All of your comments are true, but I believe in probabilities, particularly when it comes to my kids. There are exceptions.. Bill Gates never finished college, etc. And if things didn't work out when you were in HS or early college, there's no reason to give up because there are opportunities in other areas if you don't finish. But your probability is better for a better job if you have a 'practical' degree. And it's even higher if you have a practical degree from a school with an excellent reputation in that subject.
EddieC - I'm with you all the way, we need all types of people. Like I said earlier, my degrees are in history and english. I was lucky enough to get an entry level job at a corporation that was about to explode. What was a bit frustrating for me is that I worked for 6 years climbing the ranks to middle management when people coming out of UVA, William & Mary, Georgetown (I live in VA) were being hired in at the level I'd busted ass to get to. Now the difference is that I passed them out of hard work eventually.
I'm telling EHBacon what I've learned and the advice I'm giving to my kids as they work their way through HS. When they finish college, my advice will change based on their situation when we get there.
EH,I echo what Lolo said.We are a bunch of cranky old fuckers.Like walking into a red ant hill. I've put 3 thru college.2 are still there.We know all about your struggles and commitment and I can tell you all of us Moms and Dads on here are in your corner and pulling for you,regardless of the debate de jour.We are not as disconnected from youth as you may think.
Just remember. A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.And I'll echo something my 25 yo son said recently when we were discussing this stuff."No one has ever asked to see my degree or diploma in any interview.just a piece of paper.How you interview and your personality makes more of a difference"
I know someone who never went to college, but his resume said he did and is very high up in a very big tech company. All because of that first job he applied for.
Yeah, well you don't get to do that anymore. Every mid size company does 'degree validation' today. Before we hire anyone, we have a company that validates the education experience.
I don't think enough parents preach the other options for their kids enough.Specialty schools teaching Trades,make up artist and fashion designbroadcasting,Production of music and video,culinary,Mechanical,Nursing,etc.Although not traditional educationThis fields can be in line with a young persons passion and with a good work ethic and some basic bookkeeping skills you can turn a trade into a well paying career and be a professional making a very good living.
I don't think enough parents preach the other options for their kids enough.Specialty schools teaching Trades,make up artist and fashion designbroadcasting,Production of music and video,culinary,Mechanical,Nursing,etc.Although not traditional educationThis fields can be in line with a young persons passion and with a good work ethic and some basic bookkeeping skills you can turn a trade into a well paying career and be a professional making a very good living.
you cons keep busting up the unions and there will be nobody going to trade schools.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
apprenticeship programs: heavy equipment operator, heating & cooling, electrical work, carpentry, tooling, diesel mechanic & so on. railroad, railroad & railroad. truck driver, truck driver & truck driver.
i know a dude who literally walked onto a construction site (with zero iron worker experience) where they were erecting a building in kansas city. he was asked two questions
1. do you smoke pot? 2. do you drink beer? bring a cooler fulla beer every friday & you got a job
he isn't scared of heights & he makes great money & only works about 1/2 the year or so. does anyone these days just walk up to a guy & ask for a job?
So we're talking education now. Here's an eye opener, go check out Where To Invade Next and see how other countries handle education. (Hint - it's not longer hours of studying And homework). And these other countries outrank the US by far. Worth checking out.
I have a question for the OP. what new (or increased) taxes are you referring to, specifically. federal income tax only? rates were recently increased. are there proposals to increase them again, or other legislature regarding tax credits etc. that you are referring to?
EH,I echo what Lolo said.We are a bunch of cranky old fuckers.Like walking into a red ant hill. I've put 3 thru college.2 are still there.We know all about your struggles and commitment and I can tell you all of us Moms and Dads on here are in your corner and pulling for you,regardless of the debate de jour.We are not as disconnected from youth as you may think.
Just remember. A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.And I'll echo something my 25 yo son said recently when we were discussing this stuff."No one has ever asked to see my degree or diploma in any interview.just a piece of paper.How you interview and your personality makes more of a difference"
I know someone who never went to college, but his resume said he did and is very high up in a very big tech company. All because of that first job he applied for.
Yeah that would never happen for someone in my generation. That's great that generations before us got to do that, but now the world is just simply expecting more of us.
And to people who think that it isn't harder to get into good colleges now, you need to look at simple stats. More people are applying now than ever, which brings in more competition and a better applicant field. The worlds changing and not for the better, the least people can do is not be ignorant towards it.
Listen to some of my music here (if you want to):
[url="My soundcloud"]
EH,I echo what Lolo said.We are a bunch of cranky old fuckers.Like walking into a red ant hill. I've put 3 thru college.2 are still there.We know all about your struggles and commitment and I can tell you all of us Moms and Dads on here are in your corner and pulling for you,regardless of the debate de jour.We are not as disconnected from youth as you may think.
Just remember. A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.And I'll echo something my 25 yo son said recently when we were discussing this stuff."No one has ever asked to see my degree or diploma in any interview.just a piece of paper.How you interview and your personality makes more of a difference"
I know someone who never went to college, but his resume said he did and is very high up in a very big tech company. All because of that first job he applied for.
Yeah that would never happen for someone in my generation. That's great that generations before us got to do that, but now the world is just simply expecting more of us.
And to people who think that it isn't harder to get into good colleges now, you need to look at simple stats. More people are applying now than ever, which brings in more competition and a better applicant field. The worlds changing and not for the better, the least people can do is not be ignorant towards it.
I am not a 65 year old retiree. Depending on the company, it can most certainly happen
EH,I echo what Lolo said.We are a bunch of cranky old fuckers.Like walking into a red ant hill. I've put 3 thru college.2 are still there.We know all about your struggles and commitment and I can tell you all of us Moms and Dads on here are in your corner and pulling for you,regardless of the debate de jour.We are not as disconnected from youth as you may think.
Just remember. A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.And I'll echo something my 25 yo son said recently when we were discussing this stuff."No one has ever asked to see my degree or diploma in any interview.just a piece of paper.How you interview and your personality makes more of a difference"
I know someone who never went to college, but his resume said he did and is very high up in a very big tech company. All because of that first job he applied for.
Yeah that would never happen for someone in my generation. That's great that generations before us got to do that, but now the world is just simply expecting more of us.
And to people who think that it isn't harder to get into good colleges now, you need to look at simple stats. More people are applying now than ever, which brings in more competition and a better applicant field. The worlds changing and not for the better, the least people can do is not be ignorant towards it.
EH is right. It's ungodly expensive, bachelor's are a dime a dozen, almost equivalent to a HS diploma for those coming into the work force. The trade jobs are great and I have tremendous respect for them, but I would not want my son working construction at 50, or hanging drywall. Someone has to do it and I respect that work, but I'm pushing my kids for something different. Factory jobs are too risky long term. They will be automated or outsourced.
Proof please to your claim on what pays for the GI Bill. Because back when I was in the money I had to pay to get it funded the program. It may have changed since they increased it after I got out, but this is not correct on how it was back then.
Taxes paid for GI bill. Did you have a side job while in the military and used that monkey to pay a separate fund that fully funded the GI bill? No.
perhaps this is the answer to many, many things.....simply get a side monkey to help make ends meet...
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I am a VP and hire people frequently with limited experience and basic degrees for entry level jobs. It is about the drive, a willingness to learn, and work ethic -- if you can demonstrate those things during the interview I would prefer to hire people just out of school. Cheaper, more potential, more energy, no bad habits to re-teach, etc.
Keep your head up -- an amazingly stressful time of your life and just keep hammering away. You will do well.
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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And, fwiw, I do think it is more challenging to get into "good" schools today -- the numbers strongly support that.
Proof please to your claim on what pays for the GI Bill. Because back when I was in the money I had to pay to get it funded the program. It may have changed since they increased it after I got out, but this is not correct on how it was back then.
Taxes paid for GI bill. Did you have a side job while in the military and used that monkey to pay a separate fund that fully funded the GI bill? No.
perhaps this is the answer to many, many things.....simply get a side monkey to help make ends meet...
I'm thinking bigger: get a bunch of side monkeys and kick ass.
Pushing your kids into anything that rings of importance to you but has no happiness for them will only last so long. Just remember that. We need to let our kids learn for themselves and take risks and learn what failure is. I agree with getting a good base college education. But we can't dictate their lives Or make their choices for them. They have to find their own happiness and a way to make a living.
I am a VP and hire people frequently with limited experience and basic degrees for entry level jobs. It is about the drive, a willingness to learn, and work ethic -- if you can demonstrate those things during the interview I would prefer to hire people just out of school. Cheaper, more potential, more energy, no bad habits to re-teach, etc.
Keep your head up -- an amazingly stressful time of your life and just keep hammering away. You will do well.
This is precisely right. You hire them right out of school and you watch them. People with the right work ethic and can do most jobs in a general business environment (not highly technical work like programming, accounting, etc.). The cream rises and you invest in that person. They are more motivated and are willing to do almost anything you need done.
Proof please to your claim on what pays for the GI Bill. Because back when I was in the money I had to pay to get it funded the program. It may have changed since they increased it after I got out, but this is not correct on how it was back then.
Taxes paid for GI bill. Did you have a side job while in the military and used that monkey to pay a separate fund that fully funded the GI bill? No.
perhaps this is the answer to many, many things.....simply get a side monkey to help make ends meet...
I'm thinking bigger: get a bunch of side monkeys and kick ass.
A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.
I've always said that I just wish that I followed in pop's shoes and apprenticed with him to be an auto mechanic. I'd be fucking rolling in it instead of more than $200,000 in debt that will basically be passed on to my kids when I die. Following my bliss was so not worth it.
A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.
I've always said that I just wish that I followed in pop's shoes and apprenticed with him to be an auto mechanic. I'd be fucking rolling in it instead of more than $200,000 in debt that will basically be passed on to my kids when I die. Following my bliss was so not worth it.
So your preoccupation is with money and not happiness, huh? The American Way.
A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.
I've always said that I just wish that I followed in pop's shoes and apprenticed with him to be an auto mechanic. I'd be fucking rolling in it instead of more than $200,000 in debt that will basically be passed on to my kids when I die. Following my bliss was so not worth it.
So your preoccupation is with money and not happiness, huh? The American Way.
your comment is not nice and is unwarranted
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,643
A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.
I've always said that I just wish that I followed in pop's shoes and apprenticed with him to be an auto mechanic. I'd be fucking rolling in it instead of more than $200,000 in debt that will basically be passed on to my kids when I die. Following my bliss was so not worth it.
So your preoccupation is with money and not happiness, huh? The American Way.
Perhaps he is unhappy with the debt he indicates he has Vs. what the schooling the debt went toward provided him. How do you know anything about his life to make that comment? Judgmental, assumptive, and mean. The 'AMT way.'
A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.
I've always said that I just wish that I followed in pop's shoes and apprenticed with him to be an auto mechanic. I'd be fucking rolling in it instead of more than $200,000 in debt that will basically be passed on to my kids when I die. Following my bliss was so not worth it.
So your preoccupation is with money and not happiness, huh? The American Way.
I was being facetious about the "rolling in it" part, but I thank you for your judgmental note. It reminded me of why I steer clear of AMT.
But to recap: It was my preoccupation with happiness that got me into an insurmountable (and growing) amount of debt that now depresses the hell out of me and makes me feel like a worthless piece of shit every day I draw breath.
A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.
I've always said that I just wish that I followed in pop's shoes and apprenticed with him to be an auto mechanic. I'd be fucking rolling in it instead of more than $200,000 in debt that will basically be passed on to my kids when I die. Following my bliss was so not worth it.
So your preoccupation is with money and not happiness, huh? The American Way.
I was being facetious about the "rolling in it" part, but I thank you for your judgmental note. It reminded me of why I steer clear of AMT.
But to recap: It was my preoccupation with happiness that got me into an insurmountable (and growing) amount of debt that now depresses the hell out of me and makes me feel like a worthless piece of shit every day I draw breath.
Thanks again.
It was a shitty comment and you're not alone with the debt so don't feel worthless. Unfortunately the reality is that you have to use your 20's to 40's to build up what you can, so you can try to relax in your 50's and beyond.
I have a question for the OP. what new (or increased) taxes are you referring to, specifically. federal income tax only? rates were recently increased. are there proposals to increase them again, or other legislature regarding tax credits etc. that you are referring to?
It is federal rates I am concerned about.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.
I've always said that I just wish that I followed in pop's shoes and apprenticed with him to be an auto mechanic. I'd be fucking rolling in it instead of more than $200,000 in debt that will basically be passed on to my kids when I die. Following my bliss was so not worth it.
So your preoccupation is with money and not happiness, huh? The American Way.
I was being facetious about the "rolling in it" part, but I thank you for your judgmental note. It reminded me of why I steer clear of AMT.
But to recap: It was my preoccupation with happiness that got me into an insurmountable (and growing) amount of debt that now depresses the hell out of me and makes me feel like a worthless piece of shit every day I draw breath.
Thanks again.
Don't go, Dan. I appreciate your comments, and can totally relate to your struggle. That's needed perspective. I'd rather the person making the shitty comment to you take a break from the AMT and go get laid. There is sure a lot of pent up hostility here this week. Between this thread and the Scalia thread people seem to have bailed on civility and reason.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
A degree is good and all but A combine tractor mechanic working for Catapiller makes 150,000 a year.My point is There are many good options other then 200k in dept.So no need to stress.You can still be very successful without a college degree.Hard work and good mind will take you wherever you need to go.If your passion needs a degree then go get it.But many paths you can follow.
I've always said that I just wish that I followed in pop's shoes and apprenticed with him to be an auto mechanic. I'd be fucking rolling in it instead of more than $200,000 in debt that will basically be passed on to my kids when I die. Following my bliss was so not worth it.
To be preoccupied with money is an American thing. Regretting finding your bliss is not something you're going to regret on your deathbed. Most people, on their deathbed, regret working too much. And not enjoying life. Enjoy every day because you don't know when your last will be.
BTW, it's a crime that the government is robbing us blind, forcing us to be preoccupied with money because we are in debt. But we are looking to vote in the same crooked politicians that are robbing us blind! If you're angry about it don't vote for the same politician working for corporations and not you !! Vote for something better! It's a crime the college tuition is sky high and in other countries it's not. We are not the greatest country when we are all in debt. Think about that.
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EddieC - I'm with you all the way, we need all types of people. Like I said earlier, my degrees are in history and english. I was lucky enough to get an entry level job at a corporation that was about to explode. What was a bit frustrating for me is that I worked for 6 years climbing the ranks to middle management when people coming out of UVA, William & Mary, Georgetown (I live in VA) were being hired in at the level I'd busted ass to get to. Now the difference is that I passed them out of hard work eventually.
I'm telling EHBacon what I've learned and the advice I'm giving to my kids as they work their way through HS. When they finish college, my advice will change based on their situation when we get there.
Drivel indeed!
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i know a dude who literally walked onto a construction site (with zero iron worker experience) where they were erecting a building in kansas city. he was asked two questions
1. do you smoke pot?
2. do you drink beer?
bring a cooler fulla beer every friday & you got a job
he isn't scared of heights & he makes great money & only works about 1/2 the year or so. does anyone these days just walk up to a guy & ask for a job?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
And to people who think that it isn't harder to get into good colleges now, you need to look at simple stats. More people are applying now than ever, which brings in more competition and a better applicant field. The worlds changing and not for the better, the least people can do is not be ignorant towards it.
Factory jobs are too risky long term. They will be automated or outsourced.
It is about the drive, a willingness to learn, and work ethic -- if you can demonstrate those things during the interview I would prefer to hire people just out of school. Cheaper, more potential, more energy, no bad habits to re-teach, etc.
Keep your head up -- an amazingly stressful time of your life and just keep hammering away. You will do well.
let's do this
Judgmental, assumptive, and mean. The 'AMT way.'
But to recap: It was my preoccupation with happiness that got me into an insurmountable (and growing) amount of debt that now depresses the hell out of me and makes me feel like a worthless piece of shit every day I draw breath.
Thanks again.
Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
Sorry to those offended. But he said it himself. I didn't say it to be mean I said it to be hurtful, it's an obvious statement. To be preoccupied with money is an American thing. Regretting finding your bliss is not something you're going to regret on your deathbed. Most people, on their deathbed, regret working too much. And not enjoying life. Enjoy every day because you don't know when your last will be.