.

rr165892

The all blend together pj.And no one should ever take anything personally on these boards(I don't,I could care less) But some do,that's why we walk on egg shells.If something is not your taste bust balls back.But when someone gets mods involved it's like a high school drama class.Thats when others start getting chippy.

PJ_Soul

F Me In The Brain said:

PJSoul you actually typed yesterday that you were OK with being mean to people if they believed in a god.
(Paraphrasing - here is the actual quote:
"I don't care if it's mean or not. I don't think that living a lie is a positive thing. ")
I think that is a point that perhaps riled a few people. You believe something different from someone else and it is OK for you to be mean to them.

Sweet.

What does that make you, by the way? I know a word it would make a person:
Mean.
(Probably not the word you thought I was going to type?)

That is taken out of context, but yes, it's true that I don't care if "the truth reigns supreme" comes off mean to someone. It is what I believe. That doesn't make me an asshole. It makes me honest. It make me a person who believes in truth, not falsehoods. I don't go out of my way to be mean (and I didn't think what I said was mean at all - someone else did, which I don't agree with). I say something I believe to be true, and if someone thinks that a completely non-personal comment like that is mean, then so be it, I don't care if they think that. It just means that they don't like my opinion. It wasn't in the same context as here, though - here I feel personally attacked, and I didn't there. You're kind of trying the "gotcha" tactic here, but sorry, I actually do not tend to fundamentally contradict myself. And pulling other threads into this one isn't great. Once comments are taken out of another thread they lose context.

Seriously. Saying "the truth reigns supreme" (in the context of my own opinion) is mean? That's ridiculous.

PJ_Soul

rr165892 said:

The all blend together pj.And no one should ever take anything personally on these boards(I don't,I could care less) But some do,that's why we walk on egg shells.If something is not your taste bust balls back.But when someone gets mods involved it's like a high school drama class.Thats when others start getting chippy.

I do not believe in flagging posts in the AMT, that's for sure.

mickeyrat

Hmm, comment about asshole struck a chord. Nobody draped that cloak on your shoulders .

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

Did a quick search as I'm expected to actually work while at work

"Driven by insecurity", "I believe in truth" (implying others' own truths are lies), among various other comments in this thread that do come off as belittling. Perhaps not intended as such, I don't know (callen aside, he practically begged for the Scarlet A!) but certainly how it comes off.

I think it's really unfair to call someone an asshole just because they are saying what they believe. "I believe in truth" is exactly the same as saying "I believe in God" as far as that goes. I feel like anyone who thinks the things I said means I'm an asshole is the one with the problem here, and perhaps isn't prepared to discuss the topic.

I fail to see where the attack is?

mickeyrat

I really miss Pandora

PJ_Soul

mickeyrat said:

Hmm, comment about asshole struck a chord. Nobody draped that cloak on your shoulders .

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

Did a quick search as I'm expected to actually work while at work

"Driven by insecurity", "I believe in truth" (implying others' own truths are lies), among various other comments in this thread that do come off as belittling. Perhaps not intended as such, I don't know (callen aside, he practically begged for the Scarlet A!) but certainly how it comes off.

I think it's really unfair to call someone an asshole just because they are saying what they believe. "I believe in truth" is exactly the same as saying "I believe in God" as far as that goes. I feel like anyone who thinks the things I said means I'm an asshole is the one with the problem here, and perhaps isn't prepared to discuss the topic.

I fail to see where the attack is?

I've been called an asshole and hard headed (you're looking at the wrong post). Those are personal attacks in my book. I defend myself when people attack me personally, but also when I feel the labels are unfair.

F Me In The Brain

PJ_Soul said:

F Me In The Brain said:

PJSoul you actually typed yesterday that you were OK with being mean to people if they believed in a god.
(Paraphrasing - here is the actual quote:
"I don't care if it's mean or not. I don't think that living a lie is a positive thing. ")
I think that is a point that perhaps riled a few people. You believe something different from someone else and it is OK for you to be mean to them.

Sweet.

What does that make you, by the way? I know a word it would make a person:
Mean.
(Probably not the word you thought I was going to type?)

That is taken out of context, but yes, it's true that I don't care if "the truth reigns supreme" comes off mean to someone. It is what I believe. That doesn't make me an asshole. It makes me honest. It make me a person who believes in truth, not falsehoods. I don't go out of my way to be mean (and I didn't think what I said was mean at all - someone else did, which I don't agree with). I say something I believe to be true, and if someone thinks that a completely non-personal comment like that is mean, then so be it, I don't care if they think that. It just means that they don't like my opinion. It wasn't in the same context as here, though - here I feel personally attacked, and I didn't there. You're kind of trying the "gotcha" tactic here, but sorry, I actually do not tend to fundamentally contradict myself. And pulling other threads into this one isn't great. Once comments are taken out of another thread they lose context.

Seriously. Saying "the truth reigns supreme" (in the context of my own opinion) is mean? That's ridiculous.

It actually was from this thread....but I know when to walk away. And...the time is now.



I should not have called you mean. As my mother told me when I was a little boy...two wrongs do not make a right.
"If you hate something, don't you do it too" EV

PJ_Soul

Oh, sorry, so it was - I was thinking that was from the thread rr was referencing.
I actually don't accept that I was one of those two wrongs. I didn't do anything wrong at all.

mickeyrat

PJ_Soul said:

mickeyrat said:

Hmm, comment about asshole struck a chord. Nobody draped that cloak on your shoulders .

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

Did a quick search as I'm expected to actually work while at work

"Driven by insecurity", "I believe in truth" (implying others' own truths are lies), among various other comments in this thread that do come off as belittling. Perhaps not intended as such, I don't know (callen aside, he practically begged for the Scarlet A!) but certainly how it comes off.

I think it's really unfair to call someone an asshole just because they are saying what they believe. "I believe in truth" is exactly the same as saying "I believe in God" as far as that goes. I feel like anyone who thinks the things I said means I'm an asshole is the one with the problem here, and perhaps isn't prepared to discuss the topic.

I fail to see where the attack is?

I've been called an asshole and hard headed (you're looking at the wrong post). Those are personal attacks in my book. I defend myself when people attack me personally, but also when I feel the labels are unfair.

Ecept for tis post referencing your wrds i still dont find where you were called out by name or inference.

PJ_Soul

Well no one else seems to be disagreeing with the inference, but whatever. My real beef is with the fact that people get their knickers in a bunch when I express my own religious beliefs as though it's a personal attack against them, even though I make no personal comments whatsoever. Obviously, I find it very frustrating and really quite unfair.

callen

mickeyrat said:

I really miss Pandora

Me too.

callen

Very telling of responses garnered from religious discussions. Like this big house of cards and everyone is so darn scared of it falling down. So let's whisper and cower in fear in event god will strike us down. In fear of offending a very fragile belief system.

It would be okay.

People will still be nice to each other.

We have established morals.

We have rule of law.

Would all be okay.

dankind

jeffbr said:

dankind said:

jeffbr said:

hedonist said:

No one needs to prove shit.

Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.

Ultimately this is how I feel. Live and let live, believe (or not) and let believe (or not). Maybe we'll find out after our mortal existence who was "right". Maybe we'll just return to dust, and it's lights out.

F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)

The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.

A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

100% agree with this sentiment, and Hedo's. Especially the part about not being an asshole. I just have a hard time restraining myself with the "prove god doesn't exist" argument.

jeffbr, I'll put it to you this way:

That's one paradoxical kitty right there. Are you implying god is in Schroedinger's cat box? Or that god is cat state? I'm admittedly weak in my quantum mechanics. It makes my brain explode (or maybe it just settles into a quantum superposition).

Sort of to mickeyrat's point, I'm simply expressing an argument utilizing an equation from the field of quantum physics that posits that, from a scientific standpoint, the task of proving nonexistence is equivalent to the task of proving existence -- no matter what one happens believe as truth. It exists and it doesn't exist simultaneously. Folks can argue all they want, but that's the way it's been, that's the way it is now, and perhaps that's the way it will be.

On another note, as a relative outsider who imagines himself to be on friendly terms with everyone involved in this argument, I don't recall anybody calling anyone an asshole. I have seen the word quite a bit in this thread, though. Mostly, I have seen it inferred or implied -- or both simultaneously.

Hardheaded was used, but that's hardly an insult or synonymous with asshole. Or is it?

If it is, I've got a bone to pick with a long list of people.

PJ_Soul

FTR, I feel friendly towards everyone here, even in the rare occasions when I do get pissed off.

dignin

mickeyrat said:

As an agnostic it is my position that both believers and non (read athiest) have the burden of proof for their position.

Fence sitter.

But really, I believe in scientific method.....God doesn't fit there. So I'm an Atheist.

I'm with you PJSoul, the burden of proof is on the believers....were not the ones claiming something that could never be measured or proven.

dignin

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)

The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.

Exactly

ehbacon

I just hate that when an atheist tells a believer that their belief is BS, that's shitting on their beliefs. When a believer tells an atheist that their belief is BS, they're just speaking the word of god.

mickeyrat

Maybe instead of judgement , ask how its working for them. If the answer is positive, express happiness about that. If its the opposite, express sympathy. Focus on the individual

PJ_Soul

ehbacon said:

I just hate that when an atheist tells a believer that their belief is BS, that's shitting on their beliefs. When a believer tells an atheist that their belief is BS, they're just speaking the word of god.

Exactly.

PJ_Soul

mickeyrat said:

Maybe instead of judgement , ask how its working for them. If the answer is positive, express happiness about that. If its the opposite, express sympathy. Focus on the individual

I agree if you're focusing on the individual. But religion does not only have an individual impact. Writing religion off as just a personal belief for each individual seems incredibly dismissive of its actual role in the world, not to mention irresponsible, since that attitude sure does give organized religions free reign over what they do to people and societies. It is that non-individual role of religion in the world that makes it an important topic of discussion. It impacts laws, government, social policy, education, war, equality, etc etc etc. This is not a personal issue.