Warren and Sanders Lead Probe Into 'Dangerous, Irresponsible' Aetna Ploy
Leading progressive U.S. senators are demanding Aetna come clean about its "questionable" decision to withdraw from the federal Affordable Care Act (ACA) health care exchanges after the Department of Justice (DOJ) challenged the company's proposed merger with Humana.
In a letter (pdf) sent Thursday to Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini, Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), and Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), probe the events that led up to last month's announcement that the insurance behemoth would pull out of 11 of the 15 states where it sells Obamacare plans.
One day after that announcement, it was revealed that Aetna had in fact directly threatened the federal government by vowing to pull out of the ACA if its proposed merger to Humana was not approved.
"Aetna's decision regarding its participation in the ACA exchanges appears to be an effort to pressure the Justice Department into approving a merger that the department has alleged violates antitrust law and has the potential to significantly harm consumers all across the country," the senators write in their letter.
They denounce such a ploy as "dangerous," "irresponsible," and "inexplicable."
"You must now answer to both your shareholders and to the thousands of Americans who trusted Aetna with their health coverage," the letter reads, before concluding with a list of questions that the senators demand Bertolini answer by next Thursday:
What exact costs will Aetna incur now that the Justice Department has challenged the merger? What costs will Aetna incur if the merger is ultimately blocked?
Why did Aetna agree to a deal that included a $1 billion break-up fee? When the company agreed to this condition, did Aetna conduct an internal assessment of the risk of a DOJ challenge? When Aetna agreed to pay this fee, was Aetna aware that it would endanger participation in the ACA exchanges?
What steps did Aetna take, prior to July 2016, to mitigate the risk that the Justice Department would challenge or successfully block its proposed acquisition of Humana?
When did Aetna first determine that its participation in the public exchanges would be contingent upon federal government approval of its proposed acquisition of Humana?
When did Aetna first inform investors that its participation in the public exchanges would be contingent upon federal government approval of its proposed acquisition of Humana? What other risks did the company disclose to investors?
What criteria did Aetna use in determining the states from which to withdraw in 2016?
During Aetna's April 29, 2016, Q1 2016 earnings call, Aetna said that it had a "very good cost structure" in states in which it had experienced growth in its ACA exchange population, including Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina. Why is Aetna withdrawing from states in which it had a "very good cost structure" or where Aetna has performed well in the past?
How many enrollees have contacted Aetna over its decision to withdraw from the ACA exchanges? What materials and resources is Aetna making available to assist consumers in selecting new health insurance coverage?
But however the insurance company decides to respond to the senators' letter, the episode remains "the best argument for a single-payer health plan," as Robert Reich put it in August.
"[T]he real choice in the future is becoming clear," he wrote at the time. "Obamacare is only smoking it out. One alternative is a public single-payer system. The other is a hugely-expensive for-profit oligopoly with the market power to charge high prices even to healthy people—and to charge sick people (or those likely to be sick) an arm and a leg."
Indeed, as Sanders declared last month: "The provision of health care cannot continue to be dependent upon the whims and market projections of large private insurance companies whose only goal is to make as much profit as possible."
my jaunt through Maine last week showed more signs for Gary Johnson and Trump than Clinton ... there were actually not many signs at all to be quite honest ... but of the ones I saw ... didn't see any for HRC except for a sticker on a person's car ...
Gary Johnson? You mean the guy that this morning didn't know what Aleppo was? Yeah, informed voters for sure. He's ready.
Maine will go for Clinton by 8 points+. Don't you worry.
I didn't know where Aleppo is until just now. But I'm an uninformed idiot, right? Right....
If you were running for POTUS, I would say yes. If you are just a guy that pays attention to what's going on in the world when you can, then I would say no. Sorry, the bar for uninformed for you and a POTUS candidate are far different. I don't want to 'drink a beer' with the president. That's how we got W.
I'm looking for a good president, not an encyclopedia.
You don't think the person running for POTUS should be expected to know where Aleppo is?? While the USA is essentially at war with ISIS in Syria??
Yeah, I suppose he probably should but it does not bother me in the least that Johnson goofed on Aleppo. Johnson is not a potential POTUS. Johnson is an idea. Just like Bernie is an idea (that verged on a reality for a while, and that is saying something) and Stein is an idea. The best of the ideas and dreams of those three- Bernie, Stein, and Johnson- add up to a whole lot more in terms of what makes sense than what Clinton and Trump offer combined- hugely! And is a more sensible group of ideas not easy to imagine, to see, to move toward? And potentially wonderful even?
So no, looking at it that way I honestly could care less if Johnson blew it on Aleppo.
I think that people's standards have dropped way too low when it comes to who US presidential candidate are, no matter where they stand in the polls. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too low. What a terrible example it is setting for future generations.
I think the vast majority of people here and elsewhere would agree whole-heartedly with this. That's why I suggested next time (BOOM! right away The Stone's "Last Time" popped into my head, LOL!)... the next time around we need to find someone GOOD to nominate and elect- someone who is a hybrid, say, of Bernie, Stein and Johnson. Someone who cares about the people and the planet, not some phony "economy" or their own well-being or greed.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
my jaunt through Maine last week showed more signs for Gary Johnson and Trump than Clinton ... there were actually not many signs at all to be quite honest ... but of the ones I saw ... didn't see any for HRC except for a sticker on a person's car ...
Gary Johnson? You mean the guy that this morning didn't know what Aleppo was? Yeah, informed voters for sure. He's ready.
Maine will go for Clinton by 8 points+. Don't you worry.
I didn't know where Aleppo is until just now. But I'm an uninformed idiot, right? Right....
If you were running for POTUS, I would say yes. If you are just a guy that pays attention to what's going on in the world when you can, then I would say no. Sorry, the bar for uninformed for you and a POTUS candidate are far different. I don't want to 'drink a beer' with the president. That's how we got W.
I'm looking for a good president, not an encyclopedia.
You don't think the person running for POTUS should be expected to know where Aleppo is?? While the USA is essentially at war with ISIS in Syria??
Yeah, I suppose he probably should but it does not bother me in the least that Johnson goofed on Aleppo. Johnson is not a potential POTUS. Johnson is an idea. Just like Bernie is an idea (that verged on a reality for a while, and that is saying something) and Stein is an idea. The best of the ideas and dreams of those three- Bernie, Stein, and Johnson- add up to a whole lot more in terms of what makes sense than what Clinton and Trump offer combined- hugely! And is a more sensible group of ideas not easy to imagine, to see, to move toward? And potentially wonderful even?
So no, looking at it that way I honestly could care less if Johnson blew it on Aleppo.
I think that people's standards have dropped way too low when it comes to who US presidential candidate are, no matter where they stand in the polls. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too low. What a terrible example it is setting for future generations.
I think the vast majority of people here and elsewhere would agree whole-heartedly with this. That's why I suggested next time (BOOM! right away The Stone's "Last Time" popped into my head, LOL!)... the next time around we need to find someone GOOD to nominate and elect- someone who is a hybrid, say, of Bernie, Stein and Johnson. Someone who cares about the people and the planet, not some phony "economy" or their own well-being or greed.
Where does Gary Johnson fit into that equation? It seems like there is affection because he is a third party, not because people actually agree with his positions around here (some might). But remember that his social positions would include (as a Libertarian), the elimination of the ADA Act, no minimum wage, no price controls for cheese and milk, no rent controls for the poor in major cities, etc.
Yeah I agree with what you're saying about Johnson m. I think the ONLY THING he has going for him is the fact that he happens to lead a third/fourth party during this particular election, and yes, I am more than a little surprised to see anyone who leans left and/or who cares a great deal about the environment and education supporting him on any level.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
my jaunt through Maine last week showed more signs for Gary Johnson and Trump than Clinton ... there were actually not many signs at all to be quite honest ... but of the ones I saw ... didn't see any for HRC except for a sticker on a person's car ...
Gary Johnson? You mean the guy that this morning didn't know what Aleppo was? Yeah, informed voters for sure. He's ready.
Maine will go for Clinton by 8 points+. Don't you worry.
I didn't know where Aleppo is until just now. But I'm an uninformed idiot, right? Right....
If you were running for POTUS, I would say yes. If you are just a guy that pays attention to what's going on in the world when you can, then I would say no. Sorry, the bar for uninformed for you and a POTUS candidate are far different. I don't want to 'drink a beer' with the president. That's how we got W.
I'm looking for a good president, not an encyclopedia.
You don't think the person running for POTUS should be expected to know where Aleppo is?? While the USA is essentially at war with ISIS in Syria??
Yeah, I suppose he probably should but it does not bother me in the least that Johnson goofed on Aleppo. Johnson is not a potential POTUS. Johnson is an idea. Just like Bernie is an idea (that verged on a reality for a while, and that is saying something) and Stein is an idea. The best of the ideas and dreams of those three- Bernie, Stein, and Johnson- add up to a whole lot more in terms of what makes sense than what Clinton and Trump offer combined- hugely! And is a more sensible group of ideas not easy to imagine, to see, to move toward? And potentially wonderful even?
So no, looking at it that way I honestly could care less if Johnson blew it on Aleppo.
I think that people's standards have dropped way too low when it comes to who US presidential candidate are, no matter where they stand in the polls. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too low. What a terrible example it is setting for future generations.
I think the vast majority of people here and elsewhere would agree whole-heartedly with this. That's why I suggested next time (BOOM! right away The Stone's "Last Time" popped into my head, LOL!)... the next time around we need to find someone GOOD to nominate and elect- someone who is a hybrid, say, of Bernie, Stein and Johnson. Someone who cares about the people and the planet, not some phony "economy" or their own well-being or greed.
Where does Gary Johnson fit into that equation? It seems like there is affection because he is a third party, not because people actually agree with his positions around here (some might). But remember that his social positions would include (as a Libertarian), the elimination of the ADA Act, no minimum wage, no price controls for cheese and milk, no rent controls for the poor in major cities, etc.
Obvious (to me at least) I'm not a huge Johnson supporter but I like his take on cutting military budget by 43%, opposition to physical and psychological torture, supporting women's right to choose abortion, opposition to death penalty, his understanding that the war on drugs is a failure, general support of LGBT related issues and a few other things I can't think of off the top of my head. Again though, what I'm talking about is the fact that, speaking for myself, the best things I like about Sanders, Stein and Johnson add up to more than the best things about Clinton and Trump. By a long shot.
But I guess I have not explained what I'm getting at with this and I'm tired of running around in the circular room looking for a corner.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Interesting Brian, because Clinton's position on the environment is far better than Johnson's, who thinks that corporations should make their own decisions about that, based on free market principles. For someone who apparently despised Hillary for everything even though she obviously still has some views that you would support, I am surprised that you are willing to overlook that about Johnson. It tells me that you have a very specific bias against Clinton.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,845
Interesting Brian, because Clinton's position on the environment is far better than Johnson's, who thinks that corporations should make their own decisions about that, based on free market principles. For someone who apparently despised Hillary for everything even though she obviously still has some views that you would support, I am surprised that you are willing to overlook that about Johnson. It tells me that you have a very specific bias against Clinton.
True! But I didn't say I was a Johnson supporter. What I've been saying is that if we found somebody who had what I see as (and honestly, who give a shit about what I think, LOL) the best qualities of Johnson (not all of what he stands for) and Bernie and Stein, all of that would outshine all of the good traits of HRC and Trump combined.
This premise of mine has been so misunderstood (probably my fault) and beat around the bush enough to many times. Let's drop it.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Interesting Brian, because Clinton's position on the environment is far better than Johnson's, who thinks that corporations should make their own decisions about that, based on free market principles. For someone who apparently despised Hillary for everything even though she obviously still has some views that you would support, I am surprised that you are willing to overlook that about Johnson. It tells me that you have a very specific bias against Clinton.
True! But I didn't say I was a Johnson supporter. What I've been saying is that if we found somebody who had what I see as (and honestly, who give a shit about what I think, LOL) the best qualities of Johnson (not all of what he stands for) and Bernie and Stein, all of that would outshine all of the good traits of HRC and Trump combined.
This premise of mine has been so misunderstood (probably my fault) and beat around the bush enough to many times. Let's drop it.
Nope! I understood your original statement. Loud and clear. Seems like some folks around here are some how trying to discredit you, or make it seem as if you are somehow accepting each candidates full platform, as your own, when your simply taking the good traits and outsider appeal from each candidate . There is this general feeling that people are tired of the same old same old.... A revolutionary change feels good, however it's to risky and almost pointless to attempt to nominate an outsider. Fear Baby! Fear!
Interesting Brian, because Clinton's position on the environment is far better than Johnson's, who thinks that corporations should make their own decisions about that, based on free market principles. For someone who apparently despised Hillary for everything even though she obviously still has some views that you would support, I am surprised that you are willing to overlook that about Johnson. It tells me that you have a very specific bias against Clinton.
True! But I didn't say I was a Johnson supporter. What I've been saying is that if we found somebody who had what I see as (and honestly, who give a shit about what I think, LOL) the best qualities of Johnson (not all of what he stands for) and Bernie and Stein, all of that would outshine all of the good traits of HRC and Trump combined.
This premise of mine has been so misunderstood (probably my fault) and beat around the bush enough to many times. Let's drop it.
Nope! I understood your original statement. Loud and clear. Seems like some folks around here are some how trying to discredit you, or make it seem as if you are somehow accepting each candidates full platform, as your own, when your simply taking the good traits and outsider appeal from each candidate . There is this general feeling that people are tired of the same old same old.... A revolutionary change feels good, however it's to risky and almost pointless to attempt to nominate an outsider. Fear Baby! Fear!
If you're talking about me, I wasn't doing that at all. So questioning Brian's comments now amounts to discrediting?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,845
edited September 2016
Did you know that as recent as the early 1960's there was not one single wax museum in the State of Maryland?!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Did you know that as recent as the early 1960's there was not one single wax museum in the State of Maryland?!
Well that is a...strange fact
LOL. When I was a kid, my best friend Mark did this thing where if people around him were arguing about something endlessly and with no resolution, out of the blue he would blurt out, "Did you know that there are no wax museums in Maryland?!!"
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I have been voting for presidents since 1988. Ever since 1988, I have listened to people moan about picking between two evils. I've come to realize it's just one of those things people say. It doesn't really mean anything. There will never be a perfect candidate. The world is way too complicated to encapsulate all we want in just one person. It's ludicrous to expect it.
I have been voting for presidents since 1988. Ever since 1988, I have listened to people moan about picking between two evils. I've come to realize it's just one of those things people say. It doesn't really mean anything. There will never be a perfect candidate. The world is way too complicated to encapsulate all we want in just one person. It's ludicrous to expect it.
In the 12 presidential elections I've voted in I only remember that being strongly bandied about a few times- mostly in recent years and never before like it is this years. This is the m-effer of presidential election years. Never have so many been so dissatisfied with the choices. There have been huge divisions, large numbers of people hating one or the other, but never so many people so unhappy with both choices. Not by a long shot.
Which is probably at least partly why Bernie did so well. His run was no small thing. I will leave its impression on US history and American politics though of course many will hope to see it buried.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
Sanders wasn't about free, free, free, and more free. You clearly have it wrong, and your post is shit, to be frank, all you do around here is defend Clinton and dehumanize trump, not that I give a shit about trump, but you're playing the victim or trying to act as if your the bigger person when in all reality It's just a bunch of BS. You should look in the mirror.
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
Sanders wasn't about free, free, free, and more free. You clearly have it wrong, and your post is shit, to be frank, all you do around here is defend Clinton and dehumanize trump, not that I give a shit about trump, but you're playing the victim or trying to act as if your the bigger person when in all reality It's just a bunch of BS. You should look in the mirror.
Quit yer whining. Bernie lost, get over it. And Bernie did run on giving shit away. Free this, free that, everybody but those evil corporations got something.
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,845
I remember this cartoon I saw when I was a kid in the 50's. I think the people that made it were all on mushrooms. The cartoon was a bunch of really freaking people dancing around singing:
"We are a hapy fam-i-ly We dance and sing and play all day".
Freaky.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
The bolded part is worth...bolding
Enjoy your Saturday; it sounds like a lovely get-away from the surrounding bullshit and a better get-into what's more important (to you).
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
Sanders wasn't about free, free, free, and more free. You clearly have it wrong, and your post is shit, to be frank, all you do around here is defend Clinton and dehumanize trump, not that I give a shit about trump, but you're playing the victim or trying to act as if your the bigger person when in all reality It's just a bunch of BS. You should look in the mirror.
You really posted this? Calling the post shit because you disagree with it? That's really fucked up. What Dreams didn't take a shot at you.
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
Sanders wasn't about free, free, free, and more free. You clearly have it wrong, and your post is shit, to be frank, all you do around here is defend Clinton and dehumanize trump, not that I give a shit about trump, but you're playing the victim or trying to act as if your the bigger person when in all reality It's just a bunch of BS. You should look in the mirror.
Quit yer whining. Bernie lost, get over it. And Bernie did run on giving shit away. Free this, free that, everybody but those evil corporations got something.
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
Sanders wasn't about free, free, free, and more free. You clearly have it wrong, and your post is shit, to be frank, all you do around here is defend Clinton and dehumanize trump, not that I give a shit about trump, but you're playing the victim or trying to act as if your the bigger person when in all reality It's just a bunch of BS. You should look in the mirror.
I thought it was a very mis-guided, ignorant (regarding Sanders) borderline apathetic, self-righteous and speaking down from his pedestal type post.
Edit: ...except the media part. I've been saying this for years only to be blasted for daring to say the truth about the media long before the status quo was ready to deal with the obviousness of it.
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
Sanders wasn't about free, free, free, and more free. You clearly have it wrong, and your post is shit, to be frank, all you do around here is defend Clinton and dehumanize trump, not that I give a shit about trump, but you're playing the victim or trying to act as if your the bigger person when in all reality It's just a bunch of BS. You should look in the mirror.
You really posted this? Calling the post shit because you disagree with it? That's really fucked up. What Dreams didn't take a shot at you.
I'm calling the post bullshit because this individual dehumanizes trump, yet when it comes to Clinton the poster is asking for respect and civility. I've been active reader on here and the whole playing the victim card has gotten old. the hypocrisy with some of you clintonites and wanna be progressives is sickening. At least try to keep it consistent.
And you of all people, who said the Clinton thread was getting out of control with garbage post... Yet you're posting childish one liners on that same thread about others comments. The hypocrisy is endless. If you don't want to be called out for BS, don't post BS. That's pretty much common sense.
In my circle, I just don't hear it. I hear people weighing their options and saying the same things they always say. Nobody is any more dissatisfied than they were any other year that I remember. And there are TONS of strong Hillary supporters. You just don't talk to them. I will be registering voters with a handful of them on Sunday. In my neck of the woods, it was Hillary 75%, Bernie 25%, and the Democratic Party has a solid ground operation going.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
Sanders wasn't about free, free, free, and more free. You clearly have it wrong, and your post is shit, to be frank, all you do around here is defend Clinton and dehumanize trump, not that I give a shit about trump, but you're playing the victim or trying to act as if your the bigger person when in all reality It's just a bunch of BS. You should look in the mirror.
You really posted this? Calling the post shit because you disagree with it? That's really fucked up. What Dreams didn't take a shot at you.
I'm calling the post bullshit because this individual dehumanizes trump, yet when it comes to Clinton the poster is asking for respect and civility. I've been active reader on here and the whole playing the victim card has gotten old. the hypocrisy with some of you clintonites and wanna be progressives is sickening. At least try to keep it consistent.
And you of all people, who said the Clinton thread was getting out of control with garbage post... Yet you're posting childish one liners on that same thread about others comments. The hypocrisy is endless. If you don't want to be called out for BS, don't post BS. That's pretty much common sense.
Well, one thing is consistent, your whining. If you don't want to be called out for whining, don't whine.
And as much as I detest Trump, he's still on the ballot while Bernie is not. Get over it.
Comments
Warren and Sanders Lead Probe Into 'Dangerous, Irresponsible' Aetna Ploy
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/08/17/aetna-shows-why-we-need-single-payer
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
But I guess I have not explained what I'm getting at with this and I'm tired of running around in the circular room looking for a corner.
This premise of mine has been so misunderstood (probably my fault) and beat around the bush enough to many times. Let's drop it.
. There is this general feeling that people are tired of the same old same old.... A revolutionary change feels good, however it's to risky and almost pointless to attempt to nominate an outsider. Fear Baby! Fear!
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Which is probably at least partly why Bernie did so well. His run was no small thing. I will leave its impression on US history and American politics though of course many will hope to see it buried.
The only thing I feel is worse this election is the media. The fucking media is out of control. A former news junkie, I can't even stand any of it anymore. People's perceptions are so skewed about reality because they hear commentators say the same thing 5000 times over 5 days. When something stupid is said that often, people blow up the scale of stupidity.
My perception of Bernie's popularity is that he took off because he promised America a bunch of free stuff they feel entitled to and stolen from. People in America like free stuff. Tell a struggling kid in college "I'll make it free!" College kid votes for you. Tell a bunch of struggling sick people "I'll make your health care free!" Sick people vote for you. Tell tired working moms "Daycare is free!" Moms vote for you. He had something for everyone, and they all bought it with their vote. I feel like Bernie is as much of a demagogue as Trump is. He's just a nicer demagogue.
Hell, I even went into the booth on primary day undecided and did an "eeny meeny miney moe" and damn if I didn't land on Bernie. I didn't vote for him because I believe he could do anything he said. I only voted for him because by March, I just couldn't deal with the country (not me) coming unhinged over Hillary. I regret my vote now, wish I hadn't given Bernie an extra count. But now look at everyone coming absolutely unhinged. The exaggerated drama surrounding Hillary is the stuff of tall tales and Greek mythology. People just need to calm the fuck down, go about their lives, and let her be. Let it be . . .
This Saturday I'm going to an all day mindfulness retreat to do just that. While the rest of the country continues their collective anxiety attack over Hillary's pneumonia, Donald's tax return, and now it looks like Colin Powell's emails -- fuck me, more emails, really people? Stop saying shit in your emails -- I'll be meditating and expressing gratitude on a farm in Western MD. If anything this election season, I have become way more sensible than I have ever been. It's been a deliberate choice to reject what has become the new conventional wisdom, that the world is on the brink of destruction. Our American democracy will survive and evolve just fine for 4-8 more presidential years, but I would venture to say that if we devoted even a fraction of our attention to scrutinizing our Congressional candidates and -that- rigged process, we would be in a much better place.
If I'm wrong and the world does blow up, you can't blame me for choosing to go out in a peaceful trance.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"We are a hapy fam-i-ly
We dance and sing and play all day".
Freaky.
Enjoy your Saturday; it sounds like a lovely get-away from the surrounding bullshit and a better get-into what's more important (to you).
Hmmmmm not sure how I'm whining.
Edit: ...except the media part. I've been saying this for years only to be blasted for daring to say the truth about the media long before the status quo was ready to deal with the obviousness of it.
And you of all people, who said the Clinton thread was getting out of control with garbage post... Yet you're posting childish one liners on that same thread about others comments. The hypocrisy is endless. If you don't want to be called out for BS, don't post BS. That's pretty much common sense.
And as much as I detest Trump, he's still on the ballot while Bernie is not. Get over it.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©