You really think that they should have consulted with their fans before making a decision about a statement they personally want to make? They are still the guy's on stage and deciding to go up there. They can cancel a show without asking permission, whatever the reason.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You really think that they should have consulted with their fans before making a decision about a statement they personally want to make? They are still the guy's on stage and deciding to go up there. They can cancel a show without asking permission, whatever the reason.
No, I think they should have played the show they invited people to come to (for a fee as well).
But again, I don't think it is brave or give any credit to Bruce and Eddie to make a political stand by using their fans. Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
Frankly and honestly, I really hope a lot of people that are so unhappy about PJ's decision will not renew their PJ10 club memberships so the rest of us can move up in seniority. Grow a set of balls and make it so.
I won GA lottery tickets for the 4/20 show. Like many others, I was devastated when I received the cancellation email on Monday.
As a happy, successful man, PJ has been an intricate part of my life for 25 years. Their music is poetic, and their shows are therapeutic. Because of PJ, I've developed global friendships and attended shows all over the country. Without PJ, I would not be the friend, husband, son etc. I am today. They offer hope and excitement, among many other things.
This band was put on earth for a reason... For the greater good of many lives...
PJ didn't cancel 4/20 because of me or the other 20 thousand fans. They canceled the show on the state of NC due to their despicable, discriminatory laws.
Forever grateful fan, See you in Columbia!
I double that ... great wording and a perfect sumup, reflecting also my point of view on this wonderful band
thanks alot!
there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
Frankly and honestly, I really hope a lot of people that are so unhappy about PJ's decision will not renew their PJ10 club memberships so the rest of us can move up in seniority. Grow a set of balls and make it so.
The number one most tired type of response on this message board ever.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Because an unjust state law passed behind closed doors and soon to be repealed after being in effect for a couple months is the same as the Civil Rights movement. Over dramatize much?
Because an unjust state law passed behind closed doors and soon to be repealed after being in effect for a couple months is the same as the Civil Rights movement. Over dramatize much?
Resistance to discriminatory laws is the essence of the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement is ongoing. It encompasses efforts to resist laws like the North Carolina law. The civil rights movement is not only about race.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now. All it takes to make the money back is the band to say "let's play three shows at MSG this year instead of two" or "let's play add another festival". It isn't the same as working 12 more months to build the vacation budget back up.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Incidentally, you also say that they didn't sacrifice their time. I am quite sure that these artists and their management spent time considering what to do and executing their decisions. There are also costs associated with last-minute changes to a carefully laid-out itinerary for an operation that involves dozens of people moving from city to city.
If people are stuck in NC for awhile you can drive 2 hours south and see Scott Stapp at Hooligans on 5/4. He didn't disappoint his fans and cancel. :-)
Springfield 4/6/94, Boston 4/6/94, Hartford 10/2/96, New York 9/11/98, Hartford 9/13/98, Mansfield 8/30/00, Boston 9/28/04, Reading 10/1/04, Quebec City 9/20/05, Boston 5/24/06, Hartford 5/13/06, New York 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08 Philadelphia 10/31/09, Hartford 10/15/10, Boston 10/17/10, East Troy 9/3/11, East Troy 9/4/11, Missoula 9/30/12, Worcester 10/15/13, Hartford 10/25/13, Charlottesville 10/29/13, St. Paul 10/19/14, New York 9/26/15, Quebec City 5/5/16, Boston 8/5/16, Boston 9/2/18, Boston 9/4/18, Quebec City 9/1/22, Camden 9/14/22, Oklahoma City 9/20/22
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
If people are stuck in NC for awhile you can drive 2 hours south and see Scott Stapp at Hooligans on 5/4. He didn't disappoint his fans and cancel. :-)
Lol. If PJ really wants to make the world a better place, they should convince him to cancel.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
I think they made the decision because Bruce did. It has no effect on the law. The courts will repeal it and anyone that follows this stuff knows that.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
Feds circuit court just ruled against a Virginia school board trying to do this in a case yesterday
That's the real kicker here..... This law was doomed from the get-go.
PJ didn't have to cancel to force action, the wheels were already in motion. That's why some people think this is a little bit of grandstanding / posturing on behalf of the band.
Right, there is more than just boycotting to get rid of a stupid law.
Sure but want to have chance to be effective boycott way to go.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
I own a business. I've fired clients for unethical or stupid behavior.
I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
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KV4053
Mike's side, crushed up against the stage Posts: 1,477
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
They most assuredly are a business. They are incorporated as such. The band are owners, not employees. Businesses make decisions like this all the time. Sports leagues have moved events out of states to protest laws that they see as discriminatory.
Offering a full refund is not "blatantly screw[ing]" over your paying customers.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
I own a business. I've fired clients for unethical or stupid behavior.
I didn't realize politicians were going to the shows.
This is not a good analogy. This is not their job. This is their business. They are the owners of the business. They almost certainly will be required by contract to pay their employees (e.g., their road crew) what they would have earned despite the fact that this show did not take place.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
There's no guarantee of that. It may be a small sacrifice in your eyes, but they are sacrificing something. Whether you agree with the decision or not, it is silly to say that the artists are "sacrificing nothing" by cancelling shows from which they make a profit.
Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
They didn't sacrifice anything? They make money off of these shows.
They'll play another show. They'll get the money back. Ed even said at PJ20 how easy it is to be in Pearl Jam now.
What the band sacrificed is little in comparison to the impact to the 15,000 fans the band used as pawns. Not even close. Playing a concert is their job for crying out loud. Who of us wouldn't love to not go to work in protest of something and know we can just work another shift in a year or two to make up for it?
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
They are NOT operating it as a business. I can't think of any business that blatantly screws over and uses its paying customers for political purposes. And if there are examples, I'm sure all of you on this board already hate those businesses.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
Well some corporations threatened to pack up and leave the state, and others threatened the same in Georgia, and it worked. So I guess some businesses do indeed do that, risking their employees jobs, etc....
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
But again, I don't think it is brave or give any credit to Bruce and Eddie to make a political stand by using their fans. Bruce and Eddie did not sacrifice anything. They didn't even sacrifice their time.
I double that ... great wording and a perfect sumup, reflecting also my point of view on this wonderful band
thanks alot!
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
Agreed
http://m.morganton.com/opinion/it-s-up-to-us-not-musicians-to-fight-for/article_3be9ed26-0741-11e6-9550-afa0c26ac27e.html?mode=jqm
Boston 10/17/10, East Troy 9/3/11, East Troy 9/4/11, Missoula 9/30/12, Worcester 10/15/13, Hartford 10/25/13, Charlottesville 10/29/13,
St. Paul 10/19/14, New York 9/26/15, Quebec City 5/5/16, Boston 8/5/16, Boston 9/2/18, Boston 9/4/18, Quebec City 9/1/22, Camden 9/14/22, Oklahoma City 9/20/22
At the end of the day PJ got some more street cred out of this and more food to feed the ego.
In a corrupt world, cynicism is often justified. But is it justified here? What has this band done to make you cynical about their motives here? Do you really believe that the band made this difficult decision, which actually does take money out of their pockets, out of anything other than a sincere belief that their actions would help in the effort to undo an unjust and discriminatory law? Do you really think they made this difficult decision for "street cred." If so, why are you a fan of this band? You don't have to agree with all of their choices-- I don't-- but I don't think they have done anything that justifies questioning their motives. Do you disagree? I'm interested to know.
I am posting this much because I think the band screwed up and need to know it. I'm not going to stop being a fan but this time they went to far in using their position of wealth and power.
Offering a full refund is not "blatantly screw[ing]" over your paying customers.