.

mickeyrat · January 2016

Empty Glass said:

hedonist said:
No one needs to prove shit.

Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.

Amen

(No pun intended)

This right here

F Me In The Brain · January 2016

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.

A philosopher, huh?

I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

PJ_Soul · January 2016

hedonist said:
No one needs to prove shit.

Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.

I hope you`re not suggesting that I`m being an asshole or trampling on others.... Not you Hedo, but I sometimes get the distinct impression that a lot of people really don`t even want to discuss this topic, and I don`t know why.

callen · January 2016

hedonist said:
No one needs to prove shit.

Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.

Wars are fought using religion. Politicians make policies to coddle the religious then promote wars. Churches don't pay taxes yet leaders are lapped in luxury. Many Americans donate to churches and get tax deduction. I'm okay being an asshole to maybe shortening it's reign on humans.

rr165892 · January 2016

F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.
A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

That is because the force is strong with Hedo.

PJ_Soul · January 2016

callen said:

hedonist said:
No one needs to prove shit.

Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Wars are fought using religion. Politicians make policies to coddle the religious then promote wars. Churches don't pay taxes yet leaders are lapped in luxury. Many Americans donate to churches and get tax deduction. I'm okay being an asshole to maybe shortening it's reign on humans.

I agree. Religion isn't just a "whatever man" concept. Religion effects every single one of us in very significant ways, and it is an important topic of discussion and debate IMO.

jeffbr · January 2016

hedonist said:
No one needs to prove shit.

Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.

Ultimately this is how I feel. Live and let live, believe (or not) and let believe (or not). Maybe we'll find out after our mortal existence who was "right". Maybe we'll just return to dust, and it's lights out.

F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.
A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.

100% agree with this sentiment, and Hedo's. Especially the part about not being an asshole. I just have a hard time restraining myself with the "prove god doesn't exist" argument.

F Me In The Brain · January 2016

np Jeff, you were not being an ahole at all.

PJ_Soul · January 2016

I guess I'm supposed to be the asshole here? If so, please explain how.

SD48277 · January 2016

PJ_Soul said:

SD48277 said:

PJ_Soul said:

SD48277 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mickeyrat said:
As an agnostic it is my position that both believers and non (read athiest) have the burden of proof for their position.
Why would anyone have the burden of proof for something that doesn't exist? Sorry, the burden of proof lies with the believers.

"Orange and purple dragons don't exist."

"Prove it!"

"Uhhhhh..... They don't exist."
Same thing could be said for people who believe in UFOs or possible life on other planets.....
Not the same at all. There are a lot of tangible things that people could present to suggest that UFOs or possible life on other planets exist or could exist. It doesn't mean people have to buy it (some or any of it), but there are feasible things to consider, which is not at all the case when it comes to God.
Some people of faith could say the same thing. Just because you, personally, do not buy it, does not mean that it is true for them....same goes for people who claim to have UFO experiences.

And callen, thank you for clarifying.
Yeah, I know. I`m not sure what you think I`m saying, but you seem to be making the assumption that I expect everyone to agree that I`m right, which is not at all the case (though I`m not surprised you`re assuming that - this is usually where this discussion goes for lack of anything else to say as a defense). However, I still maintain with absolutely surety that it`s utterly illogical and even a philosophical impossibility for people to prove the non-existence of something. The burden of proof must be with the believers alone.

Now you seem to be assuming something about me. I was simply responding to what you had posted.

PJ_Soul · January 2016

Now you seem to be assuming something about me assuming something that you assumed.

callen · January 2016

PJ_Soul said:
I guess I'm supposed to be the asshole here? If so, please explain how.

No it's me. And I wear label on this subject with pride.

PJ_Soul · January 2016

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:
I guess I'm supposed to be the asshole here? If so, please explain how.
No it's me.

Maybe we're both assholes.

PJ_Soul · January 2016

All this aside, I'm not sure how belief in God is supposed to factor in for gay people. I don't see the connection as far as belief goes. The only connection is the made up bullshit spewed by certain organized religions. These are the not the same thing at all.

dankind · January 2016

jeffbr said:

hedonist said:
No one needs to prove shit.

Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Ultimately this is how I feel. Live and let live, believe (or not) and let believe (or not). Maybe we'll find out after our mortal existence who was "right". Maybe we'll just return to dust, and it's lights out.
F Me In The Brain said:

jeffbr said:

F Me In The Brain said:
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.
A philosopher, huh? I hated that course.
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.
100% agree with this sentiment, and Hedo's. Especially the part about not being an asshole. I just have a hard time restraining myself with the "prove god doesn't exist" argument.

jeffbr, I'll put it to you this way:

rr165892 · January 2016

DK,I just ran the math."It says bring the troops home" what a great message.thank you

hedonist · January 2016

Thanks, guys

I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.

PJ_Soul · January 2016

hedonist said:
Thanks, guys

I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.

I was just kidding. I actually don't think I'm being an asshole at all. If anyone thinks I'm being an asshole, then I'd like to discuss that, since as far as I'm concerned, I am just expressing my opinions and being straightforward, and not attacking anyone or being rude or anything like that. Just because some people don't like what I have to say it doesn't suddenly mean I'm being an asshole.

hedonist · January 2016

Did a quick search as I'm expected to actually work while at work

"Driven by insecurity", "I believe in truth" (implying others' own truths are lies), among various other comments in this thread that do come off as belittling. Perhaps not intended as such, I don't know (callen aside, he practically begged for the Scarlet A!) but certainly how it comes off.

F Me In The Brain · January 2016

This is an all ages forum -- it is not OK to discuss someone actually being an asshole.
It is OK to mock others' beliefs...to make fun of people who died (and those expressing their grief)...to constantly bait people for one's own pleasure....to flag posts and go running to the mods....but never, ever tell someone how you truly feel about their behaviors by calling them a direct name if you want to retain posting privileges. I would have thought we all would have learned from Scott and Nart!

Sounds like we all seem to agree at this point about the point of this thread -- yes, you can choose to believe whatever you would like; and it makes no matter of your sexual preference as you do so.

.

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