LOL...I cannot believe there is an actual political fight in my state over which bathrooms someone should use and that I missed a Pearl Jam show because of it. I realize there are other, bigger, more important issues at play here. But man, are we not all adults here? Seems like society had already solved its bathroom problems...guess I was wrong. American politics hits a new modern low....
To be clear, I have not stated a position either in support of or against the band's decision. I see the merits of both sides of the argument. I understand what the band is trying to do and respect their decision, which I presume was arrived at after much internal debate and consideration. I also sympathize with people who made plans to travel to the show from out of town and who lost hotel-room deposits or will have to pay airline change fees, etc., or fans who are merely disappointed that they won't get to see a show they had looked forward to.
What I don't understand are people who are attacking the band's motives for cancelling the show. Absent some new information that justifies skepticism, I don't see any basis for doubting that the band made this decision for the "right reasons" (i.e., out of a sincere belief that it would help rectify something that they believe is a grievous wrong). I especially don't understand why there would be cynicism about the decision among members of the band's fan club. If you have so little respect for the band's integrity, why would you join their fan club? You can enjoy their music for free without paying to be in their fan club.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
To be clear, I have not stated a position either in support of or against the band's decision. I see the merits of both sides of the argument. I understand what the band is trying to do and respect their decision, which I presume was arrived at after much internal debate and consideration. I also sympathize with people who made plans to travel to the show from out of town and who lost hotel-room deposits or will have to pay airline change fees, etc., or fans who are merely disappointed that they won't get to see a show they had looked forward to.
What I don't understand are people who are attacking the band's motives for cancelling the show. Absent some new information that justifies skepticism, I don't see any basis for doubting that the band made this decision for the "right reasons" (i.e., out of a sincere belief that it would help rectify something that they believe is a grievous wrong). I especially don't understand why there would be cynicism about the decision among members of the band's fan club. If you have so little respect for the band's integrity, why would you join their fan club? You can enjoy their music for free without paying to be in their fan club.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
Because they have never done it before in places with bad laws and it seems unlikely they will cancel other shows on this tour with bad laws. It doesn't seem that they are all in with making change here in NC as there were plenty of other options for fighting the law without cancelling. They chose the tactic that gave them the best PR. They declined the advice and plees of the LGBTQ community themself here. I am very involved in the fight for social injustice and more focused on voter suppression. The South Carolina Voter ID laws is a bad civil rights issue. Almost everyone agrees that PJ would not cancel a show in NYC, Boston or Chicago - all of which have their own issues. You can find something worthy to protest in all of america and the world. This was grandstanding. I used to respect their integrity. I looked past the fact Eddie was such a vocal supporter of Nader, which was misguided in a presidential election, which directly led to Bush being elected, which directly led to SC justices being appointed and hurting the progressive fight (letalone all the other things disagreeable about the Bush presidency). Now I know its all a show.
To be clear, I have not stated a position either in support of or against the band's decision. I see the merits of both sides of the argument. I understand what the band is trying to do and respect their decision, which I presume was arrived at after much internal debate and consideration. I also sympathize with people who made plans to travel to the show from out of town and who lost hotel-room deposits or will have to pay airline change fees, etc., or fans who are merely disappointed that they won't get to see a show they had looked forward to.
What I don't understand are people who are attacking the band's motives for cancelling the show. Absent some new information that justifies skepticism, I don't see any basis for doubting that the band made this decision for the "right reasons" (i.e., out of a sincere belief that it would help rectify something that they believe is a grievous wrong). I especially don't understand why there would be cynicism about the decision among members of the band's fan club. If you have so little respect for the band's integrity, why would you join their fan club? You can enjoy their music for free without paying to be in their fan club.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
Well, we can't get too much deeper here, because of forum rules prohibiting talking negatively about band members. But it is certainly possible to love and appreciate the band and their music and still be critical of band members.
As far as motives go both for the boycott itself and the reason for their crushing last minute decision, the band will have to provide that info if they want the speculation to end. The law will not stand, and it won't be because of boycotts. It will be because of the rule of law. The 4th Circuit Court ruled on a VA transgender restroom case, that will ultimately force NC to capitulate. So while I have no real issue with the boycott, it won't be the boycott that causes change, and it will be the poorly timed decision that will remain as a bad taste in fans' mouths. I know I'll never again travel to see PJ if it involves planes and hotels. I'll drive to Vancouver or Portland or the Gorge, but beyond that, I no longer trust the band to honor obligations, and don't believe they have fans' interests at heart. But at least Ed made Bruce happy.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
To be clear, I have not stated a position either in support of or against the band's decision. I see the merits of both sides of the argument. I understand what the band is trying to do and respect their decision, which I presume was arrived at after much internal debate and consideration. I also sympathize with people who made plans to travel to the show from out of town and who lost hotel-room deposits or will have to pay airline change fees, etc., or fans who are merely disappointed that they won't get to see a show they had looked forward to.
What I don't understand are people who are attacking the band's motives for cancelling the show. Absent some new information that justifies skepticism, I don't see any basis for doubting that the band made this decision for the "right reasons" (i.e., out of a sincere belief that it would help rectify something that they believe is a grievous wrong). I especially don't understand why there would be cynicism about the decision among members of the band's fan club. If you have so little respect for the band's integrity, why would you join their fan club? You can enjoy their music for free without paying to be in their fan club.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
Well, we can't get too much deeper here, because of forum rules prohibiting talking negatively about band members. But it is certainly possible to love and appreciate the band and their music and still be critical of band members.
As far as motives go both for the boycott itself and the reason for their crushing last minute decision, the band will have to provide that info if they want the speculation to end. The law will not stand, and it won't be because of boycotts. It will be because of the rule of law. The 4th Circuit Court ruled on a VA transgender restroom case, that will ultimately force NC to capitulate. So while I have no real issue with the boycott, it won't be the boycott that causes change, and it will be the poorly timed decision that will remain as a bad taste in fans' mouths. I know I'll never again travel to see PJ if it involves planes and hotels. I'll drive to Vancouver or Portland or the Gorge, but beyond that, I no longer trust the band to honor obligations, and don't believe they have fans' interests at heart. But at least Ed made Bruce happy.
Oh boy talk about melodramatic , as if they cancel shows with regularity lol
To be clear, I have not stated a position either in support of or against the band's decision. I see the merits of both sides of the argument. I understand what the band is trying to do and respect their decision, which I presume was arrived at after much internal debate and consideration. I also sympathize with people who made plans to travel to the show from out of town and who lost hotel-room deposits or will have to pay airline change fees, etc., or fans who are merely disappointed that they won't get to see a show they had looked forward to.
What I don't understand are people who are attacking the band's motives for cancelling the show. Absent some new information that justifies skepticism, I don't see any basis for doubting that the band made this decision for the "right reasons" (i.e., out of a sincere belief that it would help rectify something that they believe is a grievous wrong). I especially don't understand why there would be cynicism about the decision among members of the band's fan club. If you have so little respect for the band's integrity, why would you join their fan club? You can enjoy their music for free without paying to be in their fan club.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
Well, we can't get too much deeper here, because of forum rules prohibiting talking negatively about band members. But it is certainly possible to love and appreciate the band and their music and still be critical of band members.
As far as motives go both for the boycott itself and the reason for their crushing last minute decision, the band will have to provide that info if they want the speculation to end. The law will not stand, and it won't be because of boycotts. It will be because of the rule of law. The 4th Circuit Court ruled on a VA transgender restroom case, that will ultimately force NC to capitulate. So while I have no real issue with the boycott, it won't be the boycott that causes change, and it will be the poorly timed decision that will remain as a bad taste in fans' mouths. I know I'll never again travel to see PJ if it involves planes and hotels. I'll drive to Vancouver or Portland or the Gorge, but beyond that, I no longer trust the band to honor obligations, and don't believe they have fans' interests at heart. But at least Ed made Bruce happy.
Oh boy talk about melodramatic , as if they cancel shows with regularity lol
Didn't say they did. But we now have evidence that they'll cancel on a whim, so you can choose to do with that evidence what you will. I won't travel to see them going forward. You should decide for yourself what works for you.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
If the law gets repealed which due to the 4th circuit court ruling mentioned above, it very likely will. I believe PJ will reschedule the show, I heard something about in six weeks the law will likely be repealed. They are in TN for Bonnaroo on 6.11, it would not be too hard for them to come back around that time. We'll have to wait and see what happens. If for some reason the law never gets repealed, we'll never get to see PJ in NC again. Being a resident of NC it sort of sucks for me, but still support the bands decision, and will not have any 2nd thoughts booking travel to see them in another state in the future.
I want to also mention that HB2 was signed into law by our asshole governor, Pat McCrory, after every democrat in the senate walked out in protest. He still signed it into law later that night, knowing this had happened. If you are a NC resident, you need to do what is right and vote this fucker out of office.
Here is a quote from a article in The Charlotte Observer:
How did Democrats vote on HB2?
The vote in the N.C. House was 84-25 after three hours of debate, with all Republicans voting for it and 11 Democrats breaking ranks with their party to support the bill. In the Senate, the vote was 32-0 after the Democrats walked out in protest, saying they had not been allowed to participate in the process. Gov. Pat McCrory, a Republican, then signed it into law.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
I disagree. I think you can love a band and not care about the lyrics. I love Iron Maiden and Metallica but don't relate to any of their lyrics. And Paul Ryan said his favorite band is Rage Against The Machine...a band whose lyrics couldn't be further from Ryan's vision for America.
To be clear, I have not stated a position either in support of or against the band's decision. I see the merits of both sides of the argument. I understand what the band is trying to do and respect their decision, which I presume was arrived at after much internal debate and consideration. I also sympathize with people who made plans to travel to the show from out of town and who lost hotel-room deposits or will have to pay airline change fees, etc., or fans who are merely disappointed that they won't get to see a show they had looked forward to.
What I don't understand are people who are attacking the band's motives for cancelling the show. Absent some new information that justifies skepticism, I don't see any basis for doubting that the band made this decision for the "right reasons" (i.e., out of a sincere belief that it would help rectify something that they believe is a grievous wrong). I especially don't understand why there would be cynicism about the decision among members of the band's fan club. If you have so little respect for the band's integrity, why would you join their fan club? You can enjoy their music for free without paying to be in their fan club.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
Well, we can't get too much deeper here, because of forum rules prohibiting talking negatively about band members. But it is certainly possible to love and appreciate the band and their music and still be critical of band members.
As far as motives go both for the boycott itself and the reason for their crushing last minute decision, the band will have to provide that info if they want the speculation to end. The law will not stand, and it won't be because of boycotts. It will be because of the rule of law. The 4th Circuit Court ruled on a VA transgender restroom case, that will ultimately force NC to capitulate. So while I have no real issue with the boycott, it won't be the boycott that causes change, and it will be the poorly timed decision that will remain as a bad taste in fans' mouths. I know I'll never again travel to see PJ if it involves planes and hotels. I'll drive to Vancouver or Portland or the Gorge, but beyond that, I no longer trust the band to honor obligations, and don't believe they have fans' interests at heart. But at least Ed made Bruce happy.
Oh boy talk about melodramatic , as if they cancel shows with regularity lol
Didn't say they did. But we now have evidence that they'll cancel on a whim, so you can choose to do with that evidence what you will. I won't travel to see them going forward. You should decide for yourself what works for you.
Ok if you choose that path , I've already moved past traveling for this band a few yes back hell I got shut out of MSG my back yard I'm not even attempting to get in at time of shows I'm only doing Fenway I'll drive the 5hrs ...but I would not say that because of NC this band can't be trusted ! Did they fuck the decision up yes !!
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
I disagree. I think you can love a band and not care about the lyrics. I love Iron Maiden and Metallica but don't relate to any of their lyrics. And Paul Ryan said his favorite band is Rage Against The Machine...a band whose lyrics couldn't be further from Ryan's vision for America.
I disagree. I think you can love a band and not care about the lyrics. I love Iron Maiden and Metallica but don't relate to any of their lyrics. And Paul Ryan said his favorite band is Rage Against The Machine...a band whose lyrics couldn't be further from Ryan's vision for America.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
I disagree. I think you can love a band and not care about the lyrics. I love Iron Maiden and Metallica but don't relate to any of their lyrics. And Paul Ryan said his favorite band is Rage Against The Machine...a band whose lyrics couldn't be further from Ryan's vision for America.
I'd love to hear how Zach de la Rocha feels about that.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable.
I disagree with this. I love their music but disagree with a lot of their political views.
But if you are listening to their music and just enjoying that without their politics and the messages of their songs even entering your thoughts, in agreement or disagreement, you're really not listening to the songs very much at all.... Do some people love music while ignoring the lyrics and the meaning of the art?? I guess so. Seems kind of like willful ignorance, but okay. That's a pity though, and seems to avoid the whole point of art. But perhaps you in particular love their music even though you are consciously disagreeing with their messages... I personally don't go out of my way to repeatedly consume art for listening pleasure that has a message I disagree with, but i suppose that's possible.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable.
I disagree with this. I love their music but disagree with a lot of their political views.
Yeah same... Basically all of my favorite bands are super liberal. Just have to drown out what they rant and rave about and rock the hell out to the music. Most people are his way but there are a handful that think hey are the same.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable.
I disagree with this. I love their music but disagree with a lot of their political views.
Disagree all you want with their views, but their views have always been front and center in their music. That's what I mean about their music and their politics being inseparable. You can disagree with the social commentary being expressed in "W.M.A.," but it won't make it any less a political commentary on race, gender and policing than it is. You can enjoy "Glorified G" but you can't make it a pro-gun song. You can enjoy "Bu$hleaguer" but you can't make it pro-Bush. (O.K., that song is terrible without respect to its content, so maybe you can't enjoy that one regardless of your politics.)
"I'll stop trying to make a difference... No way." What would the Eddie Vedder of 1998 think of the Eddie Vedder of 2016 if he stopped trying to make a difference?
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
I disagree. I think you can love a band and not care about the lyrics. I love Iron Maiden and Metallica but don't relate to any of their lyrics. And Paul Ryan said his favorite band is Rage Against The Machine...a band whose lyrics couldn't be further from Ryan's vision for America.
I did not say that you can't love a band while disagreeing with its views. I just said that the music and politics are inseparable. You can ignore the politics, but they are still there. My point is that you shouldn't be surprised or let down when a band that has been transparently political for 25 years decides to take political action. Was this decision worse for fans than the attempt to tour without Ticketmaster 20 years ago? Countless more fans were inconvenienced and/or deprived of the opportunity to see the band live by that decision than by this decision.
But if you are listening to their music and just enjoying that without their politics and the messages of their songs even entering your thoughts, in agreement or disagreement, you're really not listening to the songs very much at all.... Do some people love music while ignoring the lyrics and the meaning of the art?? I guess so. Seems kind of like willful ignorance, but okay. That's a pity though, and seems to avoid the whole point of art. But perhaps you in particular love their music even though you are consciously disagreeing with their messages... I personally don't go out of my way to repeatedly consume art for listening pleasure that has a message I disagree with, but i suppose that's possible.
I can listen to their lyrics, respect their opinions, but still disagree with some (not all) of their messages and still enjoy their music. I don't have to only listen to stuff that I agree with. I appreciate all kinds of varying opinions. They are super-talented musicians so to me that is what matters the most.
So you drown out the lyrics and the meaning behind the art? I don't get it. Why not just listen to instrumental albums?
Eddie has some of the greatest lyrics out there (especially pre-2006 before he figured out he didn't have to try so hard). They are absolutely amazing how they flow together. I can respect his point of view in the lyrics and where he is coming from and appreciate them. When I was younger I had a lyric book with all of their lyrics. I don't mind being challenged and you usually learn more by challenging yourself instead of hanging out in your own bubble.
Some people are built where everything they do has to be political. I don't believe that. I understand that Pearl Jam is like that, and usually it just involves a rant at a show. This time it involved canceling a show and that is where it pissed me off to rant for days. Ha. I would bet there are a lot of family get togethers where everything is fine until someone brings up politics or religion. Then people start arguing. They don't disown each other because they disagree, although they may get pissed off and not talk to each other for a few weeks.
But if you are listening to their music and just enjoying that without their politics and the messages of their songs even entering your thoughts, in agreement or disagreement, you're really not listening to the songs very much at all.... Do some people love music while ignoring the lyrics and the meaning of the art?? I guess so. Seems kind of like willful ignorance, but okay. That's a pity though, and seems to avoid the whole point of art. But perhaps you in particular love their music even though you are consciously disagreeing with their messages... I personally don't go out of my way to repeatedly consume art for listening pleasure that has a message I disagree with, but i suppose that's possible.
I can listen to their lyrics, respect their opinions, but still disagree with some (not all) of their messages and still enjoy their music. I don't have to only listen to stuff that I agree with. I appreciate all kinds of varying opinions. They are super-talented musicians so to me that is what matters the most.
Yes, of course disagreeing. I was talking about ignoring it altogether like some have suggested. I really don't have opportunity to listen to music where I disagree with the message... I don't know I have ever really heard any songs with a right wing message, lol. I definitely don't listen to music about hiw death and destruction is cool because that's just stupid. I don't like the sound of death metal. Never heard a song about a conservative economic system, hahaha, I definitely am not into religious rock, not into those white supremacist bands... Show me some good music where I actually might disagree with the message and I'll tell you how I feel. I honestly can't even think of any. Most good music has a message that I like and agree with because I lean far left and so does most music. But i can't imagine hearing a song about how capitalism is awesome or how abortion is wrong or other right wing hot button issues and thinking, "wow, this song is awesome even though the message is idiotic!" If i want to know about opposing issues, which i do, i'll read the news, go to the AMT, etc. Not spend time listening to shitty, weird, right wing or hateful music that are in direct oppostion to my views or my personality.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Yes, of course disagreeing. I was talking about ignoring it altogether like some have suggested. I really don't have opportunity to listen to music where I disagree with the message... I don't know I have ever really heard any songs with a right wing message, lol. I definitely don't listen to music about hiw death and destruction is cool because that's just stupid. I don't like the sound of death metal. Never heard a song about a conservative economic system, hahaha, I definitely am not into religious rock, not into those white supremacist bands... Show me some good music where I actually might disagree with the message and I'll tell you how I feel. I honestly can't even think of any. Most good music has a message that I like and agree with because I'm lean far left and so does most music.
Yes, the problem for me is that all the best bands are liberal
Yes, of course disagreeing. I was talking about ignoring it altogether like some have suggested. I really don't have opportunity to listen to music where I disagree with the message... I don't know I have ever really heard any songs with a right wing message, lol. I definitely don't listen to music about hiw death and destruction is cool because that's just stupid. I don't like the sound of death metal. Never heard a song about a conservative economic system, hahaha, I definitely am not into religious rock, not into those white supremacist bands... Show me some good music where I actually might disagree with the message and I'll tell you how I feel. I honestly can't even think of any. Most good music has a message that I like and agree with because I'm lean far left and so does most music.
Yes, the problem for me is that all the best bands are liberal
Yeah, I can see how that would be a problem that you need to work around, lol..... not a country fan?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
I disagree. I think you can love a band and not care about the lyrics. I love Iron Maiden and Metallica but don't relate to any of their lyrics. And Paul Ryan said his favorite band is Rage Against The Machine...a band whose lyrics couldn't be further from Ryan's vision for America.
I'd love to hear how Zach de la Rocha feels about that.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
I disagree. I think you can love a band and not care about the lyrics. I love Iron Maiden and Metallica but don't relate to any of their lyrics. And Paul Ryan said his favorite band is Rage Against The Machine...a band whose lyrics couldn't be further from Ryan's vision for America.
I did not say that you can't love a band while disagreeing with its views. I just said that the music and politics are inseparable. You can ignore the politics, but they are still there. My point is that you shouldn't be surprised or let down when a band that has been transparently political for 25 years decides to take political action. Was this decision worse for fans than the attempt to tour without Ticketmaster 20 years ago? Countless more fans were inconvenienced and/or deprived of the opportunity to see the band live by that decision than by this decision.
I think if you can ignore the politics....then the music and politics aren't inseparable. And while yes music is art, art is not necessarily always political. You can make a statement or comment on things without it being political. Like The Wall by Pink Floyd for example. It comments on war, education, and yes, even politics. But I don't think that makes the work as a whole "political". I dunno, maybe just to me the word "politics" has been so bastardized through campaigns and election processes that I think it's an insult to social commentary to lump it in with politics.
As for the Ticketmaster thing vs. this. I think with the Ticketmaster thing, the band had the fans' best interests in mind even though in the end it was a failure. Here, while they're backing a good enough cause, to cancel two days before is kinda like "eh...fuck 'em if they're pissed."
But art that is political is political... a person consuming the art can't just decide that a political song isn't political because they don't want it to be. I know art is subjective, but there is a limit to that theory. I can't beleive you can say that The Wall isn't a political album with a straight face. That's like saying Bu$hleaguer isn't political.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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KV4053
Mike's side, crushed up against the stage Posts: 1,503
This whole discussion provides incredible insight into how there were opposing views in the '60's over the civil rights of the time and also how there will likely be opposing views in the future regarding civil rights of Muslims or whoever is targeted next. Is it still 4/20?
I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
Comments
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/20/after-north-carolina-s-law-trans-suicide-hotline-calls-double.html
politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/trump-transgender-bathrooms-222257
What I don't understand are people who are attacking the band's motives for cancelling the show. Absent some new information that justifies skepticism, I don't see any basis for doubting that the band made this decision for the "right reasons" (i.e., out of a sincere belief that it would help rectify something that they believe is a grievous wrong). I especially don't understand why there would be cynicism about the decision among members of the band's fan club. If you have so little respect for the band's integrity, why would you join their fan club? You can enjoy their music for free without paying to be in their fan club.
Finally, to the poster who said he likes the band for its music, not its politics: they are inseparable. Music is art; art is political. This band's music has reflected its political views since its inception. Do you think "W.M.A." stands for "We Make Apolitical [Songs]"? Do you think "Rats" is actually about rodents? Perhaps most tellingly for the current debate, do you think "Indifference" is actually an endorsement of indifference?
As far as motives go both for the boycott itself and the reason for their crushing last minute decision, the band will have to provide that info if they want the speculation to end. The law will not stand, and it won't be because of boycotts. It will be because of the rule of law. The 4th Circuit Court ruled on a VA transgender restroom case, that will ultimately force NC to capitulate. So while I have no real issue with the boycott, it won't be the boycott that causes change, and it will be the poorly timed decision that will remain as a bad taste in fans' mouths. I know I'll never again travel to see PJ if it involves planes and hotels. I'll drive to Vancouver or Portland or the Gorge, but beyond that, I no longer trust the band to honor obligations, and don't believe they have fans' interests at heart. But at least Ed made Bruce happy.
I want to also mention that HB2 was signed into law by our asshole governor, Pat McCrory, after every democrat in the senate walked out in protest. He still signed it into law later that night, knowing this had happened. If you are a NC resident, you need to do what is right and vote this fucker out of office.
Here is a quote from a article in The Charlotte Observer:
How did Democrats vote on HB2?
The vote in the N.C. House was 84-25 after three hours of debate, with all Republicans voting for it and 11 Democrats breaking ranks with their party to support the bill. In the Senate, the vote was 32-0 after the Democrats walked out in protest, saying they had not been allowed to participate in the process. Gov. Pat McCrory, a Republican, then signed it into law.
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article68401147.html#storylink=cpy
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
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But perhaps you in particular love their music even though you are consciously disagreeing with their messages... I personally don't go out of my way to repeatedly consume art for listening pleasure that has a message I disagree with, but i suppose that's possible.
I just can't wait for Philly damn it..lets go!
'10- MSG 1-2 '11- PJ20
'12- MIA; DeLuna '13- Wrigley; Pitt; Brooklyn 1-2; Philly 1-2; Baltimore; Seattle
'14- Denver '16- Philly 1-2; MSG 2
'17- Pilgrimage Music Fest (Eddie)
'18- Fenway
"I'll stop trying to make a difference... No way." What would the Eddie Vedder of 1998 think of the Eddie Vedder of 2016 if he stopped trying to make a difference?
Some people are built where everything they do has to be political. I don't believe that. I understand that Pearl Jam is like that, and usually it just involves a rant at a show. This time it involved canceling a show and that is where it pissed me off to rant for days. Ha. I would bet there are a lot of family get togethers where everything is fine until someone brings up politics or religion. Then people start arguing. They don't disown each other because they disagree, although they may get pissed off and not talk to each other for a few weeks.
I really don't have opportunity to listen to music where I disagree with the message... I don't know I have ever really heard any songs with a right wing message, lol. I definitely don't listen to music about hiw death and destruction is cool because that's just stupid. I don't like the sound of death metal. Never heard a song about a conservative economic system, hahaha, I definitely am not into religious rock, not into those white supremacist bands... Show me some good music where I actually might disagree with the message and I'll tell you how I feel. I honestly can't even think of any. Most good music has a message that I like and agree with because I lean far left and so does most music. But i can't imagine hearing a song about how capitalism is awesome or how abortion is wrong or other right wing hot button issues and thinking, "wow, this song is awesome even though the message is idiotic!" If i want to know about opposing issues, which i do, i'll read the news, go to the AMT, etc. Not spend time listening to shitty, weird, right wing or hateful music that are in direct oppostion to my views or my personality.
As for the Ticketmaster thing vs. this. I think with the Ticketmaster thing, the band had the fans' best interests in mind even though in the end it was a failure. Here, while they're backing a good enough cause, to cancel two days before is kinda like "eh...fuck 'em if they're pissed."
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
I can't beleive you can say that The Wall isn't a political album with a straight face. That's like saying Bu$hleaguer isn't political.