Star Wars Episode 7 Discussion with SPOILERS

rgambs

Why can't Rey just be a nobody like Anakin was???
I don't see her being Luke's daughter, it doesn't make much sense to me that she was left behind as a child, before Kylo's betrayal and Luke's exile.
When she touches the lightsaber she has an intuition, not a lost memory.
I also don't agree that Kylo should have whooped her ass, she is very strong in the force and very strong in will, Kylo's training is incomplete, and he was injured.
I look forward to increasingly better ligjtsaber duels, these ones were clumsy and slow like Luke and Vader in ep 6.
Someone here was acting like Luke and Vader dueled well, but the choreography was terrible, slow, clumsy...not badass like someone with superhuman powers should be fighting.

rgambs

halloweenhead95 said:

eldarion75 said:

Leave episodes 1,2 and 3 until after you see 4,5 and 6.
The prequels are just terrible but better seen after the original trilogy.

Yeah, a lot of people told me exactly that
Will watch it in that order!

The best order is 4,5,2,3,6 and don't watch 1 at all...just YouTube the Darth maul firght scenes

The reasoning behind this order is too complicated to explain, but it makes excellent narrative sense. The prequels become an extended flashback and it really works well.

rgambs

ckravitz said:

pickupyourwill said:

Thank you Thoughts_Arrive and Pearl34Jam for your input. It really is just a matter of taste isn't it? Leia and Rey would have to be more of the girl next door type anyway, than super model and one-dimensional looking, because they have so many skills, royal jedi blood, and personality--they can do it all. Cheers to those kick-ass female characters!!

I think an argument could be made that Ridley gave the best performance ever in a Star Wars movie.

Absolutely, right up there with Ewan-Kenobi.

JTH

rgambs said:

The best order is 4,5,2,3,6 and don't watch 1 at all...just YouTube the Darth maul firght scenes

The reasoning behind this order is too complicated to explain, but it makes excellent narrative sense. The prequels become an extended flashback and it really works well.

It really does seem like the prequels could have started off with Episode II. Most of the important details of Episode I (Qui Gon finds Anakin, Palpatine's rise to power, etc.) could have been explained in a few flashback sequences and the opening crawl. It wouldn't feel very "Star Wars" to have a bunch of flashbacks, but then again, the prequels don't feel very "Star Wars" anyway.

rgambs

2-feign-reluctance said:

JimmyV said:

I don't buy the theory that Rey is a Skywalker or a Solo because I don't believe any of our original trilogy heroes would abandon a child on Jakku. I also don't buy the theory that she is a Kinobi because it would require a drastic departure in character from anything we have seen from Obi-Wan. A secret love? God I hope not.

So who is Rey? Well, consider this. The first thing we see in the Force vision montage is Bespin. Why? She wasn't even alive then. But that was when Luke lost his light saber and also when he lost...his hand. Whoever found the light saber also likely found the hand.

Why is that important? Because this is a galaxy in which cloning exists. There is even an old EU story where Luke's hand is recovered and he is cloned. I think they are riffing on that. Rey was created with Skywalker DNA.

After that...who knows? Maybe she was planted at Luke's Jedi academy. Maybe she was stolen from whoever created her and abandoned on Jakku. Maybe...speculating like this is a lot of fun.

Abrams said this new trilogy is the story of the Skywalker family. Wouldn't make any sense if Rey isn't a Skywalker.

There's already 3 Skywalkers in the series, why does it have to be 4?? Kylo is facing the same crises that Vader did with the Emperor, light breaking through the dark. Rey doesn't have to be a Skywalker, of course it's possible but I think it will be corny and unbelievable if it's the case.
Abandoned on Jakku and memory wiped?? That's cheesy.

JTH

Thoughts_Arrive said:

After Vader severed his arm in Ep5 he gets it fixed and it looks like a normal hand, now it is skeletal?

Remember, in Jedi, Luke gets shot in the hand and some of the fake skin gets burned off so he wore a glove to cover the damage. Over the course of 30+ years, the hole in the skin probably just kept getting bigger and bigger -- kind of like a hole in a pair of jeans -- until it became more trouble than it was worth and he just let it go.

Thoughts_Arrive

I am seeing it for the third time in a few hours time!
I have been listening to the soundtrack so I look forward to matching the scenes with the music I like.

Thoughts_Arrive

JTH said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

After Vader severed his arm in Ep5 he gets it fixed and it looks like a normal hand, now it is skeletal?

Remember, in Jedi, Luke gets shot in the hand and some of the fake skin gets burned off so he wore a glove to cover the damage. Over the course of 30+ years, the hole in the skin probably just kept getting bigger and bigger -- kind of like a hole in a pair of jeans -- until it became more trouble than it was worth and he just let it go.

Ah yes. I don't get why he couldn't get it fixed.

DewieCox

A little heavy handed with the nerd-out moments in the first half or so, but really good otherwise.

A lot of the camera angles and movements felt a lot like the LOTR trilogy to me, which is really amazing.

The sound effects were pretty awesome too, really natural sounding....of course the score is epic.

JK_Livin

Thoughts_Arrive said:

JTH said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

After Vader severed his arm in Ep5 he gets it fixed and it looks like a normal hand, now it is skeletal?

Remember, in Jedi, Luke gets shot in the hand and some of the fake skin gets burned off so he wore a glove to cover the damage. Over the course of 30+ years, the hole in the skin probably just kept getting bigger and bigger -- kind of like a hole in a pair of jeans -- until it became more trouble than it was worth and he just let it go.

Ah yes. I don't get why he couldn't get it fixed.

If he's been on that island for 20+ years, it has probably deteriorated over that time without proper care available.

rgambs

JK_Livin said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

JTH said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

After Vader severed his arm in Ep5 he gets it fixed and it looks like a normal hand, now it is skeletal?

Remember, in Jedi, Luke gets shot in the hand and some of the fake skin gets burned off so he wore a glove to cover the damage. Over the course of 30+ years, the hole in the skin probably just kept getting bigger and bigger -- kind of like a hole in a pair of jeans -- until it became more trouble than it was worth and he just let it go.

Ah yes. I don't get why he couldn't get it fixed.

If he's been on that island for 20+ years, it has probably deteriorated over that time without proper care available.

20+ years seems improbable. That would mean that Ben Solo overthrew Luke's Jedi efforts when he was barely a teenager...at best.

pickupyourwill

rgambs said:

Why can't Rey just be a nobody like Anakin was???
I don't see her being Luke's daughter, it doesn't make much sense to me that she was left behind as a child, before Kylo's betrayal and Luke's exile.
When she touches the lightsaber she has an intuition, not a lost memory.
I also don't agree that Kylo should have whooped her ass, she is very strong in the force and very strong in will, Kylo's training is incomplete, and he was injured.
I look forward to increasingly better ligjtsaber duels, these ones were clumsy and slow like Luke and Vader in ep 6.
Someone here was acting like Luke and Vader dueled well, but the choreography was terrible, slow, clumsy...not badass like someone with superhuman powers should be fighting.

I agree with your first sentence about why can't Rey just be a nobody like Anakin was. As I recall, Anakin's mom was like the Virgin Mary in a way because she was just suddenly pregnant, without the intercourse. So Rey could have come into the world the same way--another chosen one like Anakin could have been.

I think all the actors and actresses in those first 3, McGregor, Portman, Christensen, etc., all did a great job--still don't understand why it got bad reviews back then?

JK_Livin

rgambs said:

JK_Livin said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

JTH said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

After Vader severed his arm in Ep5 he gets it fixed and it looks like a normal hand, now it is skeletal?

Remember, in Jedi, Luke gets shot in the hand and some of the fake skin gets burned off so he wore a glove to cover the damage. Over the course of 30+ years, the hole in the skin probably just kept getting bigger and bigger -- kind of like a hole in a pair of jeans -- until it became more trouble than it was worth and he just let it go.

Ah yes. I don't get why he couldn't get it fixed.

If he's been on that island for 20+ years, it has probably deteriorated over that time without proper care available.

20+ years seems improbable. That would mean that Ben Solo overthrew Luke's Jedi efforts when he was barely a teenager...at best.

Then 10+ years. Whatever the time frame, he didn't have access to proper care for his bionic hand and fake skin wrap was the point.

rgambs

JK_Livin said:

rgambs said:

JK_Livin said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

JTH said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

After Vader severed his arm in Ep5 he gets it fixed and it looks like a normal hand, now it is skeletal?

Remember, in Jedi, Luke gets shot in the hand and some of the fake skin gets burned off so he wore a glove to cover the damage. Over the course of 30+ years, the hole in the skin probably just kept getting bigger and bigger -- kind of like a hole in a pair of jeans -- until it became more trouble than it was worth and he just let it go.

Ah yes. I don't get why he couldn't get it fixed.

If he's been on that island for 20+ years, it has probably deteriorated over that time without proper care available.

20+ years seems improbable. That would mean that Ben Solo overthrew Luke's Jedi efforts when he was barely a teenager...at best.

Then 10+ years. Whatever the time frame, he didn't have access to proper care for his bionic hand and fake skin wrap was the point.

Yeah, sorry I agree with your point, I am late to the party and I am questioning some of the theories and assumptions here. The biggest one is the images she sees when she touches the saber, people here seem to see it as a jumble of lost memories when it seemed much more like a vision of intuition, past, present, and future. We know that Jedi can use the force to see/feel things beyond their reach in time and space, why do some think it is a lost memory?
It seems to me people are trying to make the events fit a narrative rather than constructing their narrative from events.
I also didn't see a tear in Luke's eye, I saw a glimmer.
Kylo Ren had water in his eyes as well during interrogation, but it looked like a product of her resistance and not some memory or secret knowledge.

Merkin Baller

pickupyourwill said:

rgambs said:

Why can't Rey just be a nobody like Anakin was???
I don't see her being Luke's daughter, it doesn't make much sense to me that she was left behind as a child, before Kylo's betrayal and Luke's exile.
When she touches the lightsaber she has an intuition, not a lost memory.
I also don't agree that Kylo should have whooped her ass, she is very strong in the force and very strong in will, Kylo's training is incomplete, and he was injured.
I look forward to increasingly better ligjtsaber duels, these ones were clumsy and slow like Luke and Vader in ep 6.
Someone here was acting like Luke and Vader dueled well, but the choreography was terrible, slow, clumsy...not badass like someone with superhuman powers should be fighting.

I agree with your first sentence about why can't Rey just be a nobody like Anakin was. As I recall, Anakin's mom was like the Virgin Mary in a way because she was just suddenly pregnant, without the intercourse. So Rey could have come into the world the same way--another chosen one like Anakin could have been.

I think all the actors and actresses in those first 3, McGregor, Portman, Christensen, etc., all did a great job--still don't understand why it got bad reviews back then?

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion..... I thought McGregor & Portman's performances were weak at best.

I think Hayden Chritiansen is pretty much unwatchable in every film I've seen him in. I don't see the talent, but again...... To each, his or her own.

2-feign-reluctance

This is what Hayden's Anakin reminds me of....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEqJ-s9V45s

polaris_x

Thoughts_Arrive said:

An interesting theory as to why Rey is not Luke's daughter:

"The most glaring is Chewbacca’s behavior at the end of “The Force Awakens.” His best friend — and the man he owed a life debt to — is dead. Yes, time passed between the end of the Starkiller Base battle and Rey leaving to find Luke, but still. What would cause the Wookiee to go with this scavenger? One answer would be the life debt transferred from father to daughter. There is also Han’s reaction to hearing Rey’s name for the first time, as if that was a name he hadn’t heard in a long time. Finally, there is Kylo Ren’s suspiciously violent reaction when a minion tells him girl helped Finn and BB-8 escape from Jakku."

Read more: http://www.hitfix.com/harpy/star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-trying-a-too-hard-to-make-us-think-reys-dad-is-redacted

chewie goes because she's taking the milenium falcon ... he's linked to the ship ...

Thoughts_Arrive

I wonder what Kylo means when he says to Han "he was weak and foolish like his father so I destroyed him".

JTH

polaris_x said:

chewie goes because she's taking the milenium falcon ... he's linked to the ship ...

Also, with Han gone, Luke might just be Chewie's closest friend.

As far as the acting in the prequels, George Lucas managed to take a slew of Oscar-caliber actors and make them look, at best, average. Ian McDiarmid & Ewan McGregor (interesting -- both are Scottish. I never noticed that til just now.) probably had the strongest performances overall but they definitely had some moments that were cringe-worthy.

Seriously, look at the talent on that roster. It should be impossible to get dull performances out of them: Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, Sam Jackson, Christopher Lee, and even Keira Knightley & Terence Stamp in minor roles.

polaris_x

JTH said:

polaris_x said:

chewie goes because she's taking the milenium falcon ... he's linked to the ship ...

Also, with Han gone, Luke might just be Chewie's closest friend.

As far as the acting in the prequels, George Lucas managed to take a slew of Oscar-caliber actors and make them look, at best, average. Ian McDiarmid & Ewan McGregor (interesting -- both are Scottish. I never noticed that til just now.) probably had the strongest performances overall but they definitely had some moments that were cringe-worthy.

Seriously, look at the talent on that roster. It should be impossible to get dull performances out of them: Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, Sam Jackson, Christopher Lee, and even Keira Knightley & Terence Stamp in minor roles.

If you look at those people you listed - they've all made bad movies ... also, they aren't the most versatile actors ...

i would say ewan mcgregor held his own in the prequels ... and the guy who played palpatine ... liam neeson was good in his role but he was only in the 1 movie ...