I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?
I think that rehabilitation is totally possible. People can turn their lives around, and I think there are ways to evaluate that their rehabilitation is real or not. This all depends on the crime of course. I don't think pedophiles can be rehabilitated, so I support court ordered chemical castration. I obviously don't think that psychopaths can be rehabilitated, so if they have committed violent crimes they should stay in prison forever. But yeah, rehabilitation of people without those kinds of anti-social personality disorders is possible and I support giving people a second chance if they reasonably show that they have changed and are no longer a danger to society. I just don't think for one second that Kelly Ellard is rehabilitated. I think she's a sociopath.
I mostly agree with you, but not the part about court-ordered chemical castration. The way our legal system is set up in Canada it can not force anyone to take medication, and frankly I'm not convinced it's a good thing to go down the road of allowing our legal system to make medical decisions. Plus it's also not a straightforward or foolproof situation; it's pretty fiddly, actually, with multiple different medication options and varying rates of success.
Thirty, want to offer an opinion on Glowatski's situation? You have been generally anti-rehabilitation, particularly for serious crimes.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?
I think that rehabilitation is totally possible. People can turn their lives around, and I think there are ways to evaluate that their rehabilitation is real or not. This all depends on the crime of course. I don't think pedophiles can be rehabilitated, so I support court ordered chemical castration. I obviously don't think that psychopaths can be rehabilitated, so if they have committed violent crimes they should stay in prison forever. But yeah, rehabilitation of people without those kinds of anti-social personality disorders is possible and I support giving people a second chance if they reasonably show that they have changed and are no longer a danger to society. I just don't think for one second that Kelly Ellard is rehabilitated. I think she's a sociopath.
I mostly agree with you, but not the part about court-ordered chemical castration. The way our legal system is set up in Canada it can not force anyone to take medication, and frankly I'm not convinced it's a good thing to go down the road of allowing our legal system to make medical decisions. Plus it's also not a straightforward or foolproof situation; it's pretty fiddly, actually, with multiple different medication options and varying rates of success.
Thirty, want to offer an opinion on Glowatski's situation? You have been generally anti-rehabilitation, particularly for serious crimes.
I think it's entirely possible to have laws such as enforced chemical castration (monitored forever of course, to deal with the "fiddly" factor you mention) and still be able to maintain reasonable limits when it comes to the legal system making medical decisions. As is the case with things such as medical treatment being withheld from children and things like that. I think we just need to make sure that the legal system has judges who we can trust to make good, common sense decisions that prevent abuse.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Pumping someone with chemicals to castrate them is ridiculous, what if at a later date they are proven innocent? Even though it is reversible (apparently}, the procedure can leaving negative effects to the body, not to mention lasting mental illness effects...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Pumping someone with chemicals to castrate them is ridiculous, what if at a later date they are proven innocent? Even though it is reversible (apparently}, the procedure can leaving negative effects to the body, not to mention lasting mental illness effects...
I tend to weigh negatives against positives, likelihood against unlikelihood, . In this case, I think the positives and unlikelihoods outweigh the possible and very unlikely negatives. If we were arguing the death penalty, I would agree with you. Also, I would support giving the pedophile a choice. Stay in prison, or accept chemical castration. As far as what if he were innocent... that is a case by case thing, but how many wrongly accused people are or have been in prison for sexually abusing children? I'm not talking about 'some student said the teacher molested her' cases, or those awful cases where there is a nasty divorce and the kid is coached by a parent. I'm talking about habitual child abusers... most of whom are actually upfront about their crimes once caught.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'm still a no on the idea of the criminal justice system being able to force people to take medication. It's not within their area of expertise. I deal regularly with the legal system (in a professional capacity, of course ) and don't have confidence that they would get this right.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Capital Punishment not okay in case of a miscarriage of justice
Chemical Castration okay even in the case of a miscarriage of justice because the positives outweigh the negatives, unless you are innocent, wonder if the innocent would feel that it was positive for society...
And how the fuck am I to know how many prisoners in Canada are innocent, I just assumed that why we abolished the death penalty, just in case of wrongful conviction, probably the same reason we no longer allow corporal punishment, or chemical castration just in case of a miscarriage...hahahahahahah.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Capital Punishment not okay in case of a miscarriage of justice
Chemical Castration okay even in the case of a miscarriage of justice because the positives outweigh the negatives, unless you are innocent, wonder if the innocent would feel that it was positive for society...
And how the fuck am I to know how many prisoners in Canada are innocent, I just assumed that why we abolished the death penalty, just in case of wrongful conviction, probably the same reason we no longer allow corporal punishment, or chemical castration just in case of a miscarriage...hahahahahahah.
Lol. News flash: the death penalty is irreversible. Chemical castration is not. That is why I specifically put the "chemical" in front of the "castration". That is a very important distinction. These are not comparable things at all. Plus, taking a life vs taking an uncontrollable sex drive. Hmm. Not exactly equal, lol.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?
I think that rehabilitation is totally possible. People can turn their lives around, and I think there are ways to evaluate that their rehabilitation is real or not. This all depends on the crime of course. I don't think pedophiles can be rehabilitated, so I support court ordered chemical castration. I obviously don't think that psychopaths can be rehabilitated, so if they have committed violent crimes they should stay in prison forever. But yeah, rehabilitation of people without those kinds of anti-social personality disorders is possible and I support giving people a second chance if they reasonably show that they have changed and are no longer a danger to society. I just don't think for one second that Kelly Ellard is rehabilitated. I think she's a sociopath.
I mostly agree with you, but not the part about court-ordered chemical castration. The way our legal system is set up in Canada it can not force anyone to take medication, and frankly I'm not convinced it's a good thing to go down the road of allowing our legal system to make medical decisions. Plus it's also not a straightforward or foolproof situation; it's pretty fiddly, actually, with multiple different medication options and varying rates of success.
Thirty, want to offer an opinion on Glowatski's situation? You have been generally anti-rehabilitation, particularly for serious crimes.
I'm still a no on the idea of the criminal justice system being able to force people to take medication. It's not within their area of expertise. I deal regularly with the legal system (in a professional capacity, of course ) and don't have confidence that they would get this right.
But the system already does that. It still prevents people from turning to doctor assisted suicide in a lot of cases, and it has been known to force parents to provide children with medical treatments against their will. It also recently convicted parents for not providing care to a child because it was their will to use alternative treatments. I do not personally think that the slippery slope theory has to be invoked when it comes to this issue. I feel that it can maintain a logical level on a case-by-case basis.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?
I think that rehabilitation is totally possible. People can turn their lives around, and I think there are ways to evaluate that their rehabilitation is real or not. This all depends on the crime of course. I don't think pedophiles can be rehabilitated, so I support court ordered chemical castration. I obviously don't think that psychopaths can be rehabilitated, so if they have committed violent crimes they should stay in prison forever. But yeah, rehabilitation of people without those kinds of anti-social personality disorders is possible and I support giving people a second chance if they reasonably show that they have changed and are no longer a danger to society. I just don't think for one second that Kelly Ellard is rehabilitated. I think she's a sociopath.
I mostly agree with you, but not the part about court-ordered chemical castration. The way our legal system is set up in Canada it can not force anyone to take medication, and frankly I'm not convinced it's a good thing to go down the road of allowing our legal system to make medical decisions. Plus it's also not a straightforward or foolproof situation; it's pretty fiddly, actually, with multiple different medication options and varying rates of success.
Thirty, want to offer an opinion on Glowatski's situation? You have been generally anti-rehabilitation, particularly for serious crimes.
I did offer a perspective a few posts ago.
Sorry - somehow I totally missed that in the series of posts.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
When you talked about boring politics vs the US circus it reminded me of this from the article: "Irredeemably dull by reputation, less brash and bellicose than America, Canada has long seemed to outsiders to be a citadel of decency, tolerance and good sense. Charles Dickens, bewildered by a visit to America in 1842, found relief in Canada, where he saw “public feeling and private enterprise in a sound and wholesome state; nothing of flush or fever in its system.” Modern Canada’s social safety net is stronger than America’s; its gun-control laws saner. Today, in its lonely defence of liberal values, Canada seems downright heroic. In an age of seductive extremes, it remains reassuringly level-headed."
I'm a Canada fan. I've had people who have known me for years ask if I was an ex-pat from Canada, because I tend to point north when asked about what I'd like to see in our country (and I always sing your anthem louder than mine at sporting events, lol). At some point I'm going to make my 2.5 hour drive north permanent. I've about had it with the US. Sooner rather than later depending on our election results!
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
When you talked about boring politics vs the US circus it reminded me of this from the article: "Irredeemably dull by reputation, less brash and bellicose than America, Canada has long seemed to outsiders to be a citadel of decency, tolerance and good sense. Charles Dickens, bewildered by a visit to America in 1842, found relief in Canada, where he saw “public feeling and private enterprise in a sound and wholesome state; nothing of flush or fever in its system.” Modern Canada’s social safety net is stronger than America’s; its gun-control laws saner. Today, in its lonely defence of liberal values, Canada seems downright heroic. In an age of seductive extremes, it remains reassuringly level-headed."
I'm a Canada fan. I've had people who have known me for years ask if I was an ex-pat from Canada, because I tend to point north when asked about what I'd like to see in our country (and I always sing your anthem louder than mine at sporting events, lol). At some point I'm going to make my 2.5 hour drive north permanent. I've about had it with the US. Sooner rather than later depending on our election results!
I think level headed is a great way to describe Canada. in a world full of extremes, Canada remains calm and doesn't freak out.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Just giving him a hearing is is ridiculous in itself ...
Yeah. I agree he'll never get out, but it is awful that the families have to deal with this process. I do kind of wish Canada had a life without parole sentence, reserved only for the most extreme cases, so that the families of the victims of the worst crimes didn't have to readdress the whole thing periodically. I mean, to think that Clifford Olson got parole hearings, and that Willy Pickton will too, is pretty outrageous. And that day-parole would even be an option for Bernardo... I mean, why bother? Seems like a huge waste of resources. Although this is not anywhere near as shocking or maddening than the fact that that fucking Karla Homolka got barely more than a slap on the wrist and is now remarried and has kids and shit. The authorities REALLY royally fucked up as far as she's concerned (and they know it). The whole story about her and how she got off so light is absolutely infuriating.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I agree he's never getting out, its the families the should not have to go through these proceedings. I would have no problem with life throw away the key...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I agree he's never getting out, its the families the should not have to go through these proceedings. I would have no problem with life throw away the key...
They could, of course, not attend and request that they not even be notified of such proceedings. Still not fair, but just sayin'.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I agree he's never getting out, its the families the should not have to go through these proceedings. I would have no problem with life throw away the key...
They could, of course, not attend and request that they not even be notified of such proceedings. Still not fair, but just sayin'.
They could, of course, not have to attend because the asshole is rotting in the ground after he received a sentence of death like he deserved. Very fair given his offences... just sayin'.
These people are heavily invested. Their children were taken from them in the most horrific manner imaginable.
I agree he's never getting out, its the families the should not have to go through these proceedings. I would have no problem with life throw away the key...
They could, of course, not attend and request that they not even be notified of such proceedings. Still not fair, but just sayin'.
I guess they could, but then I guess the government could change the criminal code for extremely heinous crimes and make life mandatory no parole, no faint hope clause, nothing ... 24 hours a day in a 3 by 6 cell ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I agree he's never getting out, its the families the should not have to go through these proceedings. I would have no problem with life throw away the key...
They could, of course, not attend and request that they not even be notified of such proceedings. Still not fair, but just sayin'.
They could, of course, not have to attend because the asshole is rotting in the ground after he received a sentence of death like he deserved. Very fair given his offences... just sayin'.
These people are heavily invested. Their children were taken from them in the most horrific manner imaginable.
I have no problem with capital punishment in cases like this, monsters who video tape their crimes deserve a special section in the criminal code. There is no doubt he did it, it was taped, evidence is clear. The part I never liked about locking guys like this up is you know he relives his crimes in his sick and twisted mind...and as always happens, the victims are made to possibly suffer through a parole board hearing that never should take place...ridiculous.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
Thirty, want to offer an opinion on Glowatski's situation? You have been generally anti-rehabilitation, particularly for serious crimes.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Capital Punishment not okay in case of a miscarriage of justice
Chemical Castration okay even in the case of a miscarriage of justice because the positives outweigh the negatives, unless you are innocent, wonder if the innocent would feel that it was positive for society...
And how the fuck am I to know how many prisoners in Canada are innocent, I just assumed that why we abolished the death penalty, just in case of wrongful conviction, probably the same reason we no longer allow corporal punishment, or chemical castration just in case of a miscarriage...hahahahahahah.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Agree.
Trudeau is going to sign the EU trade deal that Harper negotiated.
Boring.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
"Irredeemably dull by reputation, less brash and bellicose than America, Canada has long seemed to outsiders to be a citadel of decency, tolerance and good sense. Charles Dickens, bewildered by a visit to America in 1842, found relief in Canada, where he saw “public feeling and private enterprise in a sound and wholesome state; nothing of flush or fever in its system.” Modern Canada’s social safety net is stronger than America’s; its gun-control laws saner. Today, in its lonely defence of liberal values, Canada seems downright heroic. In an age of seductive extremes, it remains reassuringly level-headed."
I'm a Canada fan. I've had people who have known me for years ask if I was an ex-pat from Canada, because I tend to point north when asked about what I'd like to see in our country (and I always sing your anthem louder than mine at sporting events, lol). At some point I'm going to make my 2.5 hour drive north permanent. I've about had it with the US. Sooner rather than later depending on our election results!
-EV 8/14/93
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/paul-bernardos-day-parole-hearing-scheduled-for-march-families-of-his-teen-murder-victims-gutted
Just giving him a hearing is is ridiculous in itself ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
These people are heavily invested. Their children were taken from them in the most horrific manner imaginable.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying it is uncommon.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
-EV 8/14/93
Sometimes you just have to admit out loud and be proud where you are from.
Not all the time like the Americans