Why should I pay for all this extra stuff Bernie and Hillary want to do? I am a self made man. I went into the Marine Corps at 19. I earned my GI Bill and used that to better myself in my late 20's when I went back to school. I took a bus for 6 hours to get from school to work, slept a few hours and repeated that process the next day. I worked hard to get where I am at. Anyone could have done what I did. No one gave me anything. So when I see Bernie and Hillary wanting to pay for all this extra stuff I say fuck that. They will push me down to raise others up. I say hell no. They can fund their communist plans in another country.
Say yes to the American dream again. Say yes to Rubio in 2016! He may be a robot but at least he gets it. Or his people do, either way Rubio in 2016!
Self made? Raised by wolves in the wilderness?
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
It would be good if there were a middle ground but I do not think there is - and this is due to the layout of our economy currently. On one side you have the people who pay next to nothing in taxes in the US....and on the other side you have those who pay an annual tax that exceeds what the average American makes in a year. (Put aside the destitute and the elite rich.) Could be that an issue raised by the vanishing middle class is that there are no people with middle class attitudes/realities. Yes, there are people in both areas that believe that the average person should surrender a higher percentage of what they earn for the greater good. Yes, there are people in both areas that see sense in everyone paying the same percentage -- and if you make more then the pot gets bigger for those in need.
What I do not understand are the two extremes -- those who believe they should pay no tax if they make very little money, and those that believe that those who make the most should pay almost all of the tax. In my opinion both of those views are flawed. I have some different views when it comes to taxes to the majority of posters here, and I am not going to sink (rise?) to the level of trying to convince everyone that I am right. Here to share opinions. Fuck you. Make up your own mind. This is what I think and if you agree, great. If you don't, great. OP has a right to share what he thinks and is not obligated to try and convince everyone that his way is right. Some agree, others do not.
It would be good if there were a middle ground but I do not think there is - and this is due to the layout of our economy currently. On one side you have the people who pay next to nothing in taxes in the US....and on the other side you have those who pay an annual tax that exceeds what the average American makes in a year. (Put aside the destitute and the elite rich.) Could be that an issue raised by the vanishing middle class is that there are no people with middle class attitudes/realities. Yes, there are people in both areas that believe that the average person should surrender a higher percentage of what they earn for the greater good. Yes, there are people in both areas that see sense in everyone paying the same percentage -- and if you make more then the pot gets bigger for those in need.
What I do not understand are the two extremes -- those who believe they should pay no tax if they make very little money, and those that believe that those who make the most should pay almost all of the tax. In my opinion both of those views are flawed. I have some different views when it comes to taxes to the majority of posters here, and I am not going to sink (rise?) to the level of trying to convince everyone that I am right. Here to share opinions. Fuck you. Make up your own mind. This is what I think and if you agree, great. If you don't, great. OP has a right to share what he thinks and is not obligated to try and convince everyone that his way is right. Some agree, others do not.
"there aint gonna be any middle any more"
Then what the hell is the point? If you are only trying to rant your feelings and not debate then why post in a place reserved for "reasoned debate"????
It would be good if there were a middle ground but I do not think there is - and this is due to the layout of our economy currently. On one side you have the people who pay next to nothing in taxes in the US....and on the other side you have those who pay an annual tax that exceeds what the average American makes in a year. (Put aside the destitute and the elite rich.) Could be that an issue raised by the vanishing middle class is that there are no people with middle class attitudes/realities. Yes, there are people in both areas that believe that the average person should surrender a higher percentage of what they earn for the greater good. Yes, there are people in both areas that see sense in everyone paying the same percentage -- and if you make more then the pot gets bigger for those in need.
What I do not understand are the two extremes -- those who believe they should pay no tax if they make very little money, and those that believe that those who make the most should pay almost all of the tax. In my opinion both of those views are flawed. I have some different views when it comes to taxes to the majority of posters here, and I am not going to sink (rise?) to the level of trying to convince everyone that I am right. Here to share opinions. Fuck you. Make up your own mind. This is what I think and if you agree, great. If you don't, great. OP has a right to share what he thinks and is not obligated to try and convince everyone that his way is right. Some agree, others do not.
"there aint gonna be any middle any more"
Well played as always.
Not really.
It sounds as if he's disappointed the OP's rant wasn't left to stand. It sounds as if he's not really clear on the idea of what discourse really is.
I'd agree with him on the aspect of everyone proportionately paying their share of taxes (if that's what he was saying because it wasn't the clearest of entries).
And I'm not sure about the 'f**k you' either. F**k who? Me? Then f**k you too.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,643
edited February 2016
Directed toward anyone who feels like their opinion needs to be everyone else's...and conversely that my goal here should be to convince everyone else to think how I think.
Accept that there are differences in opinion, and that they can be well thought out positions informed by a different reality.
If you make $250,000 per year and I make $45,000 per year it is foolish to think that we have the same perspective when it comes to taxation. What would I know about your reality when I pay $9,000 in taxes and you pay $87,000 in taxes?? (Based on 2015 tax table in NJ...Fed, Medicare, SSI, State estimated)
So the arguments that many make above are strained. Roads, education, military, health care, SSI, etc....both of us pay towards those.
In this example, I happen to pay 20% toward those items while you pay nearly 35%. Is this fair? Up for interpretation, I guess. In my opinion, no. Would I expect that I have the same opinion on this that you do? Ummm, no. Should your vote count more than mine, since you pay an 866% increase on the taxes that I pay? Would I expect you to be more concerned than me about increasing tax rates? Who is more likely to see their % of income toward taxes increase? The person who pays 20% or the person who pays 866% more than that total?
------------------------------------------------------- Sorry rgambs, we have a different interpretation on the description I guess of AMT. I can see where you get to your position as you read it. You left out the 'discussion' part. I read it as an exchange of ideas. No issues with someone wanting to find like minded people but to position things constantly on AMT as a battle until everyone agrees seems to be the pointless approach to me.
"Politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new."
I do sometimes learn new things from items people post here, and gain different perspectives based on where people come from.
Why do people keep saying I said I do not want taxes? I never once stated anything like that. The damn title of the thread is no to increased taxes, not no to taxes. I am with RR on all this. If the government used the money correctly a lot of what Bernie wants could get done with what is already being brought in. If you were donating money to charity and found out only a very small portion of what you were donating went to the actual cause would you decide to double down and donate more? That is what raised taxes will do.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,643
I don't think everything has to be a battle, but when you post something that incites strong feelings, you should expect a bit of battle!
I can certainly see that -- perhaps I am drawing feelings from many of the threads on AMT and applying here. It would seem that the goal of most people is only to convince others as to how they think and to not bother and try to see things from a different perspective.
Anyone can google engineer a response and post a link -- which is what frequently is done here -- and point to that as being their opinion instead of taking a few minutes to share why they feel the way they do and allow for there to be a differing opinion.
I don't think everything has to be a battle, but when you post something that incites strong feelings, you should expect a bit of battle!
I can certainly see that -- perhaps I am drawing feelings from many of the threads on AMT and applying here. It would seem that the goal of most people is only to convince others as to how they think and to not bother and try to see things from a different perspective.
Anyone can google engineer a response and post a link -- which is what frequently is done here -- and point to that as being their opinion instead of taking a few minutes to share why they feel the way they do and allow for there to be a differing opinion.
Too often these days Opinion = Fact to many.
Ok, I don't see the relevance.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,643
I don't think everything has to be a battle, but when you post something that incites strong feelings, you should expect a bit of battle!
I can certainly see that -- perhaps I am drawing feelings from many of the threads on AMT and applying here. It would seem that the goal of most people is only to convince others as to how they think and to not bother and try to see things from a different perspective.
Anyone can google engineer a response and post a link -- which is what frequently is done here -- and point to that as being their opinion instead of taking a few minutes to share why they feel the way they do and allow for there to be a differing opinion.
Too often these days Opinion = Fact to many.
Ok, I don't see the relevance.
You highlighted this piece before and asked what the point was. In my opinion, the point was to share what he thought and to see what others thought. I clearly do not think his point is to make everyone think his way is right.
OP has a right to share what he thinks and is not obligated to try and convince everyone that his way is right.
Indeed they are 30.No arguments here. I personally have no problem paying my share.In fact I pay way more than my fair share.Both on the personal side and on the corporate side. I give a whole hell of a lot and take very little.Same goes with my property taxes and services at a local level. I feel I have the right to want my $$ paid in not to be wasted and squandered.Fiscal responsibility is a must.
I will ask you this.Why does some of my family who lives in Canada come to the states for medical care? If the system is so good why do they need to do that? Same goes with people I know in England.Need medical care for a sick kid,I hope you like to wait unless someone is in trauma?
Because they can AFFORD to pay for faster service if they want it (they don't NEED it). Holy, your comment really frustrates me. The medical system in Canada is just fine. Room for improvement in terms of wait lists of course, but no system doesn't have room for improvement. There are waits for some things, not for others, but never for life saving things, or even potential serious concerns (i.e. if a doctor thinks your symptoms could possibly be related to something serious, you don't wait at all for scans or tests or appointments), and no one ever goes broke because they get sick, and no one dies because tbey can't afford a surgery.
I would MUCH prefer waiting for a hip replacement over people dying or going bankrupt just because they can't afford to get cancer or a transplant. The US system is fine and dandy for people with money... and I consider the US system a massive human rights violation. Disgusting. I can't believe anyone could possibly support a system where profit is made from not treating people. I don't even understand why it's legal.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Putting a price on everything is the American way. But, by making people's health a profit opportunity, don't you incentivise death? Sure, it beats that damn socialism!
Directed toward anyone who feels like their opinion needs to be everyone else's...and conversely that my goal here should be to convince everyone else to think how I think.
Accept that there are differences in opinion, and that they can be well thought out positions informed by a different reality.
If you make $250,000 per year and I make $45,000 per year it is foolish to think that we have the same perspective when it comes to taxation. What would I know about your reality when I pay $9,000 in taxes and you pay $87,000 in taxes?? (Based on 2015 tax table in NJ...Fed, Medicare, SSI, State estimated)
So the arguments that many make above are strained. Roads, education, military, health care, SSI, etc....both of us pay towards those.
In this example, I happen to pay 20% toward those items while you pay nearly 35%. Is this fair? Up for interpretation, I guess. In my opinion, no. Would I expect that I have the same opinion on this that you do? Ummm, no. Should your vote count more than mine, since you pay an 866% increase on the taxes that I pay? Would I expect you to be more concerned than me about increasing tax rates? Who is more likely to see their % of income toward taxes increase? The person who pays 20% or the person who pays 866% more than that total?
------------------------------------------------------- Sorry rgambs, we have a different interpretation on the description I guess of AMT. I can see where you get to your position as you read it. You left out the 'discussion' part. I read it as an exchange of ideas. No issues with someone wanting to find like minded people but to position things constantly on AMT as a battle until everyone agrees seems to be the pointless approach to me.
"Politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new."
I do sometimes learn new things from items people post here, and gain different perspectives based on where people come from.
Sure it's fair. We have a progressive tax system based on the "wherewithal to pay"...the more you make the more you pay.
The theory being that a civilized capitalist society needs to let the lower and middle class keep as much as possible so that they spend their money in the economy. The wealthy have more money then they can spend so they influence the economy very little. Therefore they should pay the majority of the tax burden...which they do. The problem we have now is that they don't pay enough. The lower and middle class money is funneling up to the very wealthy and they sit on it.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Indeed they are 30.No arguments here. I personally have no problem paying my share.In fact I pay way more than my fair share.Both on the personal side and on the corporate side. I give a whole hell of a lot and take very little.Same goes with my property taxes and services at a local level. I feel I have the right to want my $$ paid in not to be wasted and squandered.Fiscal responsibility is a must.
I will ask you this.Why does some of my family who lives in Canada come to the states for medical care? If the system is so good why do they need to do that? Same goes with people I know in England.Need medical care for a sick kid,I hope you like to wait unless someone is in trauma?
Because they can AFFORD to pay for faster service if they want it (they don't NEED it). Holy, your comment really frustrates me. The medical system in Canada is just fine. There are waits for some things, but never for life saving things, and no one ever goes broke because they get sick, and no ome dies because tbey can't afford a surgery. I would MUCH prefer waiting for a hip replacement over people dying or going bankrupt just because they can't afford to get cancer or a transplant. The US system is fine and dandy for people with money... and I consider the US system a massive human rights violation. Disgusting. I can't believe anyone could possibly support a system where profit is made from not treating people. I don't even understand why it's legal.
This just goes to show you know nothing about the US system. Hospitals are not allowed to turn people away if they have a life threatening issue. Private hospitals will stabalize and transfer them to a public hospital but no one is dying over a surgery they need because the hospital said no. Your standing on a transplant list also has no bearing on money. You are ranked based on your need. We have laws to ensure that rich people do not jump the list simply because they have money. Adding more government health care would change none of that. Private hospitals would still offer better care and people who can afford better insurance will go to those while people on government healthcare would still go to the same hospitals as they do now.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,643
Directed toward anyone who feels like their opinion needs to be everyone else's...and conversely that my goal here should be to convince everyone else to think how I think.
Accept that there are differences in opinion, and that they can be well thought out positions informed by a different reality.
If you make $250,000 per year and I make $45,000 per year it is foolish to think that we have the same perspective when it comes to taxation. What would I know about your reality when I pay $9,000 in taxes and you pay $87,000 in taxes?? (Based on 2015 tax table in NJ...Fed, Medicare, SSI, State estimated)
So the arguments that many make above are strained. Roads, education, military, health care, SSI, etc....both of us pay towards those.
In this example, I happen to pay 20% toward those items while you pay nearly 35%. Is this fair? Up for interpretation, I guess. In my opinion, no. Would I expect that I have the same opinion on this that you do? Ummm, no. Should your vote count more than mine, since you pay an 866% increase on the taxes that I pay? Would I expect you to be more concerned than me about increasing tax rates? Who is more likely to see their % of income toward taxes increase? The person who pays 20% or the person who pays 866% more than that total?
------------------------------------------------------- Sorry rgambs, we have a different interpretation on the description I guess of AMT. I can see where you get to your position as you read it. You left out the 'discussion' part. I read it as an exchange of ideas. No issues with someone wanting to find like minded people but to position things constantly on AMT as a battle until everyone agrees seems to be the pointless approach to me.
"Politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new."
I do sometimes learn new things from items people post here, and gain different perspectives based on where people come from.
Sure it's fair. We have a progressive tax system based on the "wherewithal to pay"...the more you make the more you pay.
The theory being that a civilized capitalist society needs to let the lower and middle class keep as much as possible so that they spend their money in the economy. The wealthy have more money then they can spend so they influence the economy very little. Therefore they should pay the majority of the tax burden...which they do. The problem we have now is that they don't pay enough. The lower and middle class money is funneling up to the very wealthy and they sit on it.
Thanks for your response. Disagree with you, but that is why I put that it was my opinion that it was not fair for one person to pay 20% of their income as taxes and another to pay 35%. I do believe and am fine with people who make more paying more, but I think the disparity is not right. Like your positioning and find it appropriate (as it doesn't just point to what taxes go toward and misinterpret the OP's statement), just happen to not agree with it.
Directed toward anyone who feels like their opinion needs to be everyone else's...and conversely that my goal here should be to convince everyone else to think how I think.
Accept that there are differences in opinion, and that they can be well thought out positions informed by a different reality.
If you make $250,000 per year and I make $45,000 per year it is foolish to think that we have the same perspective when it comes to taxation. What would I know about your reality when I pay $9,000 in taxes and you pay $87,000 in taxes?? (Based on 2015 tax table in NJ...Fed, Medicare, SSI, State estimated)
So the arguments that many make above are strained. Roads, education, military, health care, SSI, etc....both of us pay towards those.
In this example, I happen to pay 20% toward those items while you pay nearly 35%. Is this fair? Up for interpretation, I guess. In my opinion, no. Would I expect that I have the same opinion on this that you do? Ummm, no. Should your vote count more than mine, since you pay an 866% increase on the taxes that I pay? Would I expect you to be more concerned than me about increasing tax rates? Who is more likely to see their % of income toward taxes increase? The person who pays 20% or the person who pays 866% more than that total?
------------------------------------------------------- Sorry rgambs, we have a different interpretation on the description I guess of AMT. I can see where you get to your position as you read it. You left out the 'discussion' part. I read it as an exchange of ideas. No issues with someone wanting to find like minded people but to position things constantly on AMT as a battle until everyone agrees seems to be the pointless approach to me.
"Politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new."
I do sometimes learn new things from items people post here, and gain different perspectives based on where people come from.
I don't think you are reading very carefully.
I said people should pay taxes proportionately the same. Differing tax brackets are not the 'fairest' way to contribute.
Why do people keep saying I said I do not want taxes? I never once stated anything like that. The damn title of the thread is no to increased taxes, not no to taxes. I am with RR on all this. If the government used the money correctly a lot of what Bernie wants could get done with what is already being brought in. If you were donating money to charity and found out only a very small portion of what you were donating went to the actual cause would you decide to double down and donate more? That is what raised taxes will do.
No to increased taxes in general or just no increased taxes for you?
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
Indeed they are 30.No arguments here. I personally have no problem paying my share.In fact I pay way more than my fair share.Both on the personal side and on the corporate side. I give a whole hell of a lot and take very little.Same goes with my property taxes and services at a local level. I feel I have the right to want my $$ paid in not to be wasted and squandered.Fiscal responsibility is a must.
I will ask you this.Why does some of my family who lives in Canada come to the states for medical care? If the system is so good why do they need to do that? Same goes with people I know in England.Need medical care for a sick kid,I hope you like to wait unless someone is in trauma?
Because they can AFFORD to pay for faster service if they want it (they don't NEED it). Holy, your comment really frustrates me. The medical system in Canada is just fine. There are waits for some things, but never for life saving things, and no one ever goes broke because they get sick, and no ome dies because tbey can't afford a surgery. I would MUCH prefer waiting for a hip replacement over people dying or going bankrupt just because they can't afford to get cancer or a transplant. The US system is fine and dandy for people with money... and I consider the US system a massive human rights violation. Disgusting. I can't believe anyone could possibly support a system where profit is made from not treating people. I don't even understand why it's legal.
This just goes to show you know nothing about the US system. Hospitals are not allowed to turn people away if they have a life threatening issue. Private hospitals will stabalize and transfer them to a public hospital but no one is dying over a surgery they need because the hospital said no. Your standing on a transplant list also has no bearing on money. You are ranked based on your need. We have laws to ensure that rich people do not jump the list simply because they have money. Adding more government health care would change none of that. Private hospitals would still offer better care and people who can afford better insurance will go to those while people on government healthcare would still go to the same hospitals as they do now.
Directed toward anyone who feels like their opinion needs to be everyone else's...and conversely that my goal here should be to convince everyone else to think how I think.
Accept that there are differences in opinion, and that they can be well thought out positions informed by a different reality.
If you make $250,000 per year and I make $45,000 per year it is foolish to think that we have the same perspective when it comes to taxation. What would I know about your reality when I pay $9,000 in taxes and you pay $87,000 in taxes?? (Based on 2015 tax table in NJ...Fed, Medicare, SSI, State estimated)
So the arguments that many make above are strained. Roads, education, military, health care, SSI, etc....both of us pay towards those.
In this example, I happen to pay 20% toward those items while you pay nearly 35%. Is this fair? Up for interpretation, I guess. In my opinion, no. Would I expect that I have the same opinion on this that you do? Ummm, no. Should your vote count more than mine, since you pay an 866% increase on the taxes that I pay? Would I expect you to be more concerned than me about increasing tax rates? Who is more likely to see their % of income toward taxes increase? The person who pays 20% or the person who pays 866% more than that total?
------------------------------------------------------- Sorry rgambs, we have a different interpretation on the description I guess of AMT. I can see where you get to your position as you read it. You left out the 'discussion' part. I read it as an exchange of ideas. No issues with someone wanting to find like minded people but to position things constantly on AMT as a battle until everyone agrees seems to be the pointless approach to me.
"Politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new."
I do sometimes learn new things from items people post here, and gain different perspectives based on where people come from.
This really is the argument in a nutshell.When you pay more in taxes then others make you will look at even more taxation as much more a burden(wether you can afford it or not is irrelevant).If you are on the lower end you will think the rich guy dosent pay enough even though he pays so much more of his salary. This is where consumption taxes and flat rates have appeal.
Indeed they are 30.No arguments here. I personally have no problem paying my share.In fact I pay way more than my fair share.Both on the personal side and on the corporate side. I give a whole hell of a lot and take very little.Same goes with my property taxes and services at a local level. I feel I have the right to want my $$ paid in not to be wasted and squandered.Fiscal responsibility is a must.
I will ask you this.Why does some of my family who lives in Canada come to the states for medical care? If the system is so good why do they need to do that? Same goes with people I know in England.Need medical care for a sick kid,I hope you like to wait unless someone is in trauma?
Because they can AFFORD to pay for faster service if they want it (they don't NEED it). Holy, your comment really frustrates me. The medical system in Canada is just fine. Room for improvement in terms of wait lists of course, but no system doesn't have room for improvement. There are waits for some things, not for others, but never for life saving things, or even potential serious concerns (i.e. if a doctor thinks your symptoms could possibly be related to something serious, you don't wait at all for scans or tests or appointments), and no one ever goes broke because they get sick, and no one dies because tbey can't afford a surgery.
I would MUCH prefer waiting for a hip replacement over people dying or going bankrupt just because they can't afford to get cancer or a transplant. The US system is fine and dandy for people with money... and I consider the US system a massive human rights violation. Disgusting. I can't believe anyone could possibly support a system where profit is made from not treating people. I don't even understand why it's legal.
Compared to Germany (and many other countries too) the costs for health care of any kind in the US are astronomically high. My mom is a gyn and had a person coming from the US for a fertility treatment because in Germany it was actually somewhat affordable even without a German health insurance. In Germany, the health insurances offer preventative treatments like yoga classes or therapeutic swimming or acupuncture. When I was under immense stress from writing my master thesis, I benefitted from being able to get massages and gymnastics prescribed that were included in my health care, I did not have to pay a dime. And it prevented worse that might have needed more serious treatments. My husband has a screwed up back and neck from working on cars for almost 20 years now. He went into a physical therapy treatment that the doc recommended and prescribed, and we ended up having to pay more than 1000 dollars for 10 treatments. With health insurance. In America. In Germany, when I need to go to the emergency room, I don't have extra costs, my insurance covers that. If I was pregnant, my health insurance would cover the prenatal care and also my stay at the hospital. I have seen some sums for that kind of stuff over here and it makes me wanna sew up my lady parts. I am healthy, thank goodness. Practically yes, we have insurance, but we still pay pay pay whenever something needs to be done. So I am paranoid that something happens and we are financially doomed. This is what sucks about American health care.
Oh, and yes, one more thing - I HATE that they can never freaking tell you at the doc's how much something is gonna cost.
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this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,643
I know we are straying from the thread topic on taxes but Leeze I agree about that crazy costs for health insurance here and how it is next to impossible to determine what the costs are going to be. So...my wife had a baby less than 2 yrs ago and we had no idea what it was going to cost until the bills came in. Lucky that I wasn't concerned about it impacting our lifestyles but if I was still living check to check like I was as a youngster this would have been problematic. Based on some other items we just assumed we would hit our deductibles for the year and max out, so we knew what to set aside.
Took our baby in to have his leg checked out last month because he wasn't using it suddenly one night and we talked it through with our normal Doctor...they suggested we take him in to the ER as it was Saturday night and they wouldn't be open until Monday. Of course, we took him, and the tests ended up being about $700 after insurance negotiated rates, etc... Happy to pay what is needed, happy that it was available in the event it would have been something dangerous for him, think it is dumb that they couldn't tell my wife the damage when she was there. (A totally different topic, but also think it is crazy that the charges would be different to others. Things should cost what they cost.)
Indeed they are 30.No arguments here. I personally have no problem paying my share.In fact I pay way more than my fair share.Both on the personal side and on the corporate side. I give a whole hell of a lot and take very little.Same goes with my property taxes and services at a local level. I feel I have the right to want my $$ paid in not to be wasted and squandered.Fiscal responsibility is a must.
I will ask you this.Why does some of my family who lives in Canada come to the states for medical care? If the system is so good why do they need to do that? Same goes with people I know in England.Need medical care for a sick kid,I hope you like to wait unless someone is in trauma?
Because they can AFFORD to pay for faster service if they want it (they don't NEED it). Holy, your comment really frustrates me. The medical system in Canada is just fine. Room for improvement in terms of wait lists of course, but no system doesn't have room for improvement. There are waits for some things, not for others, but never for life saving things, or even potential serious concerns (i.e. if a doctor thinks your symptoms could possibly be related to something serious, you don't wait at all for scans or tests or appointments), and no one ever goes broke because they get sick, and no one dies because tbey can't afford a surgery.
I would MUCH prefer waiting for a hip replacement over people dying or going bankrupt just because they can't afford to get cancer or a transplant. The US system is fine and dandy for people with money... and I consider the US system a massive human rights violation. Disgusting. I can't believe anyone could possibly support a system where profit is made from not treating people. I don't even understand why it's legal.
Pj,a little biased are we?
No, just going off of facts and combining them with my opinion that healthcare is a human right that shouldn't be determined by how much money a person has or by greedy insurance companies who profit from witholding proper care.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You haven't done the same at all. I specifically pointed out that people die specifically because they don't have enough money. You said that wasn't true. I posted links to provide some evidence that it is. You posting a link about some errors that have occured in Canada's system is irrelevant to my point. And of course no system is perfect - I never claimed Canada's is. But it's a hell of a lot better than America's specifically for the point I'm making. I find it so odd that so many Americans support a system where insurance companies profit from witholding care and poor people die because they can't afford the healthcare. It's crazy.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,643
It is because people with some money are all soulless capitalist pigs. You should ask most of the people on these boards, they will tell you.
You haven't done the same at all. I specifically pointed out that people die specifically because they don't have enough money. You said that wasn't true. I posted links to provide some evidence that it is. You posting a link about some errors that have occured in Canada's system is irrelevant to my point. And of course no system is perfect - I never claimed Canada's is. But it's a hell of a lot better than America's specifically for the point I'm making. I find it so odd that so many Americans support a system where insurance companies profit from witholding care and poor people die because they can't afford the healthcare. It's crazy.
Good luck getting any sort of a fair conversation out about this or not getting mob attacked for your opinion. While the first article he posted is moot because that shit happens in every healthcare system, the second one is something we do have to deal with up here. As you said our system is not perfect and has its flaws. But I agree the American health care system is just sickening in its interest in profits before anything else. When you suggest anything different you get this response like you are telling them you are taking all of their "freedom" away. I guess we just have to be happy we live in a country where we were brought up to think of others along with ourselves, rather than just clawing for 'what is mine'.
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It sounds as if he's disappointed the OP's rant wasn't left to stand. It sounds as if he's not really clear on the idea of what discourse really is.
I'd agree with him on the aspect of everyone proportionately paying their share of taxes (if that's what he was saying because it wasn't the clearest of entries).
And I'm not sure about the 'f**k you' either. F**k who? Me? Then f**k you too.
Accept that there are differences in opinion, and that they can be well thought out positions informed by a different reality.
If you make $250,000 per year and I make $45,000 per year it is foolish to think that we have the same perspective when it comes to taxation.
What would I know about your reality when I pay $9,000 in taxes and you pay $87,000 in taxes?? (Based on 2015 tax table in NJ...Fed, Medicare, SSI, State estimated)
So the arguments that many make above are strained.
Roads, education, military, health care, SSI, etc....both of us pay towards those.
In this example, I happen to pay 20% toward those items while you pay nearly 35%.
Is this fair? Up for interpretation, I guess. In my opinion, no.
Would I expect that I have the same opinion on this that you do? Ummm, no.
Should your vote count more than mine, since you pay an 866% increase on the taxes that I pay?
Would I expect you to be more concerned than me about increasing tax rates?
Who is more likely to see their % of income toward taxes increase? The person who pays 20% or the person who pays 866% more than that total?
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Sorry rgambs, we have a different interpretation on the description I guess of AMT. I can see where you get to your position as you read it.
You left out the 'discussion' part. I read it as an exchange of ideas. No issues with someone wanting to find like minded people but to position things constantly on AMT as a battle until everyone agrees seems to be the pointless approach to me.
"Politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new."
I do sometimes learn new things from items people post here, and gain different perspectives based on where people come from.
Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
Anyone can google engineer a response and post a link -- which is what frequently is done here -- and point to that as being their opinion instead of taking a few minutes to share why they feel the way they do and allow for there to be a differing opinion.
Too often these days Opinion = Fact to many.
OP has a right to share what he thinks and is not obligated to try and convince everyone that his way is right.
The medical system in Canada is just fine. Room for improvement in terms of wait lists of course, but no system doesn't have room for improvement. There are waits for some things, not for others, but never for life saving things, or even potential serious concerns (i.e. if a doctor thinks your symptoms could possibly be related to something serious, you don't wait at all for scans or tests or appointments), and no one ever goes broke because they get sick, and no one dies because tbey can't afford a surgery.
I would MUCH prefer waiting for a hip replacement over people dying or going bankrupt just because they can't afford to get cancer or a transplant. The US system is fine and dandy for people with money... and I consider the US system a massive human rights violation. Disgusting. I can't believe anyone could possibly support a system where profit is made from not treating people. I don't even understand why it's legal.
But, by making people's health a profit opportunity, don't you incentivise death? Sure, it beats that damn socialism!
The theory being that a civilized capitalist society needs to let the lower and middle class keep as much as possible so that they spend their money in the economy. The wealthy have more money then they can spend so they influence the economy very little. Therefore they should pay the majority of the tax burden...which they do. The problem we have now is that they don't pay enough. The lower and middle class money is funneling up to the very wealthy and they sit on it.
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Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
Like your positioning and find it appropriate (as it doesn't just point to what taxes go toward and misinterpret the OP's statement), just happen to not agree with it.
I said people should pay taxes proportionately the same. Differing tax brackets are not the 'fairest' way to contribute.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=697229
http://familiesusa.org/product/dying-coverage-deadly-consequences-being-uninsured
http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2012/06/20/new-estimate-on-deaths-among-uninsured-is-actually-19-years-old/#7b7f10e85e9d
This is where consumption taxes and flat rates have appeal.
In Germany, when I need to go to the emergency room, I don't have extra costs, my insurance covers that. If I was pregnant, my health insurance would cover the prenatal care and also my stay at the hospital. I have seen some sums for that kind of stuff over here and it makes me wanna sew up my lady parts.
I am healthy, thank goodness. Practically yes, we have insurance, but we still pay pay pay whenever something needs to be done. So I am paranoid that something happens and we are financially doomed. This is what sucks about American health care.
Oh, and yes, one more thing - I HATE that they can never freaking tell you at the doc's how much something is gonna cost.
Here is a funny bit, just for a different view point. http://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/brits-tried-to-guess-the-cost-of-american-healthcare#.wrP5eaYKk
news.nationalpost.com/health/inside-canadas-secret-world-of-medical-errors-there-is-a-lot-of-lying-theres-a-lot-of-cover-up
huffingtonpost.ca/bacchus-barua-/wait-times-canada_b_5505110.html
Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
So...my wife had a baby less than 2 yrs ago and we had no idea what it was going to cost until the bills came in. Lucky that I wasn't concerned about it impacting our lifestyles but if I was still living check to check like I was as a youngster this would have been problematic. Based on some other items we just assumed we would hit our deductibles for the year and max out, so we knew what to set aside.
Took our baby in to have his leg checked out last month because he wasn't using it suddenly one night and we talked it through with our normal Doctor...they suggested we take him in to the ER as it was Saturday night and they wouldn't be open until Monday. Of course, we took him, and the tests ended up being about $700 after insurance negotiated rates, etc...
Happy to pay what is needed, happy that it was available in the event it would have been something dangerous for him, think it is dumb that they couldn't tell my wife the damage when she was there.
(A totally different topic, but also think it is crazy that the charges would be different to others. Things should cost what they cost.)
I specifically pointed out that people die specifically because they don't have enough money. You said that wasn't true. I posted links to provide some evidence that it is.
You posting a link about some errors that have occured in Canada's system is irrelevant to my point. And of course no system is perfect - I never claimed Canada's is. But it's a hell of a lot better than America's specifically for the point I'm making. I find it so odd that so many Americans support a system where insurance companies profit from witholding care and poor people die because they can't afford the healthcare. It's crazy.
Get it right dude.
But I agree the American health care system is just sickening in its interest in profits before anything else. When you suggest anything different you get this response like you are telling them you are taking all of their "freedom" away.
I guess we just have to be happy we live in a country where we were brought up to think of others along with ourselves, rather than just clawing for 'what is mine'.
You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.