.

callen

hedonist said:

Thanks, guys

I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.

Well just saying god doesn't exist gets tremendous backlash. Like you have to walk on eggshells on religion to not offend. Why? Is it because so many believe in this fragile belief system? Is it because we all have family members we love dearly that believe? I don't know but I wont stop and if you also don't believe get out of the closet and say it. Be proud. Logic and. Science are on your side. Goodness is on your side. Justice and equality are on your side. Stop indoctrinating children to have these fears. Not right.

PJ_Soul

hedonist said:

Did a quick search as I'm expected to actually work while at work

"Driven by insecurity", "I believe in truth" (implying others' own truths are lies), among various other comments in this thread that do come off as belittling. Perhaps not intended as such, I don't know (callen aside, he practically begged for the Scarlet A!) but certainly how it comes off.

I think it's really unfair to call someone an asshole just because they are saying what they believe. "I believe in truth" is exactly the same as saying "I believe in God" as far as that goes. I feel like anyone who thinks the things I said means I'm an asshole is the one with the problem here, and perhaps isn't prepared to discuss the topic.

deadendp

F Me In The Brain said:

PJ_Soul said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made.

What do you think SD is trying to do? Convert me? lol. What am I supposed to be refusing to believe? Show me something that gives me a reason to believe in God, and I'll believe in God. If you can't do that, no good point has been made. Again, the burden of proof is on the believers.

Agree to disagree on the highlighted point.
No, I know SD would not try to convert you. She is not that type of girl.

Of booster seats and whatnot . . . SD is not one to convert. I promise you.

rr165892 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)

The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.

A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

That is because the force is strong with Hedo.

That it is.

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

Thanks, guys

I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.

I was just kidding. I actually don't think I'm being an asshole at all. If anyone thinks I'm being an asshole, then I'd like to discuss that, since as far as I'm concerned, I am just expressing my opinions and being straightforward, and not attacking anyone or being rude or anything like that. Just because some people don't like what I have to say it doesn't suddenly mean I'm being an asshole.

I think it isn't necessarily asshole-ishness as it can come across as hard headed. There are professed non-believers on here having what could be construed as an attempt at constructive conversation that, across the believer/non-believer board, can be somewhat controversial. I speak not for others but I myself see that there is just so much (not just from you but from others as well) talk of "this is how it is" and where that is true for you, it isn't true for others. People do have faith. I have faith. I have no problem in being open about that. I do believe in God, but I understand that people don't. Does it make me a bad person because I do? No. I certainly have plenty of people here on the forum and out in the real world who would argue that I'm an okay chick. I have friends of many faiths. I've said that before. I guess that having a constructive conversation would be in hopes that we could at least respect each other for having different views. It doesn't mean that you have to have to subscribe to whatever it is that the person professes to believe in, but in the very least, know that it is what works for them. That doesn't make them wrong. That doesn't make them an idiot. It just makes them different.

jeffbr

dankind said:

jeffbr said:

hedonist said:

No one needs to prove shit.

Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.

Ultimately this is how I feel. Live and let live, believe (or not) and let believe (or not). Maybe we'll find out after our mortal existence who was "right". Maybe we'll just return to dust, and it's lights out.

F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)

The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.

A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

100% agree with this sentiment, and Hedo's. Especially the part about not being an asshole. I just have a hard time restraining myself with the "prove god doesn't exist" argument.

jeffbr, I'll put it to you this way:

That's one paradoxical kitty right there. Are you implying god is in Schroedinger's cat box? Or that god is cat state? I'm admittedly weak in my quantum mechanics. It makes my brain explode (or maybe it just settles into a quantum superposition).

PJ_Soul

deadendp said:

F Me In The Brain said:

PJ_Soul said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made.

What do you think SD is trying to do? Convert me? lol. What am I supposed to be refusing to believe? Show me something that gives me a reason to believe in God, and I'll believe in God. If you can't do that, no good point has been made. Again, the burden of proof is on the believers.

Agree to disagree on the highlighted point.
No, I know SD would not try to convert you. She is not that type of girl.

Of booster seats and whatnot . . . SD is not one to convert. I promise you.

rr165892 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)

The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.

A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

That is because the force is strong with Hedo.

That it is.

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

Thanks, guys

I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.

I was just kidding. I actually don't think I'm being an asshole at all. If anyone thinks I'm being an asshole, then I'd like to discuss that, since as far as I'm concerned, I am just expressing my opinions and being straightforward, and not attacking anyone or being rude or anything like that. Just because some people don't like what I have to say it doesn't suddenly mean I'm being an asshole.

I think it isn't necessarily asshole-ishness as it can come across as hard headed. There are professed non-believers on here having what could be construed as an attempt at constructive conversation that, across the believer/non-believer board, can be somewhat controversial. I speak not for others but I myself see that there is just so much (not just from you but from others as well) talk of "this is how it is" and where that is true for you, it isn't true for others. People do have faith. I have faith. I have no problem in being open about that. I do believe in God, but I understand that people don't. Does it make me a bad person because I do? No. I certainly have plenty of people here on the forum and out in the real world who would argue that I'm an okay chick. I have friends of many faiths. I've said that before. I guess that having a constructive conversation would be in hopes that we could at least respect each other for having different views. It doesn't mean that you have to have to subscribe to whatever it is that the person professes to believe in, but in the very least, know that it is what works for them. That doesn't make them wrong. That doesn't make them an idiot. It just makes them different.

But that is what I've been saying. I have NEVER said to anyone that they should all believe what I believe. I am just stating what I believe and why. An yet I am so often met with hostility and the idea that I am somehow expecting everyone to believe what I believe, which I actually have never even hinted at, let alone said outright. This is why I have an issue with the reaction here. It's actually offensive to me. And hardheaded? I don't get that either. I have a belief. How is standing strong with my belief hardheaded? What am I supposed to do? Just relent and say, "oh, well, maybe you're right" when I 100% don't believe that? I don't see people with faith saying to me "oh, maybe you're right" about God not existing. But I never see them getting called assholes or hardheaded.
And of course most people I know believe in God or a higher being. There really aren't that many Atheists around.

rr165892

PJ_Soul said:

deadendp said:

F Me In The Brain said:

PJ_Soul said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made.

What do you think SD is trying to do? Convert me? lol. What am I supposed to be refusing to believe? Show me something that gives me a reason to believe in God, and I'll believe in God. If you can't do that, no good point has been made. Again, the burden of proof is on the believers.

Agree to disagree on the highlighted point.
No, I know SD would not try to convert you. She is not that type of girl.

Of booster seats and whatnot . . . SD is not one to convert. I promise you.

rr165892 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)

The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.

A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

That is because the force is strong with Hedo.

That it is.

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

Thanks, guys

I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.

I was just kidding. I actually don't think I'm being an asshole at all. If anyone thinks I'm being an asshole, then I'd like to discuss that, since as far as I'm concerned, I am just expressing my opinions and being straightforward, and not attacking anyone or being rude or anything like that. Just because some people don't like what I have to say it doesn't suddenly mean I'm being an asshole.

I think it isn't necessarily asshole-ishness as it can come across as hard headed. There are professed non-believers on here having what could be construed as an attempt at constructive conversation that, across the believer/non-believer board, can be somewhat controversial. I speak not for others but I myself see that there is just so much (not just from you but from others as well) talk of "this is how it is" and where that is true for you, it isn't true for others. People do have faith. I have faith. I have no problem in being open about that. I do believe in God, but I understand that people don't. Does it make me a bad person because I do? No. I certainly have plenty of people here on the forum and out in the real world who would argue that I'm an okay chick. I have friends of many faiths. I've said that before. I guess that having a constructive conversation would be in hopes that we could at least respect each other for having different views. It doesn't mean that you have to have to subscribe to whatever it is that the person professes to believe in, but in the very least, know that it is what works for them. That doesn't make them wrong. That doesn't make them an idiot. It just makes them different.

But that is what I've been saying. I have NEVER said to anyone that they should all believe what I believe. I am just stating what I believe and why. An yet I am so often met with hostility and the idea that I am somehow expecting everyone to believe what I believe, which I actually have never even hinted at, let alone said outright. This is why I have an issue with the reaction here. It's actually offensive to me. And hardheaded? I don't get that either. I have a belief. How is standing strong with my belief hardheaded? What am I supposed to do? Just relent and say, "oh, well, maybe you're right" when I 100% don't believe that? I don't see people with faith saying to me "oh, maybe you're right" about God not existing. But I never see them getting called assholes or hardheaded.
And of course most people I know believe in God or a higher being. There really aren't that many Atheists around.

Lately everything has been offensive to you.sheesh.

PJ_Soul

No it hasn't. That's bullshit. Examples please (there aren't any - if you come up with something I guarantee that I wasn't actually offended. If you're talking about the fuckability of Palin, I wasn't offended. It was a double-standard that I didn't like. Not the same). What, am I now an asshole for being bothered that I've been told I'm being an asshole when I'm not?

deadendp

PJ_Soul said:

deadendp said:

F Me In The Brain said:

PJ_Soul said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made.

What do you think SD is trying to do? Convert me? lol. What am I supposed to be refusing to believe? Show me something that gives me a reason to believe in God, and I'll believe in God. If you can't do that, no good point has been made. Again, the burden of proof is on the believers.

Agree to disagree on the highlighted point.
No, I know SD would not try to convert you. She is not that type of girl.

Of booster seats and whatnot . . . SD is not one to convert. I promise you.

rr165892 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)

The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.

A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

That is because the force is strong with Hedo.

That it is.

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

Thanks, guys

I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.

I was just kidding. I actually don't think I'm being an asshole at all. If anyone thinks I'm being an asshole, then I'd like to discuss that, since as far as I'm concerned, I am just expressing my opinions and being straightforward, and not attacking anyone or being rude or anything like that. Just because some people don't like what I have to say it doesn't suddenly mean I'm being an asshole.

I think it isn't necessarily asshole-ishness as it can come across as hard headed. There are professed non-believers on here having what could be construed as an attempt at constructive conversation that, across the believer/non-believer board, can be somewhat controversial. I speak not for others but I myself see that there is just so much (not just from you but from others as well) talk of "this is how it is" and where that is true for you, it isn't true for others. People do have faith. I have faith. I have no problem in being open about that. I do believe in God, but I understand that people don't. Does it make me a bad person because I do? No. I certainly have plenty of people here on the forum and out in the real world who would argue that I'm an okay chick. I have friends of many faiths. I've said that before. I guess that having a constructive conversation would be in hopes that we could at least respect each other for having different views. It doesn't mean that you have to have to subscribe to whatever it is that the person professes to believe in, but in the very least, know that it is what works for them. That doesn't make them wrong. That doesn't make them an idiot. It just makes them different.

But that is what I've been saying. I have NEVER said to anyone that they should all believe what I believe. I am just stating what I believe and why. An yet I am so often met with hostility and the idea that I am somehow expecting everyone to believe what I believe, which I actually have never even hinted at, let alone said outright. This is why I have an issue with the reaction here. It's actually offensive to me. And hardheaded? I don't get that either. I have a belief. How is standing strong with my belief hardheaded? What am I supposed to do? Just relent and say, "oh, well, maybe you're right" when I 100% don't believe that? I don't see people with faith saying to me "oh, maybe you're right" about God not existing. But I never see them getting called assholes or hardheaded.
And of course most people I know believe in God or a higher being. There really aren't that many Atheists around.

There are far more Atheists than you probably realize.

There just seems (and I admit that I could be wrong and apologies issued if so) that there isn't some attempt at conversion on your part that there it just seems that there isn't a whole lot of respect for those who have a difference in belief or non-belief. That is my take. Again, not saying that I'm right.

My point of hardheaded was not that you don't share my same belief, but that it seems that there isn't a mutual respect for your fellow man that you would like to have yourself. You find it offensive but you don't seem to be extending that same olive branch.

PJ_Soul

Are you kidding? I have never thought for a split second that I could convert a believer. They believe in God just as much as I believe in no God. I don't have respect for a belief in God and don't have a disrespect for those who hold that belief. I am quite neutral about it. I respect people who believe just as much as I respect those who don't on an individual level. I am able to respect people who might believe in something I don't respect. For crying out loud, my own parents believe in God and I love them more than anyone else on the face of the planet. The only thing that I have a problem with is how religion affects other people negatively through war, government, education, fraud, cultism, etc etc etc. What kind of olive branch am I supposed to be offering? Am I supposed to be pandering to you?

deadendp

PJ_Soul said:

Are you kidding? I have never thought for a split second that I could convert a believer. They believe in God just as much as I believe in no God. I don't have respect for a belief in God and don't have a disrespect for those who do. The only thing that I have a problem with is how religion affects people negatively. What kind of olive branch am I supposed to be offering? Am I supposed to be pandering to you?

I never fucking said that you were trying to convert.

Respect. That was all. Sheesh.

PJ_Soul

deadendp said:

PJ_Soul said:

Are you kidding? I have never thought for a split second that I could convert a believer. They believe in God just as much as I believe in no God. I don't have respect for a belief in God and don't have a disrespect for those who do. The only thing that I have a problem with is how religion affects people negatively. What kind of olive branch am I supposed to be offering? Am I supposed to be pandering to you?

I never fucking said that you were trying to convert.

Respect. That was all. Sheesh.

I added to my post.
One thing I don't respect right now is that I have been attacked for nothing other than expressing my own beliefs.
(and sorry, I misread the conversion part... although I do feel like some think that's what I'm doing for some reason).

rr165892

PJ_Soul said:

No it hasn't. That's bullshit. Examples please (there aren't any - if you come up with something I guarantee that I wasn't actually offended. If you're talking about the fuckability of Palin, I wasn't offended. It was a double-standard that I didn't like. Not the same). What, am I now an asshole for being bothered that I've been told I'm being an asshole when I'm not?

If you weren't offended then why bitch about a harmless little innocent comment.
And I don't think your an asshole at all.I think you have been kinda a hypocrite on a few issues of late,but nothing of a personal nature.And stop talking about palins animal magnetism.Its offensive to my feminist friends.

Empty Glass

Sooooo, the topic of religion has started some arguing. Who knew?

PJ_Soul

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

No it hasn't. That's bullshit. Examples please (there aren't any - if you come up with something I guarantee that I wasn't actually offended. If you're talking about the fuckability of Palin, I wasn't offended. It was a double-standard that I didn't like. Not the same). What, am I now an asshole for being bothered that I've been told I'm being an asshole when I'm not?

If you weren't offended then why bitch about a harmless little innocent comment.
And I don't think your an asshole at all.I think you have been kinda a hypocrite on a few issues of late,but nothing of a personal nature.And stop talking about palins animal magnetism.Its offensive to my feminist friends.

Just because I'm not offended it doesn't mean something isn't an issue that matters. I do not feel bad about talking about doube-standards held against women.
You just think I've been a hypocrite because you think that people can't pick their battles.

PJ_Soul

Empty Glass said:

Sooooo, the topic of religion has started some arguing. Who knew?

And it would all be good - it's controversial, and there is nothing wrong with that - but it got personal.

Empty Glass

PJ_Soul said:

Empty Glass said:

Sooooo, the topic of religion has started some arguing. Who knew?

And it would all be good - it's controversial, and there is nothing wrong with that - but it got personal.

Always does, always will

rr165892

PJ_Soul said:

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

No it hasn't. That's bullshit. Examples please (there aren't any - if you come up with something I guarantee that I wasn't actually offended. If you're talking about the fuckability of Palin, I wasn't offended. It was a double-standard that I didn't like. Not the same). What, am I now an asshole for being bothered that I've been told I'm being an asshole when I'm not?

If you weren't offended then why bitch about a harmless little innocent comment.
And I don't think your an asshole at all.I think you have been kinda a hypocrite on a few issues of late,but nothing of a personal nature.And stop talking about palins animal magnetism.Its offensive to my feminist friends.

Just because I'm not offended it doesn't mean something isn't an issue that matters. I do not feel bad about talking about doube-standards held against women.
You just think I've been a hypocrite because you think that people can't pick their battles.

what double standards? What did I say earlier that was a double standard or was degrading? Context is very important and should be factored in.

PJ_Soul

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

No it hasn't. That's bullshit. Examples please (there aren't any - if you come up with something I guarantee that I wasn't actually offended. If you're talking about the fuckability of Palin, I wasn't offended. It was a double-standard that I didn't like. Not the same). What, am I now an asshole for being bothered that I've been told I'm being an asshole when I'm not?

If you weren't offended then why bitch about a harmless little innocent comment.
And I don't think your an asshole at all.I think you have been kinda a hypocrite on a few issues of late,but nothing of a personal nature.And stop talking about palins animal magnetism.Its offensive to my feminist friends.

Just because I'm not offended it doesn't mean something isn't an issue that matters. I do not feel bad about talking about doube-standards held against women.
You just think I've been a hypocrite because you think that people can't pick their battles.

what double standards? What did I say earlier that was a double standard or was degrading? Context is very important and should be factored in.

Dude, totally different thread, and Kat shut down the conversation. I don't even remember what your own role was in that, if any. I honestly don't recall if you were the one who said anything! I was just talking generally. I'm certainly not holding anything against you either way because the conversation's over.

lolobugg

I just can't get over the word "fuckability"...
that needs to be added to the dictionary.

F Me In The Brain

PJSoul you actually typed yesterday that you were OK with being mean to people if they believed in a god.
(Paraphrasing - here is the actual quote:
"I don't care if it's mean or not. I don't think that living a lie is a positive thing. ")
I think that is a point that perhaps riled a few people. You believe something different from someone else and it is OK for you to be mean to them.

Sweet.

What does that make you, by the way? I know a word it would make a person:
Mean.
(Probably not the word you thought I was going to type?)