They most assuredly are a business. They are incorporated as such. The band are owners, not employees. Businesses make decisions like this all the time. Sports leagues have moved events out of states to protest laws that they see as discriminatory.
Offering a full refund is not "blatantly screw[ing]" over your paying customers.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
Link to where games have changed location based on protest 48 hours prior to the game?
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
I own a business. I've fired clients for unethical or stupid behavior.
I didn't realize politicians were going to the shows.
The point is that I forego profit for things I believe in.
I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
Well some corporations threatened to pack up and leave the state, and others threatened the same in Georgia, and it worked. So I guess some businesses do indeed do that, risking their employees jobs, etc....
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
I own a business. I've fired clients for unethical or stupid behavior.
I didn't realize politicians were going to the shows.
The point is that I forego profit for things I believe in.
But are you firing clients that did nothing wrong? Are you treating clients poorly on purpose because of something they have nothing to do with and they know it? Pearl Jam has a monopoly so they can get away with it.
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KV4053
Mike's side, crushed up against the stage Posts: 1,477
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
Well some corporations threatened to pack up and leave the state, and others threatened the same in Georgia, and it worked. So I guess some businesses do indeed do that, risking their employees jobs, etc....
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
I own a business. I've fired clients for unethical or stupid behavior.
I didn't realize politicians were going to the shows.
The point is that I forego profit for things I believe in.
But are you firing clients that did nothing wrong? Are you treating clients poorly on purpose because of something they have nothing to do with and they know it? Pearl Jam has a monopoly so they can get away with it.
No Code is great. Let's just agree on something.
I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
Well some corporations threatened to pack up and leave the state, and others threatened the same in Georgia, and it worked. So I guess some businesses do indeed do that, risking their employees jobs, etc....
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
I own a business. I've fired clients for unethical or stupid behavior.
I didn't realize politicians were going to the shows.
The point is that I forego profit for things I believe in.
But are you firing clients that did nothing wrong? Are you treating clients poorly on purpose because of something they have nothing to do with and they know it? Pearl Jam has a monopoly so they can get away with it.
"Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band?" I, personally, am a fan of this band for their music - in spite of their politics. I don't choose the musicians I listen to based on their politics any more than I vote for a politician because he's great song and dance man.
"Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band?" I, personally, am a fan of this band for their music - in spite of their politics. I don't choose the musicians I listen to based on their politics any more than I vote for a politician because he's great song and dance man.
Their music is very political in nature though... Do you just choose not to listen to that half of their catalog?
At this point, it's just a bitchfest. No point bringing up any evidence that contradicts statements in here. Time to check out of this thread. See some you in Columbia tomorrow!
I have a suggestion for those telling fellow fan club members " It's only money ". Pick out a random member who lost out on the NC show , and write them a check for all money lost. This way you feel all warm and fuzzy inside and everyone is happy. After all ....its only money , right ?
Posted this in another thread, my thoughts on the discussion:
I love the band and generally stand with them in their political beliefs as a Californian....still, people have the right to vent about this. It's astounding to me that some of you will turn this into a witch hunt for the people that feel they got ripped off either directly, or indirectly. They have a tremendous reason to be upset.
Imagine the outrage if this occurred in Boston for the Fenway shows. People would be absolutely livid. It's not even a thought, but how much would someone traveling to see those shows be out? But, since it's NC, everyone is just kinda "Oh well....that's PJ.....get over it....can't wait for the East Coast shows "
People should be upset, this sets an ugly precedent.
I do wonder if the multi-millionaire band members even know about non-refundable hotel rooms, airline change fees etc. Their world is very different than ours. They haven't booked their own flights or hotel rooms in decades (if ever). For all we know they might have thought two days notice was plenty of advance warning to change/cancel travel plans.
Posted this in another thread, my thoughts on the discussion:
I love the band and generally stand with them in their political beliefs as a Californian....still, people have the right to vent about this. It's astounding to me that some of you will turn this into a witch hunt for the people that feel they got ripped off either directly, or indirectly. They have a tremendous reason to be upset.
Imagine the outrage if this occurred in Boston for the Fenway shows. People would be absolutely livid. It's not even a thought, but how much would someone traveling to see those shows be out? But, since it's NC, everyone is just kinda "Oh well....that's PJ.....get over it....can't wait for the East Coast shows "
People should be upset, this sets an ugly precedent.
Unreal that people who post on a rock band's message board 10s of thousands of times say its 'too bad' and 'its only a rock concert'... while saying they are disappointed with people here and it is 'sad'.
People are crushed by this. This show (and all shows) are cherished by people and they anticipate and plan the show for months and months. They get an emotional high and a level of excitement when they get their tickets whether through the lotto or general sale.
Then the Bruce thing. People got worried, but I think the general fear was lifted because we didn't think that Pearl Jam would do their fans like that (please spare me the theory that the band has 'no idea' that people travel to their shows). Then this news was blind-siding two days before the show. It is unique that it was completely avoidable and the effect is very debatable. Not an illness, travel malfunction, venue problem.
I wasn't going, but completely feel for those who cant go. Furthermore. Those who are disappointed and/or disagree with the decision can also be in favor of human rights. Its very unfair to paint everyone into a corner like that,
Thanks PJ, you did the right thing. Although we had tickets for Raleigh we were rewarded otherwise. We were able to spend the day with Jonah, an EB victim, who is the son of one of my wifes co-workers. His spirit is incredible, his wit unmatched and his hope in finding a cure resonates to all he meets. Oh and he just turned 7. Brave is beyond words. As much as he smiles and laughs, it is impossible to not do tge same around him. Smile would be appropriate for Jonah in Columbia!
They are forever hypocrites. You can accept that as being a big deal or not. To me, its not much different than how politicians lie and are hypocrites. Still great music...put on great shows but their activism and political message is phony as hell.
I can't help but wonder what a 26 yr. old Eddie would have thought of a 51 yr. old eddie cancelling a show and disappointing his fans. Listen to what he says to the people watching the show from the owners box at Soldier Field. 1995. He was very anti elite then. He's become what he used to hate.
Comments
I, personally, am a fan of this band for their music - in spite of their politics.
I don't choose the musicians I listen to based on their politics any more than I vote for a politician because he's great song and dance man.
Tomorrow night is going to be fucking epic.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Agree about tomorrow.
I love the band and generally stand with them in their political beliefs as a Californian....still, people have the right to vent about this. It's astounding to me that some of you will turn this into a witch hunt for the people that feel they got ripped off either directly, or indirectly. They have a tremendous reason to be upset.
Imagine the outrage if this occurred in Boston for the Fenway shows. People would be absolutely livid. It's not even a thought, but how much would someone traveling to see those shows be out? But, since it's NC, everyone is just kinda "Oh well....that's PJ.....get over it....can't wait for the East Coast shows "
People should be upset, this sets an ugly precedent.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
im with the poster above, the next show should take the roof off ......cant wait for this show to get back on the road....
I'm fortunate to have tickets to 3 more shows so I am really looking forward to those. Going to try to tune in tonight.
Unreal that people who post on a rock band's message board 10s of thousands of times say its 'too bad' and 'its only a rock concert'... while saying they are disappointed with people here and it is 'sad'.
People are crushed by this. This show (and all shows) are cherished by people and they anticipate and plan the show for months and months. They get an emotional high and a level of excitement when they get their tickets whether through the lotto or general sale.
Then the Bruce thing. People got worried, but I think the general fear was lifted because we didn't think that Pearl Jam would do their fans like that (please spare me the theory that the band has 'no idea' that people travel to their shows). Then this news was blind-siding two days before the show. It is unique that it was completely avoidable and the effect is very debatable. Not an illness, travel malfunction, venue problem.
I wasn't going, but completely feel for those who cant go. Furthermore. Those who are disappointed and/or disagree with the decision can also be in favor of human rights. Its very unfair to paint everyone into a corner like that,
Thanks,
Tim