Discussion: The Lottery has turned Tickets Into "Trade Bait"

shep

so... let me start off by saying, this is not a complaint based on not winning yesterday, but a discussion that 10C needs to address...

Today I will be signing up my wife for a 10C membership - she has little interest in this club, other than she knows that I can sometimes, get tickets through it... needless to say, it will be a digital membership, with access for ticket drawings.

This is a practice that has become fairly rampant throughout the community.... the other day I saw a thread from a guy asking how old someone had to be to sign up, ostensibly because he was looking to see if he could sign up his kid and get an extra lottery entry for the upcoming tour....

I get the feeling 10C has turned a blind eye to this because (a) who wants to sift through thousands of memberships and find duplicate households/last names and eliminate them (and who says that would even be right - their are at least a few situations where duplicate membership in a household is warranted) and (b) it's an additional revenue stream - they collect an extra $20 or $25 annually from someone who causes little difficulty or action on their behalf.

All that being said - in the last 24 hours, it's also become fairly apparent to me that I should have signed up my wife prior to this tour for the additional lottery entries, as even if I had of wound up with duplicate pairs to the same show - it would have been great "trade bait" to maybe actually get tickets to one of the 2 MSG shows I placed my name in the hat for.

I see multiple threads in given to fly and lost dogs advertising trading of pairs... and what we can see happening on this board is small in comparison to the facebook community that is probably trading extra ticket pairs without any of the scrutiny you see here... or the uncertainty of someone who may or may not show up at the next event to give you your tickets...

anyway, i've always been an honest guy - so I never signed up my wife to cheat the system. that changes today. 10C can have $60 annually from me if it means an extra chance at tickets...

I would love to hear an intelligent comment on this from other board members, and particularly a response from the 10C. That being said, this will probably devolve into another thread where people bemoan the fact they got shut out on tickets and realize that part of it maybe because of people cheating the system....

anyway, just remember - every thread or post of people trying to trade "pairs" of 10C tickets, it's the club itself that is driving this unique situation.

see everyone in Tampa (for sure), and hopefully MSG if I can get lucky and find a pair for night 1, and a single for night 2 (anyone with extras for sale, feel free to PM me - I have no scruples with anything you did to get the extras, soon I will be doing it too)....

cheers,

andrew

Weston1283

A single ticket option in the lottery would help this, for people who attend many shows alone like myself. If I can only win a pair, why wouldn't I try to trade it for a single in another city?

shep

Weston1283 said:

A single ticket option in the lottery would help this, for people who attend many shows alone like myself. If I can only win a pair, why wouldn't I try to trade it for a single in another city?

I'm not commenting on "singles" you see for sale or trade...

I'm talking exclusively about "pairs" that people are offering.... for the most part it is because people wound up with 2 pairs to the same show based on multiple memberships in the same household.

Weston1283

Ah, gotcha, my bad

MayDay10

I have been yelling about this "loophole" since this system began. More people seem to be exploiting it and also noticing it.

Everywhere you look now, you see: "I got XXXX, my wife/brother/buddy/dog/parakeet got XXXX!" And/Or "Got extra pair for XXXX, looking for XXXX"

It is a pretty large hole in the system and I think it would be mended a great deal by A: one pool for each show and GA is drawn after the fact and we find out when we pick up tickets. and B: Ticketless entry. You put in for tickets, you better intend on using them. Spouses, etc with numbers in the 6xxxxx range will have a good chance to use those tickets and cant just jump straight to going for GA tickets, while the longstanding member goes for all the Reserved.
The 6XXXXX member still has as good of a chance for GA as anybody.

pjsteelerfan

MayDay10 said:

I have been yelling about this "loophole" since this system began. More people seem to be exploiting it and also noticing it.

Everywhere you look now, you see: "I got XXXX, my wife/brother/buddy/dog/parakeet got XXXX!" And/Or "Got extra pair for XXXX, looking for XXXX"

It is a pretty large hole in the system and I think it would be mended a great deal by A: one pool for each show and GA is drawn after the fact and we find out when we pick up tickets. and B: Ticketless entry.

I still can't believe PJ has not moved to ticket less entry for the public sales.

Stephen Flow

I get the spouse thing. However, they can't really prevent that from happening. I know plenty of couples who have their own 10c accounts. My wife doesn't. I've considered it for the very same reasons in this post. I have a 4 year old son. I won't sign him up though, that's just ridiculous. Besides, lol how would he pick up tickets?

MayDay10

Stephen Flow said:

I get the spouse thing. However, they can't really prevent that from happening. I know plenty of couples who have their own 10c accounts. My wife doesn't. I've considered it for the very same reasons in this post. I have a 4 year old son. I won't sign him up though, that's just ridiculous. Besides, lol how would he pick up tickets?

If your spouse had a number in the 600,000 range, would you go for tickets on her account, knowing if she scored you tickets, you had a 75-80% chance of sitting in 600,000 seniority range tickets? The current system allows people to get accounts and just go straight to GA with all entries, with no risk. Furthermore, they can not pay for membership fees when there arent any tour chatter because the # means nothing.

the_don

It's actually pretty easy to limit to one membership per household. Tons of sites and other bands do this and solve the problem.

Weston1283

the_don said:

It's actually pretty easy to limit to one membership per household. Tons of sites and other bands do this and solve the problem.

That sucks for households who actually have multiple, good fans

Amongst the Ani

Devils advocate on the selling of a pair. Two seperate 10C members want to go to a show together. They both put in for reserved to try and make sure they get a pair. They both win and now have 4 tickets when they only need 2. So they trade or sell for face value one of the pairs on the boards here, kepping 1 complete pair so they can sit together for the show. My point is don't automatically assume when a pair is up for trade or sale that it was someone bucking the system.

Stephen Flow

MayDay10 said:

Stephen Flow said:

I get the spouse thing. However, they can't really prevent that from happening. I know plenty of couples who have their own 10c accounts. My wife doesn't. I've considered it for the very same reasons in this post. I have a 4 year old son. I won't sign him up though, that's just ridiculous. Besides, lol how would he pick up tickets?

If your spouse had a number in the 600,000 range, would you go for tickets on her account, knowing if she scored you tickets, you had a 75-80% chance of sitting in 600,000 seniority range tickets? The current system allows people to get accounts and just go straight to GA with all entries, with no risk. Furthermore, they can not pay for membership fees when there arent any tour chatter because the # means nothing.

As long as I don't have to go through the hassle of trying to land tickets from TM I really don't care where I sit. Sure it's fun sitting in really good seats but I have a good time no matter where I'm sitting. (Go Sabres!).

Kanye East

My wife and I have seen 80+ shows between us, and both had memberships prior to getting together. The fact that you even mention deleting duplicate households is absurd. I understand that there are some instances where people sign up other family members, but there's not much that can be done about it.

I wonder if you have to be a certain age to join the 10c. My son is gonna be 2 in April and he's a big fan!

Stephen Flow

I'm also the rare fan who really doesn't like GA. Being on the rail would be great but I don't want to wait in a line and I hate being nut to butt w/ all of you.

the_don

Weston1283 said:

the_don said:

It's actually pretty easy to limit to one membership per household. Tons of sites and other bands do this and solve the problem.

That sucks for households who actually have multiple, good fans

Nah, there's still tons of loop holes even if they do that (work address, friends address, etc. but would make it slightly more difficult than the current system

Stephen Flow

Kanye East said:

The fact that you even mention deleting duplicate households is absurd.

That and it's also really easy to put a different address. Put your parents address down on 1 account if you have to, etc.

the_don

Amongst the Ani said:

Devils advocate on the selling of a pair. Two seperate 10C members want to go to a show together. They both put in for reserved to try and make sure they get a pair. They both win and now have 4 tickets when they only need 2. So they trade or sell for face value one of the pairs on the boards here, kepping 1 complete pair so they can sit together for the show. My point is don't automatically assume when a pair is up for trade or sale that it was someone bucking the system.

This may be true, but I've yet to see a single TO for sale, everyone is pretty much only using for trade at this point. May change closer to the show (I hope)

know1

I have no problem with it. My only regret was that I didn't sign up my wife before the tour announcement so we would have had more of a chance at GA.

rmwatson

Is it really cheating a system if that person's wife/son/daughter,etc. still needs to go pick up the tickets? If I signed my wife up, and her account won tickets, she would laugh in my face if I told her I needed her to drive down to the Wells Fargo Center to pick up tickets for me. Now, if a wife/son/daughter actually wanted to go to the shows as well, then why should she/he not be allowed the same chance at tickets as myself and every other fan. I get that there may be spouses out there that would go pick up tickets; but if someone is going to go to all of that trouble, who cares, and my guess is that number is probably small. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show. No system will ever be 100% perfect for all users. Everyone just needs to accept that this is not 1996 anymore, anti-establishment anymore. This band has an enormous following. They are a multi-million dollar corporation. Its business, plain and simple; and good business at that.

polaris_x

I would say this falls into the "morality" stratosphere ... it's sort of cheating but not ... technically, this is all above board and everyone can do it ... and those who are doing it will rationalize it however they want ... but the reality is that - if the objective is to get tickets to true fans as fair as possible - this system does not necessarily accomplish that ...

MayDay10

I dont mind if they have the same chance, really.

I just believe this practice is widespread due to the ability for the new member to specifically target GA seats, while the longer standing member targets his/her reserved with higher odds and guaranteed good location.
To me, the eyeball test shows this is going on a lot. Here as well as the facebook groups, you hear people talk about their successes, what tickets they have available to trade, etc and it is clear as day. I noticed it in 2013 but it wasnt nearly at epidemic levels it is at now... and I believe it will only increase as 2 people said they are signing up spouses here in this thread on page 1 alone.

Empty Glass

Maybe I'm old school and really don't care if I see a rock band in concert anymore. If my wife wants in, she can sign herself up. If my kids want in, they can get a job and sign up themselves.

subpoprockcity

shep said:

That being said, this will probably devolve into another thread where people bemoan the fact they got shut out on tickets and realize that part of it maybe because of people cheating the system....

anyway, just remember - every thread or post of people trying to trade "pairs" of 10C tickets, it's the club itself that is driving this unique situation.

That's part of why I find it hard to agree that this particular system is more fair than any other one used previously. Multiple household memberships = more ticket chances. Doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the club...

on2legs

Do you not think people had multiple memberships prior to the lottery? I'm sure people had spouse/family/friends f5ing for tickets during the previous tours.

I don't think anything has changed much.

subpoprockcity

on2legs said:

Do you not think people had multiple memberships prior to the lottery? I'm sure people had spouse/family/friends f5ing for tickets during the previous tours.

I don't think anything has changed much.

again though, there were limits put on tickets per person/account. Limited to one pair per person per show, and one show. The difference now is with multiple accounts, you have one pair per person for many shows.

rgambs

It is a bit of a jackpot scenario to be a single show goer and score GA tix, if you get lucky and get a pair it guarantees you another GA ticket.
Not making a judgement on it, just noting that it's a bummer for peopl who get shut out to see others parlaying their GA tix into more GA tix.

MayDay10

spouse/family/friends werent nearly motivated enough to do what it took to be trusted with F5 duties.

Indifference

MayDay10 said:

spouse/family/friends werent nearly motivated enough to do what it took to be trusted with F5 duties.

Yep - and scalpers don't have the patience - lottery easy for them.

Bring back F5! xD

Kanye East

Stephen Flow said:

Kanye East said:

The fact that you even mention deleting duplicate households is absurd.

That and it's also really easy to put a different address. Put your parents address down on 1 account if you have to, etc.

You'd still have to drive you mom, dad, brother, sister, grandmother to the venue and they'd have to pick them up. If people are gonna go through that trouble, so be it.

MayDay10

I dont think they should go back to f5 free for alls....


But the current system isnt perfect and provides a lot of room for suggestions and improvement, no? Shouldnt we hope that it evolves and improves?

subpoprockcity

Kanye East said:

Stephen Flow said:

Kanye East said:

The fact that you even mention deleting duplicate households is absurd.

That and it's also really easy to put a different address. Put your parents address down on 1 account if you have to, etc.

You'd still have to drive you mom, dad, brother, sister, grandmother to the venue and they'd have to pick them up. If people are gonna go through that trouble, so be it.

and i've seen it with my own eyes happen at shows.