Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made.
Would love to see any shred of evidence that would sway my beliefs. Funny your now bailing.
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made.
What do you think SD is trying to do? Convert me? lol. What am I supposed to be refusing to believe? Show me something that gives me a reason to believe in God, and I'll believe in God. If you can't do that, no good point has been made. Again, the burden of proof is on the believers.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Was not referencing you Callen, which is why I made my edit. (I realized it was unclear.) I am in agreement with MickeyRat though....both sides should have to prove. I see no evidence that completely eliminates any possibility of any gods...nor any evidence that confirms any possibility of any gods. It is what people choose to believe. (And again, I do not believe.)
As an agnostic it is my position that both believers and non (read athiest) have the burden of proof for their position.
Why would anyone have the burden of proof for something that doesn't exist? Sorry, the burden of proof lies with the believers.
"Orange and purple dragons don't exist."
"Prove it!"
"Uhhhhh..... They don't exist."
Same thing could be said for people who believe in UFOs or possible life on other planets.....
Not the same at all. There are a lot of tangible things that people could present to suggest that UFOs or possible life on other planets exist or could exist. It doesn't mean people have to buy it (some or any of it), but there are feasible things to consider, which is not at all the case when it comes to God.
Some people of faith could say the same thing. Just because you, personally, do not buy it, does not mean that it is true for them....same goes for people who claim to have UFO experiences.
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made.
What do you think SD is trying to do? Convert me? lol. What am I supposed to be refusing to believe? Show me something that gives me a reason to believe in God, and I'll believe in God. If you can't do that, no good point has been made. Again, the burden of proof is on the believers.
Agree to disagree on the highlighted point. No, I know SD would not try to convert you. She is not that type of girl.
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Amen
(No pun intended)
I've met Rob
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
As an agnostic it is my position that both believers and non (read athiest) have the burden of proof for their position.
Why would anyone have the burden of proof for something that doesn't exist? Sorry, the burden of proof lies with the believers.
"Orange and purple dragons don't exist."
"Prove it!"
"Uhhhhh..... They don't exist."
Same thing could be said for people who believe in UFOs or possible life on other planets.....
Not the same at all. There are a lot of tangible things that people could present to suggest that UFOs or possible life on other planets exist or could exist. It doesn't mean people have to buy it (some or any of it), but there are feasible things to consider, which is not at all the case when it comes to God.
Some people of faith could say the same thing. Just because you, personally, do not buy it, does not mean that it is true for them....same goes for people who claim to have UFO experiences.
And callen, thank you for clarifying.
Yeah, I know. I`m not sure what you think I`m saying, but you seem to be making the assumption that I expect everyone to agree that I`m right, which is not at all the case (though I`m not surprised you`re assuming that - this is usually where this discussion goes for lack of anything else to say as a defense). However, I still maintain with absolutely surety that it`s utterly illogical and even a philosophical impossibility for people to prove the non-existence of something. The burden of proof must be with the believers alone.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.
A philosopher, huh? I hated that course. It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way. Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever? What Hedo said covers it.
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
I hope you`re not suggesting that I`m being an asshole or trampling on others.... Not you Hedo, but I sometimes get the distinct impression that a lot of people really don`t even want to discuss this topic, and I don`t know why.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Wars are fought using religion. Politicians make policies to coddle the religious then promote wars. Churches don't pay taxes yet leaders are lapped in luxury. Many Americans donate to churches and get tax deduction. I'm okay being an asshole to maybe shortening it's reign on humans.
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.
A philosopher, huh? I hated that course. It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way. Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever? What Hedo said covers it.
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Wars are fought using religion. Politicians make policies to coddle the religious then promote wars. Churches don't pay taxes yet leaders are lapped in luxury. Many Americans donate to churches and get tax deduction. I'm okay being an asshole to maybe shortening it's reign on humans.
I agree. Religion isn't just a "whatever man" concept. Religion effects every single one of us in very significant ways, and it is an important topic of discussion and debate IMO.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Ultimately this is how I feel. Live and let live, believe (or not) and let believe (or not). Maybe we'll find out after our mortal existence who was "right". Maybe we'll just return to dust, and it's lights out.
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.
A philosopher, huh? I hated that course. It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way. Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever? What Hedo said covers it.
100% agree with this sentiment, and Hedo's. Especially the part about not being an asshole. I just have a hard time restraining myself with the "prove god doesn't exist" argument.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
As an agnostic it is my position that both believers and non (read athiest) have the burden of proof for their position.
Why would anyone have the burden of proof for something that doesn't exist? Sorry, the burden of proof lies with the believers.
"Orange and purple dragons don't exist."
"Prove it!"
"Uhhhhh..... They don't exist."
Same thing could be said for people who believe in UFOs or possible life on other planets.....
Not the same at all. There are a lot of tangible things that people could present to suggest that UFOs or possible life on other planets exist or could exist. It doesn't mean people have to buy it (some or any of it), but there are feasible things to consider, which is not at all the case when it comes to God.
Some people of faith could say the same thing. Just because you, personally, do not buy it, does not mean that it is true for them....same goes for people who claim to have UFO experiences.
And callen, thank you for clarifying.
Yeah, I know. I`m not sure what you think I`m saying, but you seem to be making the assumption that I expect everyone to agree that I`m right, which is not at all the case (though I`m not surprised you`re assuming that - this is usually where this discussion goes for lack of anything else to say as a defense). However, I still maintain with absolutely surety that it`s utterly illogical and even a philosophical impossibility for people to prove the non-existence of something. The burden of proof must be with the believers alone.
Now you seem to be assuming something about me. I was simply responding to what you had posted.
All this aside, I'm not sure how belief in God is supposed to factor in for gay people. I don't see the connection as far as belief goes. The only connection is the made up bullshit spewed by certain organized religions. These are the not the same thing at all.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Ultimately this is how I feel. Live and let live, believe (or not) and let believe (or not). Maybe we'll find out after our mortal existence who was "right". Maybe we'll just return to dust, and it's lights out.
Give it up SD. Not going to make a point to someone who refuses to believe that anything they believe could be wrong. I think your point is perfectly made. (About UFOs vs gods)
The problem with your position, and SD's is that it is a logical fallacy. As PJ Soul said, you can't prove something doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person saying that something DOES exist. If it exists, it must be provable. If it doesn't exist, there isn't anything there to demonstrate it's non-existence except that there is no evidence of its existence.
A philosopher, huh? I hated that course. It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way. Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever? What Hedo said covers it.
100% agree with this sentiment, and Hedo's. Especially the part about not being an asshole. I just have a hard time restraining myself with the "prove god doesn't exist" argument.
I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.
I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.
I was just kidding. I actually don't think I'm being an asshole at all. If anyone thinks I'm being an asshole, then I'd like to discuss that, since as far as I'm concerned, I am just expressing my opinions and being straightforward, and not attacking anyone or being rude or anything like that. Just because some people don't like what I have to say it doesn't suddenly mean I'm being an asshole.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Did a quick search as I'm expected to actually work while at work
"Driven by insecurity", "I believe in truth" (implying others' own truths are lies), among various other comments in this thread that do come off as belittling. Perhaps not intended as such, I don't know (callen aside, he practically begged for the Scarlet A!) but certainly how it comes off.
This is an all ages forum -- it is not OK to discuss someone actually being an asshole. It is OK to mock others' beliefs...to make fun of people who died (and those expressing their grief)...to constantly bait people for one's own pleasure....to flag posts and go running to the mods....but never, ever tell someone how you truly feel about their behaviors by calling them a direct name if you want to retain posting privileges. I would have thought we all would have learned from Scott and Nart!
Sounds like we all seem to agree at this point about the point of this thread -- yes, you can choose to believe whatever you would like; and it makes no matter of your sexual preference as you do so.
Comments
I am in agreement with MickeyRat though....both sides should have to prove. I see no evidence that completely eliminates any possibility of any gods...nor any evidence that confirms any possibility of any gods. It is what people choose to believe.
(And again, I do not believe.)
And callen, thank you for clarifying.
No, I know SD would not try to convert you. She is not that type of girl.
Believe what you want, let me do the same - or at least try to find my own way - and take care to not trample on others or be an asshole in the process.
Amen
(No pun intended)
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
"Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It looks like a hole in my argument if you spin it around that way.
Was not what I set out to argue --- just don't be mean to others because you think they are wrong. Who cares if someone is gay, chooses to believe in a god (or gods), attend church or whatever?
What Hedo said covers it.
I just don't get the need for haughtiness or being condescending or dismissive on either side, on any side. Great if someone owns being an asshole about it, but it doesn't make being an asshole about it alright.
"Driven by insecurity", "I believe in truth" (implying others' own truths are lies), among various other comments in this thread that do come off as belittling. Perhaps not intended as such, I don't know (callen aside, he practically begged for the Scarlet A!) but certainly how it comes off.
It is OK to mock others' beliefs...to make fun of people who died (and those expressing their grief)...to constantly bait people for one's own pleasure....to flag posts and go running to the mods....but never, ever tell someone how you truly feel about their behaviors by calling them a direct name if you want to retain posting privileges. I would have thought we all would have learned from Scott and Nart!
Sounds like we all seem to agree at this point about the point of this thread -- yes, you can choose to believe whatever you would like; and it makes no matter of your sexual preference as you do so.