorists. My point isn't to compare the level of threat between the two, but to look at how we talk about the two groups, how the media covers it, and how we then subsequently respond to the two groups. McVeigh killed 168, but how is this Christian terrorist talked about?
McVeigh wasn't motivated by the bible. He was anti-government. Not a good example.
Agree. The Radical Muslim terrorist kill in the name of their god- Fort Hood, 9/11, Boston, Orlando, San Bernardino, the axe guy in NYC and probably many more all shouted praise to Allah while killing. I cant recall a single incident in recent history where a mass shooting/killing was done in the name of the Christian god-yes maybe some have been Christians, but they didn't claim to do it for their god or religion.
Christian extremists how a better record for drinking the Kool-Aide and killing themselves than killing others for their cause-which isn't much to be proud of either.
IRAQ!!!!!!
Why many Christians supported the war. Christians have killed 100 times the muslims as Muslims have killed Christians. But let's not let facts get in the way of realities.
true point, why christian priests on opposing sides yet same religion were praying for their veterans in their own country to be defeated so christians killing christians in the same faith on opposing sides and it has not changed....what hypocrisy God is not a God of disorder it really defines who is really righteous and does not take part in these warfares according to the later versus of the bible '' turn their swords into plowshears''
According to a research at Uppsala university more than half of the death victims right now in the world is directly connected with militant Islamists, jihadism.
Again Iraq. US and our western allies killed 100's of thousands of Muslims and created the mess we have there.
Many in the "west" was also against the war in Iraq. Sometimes a "few" politics make horrendous decisions draging everyone along that don't want anything to do with it. I was one of those protesting against that war.
A gun shop owner reported Mateen to the authorities a few weeks before the shooting when mateen tried to purchase weapons and armor. This is sounding more like the government vetting system dropped the ball.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.
Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...
The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).
No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.
Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
The problem with "See something say something" is we've become too PC and no one wants to offend anyone else. Especially after examples of that kid bringing a home made clock to school and sued for millions and people who reported it were heavily criticized and disciplined. So what happened next? The San Bernardino shooting happened where multiple neighbors said they saw suspicious activity but were afraid of saying something because they didn't want to be labeled racist and be sued for harassment. What if that homemade clock turned out to be a bomb, how much more angry would everyone have been if they didn't say anything? But that didn't matter, the DOJ accused the staff of being racist and discrimination. That's why people don't say anything, then we blame them when they don't.
That's an interesting point and certainly valid. I was thinking more about the need for the Muslim community to speak up and point law enforcement towards the potential perps. I wasn't thinking about it from the non-Muslim view. The Imans and leaders of the communities likely know who is at risk of becoming radicalized. They need to become more involved and not just say the right words afterwards. Perhaps they do. We don't know because we only see when something happens, not when something is thwarted.
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I think the lone shooters are going to be nearly impossible to stop.
Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together
edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I watched that gal on the news last night, she accused him of being gay and said his father told him once he is gay then runs of a tangent about how afraid she was......the cops believe she was aware of the whole thing and didn't say a word till he got whacked.
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.
Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...
The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).
No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..
Tell that to the families of the thousands that are killed by guns in the good ole USA. We're a Christian nation. Christian nation that cherishes right to buy military style weapons that were used in this killing.
God and guns and hate. USA USA USA.
Can deflect about other countries and cultures but we created a mess.
Then we have racist baiting presidential republican nominee!?!?!?!?
USA USA USA.
Horrible argument. As goofy as some of GF's, but from the other side of the spectrum. Just terrible.
The USA is a mixed bag. It is not a Christian nation. Are you Christian?
The Middle East occupation is about oil and capitalism is at its roots. Period. There's a little piece of it tied to the US relations with Saudi (again oil and profit related). But to say it's Christians that have rallied to fight opponents of the bible is ridiculous.
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.
Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...
The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).
No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..
Tell that to the families of the thousands that are killed by guns in the good ole USA. We're a Christian nation. Christian nation that cherishes right to buy military style weapons that were used in this killing.
God and guns and hate. USA USA USA.
Can deflect about other countries and cultures but we created a mess.
Then we have racist baiting presidential republican nominee!?!?!?!?
USA USA USA.
Horrible argument. As goofy as some of GF's, but from the other side of the spectrum. Just terrible.
The USA is a mixed bag. It is not a Christian nation. Are you Christian?
The Middle East occupation is about oil and capitalism is at its roots. Period. There's a little piece of it tied to the US relations with Saudi (again oil and profit related). But to say it's Christians that have rallied to fight opponents of the bible is ridiculous.
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.
Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...
The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).
No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..
Tell that to the families of the thousands that are killed by guns in the good ole USA. We're a Christian nation. Christian nation that cherishes right to buy military style weapons that were used in this killing.
God and guns and hate. USA USA USA.
Can deflect about other countries and cultures but we created a mess.
Then we have racist baiting presidential republican nominee!?!?!?!?
USA USA USA.
Horrible argument. As goofy as some of GF's, but from the other side of the spectrum. Just terrible.
The USA is a mixed bag. It is not a Christian nation. Are you Christian?
The Middle East occupation is about oil and capitalism is at its roots. Period. There's a little piece of it tied to the US relations with Saudi (again oil and profit related). But to say it's Christians that have rallied to fight opponents of the bible is ridiculous.
A gun shop owner reported Mateen to the authorities a few weeks before the shooting when mateen tried to purchase weapons and armor. This is sounding more like the government vetting system dropped the ball.
I can only imagine how many reports they get. there's probably a whole shitload of people trying to buy that stuff because they think Obama is coming to get them (as illustrated in this thread and the gun thread).
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I watched that gal on the news last night, she accused him of being gay and said his father told him once he is gay then runs of a tangent about how afraid she was......the cops believe she was aware of the whole thing and didn't say a word till he got whacked.
Godfather.
You guys are confusing his ex-wife with his current wife. Been divorced from.the first wife for 7 or 8 years. Current wife appears to have been aware of an upcoming attack and didn't tell.anyone.
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I think the lone shooters are going to be nearly impossible to stop.
Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together
edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.
I think lone-shooter terrorism will continue to grow. It appears, to me, that psychos all over the world are pledging their allegiance to ISIS. It seems (and I could be totally wrong about this) that Al-Qaeda would train terrorists and send them out on missions. ISIS surly does this too. But I think ISIS has many "members" that really have no connection to them other than pledging allegiance. Was the Orlando shooter under orders of ISIS to do what he did? Has he ever met or communicated with an ISIS official? The answer doesn't really matter. He did what he did because of the influence of ISIS; be it directly or just because he believes in the message of ISIS.
This is why I support military action against ISIS. Another "war on terror" I suppose. If the influence by the leaders of ISIS is so strong that it's trickling down to everyday psychopaths, we've got to cut the head off the snake so to speak. How do we do that? Well that's where I have no clue.
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I watched that gal on the news last night, she accused him of being gay and said his father told him once he is gay then runs of a tangent about how afraid she was......the cops believe she was aware of the whole thing and didn't say a word till he got whacked.
Godfather.
You guys are confusing his ex-wife with his current wife. Been divorced from.the first wife for 7 or 8 years. Current wife appears to have been aware of an upcoming attack and didn't tell.anyone.
Get your facts straight
How irresponsible of her. Maybe she didn't think he would actually follow through? She is going to have a rough time explaining her reasoning in court.
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I think the lone shooters are going to be nearly impossible to stop.
Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together
edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.
I think lone-shooter terrorism will continue to grow. It appears, to me, that psychos all over the world are pledging their allegiance to ISIS. It seems (and I could be totally wrong about this) that Al-Qaeda would train terrorists and send them out on missions. ISIS surly does this too. But I think ISIS has many "members" that really have no connection to them other than pledging allegiance. Was the Orlando shooter under orders of ISIS to do what he did? Has he ever met or communicated with an ISIS official? The answer doesn't really matter. He did what he did because of the influence of ISIS; be it directly or just because he believes in the message of ISIS.
This is why I support military action against ISIS. Another "war on terror" I suppose. If the influence by the leaders of ISIS is so strong that it's trickling down to everyday psychopaths, we've got to cut the head off the snake so to speak. How do we do that? Well that's where I have no clue.
Your first and second paragraphs don't really jive for me. The fact that ISIS leadership is not instrumental in planning and coordinating attacks is evidence that military action won't have the desired effect. Unfortunately, ISIL, ISIS, Daesh, whatever you call it is a thing bigger than itself now, if we bomb away the current incarnation, it will pop up somewhere else. Lone shooters will continue to pledge their allegiance to the Islamic State even if the actual organization is decimated, and as long as there are even a handful of actual, on the ground participants, they will continue to claim credit for attacks they didn't orchestrate.
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I think the lone shooters are going to be nearly impossible to stop.
Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together
edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.
I think lone-shooter terrorism will continue to grow. It appears, to me, that psychos all over the world are pledging their allegiance to ISIS. It seems (and I could be totally wrong about this) that Al-Qaeda would train terrorists and send them out on missions. ISIS surly does this too. But I think ISIS has many "members" that really have no connection to them other than pledging allegiance. Was the Orlando shooter under orders of ISIS to do what he did? Has he ever met or communicated with an ISIS official? The answer doesn't really matter. He did what he did because of the influence of ISIS; be it directly or just because he believes in the message of ISIS.
This is why I support military action against ISIS. Another "war on terror" I suppose. If the influence by the leaders of ISIS is so strong that it's trickling down to everyday psychopaths, we've got to cut the head off the snake so to speak. How do we do that? Well that's where I have no clue.
Your first and second paragraphs don't really jive for me. The fact that ISIS leadership is not instrumental in planning and coordinating attacks is evidence that military action won't have the desired effect. Unfortunately, ISIL, ISIS, Daesh, whatever you call it is a thing bigger than itself now, if we bomb away the current incarnation, it will pop up somewhere else. Lone shooters will continue to pledge their allegiance to the Islamic State even if the actual organization is decimated, and as long as there are even a handful of actual, on the ground participants, they will continue to claim credit for attacks they didn't orchestrate.
GENEVA — Islamic State forces have committed genocide and other war crimes in a continuing effort to exterminate the Yazidi religious minority in Syria and Iraq, United Nations investigators said on Thursday, urging stronger international action to halt the killing and to prosecute the terrorist group.
The investigators detailed mass killings of Yazidi men and boys who refused to convert to Islam, saying they were shot in the head or their throats were slit, often in front of their families, littering roadsides with corpses. Dozens of mass graves have been uncovered in areas recaptured from Islamic State and are being investigated.
The investigators have produced 11 reports documenting wide-ranging crimes against humanity and war crimes committed by many parties to the five-year-old civil war in Syria, but in a report released on Thursday, they invoked the crime of genocide. They based their findings on actions taken by the Islamic State since August 2014 against 400,000 members of the Yazidi community, followers of a centuries-old religion drawing on many faiths.
Comments
What if that homemade clock turned out to be a bomb, how much more angry would everyone have been if they didn't say anything? But that didn't matter, the DOJ accused the staff of being racist and discrimination. That's why people don't say anything, then we blame them when they don't.
Christian extremists how a better record for drinking the Kool-Aide and killing themselves than killing others for their cause-which isn't much to be proud of either.
http://m.sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160615/1041373286/sweden-jihad-war-casualties.html
we will find a way, we will find our place
God and guns and hate. USA USA USA.
Can deflect about other countries and cultures but we created a mess.
Then we have racist baiting presidential republican nominee!?!?!?!?
USA USA USA.
Why many Christians supported the war. Christians have killed 100 times the muslims as Muslims have killed Christians. But let's not let facts get in the way of realities.
so christians killing christians in the same faith on opposing sides and it has not changed....what hypocrisy
God is not a God of disorder it really defines who is really righteous and does not take part in these warfares according to the later versus of the bible '' turn their swords into plowshears''
we will find a way, we will find our place
Godfather.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together
edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Godfather.
The USA is a mixed bag. It is not a Christian nation. Are you Christian?
The Middle East occupation is about oil and capitalism is at its roots. Period. There's a little piece of it tied to the US relations with Saudi (again oil and profit related). But to say it's Christians that have rallied to fight opponents of the bible is ridiculous.
Why do you gotta be that way?
HAYYYYYYY....I resemble that remark !
Godfather.
I thought you only skimmed posts!
hope all is well man.
Godfather.
www.headstonesband.com
Been divorced from.the first wife for 7 or 8 years.
Current wife appears to have been aware of an upcoming attack and didn't tell.anyone.
Get your facts straight
This is why I support military action against ISIS. Another "war on terror" I suppose. If the influence by the leaders of ISIS is so strong that it's trickling down to everyday psychopaths, we've got to cut the head off the snake so to speak. How do we do that? Well that's where I have no clue.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Godfather.
Unfortunately, ISIL, ISIS, Daesh, whatever you call it is a thing bigger than itself now, if we bomb away the current incarnation, it will pop up somewhere else. Lone shooters will continue to pledge their allegiance to the Islamic State even if the actual organization is decimated, and as long as there are even a handful of actual, on the ground participants, they will continue to claim credit for attacks they didn't orchestrate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/world/middleeast/isis-genocide-yazidi-un.html
GENEVA — Islamic State forces have committed genocide and other war crimes in a continuing effort to exterminate the Yazidi religious minority in Syria and Iraq, United Nations investigators said on Thursday, urging stronger international action to halt the killing and to prosecute the terrorist group.
The investigators detailed mass killings of Yazidi men and boys who refused to convert to Islam, saying they were shot in the head or their throats were slit, often in front of their families, littering roadsides with corpses. Dozens of mass graves have been uncovered in areas recaptured from Islamic State and are being investigated.
The investigators have produced 11 reports documenting wide-ranging crimes against humanity and war crimes committed by many parties to the five-year-old civil war in Syria, but in a report released on Thursday, they invoked the crime of genocide. They based their findings on actions taken by the Islamic State since August 2014 against 400,000 members of the Yazidi community, followers of a centuries-old religion drawing on many faiths.