Discussion: The Lottery has turned Tickets Into "Trade Bait"

subpoprockcity

MayDay10 said:

I have no problem with ticket trading. However, what is going on is a bit problematic IMO, especially not 24 hours after the lottery has concluded. Its like a full-blown marketplace.
Too many people with the burdon of 'extra pairs'. It either means they are getting multiples, or they are putting in for tickets they do not intend on using. Either way, this is taking pairs out of hands that actually wanted them.
I also only see what I see here, I wonder what is going on elsewhere, I'm sure people are getting more than face value.

While ticket trading is fine, IMO something needs to be altered a bit to reduce this.

there is ticket trading, and then there is abusive ticket trading.

EnterThanman

PJ_Soul said:

subpoprockcity said:

eddiec said:

subpoprockcity said:

MayDay10 said:

So it's perfect and no improvements are possible and shouldn't be brought up, discussed, or otherwise considered.

indeed, "please don't say a word, anyone who disagrees with me and my unyielding defense of the fan club policy".

That's not it at all. You are implying there is a rampant abuse of the system which I personally find logistically impossible.

This whole thread is about abuses of the system.

Not it's not. Trading tix with other members isn't an abuse of the system.

Buying four tickets for two people is an abuse of the system.

PJ_Soul

eddiec said:

PJ_Soul said:

somebodyelsessky2020 said:

They can stop it by making you enter the arena as soon as you pick up your tickets. If you are not ready to go in then you have to come when you are ready to enter. Simple fix to this problem.

Great system (NIN uses it and it is smooth as silk), and yeah, I don't understand why 10C continues to leave that hours-long window open for people to scalp their tix. It may be specifically because it also prevents people from trading tix. I feel like the 10C has no issue at all with ticket trading. It's part of the social fabric among members, and, I think, a positive thing. But scalping should trump allowing ticket trades, so yeah, I'm all for 10C bringing in the NIN system when it comes to picking up our tix.

10c would have to drop their 'pairs only' rule for this to work.

That would awesome if they did. That is the most mystifying thing about 10C for me. We should be able to buy singles. Not everyone has $170 minimum to drop on a concert, and not everyone wants to go to a show with someone. And selling singles would mean more members get tix.

PJ_Soul

Vedd Hedd said:

Two possible ideas....

1. Allow single ticket sales.
2. Remove GA and go back to seating. Then all seats are "by seniority".

A lot of people love GA (I`m one of them, and that`s whether or not i am actually in the pit - I think a GA pit brings more energy to the whole building), and the band brought it back for a good reason. For several good reasons, actually. Jeff specifically said they have no plans to go back to seats in front of the stage. Seats in front of the stage also means fewer tickets available to fans, which is the best argument against it IMO.

PJ_Soul

EnterThanman said:

PJ_Soul said:

subpoprockcity said:

eddiec said:

subpoprockcity said:

MayDay10 said:

So it's perfect and no improvements are possible and shouldn't be brought up, discussed, or otherwise considered.

indeed, "please don't say a word, anyone who disagrees with me and my unyielding defense of the fan club policy".

That's not it at all. You are implying there is a rampant abuse of the system which I personally find logistically impossible.

This whole thread is about abuses of the system.

Not it's not. Trading tix with other members isn't an abuse of the system.

Buying four tickets for two people is an abuse of the system.

No more than buying two tickets for one person, which is what we are all forced to do. In other words, I disagree that that is an abuse. Nothing wrong with EACH member bringing a friend.

Vedd Hedd

PJ_Soul said:

Vedd Hedd said:

Two possible ideas....

1. Allow single ticket sales.
2. Remove GA and go back to seating. Then all seats are "by seniority".

A lot of people love GA (I`m one of them, and that`s whether or not i am actually in the pit - I think a GA pit brings more energy to the whole building), and the band brought it back for a good reason. For several good reasons, actually. Jeff specifically said they have no plans to go back to seats in front of the stage. Seats in front of the stage also means fewer tickets available to fans, which is the best argument against it IMO.

Agreed. And some times i like ga. Its just that some other times, my travel partner cant do ga.

But yeah, i wonder how many more tickets would be available if singles were allowed?

MayDay10

I think that logistically, singles would only be possible in GA.

jmug23

MG79478 said:

I've been against the lottery since day 1, glad others are finally catching up. All the best things in life should be earned. The fans who stayed at the keyboard hitting F5 for hours should be rewarded with tickets. For the record, I actually got tickets to every show I wanted via the lottery... and it feels dirty. But I sleep at night because I know I would have gotten them in the old system, because I was NEVER shut out.

The solution is easy, go back to the good old days, bring seniority in to the mix and get rid of GA. Since tickets can't be earned by F5 effort, they should be earned by seniority. Sign up for a new account all you want, but the number will be so bad you won't get tickets to the best shows. If two members were married and have legitimate memberships, they won't be effected. Plus long time fans will be rewarded for their loyalty.

I'm a firefighter and if I was working, I would never be able to get tickets the old F5 way. I don't have a job where I can sit in front of a computer for hours on end. Even if I happen to be off duty, my young kids also wouldn't make it feasible To sit in front of a computer for half the day. I agree there could be some changes to help spread things out, but I don't believe this is the answer. I also believe you can't really get upset about not getting tickets when you took the gamble of going GA for the most highly desirable venues. I would love to see them play MSG, but I wasn't willing to gamble, so went for Greenville and was lucky enough to win.

Zod

I'm not going to lie. After missing out in Seattle in 2013 (I got my Vancouver tickets, but missed out on seattle as 2nd pick) I got my wife to sign up for a 10c membership. It's no horribly bad in our circumstance because she like's PJ and comes with me to a fair number of shows.

I have had thoughts lately that 10c's policies have really increased the amount of revenue they get from membership dues. When they introduced seniority based seating, attrition slowed down to a crawl. People kept renewing every year (unlike previous years where many fans would only renew if they thought a tour was coming.. this is something I've personally done in other fan clubs). Then the lottery thing. Giving everyone access to GA. It worked the first time because no one was prepared for it. Now people sign up family/friends/spouse for memberships because it's so hard to get tickets. It doesn't matter if someone's been in the club for 18 years or 2 minutes, they can be up front. I also wonder if scalpers have figured this out. Say the odds of getting GA for a big show are 1 in 5. Scalpers make 50 different memberships, and maybe end up with 10 pairs of GA tickets. They'll make a fortune off those. Sure they can't pick up until the day of the show, but they have months to work out the logistics on that. They know months in advance they have those tickets. I've wondered if maybe the GA thing should be randomized so people don't know they're GA until the day of the show. Scalpers might think twice if a bunch of those tickets aren't so good.

I wonder if ethically the 10c should keep selling memberships knowing the odds of fans getting tickets are getting slimmer and slimmer with every tour. Especially the digital membership. That's seems to be the goto for all these people vying at tickets. The less tickets they get access to, the more revenues they actually make. Seems like a bit of an ethical conflict.

DPrival78

the F5 method had to go, and i think the lottery is fine, but it would be nice if it didn't completely take seniority out of the mix for GA.

Poncier

Zod said:

I also wonder if scalpers have figured this out. .

You can be quite certain they have.

MayDay10

Zod knows

Leezestarr313

DPrival78 said:

the F5 method had to go, and i think the lottery is fine, but it would be nice if it didn't completely take seniority out of the mix for GA.

But if seniority counts for the allocation of GA tickets, there is the same situation as before GA was introduced. The same old faces in the front.

TL170678

The only thing I am against is people reselling merch to cover their tour and fans who want it to hang on their wall or stick to their laptop goes without.

DPrival78

Leezestarr313 said:

DPrival78 said:

the F5 method had to go, and i think the lottery is fine, but it would be nice if it didn't completely take seniority out of the mix for GA.

But if seniority counts for the allocation of GA tickets, there is the same situation as before GA was introduced. The same old faces in the front.

not necessarily. i mentioned earlier that you could prioritize access to the GA tix with something like a weighted lottery, where more senior members get better odds. that wouldn't eliminate newer members from getting GA tix, but it could just give those who have "put in" over the year a little bit of an advantage.

it would also reduce the problem of multiple accounts for spouses/kids/dogs/etc that we're talking about.

Leezestarr313

My husband has an account too, we met through PJ on here and at PJ20. Both legit. Of course we try both for tickets for certain shows. How would that happen then? There will always be people with an "advantage". And the ones who don't have it will not like it.

I hope Tenclub reads all these "improvement" threads and takes notes. Some good suggestions and ideas are being tossed around here. It is clear that there is room for improvement. I would hate for GA to go away, and I also do not really like the idea of giving older members better chances. They do get their bit of advantage with the seat allocation. But this is just my opinion I'm a #460-something btw. Not really an old member, but also not brand new. I like getting a chance at 10c tickets, but if I don't get them, I try somewhere else.

eddiec

Poncier said:

Zod said:

I also wonder if scalpers have figured this out. .

You can be quite certain they have.

And where do they list them? They can't list GA on any major secondary ticket site so it doesn't make any sense to go through the hassle. They would have to send people down to the venue; multiple venues in different parts of the country to pick up the tickets personally. Plus, the increased resale value of PJ tickets is only visible in a few major markets.

With the effort involved in securing 10 GA tickets they could use their energy to secure 1000 Adele or Taylor Swift tickets across the country and make a lot more money. Scalping is a business and going through all the effort to secure PJ GA in only a select number of big market cities is counterintuitive and pointless.

MayDay10

I think we can safely say:
1. GA is not going away
2. Seniority will never determine who can buy tickets
3. F5 for 10c tickets is gone for good (barring a special-one-time event type of deal through a 3rd party.

I think it is very likely that
1. Seniority will never decide who is in GA
2. We will never see any sort of region-restriction on purchasing tickets

jdopj

Zod said:

I'm not going to lie. After missing out in Seattle in 2013 (I got my Vancouver tickets, but missed out on seattle as 2nd pick) I got my wife to sign up for a 10c membership. It's no horribly bad in our circumstance because she like's PJ and comes with me to a fair number of shows.

I have had thoughts lately that 10c's policies have really increased the amount of revenue they get from membership dues. When they introduced seniority based seating, attrition slowed down to a crawl. People kept renewing every year (unlike previous years where many fans would only renew if they thought a tour was coming.. this is something I've personally done in other fan clubs). Then the lottery thing. Giving everyone access to GA. It worked the first time because no one was prepared for it. Now people sign up family/friends/spouse for memberships because it's so hard to get tickets. It doesn't matter if someone's been in the club for 18 years or 2 minutes, they can be up front. I also wonder if scalpers have figured this out. Say the odds of getting GA for a big show are 1 in 5. Scalpers make 50 different memberships, and maybe end up with 10 pairs of GA tickets. They'll make a fortune off those. Sure they can't pick up until the day of the show, but they have months to work out the logistics on that. They know months in advance they have those tickets. I've wondered if maybe the GA thing should be randomized so people don't know they're GA until the day of the show. Scalpers might think twice if a bunch of those tickets aren't so good.

I wonder if ethically the 10c should keep selling memberships knowing the odds of fans getting tickets are getting slimmer and slimmer with every tour. Especially the digital membership. That's seems to be the goto for all these people vying at tickets. The less tickets they get access to, the more revenues they actually make. Seems like a bit of an ethical conflict.

I doubt highly they knew when they instituted lottery what it would lead to.
It needs to be fixed, I just don't know how easy or how motivated they are. They are just fans running a fan club.
Not an excuse, but a reality. There will always be some ways around things, but fixing this loophole would stop the flooding.

dimitrispearljam

lottery or not,,,f5 or not,,public sale or not....
the same faces are at rail all the shows im going...everywhere i wernt..to usa..to europe to sa..are the same..
same as trade bait the lottery was before,,2 friend went to online sale here at the store..1 went for philly other for msg..they exchange their spare...
the lottery started at 2012 the 2 extra shows they add berlin 2 and prague.,.,we all score back then..cos was alot the tic 10c had and the demand small
im a fanatic of the lottery even this was the 1st time i enter ..i went for 2 shows,,i won 1 and ill be at all 4 florida,.,ill find spares..
2013-2014 -2015 i went to 16 shows..i dint enter any presale and lottery..i found tix..
if tomorrow..pj announce a 75 shows tour at usa there will be no problem..the demand is huge,,,the shows less and the band is HUGE!!!
this is not the band that playing 8-10-12 songs setlist anymore
this is the band that is now in all top 10 anywhere,online,magazines,polls of the best live bands of all times..
10 years ago pearl jam couldnt sold out a venuie of 65k at europe..and now they can fo it and more than one time.
they go to sa and play infront of 65k for 5 times in one country as brazil
they can sold out wrigley in seconds..and so on...
people like to stay in the past..facts are change..
pj plays on stage with beyonce,,they play ballparks..there are lines even for merch and people wait 5 hours!!
the band is one of the biggest on the planet...and 10c no matter what they do..is impossible to please all the demand..
lottery is by far the best system they ever had...
i was here where THE SAME members won always msg and i was shut out always andf 2008 and 2010..till one day sonmeone dent me a message and explain me how some cheat the system with the f-5
now im happy,,noone jas the things on their hands...u make aplan u see the odds u tell firends to enter and u share spares..
but u cant cheat the draw..u cant...
and im fine by that..

ofcourse is good ideas about priorities and how it works and may need to improbe..
odds is great tool as well


ps..i saw a lady post here yesterdsay..10c memebr from 1993....first time ever won msg ticket with 10c ..
23 years....she never won..always shut out..and with the lottery she finally made it...to her home town

now thats is success for me and i was so happy when i saw it.